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Emboar (QC 3/3) (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by athleteandy1, Oct 14, 2011.

  1. athleteandy1

    athleteandy1

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    [​IMG]
    [Overview]

    <p>Emboar may look like a slower Entei at first glance, but upon further examination, you will find that Emboar has a lot to set itself apart. While it's true that Entei is faster and has priority in the form of ExtremeSpeed, Emboar boasts a neutrality to Stealth Rock, a powerful secondary STAB, as well as access to multiple boosting moves, allowing it to run a variety of sets. However, team support to ameliorate its lack of defenses and Speed is almost certainly required. All in all, Emboar requires a good deal of team support, but can help immensely if used right.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Flare Blitz
    move 2: Wild Charge
    move 3: Superpower / Hammer Arm
    move 4: Earthquake / Head Smash
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Blaze
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With such a high Attack stat and low Speed stat, Emboar is just screaming for a Choice Band set. Flare Blitz is the obligatory STAB move to crush bones and raze villages with. Wild Charge is a huge boon to any Fire-type because it allows them beat bulky Water-types, and Emboar is no exception; with Wild Charge and the given Speed EVs, Emboar can outspeed and 2HKO 104 / 176 Impish Alomomola. The next move is up to personal preference. Superpower is the primary option, because Emboar will be switching in and out a lot and won't mind the stat drops as much. Hammer Arm could also be used, but the power difference is notable. The last move slot is basically a filler option, though neither Earthquake nor Head Smash provide substantial additional coverage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>To show how powerful Emboar is with this set, here are some damage calculations against the common walls seen in RU:</p>

    <
    ul class="damage_calculation">
    <li>Flare Blitz vs 252/252 Bold Weezing: 58.7% - 69.5% </li>
    <li>Flare Blitz vs 252/252 Impish Dusknoir: 61.6% - 72.8%</li>
    <li>Flare Blitz vs 252/136 Bold Cofagrigus: 58.1% - 68.4%</li>
    <li>Flare Blitz vs 224/252 Impish Crustle: 55.3% - 65.1%</li>
    <li>Flare Blitz vs 252/252 Impish Sandslash: 59.3% - 69.8%</li>
    <li>Flare Blitz vs 252/252 Bold Claydol: 66.7% - 78.7%</li>
    <li>Flare Blitz vs 252/252 Impish Eviolite Gligar: 43.1% - 51.2%</li>
    <li>Flare Blitz / Superpower vs 252/96 Relaxed Steelix: 81.9% - 97.2%</li>
    <li>Flare Blitz vs 252/252 Relaxed Tangrowth: 95% - 111.9%</li>
    <li>Wild Charge vs 104/176 Impish Alomomola: 55.9% - 66% </li>
    <li>Wild Charge vs 252/252 Impish Poliwrath: 60.4% - 71.4%</li>
    <li>-1 Wild Charge vs 252/252 Impish Qwilfish: 53.9% - 63.5%</li>
    <li>Superpower vs 104/176 Impish Alomomola: 55.7% - 65.8%</li>
    <li>Superpower vs 252/252 Relaxed Quagsire: 63.2% - 74.6% </li>
    <li>Superpower vs 12/252 Impish Hariyama: 70.8% - 83.3%</li>
    <li>Superpower vs 244/104 Impish Mandibuzz: 58.3% - 68.5%</li>

    <p>This set is best used as a wallbreaker that sets up the field for physical sweepers, as Emboar can OHKO or 2HKO almost every wall in RU with the right move. The EVs are designed to provide maximum Attack, outspeed base 70s with no investment, and increase Emboar's bulk, with the Adamant nature maximizing Emboar's damage output. An alternate spread of 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe is usable to outspeed minimum Speed Gligar and Qwifish, but is not recommended due to the severe drop in bulk, which Emboar needs in order to survive its recoil and make up for its puny defenses.</p>

