Entei (Update)

[shrang]

Edits that have occured:
- Removed "Standard" set, completely outclassed by Arcanine
- Renamed "Mixed" set to "Mixed Calm Minder"
- Renamed "Solarbeam" to "Sunnybeamer" (Not much, but I think it sounds better)
- Removed "Special Choice" set, it is outclassed by Typhlosion who has a more powerful Eruption, better movepool and everything
- Renamed "Calm Mind" to "SubCM"
- Added "Calm Mind + RestTalk" set.
- Changed physical set.

So I've finished writing, now time for GP Checks. The physical set is written by Heysup, so credits to him (although I added a few lines).

QC - 2/2, GP - 1/2

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/entei

[Overview]

<p>Like many Fire-types, Entei is a Pokemon who boasts great all-round stats, but has them distributed rather poorly. The fact that its movepool is horrible doesn't help it either. Even with the release of Movie 10's event moves, Entei still faces tough competition from Arcanine. However, while Entei appears to be shallow, it still can fill niches that no other Pokemon can. It is the only Pokemon in UU outside of Dunsparce and Drifblim who can set up 101 HP Substitutes and use Calm Mind, making it a deadly special sweeper, while its access to Stone Edge differentiates Entei from Arcanine as a physical attacker. Overall, it is still a force to be reckoned with, so one must never write off Entei too hastily.</p>

[SET]
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Stone Edge
move 3: ExtremeSpeed
move 4: Hidden Power Grass
item: Life Orb / Choice Band
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set aims to take advantage of Entei's excellent Attack stat and powerful STAB Flare Blitz. At first glance, Arcanine might seem like a better choice for this role, but Entei has higher Attack and Speed than Adamant Arcanine. Entei also has Stone Edge as a coverage move to nail opposing Fire-types for super effective damage, allowing it to OHKO a large portion of its common switch-ins. Entei's ExtremeSpeed is very powerful, and makes a great late-game sweeping tool. Hidden Power Grass rounds off Entei's coverage by hitting Rhyperior, Kabutops, and Omastar for heavy damage. Entei also has excellent bulk for a Fire-type, meaning it can switch in quite easily on resisted or neutral hits.</p>

[ADDITONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Life Orb is the preferred item, since it grants Entei a boost in power while still allowing it to switch attacks. However, Choice Band can be used for even more power. With a Choice Band attached, Entei can 2HKO max HP / 0 Def Slowking after Stealth Rock damage with Flare Blitz, as well as having a slight chance to 2HKO max HP / 200 Def Milotic after Stealth Rock and Spikes damage. Choice Band also allows Entei to OHKO Alakazam with ExtremeSpeed after Stealth Rock damage, while with Life Orb, this is not guaranteed. There are a few other moves Entei can use in the last slot. Iron Head can be used to hit Rock-types if one wants Entei's moveset to stay physical, while Howl can be used to boost Entei's Attack, enabling it to attempt a sweep.</p>

<p>Entei is a hard Pokemon to stop later in the game, but in order to reach that point, Entei requires some support from its teammates. Since Milotic and Slowbro are essentially the only safe switch-ins to Entei, it makes sense to use Pokemon such as SubToxic Azumarill, Swords Dance Kabutops, and Swords Dance Blaziken. If the aforementioned bulky Water-types surprise Entei and switch in, having a Grass-type to take the subsequent Surf is definitely a good idea. Venusaur is an excellent candidate since it has high Special Defense and can devastate opposing Pokemon with Leaf Storm, Sludge Bomb, and Sleep Powder. Miltank is also a problem, albeit not a common one. Rhyperior makes a great switch-in for Miltank, as it resists the cow's STAB attacks, doesn't care about paralysis, and can cause major damage to the switch-in. Rhyperior also lures Milotic and deals heavy damage to it with Choice Band or Life Orb-boosted STAB attacks, allowing Entei to finish it off afterwards.</p>

