1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Empoleon (QC 2/2 GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Biosci, Feb 4, 2012.

  1. Biosci

    Biosci !
    is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a VGC3 Winner

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,470
    [​IMG]
    I'm a p-p-p-p-p-p-p-Penguin

    [Overview]

    <p>Back in the days before the 5th Generation and the year of the Ubers, Empoleon had some wide usage in VGC. While its typing let it resist lots of moves, Empoleon gets hit fairly hard by common moves such as Earthquake, Close Combat, and Thunderbolt. However, with a nice Special Attacking stat along with bulky base defenses and low base Speed, Empoleon makes good use out of being under Trick Room to easily produce a sweep.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Supporter
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Icy Wind
    move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Grass Knot
    move 4: Protect
    item: Chople Berry / Wacan Berry
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Scald is the main STAB for the set as it's one of Empoleon's most reliable Water-type STABs with benefits. Icy Wind is a nice move that Empoleon has in its arsenal to help it take on more of a team supporting role by lowering the opponent's Speed and dealing damage at the same time. Hidden Power Grass gets most of its use by hitting things such as Gastrodon and Rotom-W, who otherwise wall almost anything Empoleon has. However, Grass Knot can hit others including Rhyperior and Swampert harder. Protect is a staple on almost anything in VGC. It can help stall, give protection for that turn, and help mess with the opponent's predictions on who to attack the next turn.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>With the prevalent use of Fighting-types in this metagame, Chople Berry helps Empoleon tank even the strongest Fighting-type attack. Wacan Berry is another choice with the common use of Pokemon like Rotom-W, Zapdos, and Thundurus roaming about with hard hitting moves, and Wacan Berry lets Empoleon survive these. Both berries also leave Empoleon at enough HP to have Torrent activate, strengthening Scald. As mentioned before, Torrent is a far superior ability for Empoleon over Defiant. A Calm nature gives Empoleon slightly more special bulk, allowing it to survive an Electric Gem-boosted Thunder from Zapdos with Wacan Berry as well as other special attacking moves. Full HP investment lets Empoleon survive lots of attacks and last longer to utilize Icy Wind more and more. Full Special Attack investment ensures it still hits hard while being a decent supporter.</p>

    <p>Rain support is cool to boost Empoleon's main STAB and to be in control of the dominating weather on the field. Empoleon can pair well with slower hard hitting Pokemon that enjoy facing opponents with lowered Speed from Icy Wind support, namely Hydreigon, Chandelure, and Rotom-A; all can be big threats but are often slower than major foes such as Latios or Garchomp. Tornadus and Crobat make good partners as they prevent Fighting-types on the field from causing a big problem for Empoleon with their Flying Gem-boosted Acrobatics.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Trick Room Attacker
    move 1: Scald / Hydro Pump
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Grass Knot / Hidden Power Flying
    move 4: Protect
    item: Absorb Bulb
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Quiet
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
    iv: 2 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Scald is the main STAB option on the set. It deals some good damage and has a slight chance to burn the opponent, which may come in handy when hitting physical attackers. Hydro Pump is the other option as it is stronger, but has a higher chance to miss, which may be crucial in some games. Ice Beam gives coverage over many things that threaten Empoleon, such as Garchomp, Zapdos, and Thundurus, who can all use their respective STAB moves to deal heavy damage to Empoleon. Grass Knot hits fellow Water-types, such as Gastrodon and Swampert. Hidden Power Flying gives you excellent coverage to hit Fighting-typed threats, like Hitmontop and Toxicroak. Protect is a staple move for any Pokemon in VGC. It can do great things during a match like stall burns, prevent a turn from being wasted due to Fake Out, or just keep Empoleon safe from harm while it's partner takes out threats.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>To maximize the attacking output of Empoleon, Life Orb is the item of choice for it. However, Chople Berry can be an alternative option as a lot of the time, Life Orb is already used up on the majority of Trick Room teams. Chople Berry can help Empoleon tank the common Fighting-types in metagame like Scrafty and Hariyama. Torrent is the best ability for Empoleon having more practical uses over Defiant, since Empoleon is a better Special Attacker. Quiet nature maximizes Empoleon's Special Attack and decreases its Speed for better Trick Room use. Empoleon has decent base defenses, but a somewhat low HP stat of 84, so with full investment Empoleon becomes harder to OHKO with moves such as Earthquake from Garchomp and Mamoswine. A Speed IV of 2 in conjunction with the right IVs in the other stats allows Empoleon to get maximum power on Hidden Power Flying while being as slow as possible for Trick Room. Aqua Jet could be used to finish off weakened opponents. Hidden Power Grass is an option to use over Grass Knot to be able to hit things like Gastrodon, Rotom-W, and Quagsire harder. If you do use this as an option, a Speed IV of 3 along with the other IVs matching in the right field will make a Grass-type Hidden Power. Surf can be used as the main Water-type STAB for Empoleon, but should only be used with partners immune to Surf such as Gastrodon so you don't have to waste a moveslot with Protect on your partner when using it.</p>

