Entei Discussion

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Wow. Entei in RU. A tier dominated by bugs. Entei has already been hailed as the ultimate anti-meta Pokemon, beating both Ice and, crucially, Bug. And there are only two common counters to it - Rhyperior and Blastoise - both of which can be dealt with using specially-oriented sets. Its only drawback is that it basically cannot switch in to an attack whatsoever.

ENTEI


Base Stats:

HP: 115
Attack: 115
Defense: 85
Special Attack: 90
Special Defense: 75
Speed: 100

Notable Moves:
Bulldoze
Calm Mind
Eruption
Extrasensory
ExtremeSpeed
Fire Blast
Flame Charge
Flamethrower
Flare Blitz
Hidden Power
Iron Head
Protect
Rest
Reflect
Shadow Ball
SolarBeam
Stone Edge
Substitute
Sunny Day
Toxic
Will-O-Wisp

I have compiled a list of Entei movesets:

Physical

Physical Sweeper

Entei @ Life Orb
Nature: Adamant
EV: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Flare Blitz
ExtremeSpeed
Stone Edge
Howl/Iron Head/Bulldoze

Shinfu Entei
Entei @ Choice Band
Nature: Adamant
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Flare Blitz
Stone Edge
Extremespeed
Iron Head

Dedicated Blitzer
Entei @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Adamant
252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spe
Flare Blitz
Extremespeed
Stone Edge
Iron Head

This is basically the perfect set for Flare Blitz and nothing else. The scarf counters the lack of speed EVs.

Flame Charge
Entei @ Life Orb
Ability: Adamant
EV: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Flame Charge
Flare Blitz
Stone Edge
Howl

Special

False Reuniclus
Entei @ Leftovers/Chesto Berry
Nature:Bold/Timid
EVs: Depending on interests, it is a split between HP, Def and Spe. The two best ones it seems are 252/0/4/0/0/252 and 128/0/128/0/0/252.
Calm Mind
Fire Blast
Extrasensory
Rest/Solarbeam/HP Grass

To get you back to sanity, here's a more commonly thought of set:

Special Sweeper
Entei @ Life Or/Heat Rock Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Fire Blast
- Sunny Day/Stone Edge
- SolarBeam/HP Grass

No explanation required. If you are not running sun, substitute Stone Edge and HP Grass. If you have a different sun maker, use Solarbeam and SE.

CroTei
Entei @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Calm Mind
- Fire Blast

Blastoise Checker
Entei @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- HP Grass
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Fire Blast
 
SubCM can work really well vs clefable with Seismic toss.

Entei @ Leftovers
EVs: 136 HP / 120 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Flamethrower/Lava Plume
- Hp Grass / Roar
 

Agonist

how can I feel existential dread, it's my fear
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
HP Grass says hi to Quagsire. And isn't Gastrodon going to be OU anyhow?
 
1. Look, lets face it. All you see are the first two sets. Not saying Special Entei is bad, its just rare
2. You mentioned Rhyperior and Blastoise as main counters, and they're both going UU. So for right now, Gastrodon is a viable counter.
 
I really wouldn't combine the Scarf and Band sets, they both serve very different purposes, and deserve to be addressed accordingly :/ If anything the LO Physical and CB sets can be combined, doing essentially the same thing outside of the option of Howl on the LO set. On the Band set, Bulldoze really doesn't help him at all, even with a negative nature Hp Grass is more valuable for hitting Rhyperior and Quag. For the Flame Charge set I would reccomend placing Hp Grass and maybe Iron Head over Howl, as Quag and Rhyperior still manage to stop such a sweep cold, and Entei won't often find a chance to set up a Howl. As for your bulky CM set, I would say that Hp Grass definitely deserves mention over Extrasensory. Also, Solarbeam should really only be mentioned in other options, as it simply isn't reliable enough, especially on a set-up poke in a tier w/out perma-sun. For your mono-attacker, I feel that a simple 252 Hp/252 Def/4 SAtk spread would be ideal. Also, Fire Blast's PP makes it a shaky choice for such a self-standing poke, Lava Plume or Flamethrower should probably take the main options. I dunno about you, but if your first thought when you see Blastoise is "Let's go Entei!" then I think you may need to look into that real quick. Use Twannes' set, it's basically the ideal spread for a midrange CM Entei. Otherwise, good luck, and I hope I was of assistance. Cheers
 
I find it strange that the choice sets have no speed investment.

252 EVs in Att adn Spe make much more sense(it's fast enough and extreme speed takes care of pokemon that are faster then Entei), Adamant because Flare Blitz and Extreme Speed is only legal with that nature.

Bulldoze is completely useless on Entei, you're better off running something like Sleep talk or Toxic.

Iron Head has a Niche for taking out Rhyperior by hax flinch if it's not low on HP, but I rarely ever use it, so I generally just slap on sleep talk on my entei as a sleep absorber, especially against Venemoth and Lilligant expecting to take out 1 of it's counters only to be rudely attacked by Sleep talk.

Well Entei has a poor move pool so sleep talk is very viable.
 
Quagsire and Gastrodon are never seen in RU - I'm assuming they are higher tiers. You mention Blastoise and Rhyperior going to UU - you mean through usage stats or suspecting? Qwilfish on the other hand is an excellent counter for Entei, although it doesn't do anything else apart from Toxic Spikes. Qwilfish itself's best counter is probably Amoonguss - takes away toxic spikes and is also a grass type.

Separated band and scarf sets. SubCM is there under "Blastoise Checker".
 
Okay, BLASTOISE IS GONE! *celebration*. I think Entei will spike at this point, seeing as its main counter is gone. If it's still there, remember SubCMHPGrass, a set I call "the Flaming Kingdra". Think SubDD.
 
