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Embirch and Flarelm - Part 5 - Movepool Submissions

Discussion in 'CAP Pre-Evolution Workshop' started by DHR-107, Nov 10, 2012.

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  1. DHR-107

    DHR-107 Robot from the Future
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcher
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    We're moving on to movepool submissions! I won this last time out with the Syclar submissions. Pyroak, the evolution of Embirch and Flarelm, already has a movepool; it can be found here. Best bet would be to work exactly from this framework and scale things down a little.

    As this needs to be put here in all good CaP formality... WE CANNOT EDIT PYROAK’S MOVEPOOL IN ANY WAY. Remember, we are still 4th gen too, so no crazy ideas trying to slip some 5th gen moves in under the radar. It goes entirely against what this pre-evolution project stands for (here) by conflicting with the historically accurate section. We absolutely cannot edit, add to, or delete from Pyroak's movepool. You can be as creative as you like, in theory, but stay within those parameters. Thank you. You can change around some moves, maybe add one or two from TMs etc, but please remain as consistent as possible.

    Also understand that Embirch into Flarelm and Flarelm into Pyroak currently have no evolution methods. I am requesting that all movepool submitters provide a means of evolution as well in their submission. This will be pretty important to me. Please be sensible with evolution methods. Nothing crazy like Wednesdays after 4pm on Route 220 or something.

    If you need some help on your movepool, feel free to come consult us in #cap on IRC; we'd be glad to help. If you don't have any idea what movepool creation is all about, I recommend you sit in the back seat on this one and only provide suggestions when applicable. Thanks for your understanding.

    This will go on for however long people choose to participate, but try to submit your stuff within forty eight hours. May be extended depending on some discussions. I will be putting up the Art thread in the morning!


    What we have so far:

    Names: Embirch and Flarelm
    Type: Fire/Grass & Fire/Grass
    Abilities: Reckless / Leaf Guard & Rock Head / Battle Armor
    Stats: Embirch: 60 / 40 / 55 / 65 / 40 / 60 & Flarelm: 90 / 50 / 95 / 75 / 70 / 40

    Sprites:

    [​IMG] & [​IMG]
  2. Delta Nite

    Delta Nite

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2009
    Messages:
    91
    I'm not submiting any movepools, but I have an evolution method that I'd like to share with you guys. Feel free to use it if wanted.

    In gen IV, we got the full Porygon line, which is up to date the only family to evolve twice by trading attached with some item. I propose Pyroak line to be the first one to evolve by leveling up with certain moves known twice. Something like:
    Embirch -> Level up with Bullet Seed -> Flarelm -> Level up with Iron Defense.
    The first evolution would be to give emphasys on the more developed cannons that Flarelm has. Similarly, Iron Defense would do it's thing by demonstrating how Pyroak's armor gets harder upon evolving.
    IDK, just throwing my two cents.
  3. jas61292

    jas61292 used substitute
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
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    Final Submission
    Embirch Level Up (Evolves level 24) (open)

    -- Sweet Scent
    -- Bullet Seed
    05 Growth
    09 Ember
    13 Leech Seed
    17 Flame Wheel
    21 Giga Drain
    25 Fire Spin
    29 Petal Dance
    33 Double-Edge
    37 Synthesis
    40 Lava Plume
    44 Zap Cannon
    Flarelm Level Up (Evolves level 38) (open)

    -- Sweet Scent
    -- Bullet Seed
    05 Growth
    09 Ember
    13 Leech Seed
    17 Flame Wheel
    21 Giga Drain
    28 Fire Spin
    36 Petal Dance
    40 Iron Defense
    44 Synthesis
    48 Lava Plume
    52 Zap Cannon
    For level up moves, I really did not change that much. However, as I'm sure you will immediately notice, Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz are gone. As much as I'm sure people love the idea of abusing these moves with the prevos, if you look at how they are in Pyroak's movepool, or look back to the original Pyroak movepool thread, you can see that these are obviously designed to be Heart Scale moves. As such, the pre-evolutions should not have access to these moves. Other than that though, I did not change any of the moves that Flarelm gets via level up. These guys don't change all that majorly in form, so there is no real reason for any of them to have something the others do not. However, I did feel that having Rock Head/Reckless as abilities without any moves to use with them would be odd. Now, I know they get one via Move Tutor, but as gen4 Pokemon this would mean going through all of DP with useless abilities, as it was not until Platinum that they would get this move. Due to this, I decided to put Double-Edge in Embirch's level up pool over Iron Defense. Since it lacks the defensive nature of its evolutions, it seemed to me this was an appropriate replacement. Other than this, however, all three Pokemon are very similar, and as such, the only other changes are the level at which they are learned.