    <p>Pokemon who work well at setting up Trick Room pair very well with Empoleon as they can set Trick Room for Empoleon to wreck the rest of the team. Other Pokemon who work well under Trick Room that have Lightningrod, such as Marowak and Seaking, are excellent partners for Empoleon, as they prevent foes like Zapdos and Thundurus from being huge threats. Empoleon's counters mostly consist of common VGC physical attackers, such as Hitmontop, Garchomp and Excadrill, as they can all hit Empoleon for super effective damage. Prankster Sableye is a good partner, as it can use Will-O-Wisp and the combination of Trick and Lagging Tail to stop these kinds of threats that may KO Empoleon. Politoed makes a good partner with the ability to set rain and increase the power of Empoleon's main STAB.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Hidden Power Fighting can hit both Ferrothorn and Abomasnow super effectively, regardless of weather. Hidden Power Fire can also hit both of these but fails while it is raining. FeatherDance can lower the Attack of physical attackers, making it harder for them to KO Empoleon. The same principle is applied when using Iron Defense to boost your own Defense to take hits better. Blizzard can be used over Ice Beam if Empoleon is paired with Abomasnow. Flash Cannon is a useful STAB move, but only gives extra coverage on Ice-types like Abomasnow and Glaceon. Empoleon's only other ability is Defiant, which it gets from the Dream World. Its Attack stat is somewhat decent, but the only time you would see Attack boosts from this ability would be in the face of Intimidate users. This could help Empoleon beat Intimidate Hitmontop, but it can fail a lot if not played correctly. Empoleon could abuse Absorb Bulb on an offensive set, as it resists Water-types and can somewhat easily collect boosts.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Unless Empoleon somehow finds a way to stop Electric-type attacks from hurting it through team support, Empoleon gets done in by fast, strong Electric-types such as Zapdos, Rotom-W, and Thundurus. Rotom-W checks Empoleon very well as it resists all of Empoleon's moves and takes very little from Grass Knot and can hit back pretty hard with Thunderbolt. Fighting-types such as Hitmontop and Hitmonlee, can use priority attacks like Mach Punch or just Close Combat to severely damage Empoleon. Gastrodon can sponge almost all of Empoleon's hits if it lacks Hidden Power Grass or Grass Knot. Most common sand abusers can hurt Empoleon with powerful and quick Earthquakes to deal a lot of damage, potentially KOing Empoleon.</p>

    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>Back in the days before the 5th Generation and the year of the Ubers, Empoleon had some wide usage in VGC. While resisting lots of moves with excellent typing, Empoleon gets hit fairly hard by common moves like Earthquake, Close Combat, and Thunderbolt. With a nice Special Attacking stat along with bulky base defenses and low base Speed, Empoleon makes good use out of being under Trick Room to easily produce a sweep.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Supporter
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Icy Wind
    move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Grass Knot
    move 4: Protect
    item: Chople Berry / Wacan Berry
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Scald is the main STAB for the set as it's one of Empoleon's most reliable Water-type STABs with benefits. Icy Wind is a nice move that Empoleon has in it's arsenal to help it take on more of a team supporting role. It helps a lot with being able to lower the Speed of the opponent and doing damage at the same time. Hidden Power Grass gets most use out of hitting things like Gastrodon and Rotom-W who otherwise wall almost anything Empoleon does. However, Grass Knot can hit others like Rhyperior and Swampert harder. Protect is a staple on almost anything in VGC. It can help stall, give protection for that turn, and help mess with the opponents predictions on who to attack next turn.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]


    <p>With the wide spread and prevalent use of Fighting-types in this metagame, Chople Berry helps Empoleon tank even the strongest Fighting-type attack. Wacan Berry is another choice with the common use of Pokemon like Rotom-W, Zapdos, and Thundurus roaming about with hard hitting moves, and Wacan Berry lets Empoleon survive these. Both berries also leave Empoleon at enough HP to have Torrent activate to strengthen Scald. As mentioned before, Torrent is a far superior ability for Empoleon over Defiant. A Calm nature brings slightly more special bulk allowing it to survive Electric Gem Thunder from Zapdos with Wacan Berry as well as other Special Attacking moves. Full HP Investment lets Empoleon survive lots of Attacks and last longer to Icy Wind more and more. Full Special Attack investment ensures it still hits hard while being a decent supporter.</p>

    <p>Rain support to cool to boost Empoleon's main STAB and to be in control of the the dominating weather on the field. Empoleon can pair well with slower hard hitting Pokemon that enjoy the opponent being speed down with Icy Wind support. Namely Pokemon like Hydreigon, Chandelure, and Rotom-A who can be big threats, but often underspeed major threats like Latios or Garchomp. Tornadus and Crobat make good partners as handle Fighting-types on the field from causing a big problem for Empoleon with Flying Gem Acrobatics.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Trick Room Attacker
    move 1: Scald / Hydro Pump
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Grass Knot / Hidden Power Flying
    move 4: Protect
    item: Absorb Bulb
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Quiet
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
    iv: 2 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Scald is the main STAB on the set. It deals some good damage and a slight chance to burn the opponent, which may come in handy when hitting physical attackers. Hydro Pump is the other option as it is stronger, but with lower accuracy it has chances to fail, which may be crucial in some games. Ice Beam gives coverage over many things that threaten Empoleon, like Garchomp, Zapdos, and Thundurus who can all supply their respective STAB moves to deal heavy damage. Grass Knot is used to hit fellow Water-types and Pokemon like Gastrodon and Swampert. Hidden Power Flying gives you excellent coverage to hit Fighting-type threats, like Hitmontop and Toxicroak. Protect is a staple move for any Pokemon in VGC. It can great things during a match like stall burns, prevent a turn from being wasted from Fake Out, or just keeping Empoleon safe from harm while it's partner does work at taking out threats.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]