    <p>Grass Knot is an additional option in the last move slot, but it really only hits Quagsire. Emboar pairs nicely with Durant because it resists Durant's Fire-type weakness and can break down the wallsespecially Steel-typesthat might give Durant trouble. In a similar manner, Moxie Honchkrow is a good partner; Emboar both breaks down Steel-type walls and resists the Ice-type moves aimed at Honchkrow, also attracting Earthquakes and other Ground-type moves for Honchkrow to switch in on. Because recoil will stack up, a teammate that can pass Wishes is a major blessing. Alomomola is a good choice in this regard because it passes Wishes, resists Water-type moves, and draws in Grass-type moves for Emboar to come in on. Ironically, Alomomola is also a great check to Emboar, because if the Emboar user doesn't predict the switch, Alomomola can wall him for days.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Flare Blitz
    move 2: Wild Charge
    move 3: Superpower
    move 4: Head Smash / Earthquake
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Blaze
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Slapping a Choice Scarf on Emboar is a perfect way to solve his Speed problem, as with a Choice Scarf, Emboar can outspeed every unboosted Pokemon in the tier bar Accelgor while still hitting very hard. Again, Flare Blitz is Emboar's main move to hit a lot of opponents super effectively. Wild Charge is useful to take down bulky Waters, but it's now impossible to get the 2HKO on Alomomola without Choice Band's boost. The third slot is Superpower because Emboar will be switching out a lot, so it won't mind the drops as much; Hammer Arm on a Choice Scarf set is just silly. Although Head Smash provides little additional coverage, it is the primary slash for the fourth moveslot because it can OHKO Altaria; Earthquake is also an option for the slightly harder hit on Qwilfish, though it does little else.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A set like this one is best used to revenge kill Pokemon that are still too healthy to be picked off by priority. Even with a Jolly nature, Emboar is still capable of hitting hard. Choice Scarf and a Jolly nature are needed to outspeed base 120s and slower. The EVs are to provide maximum power and speed; the remainder is placed in HP.</p>

    <p>Team support is required more for this set than the Choice Band set, simply due to Emboar's lower damage output. Without Choice Band's boost, Emboar cannot 2HKO Alomomola with Wild Charge. A good teammate in this aspect is thus Choice Specs Sceptile, which can destroy Alomomola with Leaf Storm. Also, any Poison- or Steel-type can come in easily on Alomomola due to their immunity to Toxic. An example would be Weezing, which is immune to Toxic, takes little damage from Waterfall, and can cripple Alomomola with Toxic. Honchkrow is again a good teammate because Emboar can defeat the Rock- and Steel-types who would stop a Honchkrow sweep, and Honchkrow can switch in on the Ground-type attacks aimed at Emboar. Wish support is much more necessary on this set. Flare Blitz, Wild Charge, and Head Smash recoil will really start to build up, especially without much HP investment.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Flame Charge
    move 1: Flame Charge
    move 2: Flare Blitz / Fire Blast
    move 3: Wild Charge
    move 4: Superpower / Earthquake / Head Smash
    item: Expert Belt / Life Orb
    ability: Blaze
    nature: Jolly / Naive
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is Emboar's best chance for pulling off a sweep. Flame Charge is necessary on this set to boost Emboar's Speed up to respectable levels. Flare Blitz is Emboar's strongest Fire-type move; however, Fire Blast can be used if you dislike recoil on a sweeper with minimal HP investment. Wild Charge ensures Emboar isn't walled by bulky Water-types such as Alomomola. The last spot is for some coverage, and each move has its own pros and cons. Superpower is a very powerful move and provides the most coverage, but has a nasty side effect of lowering Emboar's Attack and Defense, which is not good for a sweeper. Earthquake provides lesser coverage, but has no drawbacks whatsoever. Head Smash provides about as much coverage as Earthquake and is quite strong, but has costly recoil and middling accuracy.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Expert Belt is the primary option because Emboar can bluff a Choice item and still possess power on a lot of his attacks, thanks to his great coverage; the lack of recoil also helps immensely. However, Life Orb can be used if you want consistent power and don't mind if Emboar dies extremely quickly. The EVs and nature are to allow Emboar to outspeed base 120s after one Flame Charge and outspeed all Choice Scarf users with base 100 Speed after two. Obviously, you would pick Jolly if you chose Flare Blitz and Naive if you chose Fire Blast.</p>