[SET]
name: SubCM
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Calm Mind
move 3: Flamethrower / Fire Blast
move 4: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 136 HP / 156 SpA / 216 Spe
ivs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Apart from Dunsparce (who is subpar) and Drifblim (who doesn’t need 101 HP Substitutes), Entei remains the only Pokemon available in UU who can both set up 101 HP Substitutes and effectively use Calm Mind. This allows it set up multiple Calm Minds on Chansey, UU’s premier special wall. The idea is very simple: come in on a Pokemon whom Entei can force out, create a Substitute as the opponent switches out, and proceed to set up with Calm Mind. With boosted Special Defense, Entei can even set up on bulky Water-types, with the exceptions of Haze Milotic and Azumarill, by continuing to boost its stats using Calm Mind, setting up Substitute, then eventually taking them down. The Hidden Power of choice allows Entei to hit bulky Water-types for super effective damage. Without a good counter, this set can be especially hard for stall teams to face since Entei can use its bulk to continuously accumulate boosts while the opponent watches in vain.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs presented allow Entei to make 101 HP Substitutes while being able to switch into Stealth Rock an additional time. The Speed EVs let Entei outspeed positive-natured base 95s such as Houndoom and Arcanine, while the rest are put into Special Attack to give Entei some power. Hidden Power Rock is also an option should one want Entei to hit other Fire-types super effectively, but Hidden Power Grass and Electric are preferred so Entei can beat bulky Waters, who otherwise would completely shut this set down.</p>

<p>Haze Milotic and Azumarill are easily the best counters to Entei. Blastoise can also take a boosted Hidden Power and Roar Entei away in a pinch. Rhyperior walls Entei if it is running Hidden Power Electric, while Fire-types give Entei trouble if it's utilizing Hidden Power Grass. Clefable with Encore also shuts down Entei quite easily. Due to all of this, Venusaur and Toxicroak are great partners for Entei. Venusaur can easily switch into bulky Water-types and use Sleep Powder or Leaf Storm to pierce holes in the opponent's team, while Toxicroak can switch into Water-types and threaten to sweep with Swords Dance or Nasty Plot. Tangrowth and Milotic are decent checks to Rhyperior, while Milotic can also take on Fire-types. Dugtrio can also trap and KO many Fire-types who give Entei trouble. Since Entei is weak to Stealth Rock, Rapid Spin support is highly beneficial. Hitmontop is possibly the best Rapid Spinner to run alongside Entei, as it resists Rock-type moves aimed at Entei, and is neutral against to Water-type attacks. Blastoise can switch into bulky Water-types and pull off a Rapid Spin. Both Hitmontop and Blastoise can use Foresight and Rapid Spin to guarantee a Rapid Spin against an opposing spinblocker, unless the opponent uses two Ghost-types. Donphan can also be used as a Rapid Spinner; while it can't switch into Water-types, its sheer power allows it to defeat spinblockers more directly by using Earthquake or Head Smash.</p>

[SET]
name: Sunny Day
move 1: Sunny Day
move 2: Fire Blast / Flamethrower
move 3: Solarbeam
move 4: Calm Mind
item: Life Orb / Heat Rock
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set combines Entei's access to Calm Mind and the advantages sunny weather brings to Fire-types. The idea is to switch Entei into a Pokemon it can force out, then set up a Calm Mind, appearing as an ordinary Calm Minder. If the opponent switches in a bulky Water-type, such as Milotic, Entei should then use Sunny Day to weaken Water-type attacks. In the sun, Milotic's Surf only does 23.18% - 28.03% to +1 Entei, while +1 Solarbeam will easily 2HKO Milotic in return. With the opponent's bulky Water-type destroyed, Entei can then continue to devastate the opponent's team with Calm Mind and sun-boosted STAB attacks, making Entei extremely hard to wall without the use of Flash Fire Pokemon. Entei's +1 Fire Blast is so powerful that it can even 2HKO Chansey after Stealth Rock damage in the sun.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>If Fire-types such as Moltres and Houndoom are bothersome to you, Stone Edge can be used instead of Calm Mind. Calm Mind is still preferred due to the additional power it grants Entei, though. Should one use this set on a Sunny Day team, Heat Rock is also an option for Entei to support the team more; be aware, however, that Entei itself will lose a great deal of power without Life Orb.</p>

<p>Flash Fire Pokemon make Entei's life extremely difficult, especially Arcanine. After a Flash Fire boost, Arcanine's Flare Blitz in the sun will maim pretty much any Pokemon, while Entei cannot hurt Arcanine much in return. When using this set, one should scout out the opponent's team for Flash Fire Pokemon before throwing around Fire-type attacks indiscriminately. Dugtrio can trap and remove Houndoom and Ninetales, while Rhyperior is a decent counter to Arcanine.</p>