    <p>To maximize the attacking output of Empoleon, Life Orb is the item of choice for it. However, Chople Berry can be an alternative option as a lot of the time Life Orb is already used up on the majority of Trick Room teams. Chople Berry can help with tanking the common Fighting-types in metagame like Scrafty and Hariyama. Torrent is the best ability for Empoleon having more practical uses over Defiant, since Empoleon is a better Special Attacker. A Quiet nature is used to increase Empoleon's Special Attack as much as possible, along with decreasing it's Speed for better Trick Room use. Empoleon has decent base defenses, but a somewhat low HP stat of 84, so with full investment Empoleon becomes harder to OHKO from things like Earthquake from Garmchomp and Mamoswine. A Speed IV of 2 in conjunction with the right IVs in the other stats, allows Empoleon to get maximum power on Hidden Power Flying while being as slow as possible for Trick Room. Aqua Jet could be used somewhere on the set to finish off weakened opponents. Hidden Power Grass can be an option to use over Grass Knot to be able to hit things like Gastrodon, Rotom-W, and Quagsire harder. If you do use this as an option, a Speed IV of 3 along with the other ivs matching in the right field will supply a Grass-type Hidden Power. Surf can be used as the main Water-type STAB for Empoleon, but should only be used with partners like Gastrodon so you don't have to the mandatory Protect on your partner when using it.</p>

    <p>Pokemon who work well at setting up Trick Room pair very well with Empoleon as they can set Trick Room for Empoleon to wreck the rest of the team. Other Pokemon who work well under Trick Room with Lightningrod ability, like Marowak and Seaking, are excellent partners for Empoleon as they remove things like Zapdos and Thundurus from being huge threats. Counters mostly consist of common VGC physical attackers, like Hitmontop, Garchomp and Excadrill, as they can all hit Empoleon for super effective damage. Prankster Sableye is a good partner as it can use Will-O-Wisp and Trick+Lagging Tail to stop these kinds of threats that may KO Empoleon. Politoed makes a good partner with the ability to set rain and increase the power of Empoleon's main STAB.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Hidden Power Fighting can be used to hit both Ferrothorn and Abomasnow super effectively inside and outside of rain. Hidden Power Fire can also hit both of these, but fails under the influence of rain. FeatherDance can be used to lower the issue of physical attackers being able to KO. The same principle is shown when using Iron Defense to boost your own defenses to take hits better. Blizzard can be used over Ice Beam if Empoleon is paired with Abomasnow. Flash Cannon is a useful STAB move, but only gives extra coverage on Ice-types like Abomasnow and Glaceon. Empoleon's only other ability is Defiant, which is gets from the Dream World. It's Attack stat is somewhat decent, but the only time you would see Attack boosts from this ability would be in the face of Intimidate users. This could help Empoleon beat Intimidate Hitmontop, but it can fail a lot if not played correctly. Empoleon could abuse Absorb Bulb on an offensive set being that it resists Water-types and can somewhat easily collect boosts.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]


    <p>Unless Empoleon some how finds a way to stop Electric-type attacks from hurting it through team support, Empoleon gets screwed over by fast hard hitting Electric-types like Zapdos, Rotom-W, and Thundurus. Especially Rotom-W as it resists all of Empoleon's moves and takes very little from Grass Knot and can hit back pretty hard with Thunderbolt. Fighting-types, like Hitmontop and Hitmonlee, can use priority attacks like Mach Punch, or just go for a fast Close Combat to do severe damage to Empoleon. Gastrodon can sponge almost all of Empoleon's hits if it lacks Hidden Power Grass or Grass Knot. Most common sand abusers can hurt Empoleon with powerful and quick Earthquakes to either hurt for a lot, or just out right KO Empoleon.</p>

  2. Biosci

    Biosci !
    is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a VGC3 Winner

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,470
    This is ready for QC
  3. R Inanimate

    R Inanimate Grasp the earth, Grasp the World.
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2011
    Messages:
    736
    -Should mention Surf in AC or OO
    -I think type-resist berries like Wacan or Chople Berry might also deserve a mention as well in OO

    -Noting how 252 HP Metagross takes 82.3-96.6% from a LO Hydro Pump, it doesn't really sound like it can "walk all over Empoleon", thus should probably not be mentioned as a counter

    -Probably should note that Rotom-W, in particular, takes little damage from Empoleon as Grass Knot is only 20 Power against it and it resists all other attacks
  4. Biosci

    Biosci !
    is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a VGC3 Winner

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,470
    Added/fixed , Surf in AC; Chople, Shuca, and Wacan berries in OO; took out Metagross as a counter, and emphasized the issue of Rotom-W.
  5. The Knights of Wario Land

    The Knights of Wario Land

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Messages:
    819
    I don't think Icy Wind should even be considered for a TR Attacker.

    Also I'd mention Gastrodon if Empoleon is not carrying Grass Knot.
  6. Biosci

    Biosci !
    is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a VGC3 Winner

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,470
    The Icy Wind is in OO not the main set, and mentioning Gastrodon
  7. muffinhead

    muffinhead b202 wifi vgc
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2010
    Messages:
    933
    please add a calm support set with icy wind and chople or wacan or something it is really cool
  8. Biosci

    Biosci !
    is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a VGC3 Winner

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,470
    Okay added the supporter as the first set, I admit I wrote them up quickly, but I'll expand on what I said in the final write up.
  9. R Inanimate

    R Inanimate Grasp the earth, Grasp the World.
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2011
    Messages:
    736
    Only one c in Shuca. Also, any particular reason why Shuca over Chople? I think Fighting attacks are more abundant in the metagame and more likely to OHKO you, since Earthquake is 75% power, and you have a sizable amount of Special Defense to tank Earth Power.
  10. Biosci

    Biosci !
    is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a VGC3 Winner

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,470
    -__- fixed the spelling. Now about Shuca Berry over Chople. Here are some calcs I ran from various common Earthquake users to hit Empoleon:
    Show Hide

    252Atk lvl 50 Garchomp (+Atk) Earthquake vs 252HP/4Def lvl 50 Empoleon (Neutral): 107% - 128% (206 - 246 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
    252Atk lvl 50 Rhyperior (+Atk) Earthquake vs 252HP/4Def lvl 50 Empoleon (Neutral): 114% - 136% (218 - 260 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
    252Atk lvl 50 Mamoswine (+Atk) Earthquake vs 252HP/4Def lvl 50 Empoleon (Neutral): 107% - 128% (206 - 246 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.