    <p>Because this set is for sweeping, Emboar will need much more team support than he will for the Choice sets. Stealth Rock is necessary because Emboar will only have a chance to sweep once its checks and counters are eliminated. Gligar is a hard stop to this set, taking minimal damage from even Flare Blitz. Cryonogal makes a great teammate due to its ability to reliably check Gligar. Alomomola, and to a lesser extent Qwilfish, are also checks to this set; they can stall out Emboar, killing him with just the recoil damage piled up. Galvantula is a good teammate in this regard, because it can take out troublesome Water-types with a STAB Thunder and also scare off Gligar with a Hidden Power Ice.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Emboar has a lot of other options, but just doesn't have the stats to use them. It could use a Bulk Up set, but lacks the defenses and a reliable recovery move to run this effectively. Heat Crash and Heavy Slam are interesting concepts, but because the damage is based on the difference between Emboar's and the opponent's weight, they are gimmicky and situational at best. An all-out offensive Life Orb set could be used, but Emboar would die just too quickly due to heavy recoil. Grass Knot could be used on either of the first two sets in the last slot, but the only notable Pokemon hit harder by it is Quagsire. Hidden Power Ice could also be used in the last slot to hit his main counter, Gligar. Scald is hilarious on a Fire-type, but is of no real use otherwise. A Choice Specs set with Overheat, Grass Knot, Flamethrower, and a Hidden Power wouldn't be bad. Emboar works very well with Trick Room support; just be sure to use 0 Speed IVs and EVs with a Brave nature if you plan to use it that way.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Emboar is so powerful that one shouldn't expect this list to be long. Gligar isn't 2HKOed by any of Emboar's attacks except Hidden Power Ice or a sun-boosted Choice Band Flare Blitz, and can either stall out Emboar with the recoil damage or just go straight for KO with STAB Earthquake. Intimidate Qwilfish can also cause problems, as it is not 2HKOed by any attack except Choice Band Wild Charge. Outside of these, the best way to check Emboar is to revenge kill it. Faster Pokemon with STAB Water / Flying / Psychic / Ground moves can put Emboar in its place; Sharpedo, Swellow, Medicham, and Dugtrio are great examples of such. Take note, however, that none of these Pokemon can switch into Emboar directly for fear of being OHKOed.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Reckless would be bittersweet for Emboar. While the increase in power would be useful to 2HKO Gligar, the increased recoil from Flare Blitz, Wild Charge, and Head Smash would be border-line suicidal.</p>
  2. Omicron

    Omicron
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    ?_? Kingcharizard already reserved this... :o
  3. PrimeMinister

    PrimeMinister

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    No, that's fine. Athleteandy1 can attempt the analysis. If he can't get past QC, than I'll take over. But thanks, chanazn.
  4. Foxy Grandpa

    Foxy Grandpa

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    set: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Flare Blitz
    move 2: Superpower
    move 3: Wild Charge
    move 4: Head Smash / Earthquake
    ability: Blaze
    item: Choice Scarf
    evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    nature: Jolly

    used it to great success, imo its best set and should probably the primary set
  5. pie cream

    pie cream

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    Shoudn't you give it 248hp for less sealthrock damage?
  6. EonADS

    EonADS

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    ^ Yes, it should.

    Also, Hammer Arm > Superpower on the CB set. Despite the higher base power, Superpower basically forces Emboar to switch out after a single use, while Hammer Arm isn't as much of a concern thanks to Emboar's low Speed and complete lack of investment.
  7. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Actually, since Emboar is choiced, its gonna be switching out a lot anyway. Keep Superpower and AC Hammer Arm. Hammer Arm also has that incredibly frustrating 90% accuracy when compared to Superpower's perfect accuracy. Hammer Arm is really only good on a Trick Room set, where it actually increases its Speed. At this point, I don't believe a Trick Room set is worth an actual set in the analysis, but it'd be good to emphasize in the OO that Emboar is an exceptional abuser of Trick Room.
  8. PrimeMinister

