Embirch and Flarelm - Part 5 - Movepool Submissions

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DHR-107

Robot from the Future
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#1
We're moving on to movepool submissions! I won this last time out with the Syclar submissions. Pyroak, the evolution of Embirch and Flarelm, already has a movepool; it can be found here. Best bet would be to work exactly from this framework and scale things down a little.

As this needs to be put here in all good CaP formality... WE CANNOT EDIT PYROAK’S MOVEPOOL IN ANY WAY. Remember, we are still 4th gen too, so no crazy ideas trying to slip some 5th gen moves in under the radar. It goes entirely against what this pre-evolution project stands for (here) by conflicting with the historically accurate section. We absolutely cannot edit, add to, or delete from Pyroak's movepool. You can be as creative as you like, in theory, but stay within those parameters. Thank you. You can change around some moves, maybe add one or two from TMs etc, but please remain as consistent as possible.

Also understand that Embirch into Flarelm and Flarelm into Pyroak currently have no evolution methods. I am requesting that all movepool submitters provide a means of evolution as well in their submission. This will be pretty important to me. Please be sensible with evolution methods. Nothing crazy like Wednesdays after 4pm on Route 220 or something.

If you need some help on your movepool, feel free to come consult us in #cap on IRC; we'd be glad to help. If you don't have any idea what movepool creation is all about, I recommend you sit in the back seat on this one and only provide suggestions when applicable. Thanks for your understanding.

This will go on for however long people choose to participate, but try to submit your stuff within forty eight hours. May be extended depending on some discussions. I will be putting up the Art thread in the morning!


What we have so far:

Names: Embirch and Flarelm
Type: Fire/Grass & Fire/Grass
Abilities: Reckless / Leaf Guard & Rock Head / Battle Armor
Stats: Embirch: 60 / 40 / 55 / 65 / 40 / 60 & Flarelm: 90 / 50 / 95 / 75 / 70 / 40

Sprites:

&
 
#2
I'm not submiting any movepools, but I have an evolution method that I'd like to share with you guys. Feel free to use it if wanted.

In gen IV, we got the full Porygon line, which is up to date the only family to evolve twice by trading attached with some item. I propose Pyroak line to be the first one to evolve by leveling up with certain moves known twice. Something like:
Embirch -> Level up with Bullet Seed -> Flarelm -> Level up with Iron Defense.
The first evolution would be to give emphasys on the more developed cannons that Flarelm has. Similarly, Iron Defense would do it's thing by demonstrating how Pyroak's armor gets harder upon evolving.
IDK, just throwing my two cents.
 

jas61292

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Moderator
#3
Final Submission
-- Sweet Scent
-- Bullet Seed
05 Growth
09 Ember
13 Leech Seed
17 Flame Wheel
21 Giga Drain
25 Fire Spin
29 Petal Dance
33 Double-Edge
37 Synthesis
40 Lava Plume
44 Zap Cannon
-- Sweet Scent
-- Bullet Seed
05 Growth
09 Ember
13 Leech Seed
17 Flame Wheel
21 Giga Drain
28 Fire Spin
36 Petal Dance
40 Iron Defense
44 Synthesis
48 Lava Plume
52 Zap Cannon
For level up moves, I really did not change that much. However, as I'm sure you will immediately notice, Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz are gone. As much as I'm sure people love the idea of abusing these moves with the prevos, if you look at how they are in Pyroak's movepool, or look back to the original Pyroak movepool thread, you can see that these are obviously designed to be Heart Scale moves. As such, the pre-evolutions should not have access to these moves. Other than that though, I did not change any of the moves that Flarelm gets via level up. These guys don't change all that majorly in form, so there is no real reason for any of them to have something the others do not. However, I did feel that having Rock Head/Reckless as abilities without any moves to use with them would be odd. Now, I know they get one via Move Tutor, but as gen4 Pokemon this would mean going through all of DP with useless abilities, as it was not until Platinum that they would get this move. Due to this, I decided to put Double-Edge in Embirch's level up pool over Iron Defense. Since it lacks the defensive nature of its evolutions, it seemed to me this was an appropriate replacement. Other than this, however, all three Pokemon are very similar, and as such, the only other changes are the level at which they are learned.

When it comes to the specifics of the levels, and for that matter the evolution methods, I noticed that Pyroak started off with the pattern of learning a move every 4 levels, but then this changed around level 21, after which it goes up by 7 and then 8 before setting into a pattern of every 6 levels again. I thought that just before and after these changes would be the ideal places for evolution. In addition, since Embirch would evolve before the pattern changes, I thought it made sense to just keep the moves after that point on the original pattern of every 4 levels. For Flarelm, since Pyroak settled back into a constant pattern after evolution, I thought it made sense to go back to every 4 levels after for Flarelm, so that it would still get moves earlier. This also had the convenient effect of making it learn Zap Cannon 8 levels after Embirch and 8 before Pyroak.