    And then I realized the calc I was using wasn't factoring in the spread move factor and all my reasoning was shattered.............;-;

    Yeah switching to Chople now that I have the right calcs and I know without Shuca Empoleon gets the right revenge kills on EQ users.
  11. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,737
    If it weren't for the ubiquity of Earthquake and Thunderbolt/Discharge, Empoleon would be a great anti-metagame Pokemon. 11 resistances and immunity to Toxic are a big plus.

    I'm a bit leery of Wacan Berry over the other berries, and here's some damage calculations to show why. Basically it boils down to Empoleon not really gaining anything from using a Wacan Berry over another Berry.

    Damage calcs (open)
    Assume attacker has 252Sp.Atk, and Empoleon has 252HP/4Def and +Sp.Def Nature (for consistency sake).

    Zapdos & Thundurus (+Sp.Atk) Thunderbolt vs Empoleon: 81.7% - 97.4% (Wacan 40.9% - 48.7%)
    ---Empoleon w/ neutral nature: 88.7 - 104.8% (chance to OHKO, 44.4% - 52.4% w/ Wacan)
    Zapdos & Thundurus (+Sp.Atk) Discharge vs Empoleon (w/ spread penalty): 53.4% - 62.8% (Wacan 26.7% - 31.4%)
    Zapdos & Thundurus (+Sp.Atk) Thunder vs Empoleon: 104.7% - 123.6% (Guaranteed OHKO w/o Wacan, W/ Wacan 52.4 - 61.8%)

    Zapdos & Thundurus (+Speed) Thunderbolt vs Empoleon: 75.4% - 89% (Wacan 37.7% - 44.5%)
    Zapdos & Thundurus (+Speed) Thunder vs Empoleon: 95.3-113.1% (chance to OHKO w/o Wacan, w/ Wacan 47.7% - 56.5%)

    Rotom (any forme) Thunderbolt vs Empoleon: 73.3% - 88% (Wacan 36.7% - 44%)
    Rotom (any forme) Discharge vs Empoleon: (w/ Spread penalty): 44% - 51.3% (Wacan 22% - 25.7%)

    Discharge is turned from a 2HKO into a 3HKO, while Thunderbolt remains a 2HKO (Thunder is turned from a OHKO to a 2HKO, but Thunder is rarer than Thunderbolt). But if you're using Wacan Berry to try to get into Torrent range versus a Thunderbolt, more often than not you're going to miss the mark without some additional prior damage. Besides that, none of these Pokemon are KO'd back by Empoleon; they are merely 2HKO'd by the appropriate super effective move.




    For counters, Ferrothorn can take anything that Empoleon throws at it, and hit back with a neutral Power Whip. Abomasnow also resists Empoleon's attacks unless it carries the appropriate Hidden Power,. Hidden Power Fire is an option to get past both of these if required, but it hurts coverage a LOT compared to Grass or Flying (If running Empoleon with rain support, HP Fire should not be used anyway).

    On the other hand, Empoleon should try to avoid the sun, as unlike most Water types, Empoleon takes neutral damage to Fire, and gets scorched hard by Sun boosted STAB Fire attacks (Modest 252SpAtk Ninetales Flamethrower does 75.4% - 89% in Sunlight!).
  12. Biosci

    Biosci !
    is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a VGC3 Winner

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,470
    Okay; switched the order of the berries; and mentioned HP Fighting and Fire in OO, because Fighting can still hit Abomasnow and Ferrothorn inside of rain.
  13. Alakapimp

    Alakapimp All washed up
    is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2008
    Messages:
    3,113
    I would take out the mention of Choice Scarf, Jelli is a meh scarfer and is waaay better than Emploeon. Emp doesn't have Water Spout or Fake-Out immunity, which are the two biggest reasons jelli is ok. Emp is also weak to Mach Punch whereas jelli is immune to 4 of the most common priority moves.

    Other than that, 1/2
  14. JRank

    JRank
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,299
    Mention Chople Berry in AC of the TR Attacker set, in my experience slow Fighting-types (Scrafty, Hitmontop) are used by the opponent when facing a TR team, and a lot of TR teams utilize a LO so it may not be available.