    PrimeMinister

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    Superpower is only viable on a set like this, because whats the purpose of a choice set? Hit hard, switch out. You can't stay in with superpower, due to the -1atk -1def recoil. So if you plan on using the classic bander, than use superpower. Also, Emboar should have 44 speed evs to outspeed base 70s. (Poliwrath). However, if you are running a trick room team, as chanazn suggested, drop the speed evs and put use hammer arm. Curse would also be pretty damn boss with trick room. Aside from that, when you add more analyses, you need to include a bulk up set.
  9. col49

    col49 unpolished
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    From personal experience I can tell you that a Bulk Up set is much less effective than you would think. Without even Drain Punch and it's lack of opportunities to set up, it really doesn't offer much. Definitely mention Flame Charge, obviously for granting you the speed of the Scarf set with the ability to switch moves with the con of having to set up first. Also, not unlike Hp Grass on Entei, Grass Knot is pretty useful for dealing with otherwise almost failsafe counters like Quag.
  10. Molk

    Molk mfw zoroark
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    Yes, 44 spe evs does outspeed base 70s and allows emboar to outspeed and 2hko a poliwrath, if you fell this should be mentioned, then feel free to, and defensive bulk up+recoil moves+bad spdef = bad so no bulk up.
  11. athleteandy1

    athleteandy1

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    Whoops. When I saw the OP on the reservation thread, Emboar was blank
    Thanks bro :)
    Implemented, but I put Earthquake first and slashed Adamant
    Mentioned in OO
    I find that a Bulk Up set doesn't work too well unless it's a Mono-Attacking one with ResTalk because of the lack of recovery. If it was a mono-attacking one, you'd get walled too easily.
    I was thinking Flame Charge too. Mentioned Grass Knot either in the analyses or in OO. I agree with the lack of a Bulk Up set. It needs to regain health in order to Bulk up effectively.
    44 Spe EVs mentioned, because it's worth it
  12. EonADS

    EonADS

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    I'd say remove Adamant as a slash on the Choice Scarf set. Base 65's with a neutral nature can only outspeed Base 105's with a boosting nature at best, which isn't very good. Leave it as Jolly, which lets you outpace Base 120's with a boosting nature.

    Same thing with the Flame Charge set, it's not likely to get more than one boost with minimal bulk.

    I find myself questioning the usability of the Work Up set, mainly because Emboar's build practically screams wallbreaker to begin with. Just to be safe, I'd like to see a few logs of its success. Also, you should make note of which move KOs which Pokemon on that set. I can tell which, but an inexperienced player might not be able to.

    You also still need a checks and counters section. If you're still getting to it, then never mind this bit.
  13. athleteandy1

    athleteandy1

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    The lack of Adamant part makes sense. I'll take out the slash. I'll fix the which-moves-go-to-which-poke part. I just didn't know how I could write that without it looking terrible. I will try and find some logs of its success.

    Edit: I tried to get a couple of logs to show how good it was, but it wasn't strong enough to hit anything without the boost, and it wasn't strong enough hit anything that resisted its STAB when it had the boost. Also there just weren't enough opportunities to set up and it was too slow and frail. I'm going to take it down.
  14. EonADS

    EonADS

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    Note under the Dream World section that the recoil under Reckless borders on insane, despite the massive power boost.

    Remove Adamant from the Flame Charge set. Just like the Choice Scarf set, it's too slow.

    Also, I'll see if I can't get a few damage calcs of the CB set. As best I can tell, CB Superpower is a 2HKO against 252/252 Relaxed Quagsire, even with the Attack drop on the second one. Two very low rolls may require Stealth Rock to secure the KO, but that's still insanely powerful.

    EDIT: Ok, these are versus some of the best tanks/physical walls in the tier. I did these manually, using Blaziken as the original template and then altering its Attack stat to fit Emboar's. I did similar things with the targets, if they were 5th Gen Pokemon.