<p>Since Entei lures in bulky Water-types like moths to a flame, Pokemon who can take advantage of weakened bulky Water-types make great teammates for Entei. Rock Polish Rhyperior, Dragon Dance Feraligatr, and Choice Band Arcanine can easily devastate the opponent's team once their bulky Water-type has been removed. Rapid Spin support also helps Entei immensely, since it loses 25% of its health every time it switches into Stealth Rock, and with Life Orb equipped, Entei will lose health quickly just to residual damage. Pokemon such as Blastoise and Hitmontop are good choices to provide this.</p>

[SET]
name: Mixed Calm Minder
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Fire Blast / Flamethrower
move 3: Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Stone Edge
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
ivs: 30 HP / 30 Atk / 30 SpA

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set aims to take full advantage of Entei's great Speed stat, usable Special Attack stat, and access to Calm Mind. While one might compare Entei to Ninetales (who can utilize Nasty Plot and Energy Ball), Entei has much better bulk and access to Stone Edge, allowing it to deal with Fire-types. Even with an Attack-reducing nature, Stone Edge is still powerful enough to KO most Fire-types. As for Arcanine, if it has Intimidate, Entei should just Calm Mind up and attack it with boosted Fire-type attacks; if it has Flash Fire, Stone Edge will always score a 2HKO. Hidden Power Grass allows Entei to hurt Water- and Rock-types who resist Entei's STAB attacks and take little damage from Stone Edge.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Like for most offensive UU special attackers, Chansey walls this set. Specially defensive Clefable can also take its hits and use Encore or a status-inducing move to make Entei's life miserable. With Haze, Milotic can erase Special Attack boosts from Calm Mind and defeat Entei relatively easily. Azumarill ignores Entei's Special Defense boosts and deals massive damage with Aqua Jet. Dugtrio pairs quite well with Entei, as it can trap and remove Chansey with Beat Up. Hitmontop and Hitmonlee are also great teammates for Entei, since they can scare away Clefable and Chansey while using Rapid Spin to clear away Stealth Rock. As for Milotic and Azumarill, Venusaur and Toxicroak are excellent switch-ins to them, as Venusaur can cripple opposing Pokemon with its powerful STAB attacks or Sleep Powder, while Toxicroak can easily set up Swords Dance or Nasty Plot and proceed to sweep.</p>

[SET]
name: Calm Mind + RestTalk
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Lava Plume / Flamethrower
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set takes full advantage of Entei's excellent bulk and access to Calm Mind to become a sturdy mono-attacker. While this set is not very efficient against offensive teams, it is an excellent "win-condition" sweeper who can sweep opposing stall teams should its counter go down. With Calm Mind, Entei can eventually boost its Special Attack to the point where it is powerful enough to sweep, while Rest and Sleep Talk stop status afflictions, especially Toxic, from taking it down. Lava Plume complements this set perfectly, as it can potentially burn physical attackers who could bypass Entei's Special Defense boosts, crippling them and rendering them next-to-useless. Entei's ability, Pressure, also helps this set greatly, as it allows Entei to PP stall opposing Pokemon should the occasion arise.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>There are multiple ways to EV Entei. One can strive for a faster variant with 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 Spe to outspeed Venusaur, but the lost bulk is quite significant. Another way to EV Entei is to utilize a spread of 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe, which enables Entei to outspeed Adamant Absol. Lava Plume is the preferred attack since it has a better burn rate, but Flamethrower can be used in its place to guarantee a 2HKO on Chansey at +6 (should Entei strike a critical hit).</p>

<p>Like most mono-attackers, Entei can be stopped by a lot of Pokemon. Clefable can shut Entei down with Encore, while Haze Milotic removes Entei's Calm Mind boosts. Azumarill and Feraligatr, should they avoid getting burned by Lava Plume, can use Waterfall to deal massive damage to Entei. Trick, Encore, Perish Song, and Curse from a Ghost-type like Spiritomb can all ruin Entei. Rhyperior can switch in with relative safety (though it must beware of a Lava Plume burn) and destroy Entei with Stone Edge or Earthquake. For this reason, Fighting-types such as Hitmontop and Hitmonlee are great partners, as they can easily scare away Clefable and remove Stealth Rock with Rapid Spin. Choice Band Spiritomb can absorb Trick from most Psychic- and Ghost-types, and remove them from the battle by using Pursuit. Venusaur and Toxicroak are again good switch-ins to Milotic and Azumarill. A Tangrowth or Milotic of your own can also deal with Feraligatr nicely.</p>