    After that QC 2 / 2
  15. Biosci

    Biosci !
    is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a VGC3 Winner

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,470
    Thanks for the check, this is ready for GP.
  16. Steven Snype

    Steven Snype
    is a Tutoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,035
    add/replace with
    remove
    comments


    done (open)

    [Overview]

    <p>Back in the days before the 5th Generation and the year of the Ubers, Empoleon had some wide usage in VGC. While its typing let it resist lots of moves, Empoleon gets hit fairly hard by common moves such as Earthquake, Close Combat, and Thunderbolt. With a nice Special Attacking stat along with bulky base defenses and low base Speed, Empoleon makes good use out of being under Trick Room to easily produce a sweep.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Supporter
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Icy Wind
    move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Grass Knot
    move 4: Protect
    item: Chople Berry / Wacan Berry
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Scald is the main STAB for the set as it's one of Empoleon's most reliable Water-type STABs with benefits. Icy Wind is a nice move that Empoleon has in its arsenal to help it take on more of a team supporting role. It helps a lot with being able to by lowering the opponent's Speed the Speed of the opponent and dealing damage at the same time. Hidden Power Grass gets its most use by hitting things like Gastrodon and Rotom-W who otherwise wall almost anything Empoleon does. However, Grass Knot can hit others like Rhyperior and Swampert harder. Protect is a staple on almost anything in VGC. It can help stall, give protection for that turn, and help mess with the opponent's predictions on who to attack the next turn.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>With the wide spread and prevalent use of Fighting-types in this metagame, Chople Berry helps Empoleon tank even the strongest Fighting-type attack. Wacan Berry is another choice with the common use of Pokemon like Rotom-W, Zapdos, and Thundurus roaming about with hard hitting moves, and Wacan Berry lets Empoleon survive these. Both berries also leave Empoleon at enough HP to have Torrent activate, strengthening Scald. As mentioned before, Torrent is a far superior ability for Empoleon over Defiant. A Calm nature gives Empoleon slightly more special bulk, allowing it to survive an Electric Gem-boosted Thunder from Zapdos with Wacan Berry as well as other special attacking moves. Full HP investment lets Empoleon survive lots of Attacks and last longer to Icy Wind more and more. Full Special Attack investment ensures it still hits hard while being a decent supporter.</p>

    <p>Rain support is cool to boost Empoleon's main STAB and to be in control of the the dominating weather on the field. Empoleon can pair well with slower hard hitting Pokemon that enjoy facing opponents with lowered Speed from Icy Wind support, namely Pokemon like Hydreigon, Chandelure, and Rotom-A who can be big threats, but often underspeed major threats like Latios or Garchomp. Tornadus and Crobat make good partners as they prevent Fighting-types on the field from causing a big problem for Empoleon with their Flying Gem-boosted Acrobatics.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Trick Room Attacker
    move 1: Scald / Hydro Pump
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Grass Knot / Hidden Power Flying
    move 4: Protect
    item: Absorb Bulb
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Quiet
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
    iv: 2 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Scald is the main STAB option on the set. It deals some good damage and has a slight chance to burn the opponent, which may come in handy when hitting physical attackers. Hydro Pump is the other option as it is stronger, but has a higher chance to miss, which may be crucial in some games. Ice Beam gives coverage over many things that threaten Empoleonsuch as Garchomp, Zapdos, and Thundurus, who can all use their respective STAB moves to deal heavy damage to Empoleon. Grass Knot hits fellow Water-types such as Gastrodon and Swampert. Hidden Power Flying gives you excellent coverage to hit Fighting-typed threats, like Hitmontop and Toxicroak. Protect is a staple move for any Pokemon in VGC. It can do great things during a match like stall burns, prevent a turn from being wasted due to Fake Out, or just keeping Empoleon safe from harm while it's partner takes out threats.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>To maximize the attacking output of Empoleon, Life Orb is the item of choice for it. However, Chople Berry can be an alternative option as a lot of the time, Life Orb is already used up on the majority of Trick Room teams. Chople Berry can help Empoleon tank the common Fighting-types in metagame like Scrafty and Hariyama. Torrent is the best ability for Empoleon having more practical uses over Defiant, since Empoleon is a better Special Attacker. A Quiet nature maximizes Empoleon's Special Attack as much as possible, along with and decreases its Speed for better Trick Room use. Empoleon has decent base defenses, but a somewhat low HP stat of 84, so with full investment Empoleon becomes harder to OHKO from things like Earthquake from Garchomp and Mamoswine. A Speed IV of 2 in conjunction with the right IVs in the other stats, allows Empoleon to get maximum power on Hidden Power Flying while being as slow as possible for Trick Room. Aqua Jet could be used somewhere on the set to finish off weakened opponents. Hidden Power Grass is an option to use over Grass Knot to be able to hit things like Gastrodon, Rotom-W, and Quagsire harder. If you do use this as an option, a Speed IV of 3 along with the other IVs matching in the right field will make a Grass-type Hidden Power. Surf can be used as the main Water-type STAB for Empoleon, but should only be used with partners immune to Surf such as Gastrodon so you don't have to waste a moveslot with Protect on your partner when using it.</p>

