Encore

[LonelyNess]

As of now, Encore is improperly implimented on Shoddybattle. At the moment, if a faster Encorer forces you to run out of PP and continues to Encore, you struggle. In game you do not struggle, but rather the Encore just ends.

If Torment can be banned until it's fixed and properly implimented, I see no reason why Encore shouldn't be as well. So that's what I suggest, Encore should be banned outright until it is properly implimented.

 

[Cathy]

Since this is actually about the policy question of whether Encore should be banned on Smogon's ladders, and not really about something in Shoddy Battle (the bug is known and is on the bug tracker; it is also unlikely it will ever be fixed in Shoddy Battle 1 unless Doug does it), I've moved it to Policy Review.

I do not have an opinion on the actual policy question myself however.

 

[Hipmonlee]

I think there are some big differences here. Torment was being used basically because it was glitched and for no other reason, encore is being used as it would normally be used, but not flawlessly.

Secondly torment was just more broken, This glitch will only affect encore users extremely situationally. Perhaps it is worse in ubers with wobbuffet, but generally. With simulators there is always a point where near enough is good enough, I think that that is the case this time.

Have a nice day.

 

[LonelyNess]

If there were a way to avoid this glitch then I think that there would be an argument for not banning it. Just simply "do not abuse this glitch." But because there is no way to stop your Encore from going on so long that it runs your out of PP and forces them to struggle, it should be banned just like Torment. We shouldn't be making special cases for Encore just because it's actually competitively useful. Both moves are incorrectly implimented, and both glitches are unavoidable.

At the very least, a ban to the effect of "If you force your opponent to struggle via Encore, you lose" should be in place because no one should be benefitting from this glitch.

(also it happens more often than you'd think in UU where Umbreon is an apt Trap Passer and the ability to Encore that trapped Pokemon is more readily available)

 

[Syberia]

Although it doesn't matter now largely because Wobbuffet (the only Encore user that people don't switch immediately against) is uber, this was a big issue back when it was being tested in OU, as it was basically a free kill vs. anything slower that didn't use an attack on the switch-in turn.

However, in order to be consistent, it must be banned or fixed. Or Torment must be re-implemented.

 

[Philip7086]

I hate when things are made so black and white like this. Yes, it would make sense to ban Encore to maintain consistency (referring of course to the Torment ban). But the negative effects of the glitch are so situational; does it really merit the elimination of an otherwise completely legitimate and potent strategy? The Torment glitch, on the other hand, was easily exploitable from turn one, assuming you were faster than your opponent. Trust me, I would know how easy it was to abuse Torment Tran (my best team at the time had Torment Tran, before I knew it was actually a glitch).

I think that a ban of glitched moves should not be implemented on precedent alone. Instead, perhaps a cost-benefit analysis should be implemented to gauge if something is really worth banning pending a fix or not. In this case, I really do not think banning the move completely is a good solution, after considering how situational the glitch really is, compared to how useful the move is in the competitive environment.

 

[Hipmonlee]

If we going to maintain consistency like that. Pursuit would have to be banned because it doesnt work properly in conjunction with weather. Sub would have been banned in advance because it blocked rapid spin.

I dont know all of the glitches in shoddy, but I assume that if we banned all of them, then we wouldnt have a lot of moves to choose from.

Furthermore, I recommend battling to the server you have. Even though encore is glitched, you might as well exploit it.. You will have to accept that other people will exploit it (whether by ignorance or with intent).

Have a nice day.

 

[Syberia]

I believe Doug fixed the move earlier this morning, so this is irrelevant now

 

[LonelyNess]

No longer an issue.