[Team Options]

<p>Like all Pokemon weak to Stealth Rock, Entei appreciates Rapid Spin support. Hitmontop is possibly the best Rapid Spinner to run alongside Entei, since it resists Rock-type attacks and is not weak to Water-type moves. Hitmontop can reliably use Foresight and Rapid Spin to spin away entry hazards, while scaring away Chansey and Clefable, two Pokemon who give Entei problems, at the prospect of its STAB Fighting-type attacks. Hitmonlee and Hitmonchan can do a similar job, if one wants more power. Blastoise can switch into bulky Water-types and use Foresight and Rapid Spin to remove hazards. Donphan, although weak to Water-type moves, can also serve as a reliable spinner. Like all offensive Pokemon, Entei appreciates entry hazards of its own. Omastar can set up all three types of entry hazards while luring Grass-type attacks for Entei to switch into. Uxie and Mesprit are also reliable users of Stealth Rock.</p>

<p>Since bulky Water-types such as Haze Milotic and Azumarill give Entei problems, Venusaur and Toxicroak make excellent teammates to Entei. Venusaur can switch into most bulky Water-types and threaten to wreak havoc with its powerful STAB moves and Sleep Powder. Toxicroak can use the free switch-in to set up with either Swords Dance or Nasty Plot. Dugtrio also makes a good partner to Entei since it can remove most Pokemon with Flash Fire, such as Houndoom, Ninetales, and some Arcanine. It can also trap and KO Chansey with Beat Up. Rhyperior is also a good Arcanine counter, capable of smashing it into the dust with its powerful STAB attacks.</p>

[Optional Changes]

<p>Entei's movepool is small, so it does not have many other options at its disposal. It is one of the select few Pokemon who have access to Eruption, so running a Choice Specs or Choice Scarf set is not a bad idea, although Typhlosion is better at this in nearly every aspect, boasting the same Speed but higher Special Attack and a wider movepool. Will-O-Wisp is an option that can be used to cripple various Pokemon. Roar can be used as a decent pseudo-hazing move, while Reflect is also available to boost Entei's Defense.

[Counters]

<p>Haze Milotic is easily Entei's number one counter. With Haze, it can remove Calm Mind boosts and threaten Entei with a full-powered STAB Surf. It also has enough bulk to take whatever attack physical Entei tries to throw at it. Azumarill can take on most specially-based sets Entei runs by bypassing Calm Mind, while Slowbro utterly walls any physical set. Blastoise can also switch into most Entei, and specially-based sets can easily be Roared away in a pinch. Clefable shuts down most special Entei with Encore and its good special bulk, while Chansey walls the mixed set and the Sunny Day set to an extent. Pokemon with Flash Fire can defeat any special attacking set that lacks Stone Edge. Depending on the Hidden Power used, Substitute + Calm Mind Entei will run into trouble against either Rhyperior and Lanturn if it is running Hidden Power Electric, or Fire-types if it is using Hidden Power Grass.</p>

 

[RaikouLover]

Entei is cool!

To be honest, Lava Plume I've always found to be shitty. Its the old Discharge vs. Thunderbolt on CM Raikou kinda thing. Since your going for a sweep, just go for the stronger option. I would probably do Flamethrower / Fire Blast rather than Flamethrower / Lava Plump. 30% chance isn't high enough to warrant the massive power drop...

Also, for the Calm SunnyBeamer, Stone Edge isn't even needed. Go with Calm Mind always. A +1 Fire Blast in the sun just fucking nukes shit. EDIT: I forget about Flash Fire Houndoom (suck a dick). Other things like Moltres though you can just Calm Mind up and power through easily.

+1 LO FireBlast in Sun does 48% minimum to Chansey, have a nice day.

 

[FlareBlitz]

Not sure how viable the RestTalk set is with Flash Fire users being so common. And there's also Dugtrio and Haze Milotic; at least Milotic would never switch into RestTalk Kou.