    When it comes to the specifics of the levels, and for that matter the evolution methods, I noticed that Pyroak started off with the pattern of learning a move every 4 levels, but then this changed around level 21, after which it goes up by 7 and then 8 before setting into a pattern of every 6 levels again. I thought that just before and after these changes would be the ideal places for evolution. In addition, since Embirch would evolve before the pattern changes, I thought it made sense to just keep the moves after that point on the original pattern of every 4 levels. For Flarelm, since Pyroak settled back into a constant pattern after evolution, I thought it made sense to go back to every 4 levels after for Flarelm, so that it would still get moves earlier. This also had the convenient effect of making it learn Zap Cannon 8 levels after Embirch and 8 before Pyroak.

    Embirch TM/HMs (open)

    TM05 Roar
    TM06 Toxic
    TM09 Bullet Seed
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM16 Light Screen
    TM17 Protect
    TM19 Giga Drain
    TM20 Safeguard
    TM21 Frustration
    TM22 SolarBeam
    TM23 Iron Tail
    TM27 Return
    TM32 Double Team
    TM35 Flamethrower
    TM39 Rock Tomb
    TM42 Facade
    TM43 Secret Power
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM50 Overheat
    TM53 Energy Ball
    TM58 Endure
    TM61 Will-o-Wisp
    TM70 Flash
    TM75 Swords Dance
    TM76 Stealth Rock
    TM80 Rock Slide
    TM82 Sleep Talk
    TM83 Natural Gift
    TM86 Grass Knot
    TM87 Swagger
    TM90 Substitute
    HM04 Strength
    HM06 Rock Smash
    HM08 Rock Climb
    Flarelm TM/HMs (open)

    TM05 Roar
    TM06 Toxic
    TM09 Bullet Seed
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM16 Light Screen
    TM17 Protect
    TM19 Giga Drain
    TM20 Safeguard
    TM21 Frustration
    TM22 SolarBeam
    TM23 Iron Tail
    TM27 Return
    TM32 Double Team
    TM35 Flamethrower
    TM39 Rock Tomb
    TM42 Facade
    TM43 Secret Power
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM50 Overheat
    TM53 Energy Ball
    TM58 Endure
    TM61 Will-o-Wisp
    TM70 Flash
    TM75 Swords Dance
    TM76 Stealth Rock
    TM80 Rock Slide
    TM82 Sleep Talk
    TM83 Natural Gift
    TM86 Grass Knot
    TM87 Swagger
    TM90 Substitute
    HM04 Strength
    HM06 Rock Smash
    HM08 Rock Climb
    Probably the first thing you will notice here is that the two TM pools are exactly the same. Not a single difference. And that is for a good reason. Look around at three stage Pokemon. Except in cases of major change between first and second evolution, the movepools of the first two stages are usually identical. I can't really see any TM or HM move that Flarelm would be able to use that Embirch could not.

    Of course, there are a few that I did remove from both, but only 3. Those three being Hyper Beam, Giga Impact and Earthquake. The former two are well known for being final stage only moves, and the latter one being a move only really known by final evolution when it comes to Fire and Grass types specifically, with the exception of those who are also Ground type. Other than these however, there is very little that Pyroak can do that these guys shouldn't be able to do.

    Embirch Tutor Moves (open)

    Block
    Counter
    Double-Edge
    Headbutt
    Heat Wave
    Iron Defense
    Low Kick
    Mimic
    Mud-Slap
    Seed Bomb
    Snore
    Synthesis
    Worry Seed
    Flarelm Tutor Moves (open)

    Block
    Counter
    Double-Edge
    Headbutt
    Heat Wave
    Iron Defense
    Low Kick
    Mimic
    Mud-Slap
    Seed Bomb
    Snore
    Synthesis
    Worry Seed
    And once again you will see here only a few changes from Pyroak, with identical movepools for both NFE Pokemon. The few moves that were removed were Ancientpower and Earth Power, for reasons nearly identical to those for Earthquake. To put it simply, Fire and Grass NFEs don't get these moves, except in situations where their secondary types have an association with the move. Now, you might wonder why I kept Iron Defense for Embirch despite taking it out of the level up pool. This is because, while it is not part of its inherant nature, I still envision it having the capability to use it. You don't need to be inherently defensive of have a hard shell to use it (Slugma or Sewaddle, for instance), however, only Pokemon with a hard defensvie form get it via level up.