TM05 Roar
TM06 Toxic
TM09 Bullet Seed
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM16 Light Screen
TM17 Protect
TM19 Giga Drain
TM20 Safeguard
TM21 Frustration
TM22 SolarBeam
TM23 Iron Tail
TM27 Return
TM32 Double Team
TM35 Flamethrower
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM42 Facade
TM43 Secret Power
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM50 Overheat
TM53 Energy Ball
TM58 Endure
TM61 Will-o-Wisp
TM70 Flash
TM75 Swords Dance
TM76 Stealth Rock
TM80 Rock Slide
TM82 Sleep Talk
TM83 Natural Gift
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM90 Substitute
HM04 Strength
HM06 Rock Smash
HM08 Rock Climb
TM05 Roar
TM06 Toxic
TM09 Bullet Seed
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM16 Light Screen
TM17 Protect
TM19 Giga Drain
TM20 Safeguard
TM21 Frustration
TM22 SolarBeam
TM23 Iron Tail
TM27 Return
TM32 Double Team
TM35 Flamethrower
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM42 Facade
TM43 Secret Power
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM50 Overheat
TM53 Energy Ball
TM58 Endure
TM61 Will-o-Wisp
TM70 Flash
TM75 Swords Dance
TM76 Stealth Rock
TM80 Rock Slide
TM82 Sleep Talk
TM83 Natural Gift
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM90 Substitute
HM04 Strength
HM06 Rock Smash
HM08 Rock Climb
Probably the first thing you will notice here is that the two TM pools are exactly the same. Not a single difference. And that is for a good reason. Look around at three stage Pokemon. Except in cases of major change between first and second evolution, the movepools of the first two stages are usually identical. I can't really see any TM or HM move that Flarelm would be able to use that Embirch could not.

Of course, there are a few that I did remove from both, but only 3. Those three being Hyper Beam, Giga Impact and Earthquake. The former two are well known for being final stage only moves, and the latter one being a move only really known by final evolution when it comes to Fire and Grass types specifically, with the exception of those who are also Ground type. Other than these however, there is very little that Pyroak can do that these guys shouldn't be able to do.

Block
Counter
Double-Edge
Headbutt
Heat Wave
Iron Defense
Low Kick
Mimic
Mud-Slap
Seed Bomb
Snore
Synthesis
Worry Seed
Block
Counter
Double-Edge
Headbutt
Heat Wave
Iron Defense
Low Kick
Mimic
Mud-Slap
Seed Bomb
Snore
Synthesis
Worry Seed
And once again you will see here only a few changes from Pyroak, with identical movepools for both NFE Pokemon. The few moves that were removed were Ancientpower and Earth Power, for reasons nearly identical to those for Earthquake. To put it simply, Fire and Grass NFEs don't get these moves, except in situations where their secondary types have an association with the move. Now, you might wonder why I kept Iron Defense for Embirch despite taking it out of the level up pool. This is because, while it is not part of its inherant nature, I still envision it having the capability to use it. You don't need to be inherently defensive of have a hard shell to use it (Slugma or Sewaddle, for instance), however, only Pokemon with a hard defensvie form get it via level up.

Aromatherapy
Counter
Dragonbreath
Grasswhistle
Psybeam
Revenge
Sand Tomb
Water Sport
And of course, all of these are the same as Pyroak.


Overall, there were only a few changes, but I think this does a good job of making Embirch and Flarelm feel like realistic Pokemon.
 
#4
Final submission

Evolution: Embirch -(level 21)-> Flarelm -(level 42)-> Pyroak

Embirch

0 Sweet Scent
0 Bullet Seed
5 Growth
9 Ember
13 Leech Seed
17 Flame Wheel
21 Giga Drain; EVOLUTION
26 Fire Spin
31 Petal Dance
36 Synthesis
41 Lava Plume
46 Solarbeam

Removed Iron Defense, since Embirch lacks its evolutions' armour.
Removed Flare Blitz and Wood Hammer since they're level 0 moves for Pyroak and they obviously don't work as level 0 moves for a stage 1. Wood Hammer doesn't really work for Embirch anyway, Flare Blitz could have but I don't think there's any precedent for a late move turning into a level 0 move upon evolution.
Removed Zap Cannon due to Embirch's lack of fully developed cannons, replaced with a more generic-flavoured Solarbeam.

AncientPower
Counter
Double-Edge
Earth Power
Headbutt
Heat Wave
Low Kick
Mimic
Mud-Slap
Seed Bomb
Snore
Synthesis
Worry Seed

Removed Iron Defense.