    <p>Pokemon who work well at setting up Trick Room pair very well with Empoleon as they can set Trick Room for Empoleon to wreck the rest of the team. Other Pokemon who work well under Trick Room that have Lightningrod such as Marowak and Seaking, are excellent partners for Empoleon as they prevent foes like Zapdos and Thundurus from being huge threats. Empoleon's counters mostly consist of common VGC physical attackers, like Hitmontop, Garchomp and Excadrill, as they can all hit Empoleon for super effective damage. Prankster Sableye is a good partner as it can use Will-O-Wisp and the combination of Trick and Lagging Tail to stop these kinds of threats that may KO Empoleon. Politoed makes a good partner with the ability to set rain and increase the power of Empoleon's main STAB.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Hidden Power Fighting can be used to hit both Ferrothorn and Abomasnow super effectively regardless of weather. Hidden Power Fire can also hit both of these, but fails while it is raining. FeatherDance can be used to lower the Attack of physical attackers, making it harder for them to KO Empoleon. The same principle is applied when using Iron Defense to boost your own Defense to take hits better. Blizzard can be used over Ice Beam if Empoleon is paired with Abomasnow. Flash Cannon is a useful STAB move, but only gives extra coverage on Ice-types like Abomasnow and Glaceon. Empoleon's only other ability is Defiant, which it gets from the Dream World. Its Attack stat is somewhat decent, but the only time you would see Attack boosts from this ability would be in the face of Intimidate users. This could help Empoleon beat Intimidate Hitmontop, but it can fail a lot if not played correctly. Empoleon could abuse Absorb Bulb on an offensive set being that it resists Water-types and can somewhat easily collect boosts.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Unless Empoleon somehow finds a way to stop Electric-type attacks from hurting it through team support, Empoleon gets screwed over by fast hard hitting Electric-types such as Zapdos, Rotom-W, and Thundurus. Rotom-W checks Empoleon very well as it resists all of Empoleon's moves and takes very little from Grass Knot and can hit back pretty hard with Thunderbolt. Fighting-types such as Hitmontop and Hitmonlee, can use priority attacks like Mach Punch, or just go for a fast Close Combat to severely damage to Empoleon. Gastrodon can sponge almost all of Empoleon's hits if it lacks Hidden Power Grass or Grass Knot. Most common sand abusers can hurt Empoleon with powerful and quick Earthquakes to deal a lot of damage, potentially KOing Empoleon.</p>


    [​IMG]
    GP Approved (1/2)
  17. Biosci

    Biosci !
    is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a VGC3 Winner

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,470
    Thank you for the GP Check :D, Implemented
  18. Ray Jay

    Ray Jay "The sky's the limit, okey-dokey!"
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    May 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,692
    GP 2/2
    [​IMG]
    Grammar Check (open)

    [Overview]
    <p>Back in the days before the 5th Generation and the year of the Ubers, Empoleon had some wide usage in VGC. While its typing let it resist lots of moves, Empoleon gets hit fairly hard by common moves such as Earthquake, Close Combat, and Thunderbolt. WHowever, with a nice Special Attacking stat along with bulky base defenses and low base Speed, Empoleon makes good use out of being under Trick Room to easily produce a sweep.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Supporter
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Icy Wind
    move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Grass Knot
    move 4: Protect
    item: Chople Berry / Wacan Berry
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Scald is the main STAB for the set as it's one of Empoleon's most reliable Water-type STABs with benefits. Icy Wind is a nice move that Empoleon has in its arsenal to help it take on more of a team supporting role by lowering the opponent's Speed and dealing damage at the same time. Hidden Power Grass gets its most of its use by hitting things likesuch as Gastrodon and Rotom-W, who otherwise wall almost anything Empoleon doehas. However, Grass Knot can hit others likeincluding Rhyperior and Swampert harder. Protect is a staple on almost anything in VGC. It can help stall, give protection for that turn, and help mess with the opponent's predictions on who to attack the next turn.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>With the prevalent use of Fighting-types in this metagame, Chople Berry helps Empoleon tank even the strongest Fighting-type attack. Wacan Berry is another choice with the common use of Pokemon like Rotom-W, Zapdos, and Thundurus roaming about with hard hitting moves, and Wacan Berry lets Empoleon survive these. Both berries also leave Empoleon at enough HP to have Torrent activate, strengthening Scald. As mentioned before, Torrent is a far superior ability for Empoleon over Defiant. A Calm nature gives Empoleon slightly more special bulk, allowing it to survive an Electric Gem-boosted Thunder from Zapdos with Wacan Berry as well as other special attacking moves. Full HP investment lets Empoleon survive lots of Aattacks and last longer to utilize Icy Wind more and more. Full Special Attack investment ensures it still hits hard while being a decent supporter.</p>