    Egg moves (open)

    Aromatherapy
    Counter
    Dragonbreath
    Grasswhistle
    Psybeam
    Revenge
    Sand Tomb
    Water Sport
    And of course, all of these are the same as Pyroak.


    Overall, there were only a few changes, but I think this does a good job of making Embirch and Flarelm feel like realistic Pokemon.
  4. Menshay

    Menshay

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
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    Final submission

    Evolution: Embirch -(level 21)-> Flarelm -(level 42)-> Pyroak

    Embirch

    Level-up (open)
    0 Sweet Scent
    0 Bullet Seed
    5 Growth
    9 Ember
    13 Leech Seed
    17 Flame Wheel
    21 Giga Drain; EVOLUTION
    26 Fire Spin
    31 Petal Dance
    36 Synthesis
    41 Lava Plume
    46 Solarbeam

    Removed Iron Defense, since Embirch lacks its evolutions' armour.
    Removed Flare Blitz and Wood Hammer since they're level 0 moves for Pyroak and they obviously don't work as level 0 moves for a stage 1. Wood Hammer doesn't really work for Embirch anyway, Flare Blitz could have but I don't think there's any precedent for a late move turning into a level 0 move upon evolution.
    Removed Zap Cannon due to Embirch's lack of fully developed cannons, replaced with a more generic-flavoured Solarbeam.

    Tutor (open)
    AncientPower
    Counter
    Double-Edge
    Earth Power
    Headbutt
    Heat Wave
    Low Kick
    Mimic
    Mud-Slap
    Seed Bomb
    Snore
    Synthesis
    Worry Seed

    Removed Iron Defense.

    TM/HM (open)
    TM05 Roar
    TM06 Toxic
    TM09 Bullet Seed
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM16 Light Screen
    TM17 Protect
    TM19 Giga Drain
    TM20 Safeguard
    TM21 Frustration
    TM22 SolarBeam
    TM23 Iron Tail
    TM27 Return
    TM32 Double Team
    TM35 Flamethrower
    TM38 Fire Blast
    TM39 Rock Tomb
    TM42 Facade
    TM43 Secret Power
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM50 Overheat
    TM53 Energy Ball
    TM58 Endure
    TM61 Will-O-Wisp
    TM70 Flash
    TM75 Swords Dance
    TM76 Stealth Rock
    TM80 Rock Slide
    TM82 Sleep Talk
    TM83 Natural Gift
    TM86 Grass Knot
    TM87 Swagger
    TM90 Substitute
    HM04 Strength
    HM06 Rock Smash
    HM08 Rock Climb

    Removed Hyper Beam, Giga Impact, Earthquake (too small) and Roar (not really menacing enough, stuff like Shinx and Vulpix get it but in their case it feels more appropriate flavour-wise).
    Not sure about Strength, but since Charmander and Treecko get it it shouldn't be an issue.

    Egg moves (open)
    Aromatherapy
    Counter
    DragonBreath
    GrassWhistle
    Psybeam
    Revenge
    Sand Tomb
    Water Sport

    Same as Pyroak.

    Flarelm

    Level-up (open)
    0 Sweet Scent
    0 Bullet Seed
    5 Growth
    9 Ember
    13 Leech Seed
    17 Flame Wheel
    21 Giga Drain
    28 Fire Spin
    36 Petal Dance
    42 EVOLUTION
    44 Synthesis
    52 Lava Plume
    58 Solarbeam

    Same as Embirch but at later levels. I envision Flarelm learning Iron Defense just after evolving (see Flaaffy and Thunderpunch).

    Tutor (open)
    AncientPower
    Block
    Counter
    Double-Edge
    Earth Power
    Headbutt
    Heat Wave
    Iron Defense
    Low Kick
    Mimic
    Mud-Slap
    Seed Bomb
    Snore
    Synthesis
    Worry Seed

    Iron Defense is however a tutor move, again, see Flaffy and Thuderpunch.