    Disorganized Damage Calcs (open)

    Wild Charge vs 104/176 Impish Alomomola: 55.9% - 66%
    Superpower vs 104/176 Impish Alomomola: 55.7% - 65.8%
    Superpower vs 252/252 Relaxed Quagsire: 63.2% - 74.6%
    Superpower vs 12/252 Impish Hariyama: 70.8% - 83.3%
    Flare Blitz vs 252/252 Bold Weezing: 58.7% - 69.5%
    Flare Blitz vs 252/252 Impish Dusknoir: 61.6% - 72.8%
    Flare Blitz vs 252/136 Bold Cofagrigus: 58.1% - 68.4%
    Flare Blitz vs 224/252 Impish Crustle: 55.3% - 65.1%
    Flare Blitz vs 252/252 Impish Sandslash: 59.3% - 69.8%
    Flare Blitz vs 252/252 Bold Claydol: 66.7% - 78.7%
    Wild Charge vs 252/252 Impish Poliwrath: 60.4% - 71.4%
    -1 Wild Charge vs 252/252 Impish Qwilfish: 53.9% - 63.5%
    Superpower vs 244/104 Impish Mandibuzz: 58.3% - 68.5%
    Flare Blitz vs 252/252 Bold Sableye: 88.2% - 103.9% (And most support sets run Specially spreads bulky or at maximum run 120 EVs in Defense with a Calm Nature.)
    Flare Blitz vs 252/252 Impish Eviolite Gligar: 43.1% - 51.2% (Probably the best counter this thing has, since it can easily stall Flare Blitz with Roost, deals upwards of 50% with Earthquake, and is faster than Emboar.)
    Flare Blitz (or Superpower, technically) vs 252/96 Relaxed Steelix: 81.9% - 97.2%
    Flare Blitz vs 252/252 Relaxed Tangrowth: 95% - 111.9%


    To sum all this up simply, CB Emboar is a monster. With the proper move and Stealth Rock (or Spikes) in play, it 2HKOs practically every physical wall/tank in the teir. Thus, the best way to beat it is either revenge killing, or predicting its moves and switching accordingly, like any other slow and exceedingly powerful Choice Band user.

    Mention Sun support. I know it's not big in RU, but it's worth noting because of how much stronger Emboar's Flare Blitz can be, making it painful for most anything to switch into, even Intimidate Qwilfish (takes 39.8% minimum after Intimidate, 59.9% minimum without it).

    One final thing for the CB set: Mention a 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe spread in the AC of the Choice Band set. That allows you to outpace defensive sets of Eviolite Gligar Qwilfish (two of this thing's worst counters), as well as any other uninvested base 85 Speed Pokemon that might be lurking around. That actually allows you a good chance of beating both of them, provided you're using the right move and Stealth Rock is in play.
  15. athleteandy1

    athleteandy1

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    I think I got it all. And I included your damage calcs
  16. athleteandy1

    athleteandy1

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    bump. Ready for QC checks
  17. athleteandy1

    athleteandy1

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  18. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Please try to refrain from bumping your thread every few days, the QC team will get to it, just be patient. Bump posts are just a waste of time tbh. If you reaaally need a QC check, you can always PM a QC member and I'm sure they'll be happy to take a look at your analysis when they have the chance to. That said, your skeleton seems to be in excellent condition, so i'm sure the QC team won't have any problems approving this once they get to it.
  19. Oglemi

    Oglemi <&Oglemi> i am a gay badger buddy :3
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    [​IMG]

    QC APPROVED 1/3

    yeah don't incessently bump your thread, we'll get to it.
  20. athleteandy1

    athleteandy1

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    Updated with recent Sableye and Alakazam bannings.
  21. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    (shakes head)

    If you only you were a Fire / Ground type...
    QC APPROVED (2/3)
  22. Fried Rhys

    Fried Rhys

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    QC APPROVED (3/3)
  23. athleteandy1

    athleteandy1

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    Written up. Awaiting GP checks.
  24. Omicron

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    I think you forgot to remove some bullet points lol
  25. athleteandy1

    athleteandy1

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    >_< Stupid lack of intelligence.

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