    <p>Rain support is cool to boost Empoleon's main STAB and to be in control of the dominating weather on the field. Empoleon can pair well with slower hard hitting Pokemon that enjoy facing opponents with lowered Speed from Icy Wind support, namely Pokemon like Hydreigon, Chandelure, and Rotom-A who; all can be big threats but are often underspeed major threats likeslower than major foes such as Latios or Garchomp. Tornadus and Crobat make good partners as they prevent Fighting-types on the field from causing a big problem for Empoleon with their Flying Gem-boosted Acrobatics.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Trick Room Attacker
    move 1: Scald / Hydro Pump
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Grass Knot / Hidden Power Flying
    move 4: Protect
    item: Absorb Bulb
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Quiet
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
    iv: 2 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Scald is the main STAB option on the set. It deals some good damage and has a slight chance to burn the opponent, which may come in handy when hitting physical attackers. Hydro Pump is the other option as it is stronger, but has a higher chance to miss, which may be crucial in some games. Ice Beam gives coverage over many things that threaten Empoleon, such as Garchomp, Zapdos, and Thundurus, who can all use their respective STAB moves to deal heavy damage to Empoleon. Grass Knot hits fellow Water-types, such as Gastrodon and Swampert. Hidden Power Flying gives you excellent coverage to hit Fighting-typed threats, like Hitmontop and Toxicroak. Protect is a staple move for any Pokemon in VGC. It can do great things during a match like stall burns, prevent a turn from being wasted due to Fake Out, or just keep Empoleon safe from harm while it's partner takes out threats.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>To maximize the attacking output of Empoleon, Life Orb is the item of choice for it. However, Chople Berry can be an alternative option as a lot of the time, Life Orb is already used up on the majority of Trick Room teams. Chople Berry can help Empoleon tank the common Fighting-types in metagame like Scrafty and Hariyama. Torrent is the best ability for Empoleon having more practical uses over Defiant, since Empoleon is a better Special Attacker. Quiet nature maximizes Empoleon's Special Attack and decreases its Speed for better Trick Room use. Empoleon has decent base defenses, but a somewhat low HP stat of 84, so with full investment Empoleon becomes harder to OHKO from things likewith moves such as Earthquake from Garchomp and Mamoswine. A Speed IV of 2 in conjunction with the right IVs in the other stats, allows Empoleon to get maximum power on Hidden Power Flying while being as slow as possible for Trick Room. Aqua Jet could be used to finish off weakened opponents. Hidden Power Grass is an option to use over Grass Knot to be able to hit things like Gastrodon, Rotom-W, and Quagsire harder. If you do use this as an option, a Speed IV of 3 along with the other IVs matching in the right field will make a Grass-type Hidden Power. Surf can be used as the main Water-type STAB for Empoleon, but should only be used with partners immune to Surf such as Gastrodon so you don't have to waste a moveslot with Protect on your partner when using it.</p>
    <p>Pokemon who work well at setting up Trick Room pair very well with Empoleon as they can set Trick Room for Empoleon to wreck the rest of the team. Other Pokemon who work well under Trick Room that have Lightningrod, such as Marowak and Seaking, are excellent partners for Empoleon, as they prevent foes like Zapdos and Thundurus from being huge threats. Empoleon's counters mostly consist of common VGC physical attackers, likesuch as Hitmontop, Garchomp and Excadrill, as they can all hit Empoleon for super effective damage. Prankster Sableye is a good partner, as it can use Will-O-Wisp and the combination of Trick and Lagging Tail to stop these kinds of threats that may KO Empoleon. Politoed makes a good partner with the ability to set rain and increase the power of Empoleon's main STAB.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Hidden Power Fighting can hit both Ferrothorn and Abomasnow super effectively, regardless of weather. Hidden Power Fire can also hit both of these but fails while it is raining. FeatherDance can lower the Attack of physical attackers, making it harder for them to KO Empoleon. The same principle is applied when using Iron Defense to boost your own Defense to take hits better. Blizzard can be used over Ice Beam if Empoleon is paired with Abomasnow. Flash Cannon is a useful STAB move, but only gives extra coverage on Ice-types like Abomasnow and Glaceon. Empoleon's only other ability is Defiant, which it gets from the Dream World. Its Attack stat is somewhat decent, but the only time you would see Attack boosts from this ability would be in the face of Intimidate users. This could help Empoleon beat Intimidate Hitmontop, but it can fail a lot if not played correctly. Empoleon could abuse Absorb Bulb on an offensive set being that, as it resists Water-types and can somewhat easily collect boosts.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Unless Empoleon somehow finds a way to stop Electric-type attacks from hurting it through team support, Empoleon gets screwed over by fast hard hittidone in by fast, strong Electric-types such as Zapdos, Rotom-W, and Thundurus. Rotom-W checks Empoleon very well as it resists all of Empoleon's moves and takes very little from Grass Knot and can hit back pretty hard with Thunderbolt. Fighting-types such as Hitmontop and Hitmonlee, can use priority attacks like Mach Punch or just Close Combat to severely damage Empoleon. Gastrodon can sponge almost all of Empoleon's hits if it lacks Hidden Power Grass or Grass Knot. Most common sand abusers can hurt Empoleon with powerful and quick Earthquakes to deal a lot of damage, potentially KOing Empoleon.</p>


    Copy/Pastable (open)

    [Overview]
    <p>Back in the days before the 5th Generation and the year of the Ubers, Empoleon had some wide usage in VGC. While its typing let it resist lots of moves, Empoleon gets hit fairly hard by common moves such as Earthquake, Close Combat, and Thunderbolt. However, with a nice Special Attacking stat along with bulky base defenses and low base Speed, Empoleon makes good use out of being under Trick Room to easily produce a sweep.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Supporter
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Icy Wind
    move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Grass Knot
    move 4: Protect
    item: Chople Berry / Wacan Berry
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Scald is the main STAB for the set as it's one of Empoleon's most reliable Water-type STABs with benefits. Icy Wind is a nice move that Empoleon has in its arsenal to help it take on more of a team supporting role by lowering the opponent's Speed and dealing damage at the same time. Hidden Power Grass gets most of its use by hitting things such as Gastrodon and Rotom-W, who otherwise wall almost anything Empoleon has. However, Grass Knot can hit others including Rhyperior and Swampert harder. Protect is a staple on almost anything in VGC. It can help stall, give protection for that turn, and help mess with the opponent's predictions on who to attack the next turn.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>With the prevalent use of Fighting-types in this metagame, Chople Berry helps Empoleon tank even the strongest Fighting-type attack. Wacan Berry is another choice with the common use of Pokemon like Rotom-W, Zapdos, and Thundurus roaming about with hard hitting moves, and Wacan Berry lets Empoleon survive these. Both berries also leave Empoleon at enough HP to have Torrent activate, strengthening Scald. As mentioned before, Torrent is a far superior ability for Empoleon over Defiant. A Calm nature gives Empoleon slightly more special bulk, allowing it to survive an Electric Gem-boosted Thunder from Zapdos with Wacan Berry as well as other special attacking moves. Full HP investment lets Empoleon survive lots of attacks and last longer to utilize Icy Wind more and more. Full Special Attack investment ensures it still hits hard while being a decent supporter.</p>