Okay, BLASTOISE IS GONE! *celebration*. I think Entei will spike at this point, seeing as its main counter is gone. If it's still there, remember SubCMHPGrass, a set I call "the Flaming Kingdra". Think SubDD.
Isn't comparing SubCM Entei to SubDD Kindgra sort of like comparing CM Virizion to say, I dunno, SD/RP Terrakion? The only shared aspects are that they both use Substitute and a set-up move, the playstyles are almost entirely different.
 
Alomomola is still a good counter to Entei. It has some problems with SubCM, but its usually a good switch in.
 

Molk

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is there anyone that runs hp grass on the physical sweeper set in the last slot? even with a hindering nature it can cripple pokes that would normally wall entei pretty badly, 2hkoing most of them. targets include.

Gastrodon
Kabutops
Omastar
Quagsire

pretty much any water/ground or anything 4x weak to grass.

it actually has some utility on entei, and it has saved me several times.
 
is there anyone that runs hp grass on the physical sweeper set in the last slot? even with a hindering nature it can cripple pokes that would normally wall entei pretty badly, 2hkoing most of them. targets include.

Gastrodon
Kabutops
Omastar
Quagsire

pretty much any water/ground or anything 4x weak to grass.

it actually has some utility on entei, and it has saved me several times.
"Raises Hand up" Me though I use it for UU matches but problem is
Water, Ground types aren't used much but I see were your going with this.
 
I've only mentioned the value of Hp Grass on Entei approximately a bajillion times, but ok then .-. Nah, I don't care honestly, as long as it isn't getting straight-up shafted because you have to run Adamant I'm happy :P
 
Crotei shoud have Flamethrower > Fire Blast. The point is to stall as much as possible then sweep, and when you'll only have 8 turns to actually dish out damage, added to the fact it has that damn miss chance makes Flamethrower superior in every way. The Sp. Def EV's should be moved to Def, so when a physical attacker with Stone Edge/ EQ comes in you're not mowed over.
 
CroTei should actually have Lava Plume for the burn rate.

HP Grass? Anything that does NOT 1HKO something with a 4x attack is useless. In this case, HP Grass on Entei. It's a staple on any non-Crown set, but with Blitz... then it's bad. But then again, Crown Entei suffers from three-move syndrome.
 
Normally, I'd object to the OP's "cannot switch into an attack whatsoever" claim; 115/85/75 is pretty damn bulky. Then again, it's a Fire-type with a Stealth Rock weakness and no reliable recovery.

With all the Bugs around, I wonder if a Talkless Rest set is any good. Something like this:

Bold / Leftovers / Pressure
- Calm Mind
- Flamethrower / Lava Plume
- Hidden Power Grass
- Rest
252 HP / 252 Defense / 6 Sp. Defense
 
HP Grass? Anything that does NOT 1HKO something with a 4x attack is useless.
I like how that's completely false. If you've ever actually played Entei, you know stuff like Omastar and Quagsire (no more Gastrdon ;~;) switch into it all the time, expecting the ESpeed or Flare BLitz, which both take with ease. However, when they do, you hit them with an HP Grass, meaning that they switch out and come back later with half health, unable to check you any more, or they die. Its a lot better than the slow whittling down of walls Toxic gives you. And honestly, the only poke I can think that's hit with Iron Head better than you're other moves is... nothing. I really can't think of anything.
 
I like how that's completely false. If you've ever actually played Entei, you know stuff like Omastar and Quagsire (no more Gastrdon ;~;) switch into it all the time, expecting the ESpeed or Flare BLitz, which both take with ease. However, when they do, you hit them with an HP Grass, meaning that they switch out and come back later with half health, unable to check you any more, or they die. Its a lot better than the slow whittling down of walls Toxic gives you. And honestly, the only poke I can think that's hit with Iron Head better than you're other moves is... nothing. I really can't think of anything.
Macargo, I win :3

...but seriously, I totally agree with everything in this post

Edit: Gastrodon <3 forever and always
 
SubCM is the best set IMHO. Everything else Entei does gets walled to hell and back by bulky waters. I'm also surprised no one has mentioned Slowking, since he's probably the best defensive water type in RU.
 

Molk

Godlike Usmash
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SubCM is the best set IMHO. Everything else Entei does gets walled to hell and back by bulky waters. I'm also surprised no one has mentioned Slowking, since he's probably the best defensive water type in RU.
with Hp grass, entei can get past certain bulky waters, but seriously ive faced subcm sets and it probably is one of the better sets at least imo.
 
SubCM is indeed one of the better special sets. Even with Life Orb special (Fire Blast, Calm Mind, HP Grass, Extrasensory), HP Grass can get past waters, which, conveniently, are mostly doubly weak to grass in this tier (Omastar, Quagsire, etc.). Rhyperior, another common switch-in to Entei, also has this weakness. Extrasensory is there solely to get rid of Qwilfish and the numerous Fighting types of the tier.

On the other hand, none of this can be effectively used in a physical set. The closest Entei can come to physical Qwilfish countering is the low-power Bulldoze and the extremely risky Dig. Neither are recommended!

So, anyway, if you are running anything without Flare Blitz and Extremespeed, then HP Grass is vital. If not, then it might be an amusing way to fill up the dreaded fourth slot, but it won't really do much damage to anything except possibly Kabutops.

Also, @Sharking, you may have made a set where Entei suffers from four move syndrome (needs five moves), as opposed to three move syndrome (only has three decent moves physically) like it normally does. For that, I congratulate you *gives out the Homusubi Award for Creative Entei Usage to SharKing*. Truly, it needs five moves - maybe use Chesto Berry, or skip Calm Mind. Maybe even skip the STAB and just make it a surprise HP Grass resttalker.
 

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