    TM/HM (open)
    TM05 Roar
    TM06 Toxic
    TM09 Bullet Seed
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM16 Light Screen
    TM17 Protect
    TM19 Giga Drain
    TM20 Safeguard
    TM21 Frustration
    TM22 SolarBeam
    TM23 Iron Tail
    TM26 Earthquake
    TM27 Return
    TM32 Double Team
    TM35 Flamethrower
    TM38 Fire Blast
    TM39 Rock Tomb
    TM42 Facade
    TM43 Secret Power
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM50 Overheat
    TM53 Energy Ball
    TM58 Endure
    TM61 Will-O-Wisp
    TM70 Flash
    TM75 Swords Dance
    TM76 Stealth Rock
    TM80 Rock Slide
    TM82 Sleep Talk
    TM83 Natural Gift
    TM86 Grass Knot
    TM87 Swagger
    TM90 Substitute
    HM04 Strength
    HM06 Rock Smash
    HM08 Rock Climb

    Again, no Giga Impact and Hyper Beam, but I kept Earthquake (compare with Poliwhirl) and Roar (compare with Quilava and Croconaw).

    Egg moves (open)
    Aromatherapy
    Counter
    DragonBreath
    GrassWhistle
    Psybeam
    Revenge
    Sand Tomb
    Water Sport

    Same as Pyroak (do we really need to say this explicitly every time?)
  5. nyttyn

    nyttyn Neko Miko Reimu, ai shiteru
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    Messages:
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    Here's my shot at a movepool.


    Evolution: Embirch --->(Level 20) Flarelm --->(Fire Stone) Pyroak

    Reasoning: Standard earlymid-ish game stage 2 evolution for grass types, and a fire stone evolution because A. We need more of those, and B. Do you see how Pyroak's canons are fully lit up? And how Flarelm's aren't? I'd imagine a Fire Stone would give it the firepower required to awaken the latent potential within and fully evolve.


    Level Up

    Embirch
    Show Hide

    0 Ember
    0 Sweet Scent
    7 Giga Drain
    10 Growth
    13 Leech Seed
    17 Flame Wheel
    20 Fire Spin
    23 Petal Dance
    26 Synthesis

    Subtracting all the moves that Flarelm didn't seem advanced enough to use (Wood Hammer/Flare Blitz) or didn't have the armor required (Iron Defense)

    Flarelm
    Show Hide

    0 Sweet Scent
    0 Ember
    5 Growth
    9 Bullet Seed
    13 Leech Seed
    17 Flame Wheel
    21 Giga Drain
    25 Wood Hammer
    29 Flare Blitz
    33 Fire Spin
    37 Petal Dance
    41 Iron Defense
    45 Synthesis
    49 Lava Plume

    Minus Zap Canon, since it doesn't seem to be advanced enough just yet to pull that one off.

    Tutor

    Embirch
    Show Hide
    Block
    Counter
    Headbutt
    Low Kick
    Mimic
    Mud-Slap
    Snore
    Synthesis
    Worry Seed

    Similar reasoning to levelup. Anything that Embirch didn't seem strong enough to, have the sufficent armor to, or didn't have advanced enough canons to use. Also, minus Ancientpower and Earth Power, since very few Grass/Fire NFEs get it.

    Flarelm
    Show Hide
    Block
    Counter
    Double-Edge
    Headbutt
    Heat Wave
    Iron Defense
    Low Kick
    Mimic
    Mud-Slap
    Seed Bomb
    Snore
    Synthesis
    Worry Seed

    Minus Ancientpower and Earth Power, since very few Grass/Fire NFEs get it.



    Egg

    Show Hide

    Aromatherapy
    Counter
    DragonBreath
    GrassWhistle
    Psybeam
    Revenge
    Sand Tomb
    Water Sport

    I don't think we can change this for obvious reasons

    TMs

    Embrich
    Show Hide

    TMs
    TM05 Roar
    TM06 Toxic
    TM09 Bullet Seed
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM19 Giga Drain
    TM20 Safeguard
    TM21 Frustration
    TM27 Return
    TM32 Double Team
    TM35 Flamethrower
    TM42 Facade
    TM43 Secret Power
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM58 Endure
    TM61 Will-O-Wisp
    TM70 Flash
    TM80 Rock Slide
    TM82 Sleep Talk
    TM83 Natural Gift
    TM86 Grass Knot
    TM87 Swagger
    TM90 Substitute


    Same reasoning as before. Minus hyper beam and giga impact because NFEs rarely, if ever, get them.