TM05 Roar
TM06 Toxic
TM09 Bullet Seed
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM16 Light Screen
TM17 Protect
TM19 Giga Drain
TM20 Safeguard
TM21 Frustration
TM22 SolarBeam
TM23 Iron Tail
TM27 Return
TM32 Double Team
TM35 Flamethrower
TM38 Fire Blast
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM42 Facade
TM43 Secret Power
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM50 Overheat
TM53 Energy Ball
TM58 Endure
TM61 Will-O-Wisp
TM70 Flash
TM75 Swords Dance
TM76 Stealth Rock
TM80 Rock Slide
TM82 Sleep Talk
TM83 Natural Gift
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM90 Substitute
HM04 Strength
HM06 Rock Smash
HM08 Rock Climb

Removed Hyper Beam, Giga Impact, Earthquake (too small) and Roar (not really menacing enough, stuff like Shinx and Vulpix get it but in their case it feels more appropriate flavour-wise).
Not sure about Strength, but since Charmander and Treecko get it it shouldn't be an issue.

Aromatherapy
Counter
DragonBreath
GrassWhistle
Psybeam
Revenge
Sand Tomb
Water Sport

Same as Pyroak.

Flarelm

0 Sweet Scent
0 Bullet Seed
5 Growth
9 Ember
13 Leech Seed
17 Flame Wheel
21 Giga Drain
28 Fire Spin
36 Petal Dance
42 EVOLUTION
44 Synthesis
52 Lava Plume
58 Solarbeam

Same as Embirch but at later levels. I envision Flarelm learning Iron Defense just after evolving (see Flaaffy and Thunderpunch).

AncientPower
Block
Counter
Double-Edge
Earth Power
Headbutt
Heat Wave
Iron Defense
Low Kick
Mimic
Mud-Slap
Seed Bomb
Snore
Synthesis
Worry Seed

Iron Defense is however a tutor move, again, see Flaffy and Thuderpunch.

TM05 Roar
TM06 Toxic
TM09 Bullet Seed
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM16 Light Screen
TM17 Protect
TM19 Giga Drain
TM20 Safeguard
TM21 Frustration
TM22 SolarBeam
TM23 Iron Tail
TM26 Earthquake
TM27 Return
TM32 Double Team
TM35 Flamethrower
TM38 Fire Blast
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM42 Facade
TM43 Secret Power
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM50 Overheat
TM53 Energy Ball
TM58 Endure
TM61 Will-O-Wisp
TM70 Flash
TM75 Swords Dance
TM76 Stealth Rock
TM80 Rock Slide
TM82 Sleep Talk
TM83 Natural Gift
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM90 Substitute
HM04 Strength
HM06 Rock Smash
HM08 Rock Climb

Again, no Giga Impact and Hyper Beam, but I kept Earthquake (compare with Poliwhirl) and Roar (compare with Quilava and Croconaw).

Aromatherapy
Counter
DragonBreath
GrassWhistle
Psybeam
Revenge
Sand Tomb
Water Sport

Same as Pyroak (do we really need to say this explicitly every time?)
 

nyttyn

Even ghosts stray from the path of righteousness
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#5
Here's my shot at a movepool.


Evolution: Embirch --->(Level 20) Flarelm --->(Fire Stone) Pyroak

Reasoning: Standard earlymid-ish game stage 2 evolution for grass types, and a fire stone evolution because A. We need more of those, and B. Do you see how Pyroak's canons are fully lit up? And how Flarelm's aren't? I'd imagine a Fire Stone would give it the firepower required to awaken the latent potential within and fully evolve.


Level Up

Embirch
0 Ember
0 Sweet Scent
7 Giga Drain
10 Growth
13 Leech Seed
17 Flame Wheel
20 Fire Spin
23 Petal Dance
26 Synthesis

Subtracting all the moves that Flarelm didn't seem advanced enough to use (Wood Hammer/Flare Blitz) or didn't have the armor required (Iron Defense)

Flarelm
0 Sweet Scent
0 Ember
5 Growth
9 Bullet Seed
13 Leech Seed
17 Flame Wheel
21 Giga Drain
25 Wood Hammer
29 Flare Blitz
33 Fire Spin
37 Petal Dance
41 Iron Defense
45 Synthesis
49 Lava Plume

Minus Zap Canon, since it doesn't seem to be advanced enough just yet to pull that one off.

Tutor

Embirch
Block
Counter
Headbutt
Low Kick
Mimic
Mud-Slap
Snore
Synthesis
Worry Seed

Similar reasoning to levelup. Anything that Embirch didn't seem strong enough to, have the sufficent armor to, or didn't have advanced enough canons to use. Also, minus Ancientpower and Earth Power, since very few Grass/Fire NFEs get it.