    <p>Rain support is cool to boost Empoleon's main STAB and to be in control of the dominating weather on the field. Empoleon can pair well with slower hard hitting Pokemon that enjoy facing opponents with lowered Speed from Icy Wind support, namely Hydreigon, Chandelure, and Rotom-A; all can be big threats but are often slower than major foes such as Latios or Garchomp. Tornadus and Crobat make good partners as they prevent Fighting-types on the field from causing a big problem for Empoleon with their Flying Gem-boosted Acrobatics.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Trick Room Attacker
    move 1: Scald / Hydro Pump
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Grass Knot / Hidden Power Flying
    move 4: Protect
    item: Absorb Bulb
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Quiet
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
    iv: 2 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Scald is the main STAB option on the set. It deals some good damage and has a slight chance to burn the opponent, which may come in handy when hitting physical attackers. Hydro Pump is the other option as it is stronger, but has a higher chance to miss, which may be crucial in some games. Ice Beam gives coverage over many things that threaten Empoleon, such as Garchomp, Zapdos, and Thundurus, who can all use their respective STAB moves to deal heavy damage to Empoleon. Grass Knot hits fellow Water-types, such as Gastrodon and Swampert. Hidden Power Flying gives you excellent coverage to hit Fighting-typed threats, like Hitmontop and Toxicroak. Protect is a staple move for any Pokemon in VGC. It can do great things during a match like stall burns, prevent a turn from being wasted due to Fake Out, or just keep Empoleon safe from harm while it's partner takes out threats.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>To maximize the attacking output of Empoleon, Life Orb is the item of choice for it. However, Chople Berry can be an alternative option as a lot of the time, Life Orb is already used up on the majority of Trick Room teams. Chople Berry can help Empoleon tank the common Fighting-types in metagame like Scrafty and Hariyama. Torrent is the best ability for Empoleon having more practical uses over Defiant, since Empoleon is a better Special Attacker. Quiet nature maximizes Empoleon's Special Attack and decreases its Speed for better Trick Room use. Empoleon has decent base defenses, but a somewhat low HP stat of 84, so with full investment Empoleon becomes harder to OHKO with moves such as Earthquake from Garchomp and Mamoswine. A Speed IV of 2 in conjunction with the right IVs in the other stats allows Empoleon to get maximum power on Hidden Power Flying while being as slow as possible for Trick Room. Aqua Jet could be used to finish off weakened opponents. Hidden Power Grass is an option to use over Grass Knot to be able to hit things like Gastrodon, Rotom-W, and Quagsire harder. If you do use this as an option, a Speed IV of 3 along with the other IVs matching in the right field will make a Grass-type Hidden Power. Surf can be used as the main Water-type STAB for Empoleon, but should only be used with partners immune to Surf such as Gastrodon so you don't have to waste a moveslot with Protect on your partner when using it.</p>

    <p>Pokemon who work well at setting up Trick Room pair very well with Empoleon as they can set Trick Room for Empoleon to wreck the rest of the team. Other Pokemon who work well under Trick Room that have Lightningrod, such as Marowak and Seaking, are excellent partners for Empoleon, as they prevent foes like Zapdos and Thundurus from being huge threats. Empoleon's counters mostly consist of common VGC physical attackers, such as Hitmontop, Garchomp and Excadrill, as they can all hit Empoleon for super effective damage. Prankster Sableye is a good partner, as it can use Will-O-Wisp and the combination of Trick and Lagging Tail to stop these kinds of threats that may KO Empoleon. Politoed makes a good partner with the ability to set rain and increase the power of Empoleon's main STAB.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Hidden Power Fighting can hit both Ferrothorn and Abomasnow super effectively, regardless of weather. Hidden Power Fire can also hit both of these but fails while it is raining. FeatherDance can lower the Attack of physical attackers, making it harder for them to KO Empoleon. The same principle is applied when using Iron Defense to boost your own Defense to take hits better. Blizzard can be used over Ice Beam if Empoleon is paired with Abomasnow. Flash Cannon is a useful STAB move, but only gives extra coverage on Ice-types like Abomasnow and Glaceon. Empoleon's only other ability is Defiant, which it gets from the Dream World. Its Attack stat is somewhat decent, but the only time you would see Attack boosts from this ability would be in the face of Intimidate users. This could help Empoleon beat Intimidate Hitmontop, but it can fail a lot if not played correctly. Empoleon could abuse Absorb Bulb on an offensive set, as it resists Water-types and can somewhat easily collect boosts.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Unless Empoleon somehow finds a way to stop Electric-type attacks from hurting it through team support, Empoleon gets done in by fast, strong Electric-types such as Zapdos, Rotom-W, and Thundurus. Rotom-W checks Empoleon very well as it resists all of Empoleon's moves and takes very little from Grass Knot and can hit back pretty hard with Thunderbolt. Fighting-types such as Hitmontop and Hitmonlee, can use priority attacks like Mach Punch or just Close Combat to severely damage Empoleon. Gastrodon can sponge almost all of Empoleon's hits if it lacks Hidden Power Grass or Grass Knot. Most common sand abusers can hurt Empoleon with powerful and quick Earthquakes to deal a lot of damage, potentially KOing Empoleon.</p>
  19. Biosci

    Biosci !
    is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a VGC3 Winner

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,470
    Thank you for the check, this is now done
  20. Komodo

    Komodo I have a custom title?
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2008
    Messages:
    4,008
    uploaded

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)