    Flarelm
    Show Hide

    TM05 Roar
    TM06 Toxic
    TM09 Bullet Seed
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM16 Light Screen
    TM17 Protect
    TM19 Giga Drain
    TM20 Safeguard
    TM21 Frustration
    TM22 SolarBeam
    TM27 Return
    TM32 Double Team
    TM35 Flamethrower
    TM38 Fire Blast
    TM39 Rock Tomb
    TM42 Facade
    TM43 Secret Power
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM53 Energy Ball
    TM58 Endure
    TM61 Will-O-Wisp
    TM70 Flash
    TM75 Swords Dance
    TM76 Stealth Rock
    TM80 Rock Slide
    TM82 Sleep Talk
    TM83 Natural Gift
    TM86 Grass Knot
    TM87 Swagger
    TM90 Substitute


    Minus Earthquake and Overheat since I don't think Flarelm is quite strong enough yet to use them. Minus hyper beam and giga impact because NFEs rarely, if ever, get them.
    HMs

    Embirch

    Show Hide
    HM08 Rock Climb

    Minus Strength and Rock Smash since it didn't seem strong enough to use them.

    Flarelm
    Show Hide

    HM04 Strength
    HM06 Rock Smash
    HM08 Rock Climb

    Removed nothing.
  6. Eagle4

    Eagle4

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,625
    Nyttyn, this has nothing to do with your movepool, but it's really bugging me. You spell "Embirch" like "Embrich".
    I'm a perfectionist.
  7. DHR-107

    DHR-107 Robot from the Future
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcher
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    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    I'm going to extend this by another 24 hours just to see if we get some more entries! Please if you have any interest at all post a submission!
  8. RavensNation

    RavensNation

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    106
    Embirch

    Level-up moves. (open)

    Level 00 - Bullet Seed, Sweet Scent
    Level 04 - Growth
    Level 08 - Ember
    Level 12 - Leech Seed
    Level 16 - Flame Wheel
    Level 20 - Giga Drain
    Level 24 - Evolves into Flarelm
    Level 28 - Natural Gift
    Level 32 - Grass Knot
    Level 36 - Energy Ball
    Level 40 - SolarBeam
    Level 44 - Synthesis

    I don't see Embirch in the same vein as Flarelm and Pyroak so, after evolving, its moves vary greatly, aside from Petal Dance and Synthesis. There's obviously no Wood Hammer or Flare Blitz.
    TM/HM moves. (open)

    TM05 - Roar
    TM06 - Toxic
    TM10 - Hidden Power
    TM11 - Sunny Day
    TM17 - Protect
    TM19 - Giga Drain
    TM20 - Safeguard
    TM21 - Frustration
    TM22 - SolarBeam
    TM23 - Iron Tail
    TM27 - Return
    TM32 - Double Team
    TM35 - Flamethrower
    TM38 - Fire Blast
    TM39 - Rock Tomb
    TM42 - Facade
    TM43 - Secret Power
    TM44 - Rest
    TM45 - Attract
    TM53 - Energy Ball
    TM58 - Endure
    TM61 - Will-O-Wisp
    TM70 - Flash
    TM75 - Swords Dance
    TM76 - Stealth Rock
    TM80 - Rock Slide
    TM82 - Sleep Talk
    TM83 - Natural Gift
    TM86 - Grass Knot
    TM87 - Swagger
    TM90 - Substitute

    Very basic. Removed Hyper Beam, Giga Impact, and Earthquake, as those are all moves that are generally reserved specifically from fully evolved Pokémon and Ground- or Rock-type Pokémon. Also removed are Light Screen, Overheat, and all three HMs. Light Screen because it doesn't have armor and I see Light Screen as an "armor"-type move. Overheat should be fairly obvious, although I don't know if that means I should also remove Flamethrower and Fire Blast... No HMs because I can't see cute little Embirch using any of those moves.
    Egg moves. (open)

    Aromatherapy
    Counter
    DragonBreath
    GrassWhistle
    Psybeam
    Revenge
    Sand Tomb
    Water Sport

    All same.
    Move Tutor moves. (open)

    AncientPower
    Block
    Counter
    Double-Edge
    Headbutt
    Low Kick
    Mimic
    Mud-Slap
    Seed Bomb
    Snore
    Synthesis
    Worry Seed

    No Heat Wave for about the same reason as no Overheat (again, I don't know whether to remove all 4 moves... Maybe I'll just get rid of all special Fire-type moves, save Ember). No Iron Defense because it's another "armor"-type move. Earth Power, same reason as Earthquake.

    EDIT: Won't have time to finish. :'[
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