Flarelm
Block
Counter
Double-Edge
Headbutt
Heat Wave
Iron Defense
Low Kick
Mimic
Mud-Slap
Seed Bomb
Snore
Synthesis
Worry Seed

Minus Ancientpower and Earth Power, since very few Grass/Fire NFEs get it.



Egg

Aromatherapy
Counter
DragonBreath
GrassWhistle
Psybeam
Revenge
Sand Tomb
Water Sport

I don't think we can change this for obvious reasons

TMs

Embrich
TMs
TM05 Roar
TM06 Toxic
TM09 Bullet Seed
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM19 Giga Drain
TM20 Safeguard
TM21 Frustration
TM27 Return
TM32 Double Team
TM35 Flamethrower
TM42 Facade
TM43 Secret Power
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM58 Endure
TM61 Will-O-Wisp
TM70 Flash
TM80 Rock Slide
TM82 Sleep Talk
TM83 Natural Gift
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM90 Substitute


Same reasoning as before. Minus hyper beam and giga impact because NFEs rarely, if ever, get them.

Flarelm
TM05 Roar
TM06 Toxic
TM09 Bullet Seed
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM16 Light Screen
TM17 Protect
TM19 Giga Drain
TM20 Safeguard
TM21 Frustration
TM22 SolarBeam
TM27 Return
TM32 Double Team
TM35 Flamethrower
TM38 Fire Blast
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM42 Facade
TM43 Secret Power
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM53 Energy Ball
TM58 Endure
TM61 Will-O-Wisp
TM70 Flash
TM75 Swords Dance
TM76 Stealth Rock
TM80 Rock Slide
TM82 Sleep Talk
TM83 Natural Gift
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM90 Substitute


Minus Earthquake and Overheat since I don't think Flarelm is quite strong enough yet to use them. Minus hyper beam and giga impact because NFEs rarely, if ever, get them.
HMs

Embirch

HM08 Rock Climb

Minus Strength and Rock Smash since it didn't seem strong enough to use them.

Flarelm
HM04 Strength
HM06 Rock Smash
HM08 Rock Climb

Removed nothing.
 
#6
Nyttyn, this has nothing to do with your movepool, but it's really bugging me. You spell "Embirch" like "Embrich".
I'm a perfectionist.
 

DHR-107

Robot from the Future
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributor
Orange Islands
#7
I'm going to extend this by another 24 hours just to see if we get some more entries! Please if you have any interest at all post a submission!
 
#8
Embirch

Level 00 - Bullet Seed, Sweet Scent
Level 04 - Growth
Level 08 - Ember
Level 12 - Leech Seed
Level 16 - Flame Wheel
Level 20 - Giga Drain
Level 24 - Evolves into Flarelm
Level 28 - Natural Gift
Level 32 - Grass Knot
Level 36 - Energy Ball
Level 40 - SolarBeam
Level 44 - Synthesis

I don't see Embirch in the same vein as Flarelm and Pyroak so, after evolving, its moves vary greatly, aside from Petal Dance and Synthesis. There's obviously no Wood Hammer or Flare Blitz.
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM17 - Protect
TM19 - Giga Drain
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM22 - SolarBeam
TM23 - Iron Tail
TM27 - Return
TM32 - Double Team
TM35 - Flamethrower
TM38 - Fire Blast
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM53 - Energy Ball
TM58 - Endure
TM61 - Will-O-Wisp
TM70 - Flash
TM75 - Swords Dance
TM76 - Stealth Rock
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM86 - Grass Knot
TM87 - Swagger
TM90 - Substitute

Very basic. Removed Hyper Beam, Giga Impact, and Earthquake, as those are all moves that are generally reserved specifically from fully evolved Pokémon and Ground- or Rock-type Pokémon. Also removed are Light Screen, Overheat, and all three HMs. Light Screen because it doesn't have armor and I see Light Screen as an "armor"-type move. Overheat should be fairly obvious, although I don't know if that means I should also remove Flamethrower and Fire Blast... No HMs because I can't see cute little Embirch using any of those moves.
Aromatherapy
Counter
DragonBreath
GrassWhistle
Psybeam
Revenge
Sand Tomb
Water Sport

All same.
AncientPower
Block
Counter
Double-Edge
Headbutt
Low Kick
Mimic
Mud-Slap
Seed Bomb
Snore
Synthesis
Worry Seed

No Heat Wave for about the same reason as no Overheat (again, I don't know whether to remove all 4 moves... Maybe I'll just get rid of all special Fire-type moves, save Ember). No Iron Defense because it's another "armor"-type move. Earth Power, same reason as Earthquake.

EDIT: Won't have time to finish. :'[
 
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