I'm not seeing how the sunny beamer is better than CM Ninetales (who has the same speed, slightly lower special attack, but much better bulk, a better ability, etc). Agreeing that stone edge shouldn't have a slash on there, Houndoom is going to trouble you, but you could just fire off +1 Solarbeams and hope to survive the +2 Dark Pulse with your +1 SDEF and evade the sucker punch. Stone Edge isn't worth losing the ability to beat Chansey and take even less damage from random surfs.

Not sure why the Mix CM set exists when running HP Rock does basically the same thing, except without a negative defense nature and a shitty hit rate. Explain the reasoning behind this please; I don't think the speed IV is worth all the crapiness that comes with having to run Fail Edge.

So basically, the SubCM set is fine, explain why the sunnybeamer set is better than Ninetales or Arcanine or Moltres and remove the stone edge slash, and be VERY convincing about why the MixCM set is better than just a CM set with HP Rock/Electric, or remove it.

 

[cim]

Only Flamethrower has a chance to beat Calm Chansey, so I don't even see Lava Plume as a slash. With FT it's not a guaranteed 2HKO but you can outstall wish chansey by burning Sub / Hidden Power PP on the Protect IIRC or go for the burn ironically

 

[M BLADE]

I can vouch for the Sleep Talk set effectiveness. I extensively used it and, despite being weak to common attacks, it is one of the bulkiest physical pokes i've yet used (while CM obviously correct the special side for you).
It's biggest trait is Lava Plume (it cripples the enemy and it's the perfect kind of status for this kind of set), so i say ditch Flamethrower out.

It has huge issues with Haze Milotic and Houndoom, but nothing a partner could correct if for you.
PS: Dugtrio won't KO Entei even after SR, so it's not a huge issue.

 

[Bologo]

- The only Pokemon in UU/NU apart from Dunsparce that can make 101 HP Subs and use Calm Mind, meaning it can use its massive Substitutes to set up on Chansey.

Drifblim can do this too, though I guess it's not as relevant since he's immune to Seismic Toss anyway.

 

[shrang]

Not sure how viable the RestTalk set is with Flash Fire users being so common. And there's also Dugtrio and Haze Milotic; at least Milotic would never switch into RestTalk Kou.

I have played around with it, it's not really that flashy, but then again, neither is CroCune or RestTalk Raikou. It's okay for a Stall team to use as a win condition sweeper, I guess.

I'm not seeing how the sunny beamer is better than CM Ninetales (who has the same speed, slightly lower special attack, but much better bulk, a better ability, etc). Agreeing that stone edge shouldn't have a slash on there, Houndoom is going to trouble you, but you could just fire off +1 Solarbeams and hope to survive the +2 Dark Pulse with your +1 SDEF and evade the sucker punch. Stone Edge isn't worth losing the ability to beat Chansey and take even less damage from random surfs.

Wait, how does Ninetales have better bulk?? 73/100 might be slightly better than 115/75 (Which isn't all that hard to fix with Calm Mind anyway), but physically, Ninetales doesn't come close. Basically, Entei has more attacking and staying power. Ninetales takes 106.62% - 125.44% from Azumarill's CB Aqua Jet while Entei can live one should it not be sunny. I can remove Stone Edge, I guess, it's just worth a mention if you really hate Flash Fire Pokes.

Not sure why the Mix CM set exists when running HP Rock does basically the same thing, except without a negative defense nature and a shitty hit rate. Explain the reasoning behind this please; I don't think the speed IV is worth all the crapiness that comes with having to run Fail Edge.

Speed IV is one thing, but Stone Edge also allows Entei to run HP Grass, allowing to take down weakened bulky Waters and Rhyperior.

So basically, the SubCM set is fine, explain why the sunnybeamer set is better than Ninetales or Arcanine or Moltres and remove the stone edge slash, and be VERY convincing about why the MixCM set is better than just a CM set with HP Rock/Electric, or remove it.

Uh ok.

 

[FlareBlitz]

Regarding RestTalk: Crocune works because there is exactly one viable water absorber in OU, which is not too common. There are three FF users in UU, two of which are extremely common. Also crocune has absurd bulk, excellent STAB, etc. etc. However, if other people vouch for it, I'd be fine with it going into the analysis, since I can certainly see how it would work well against some teams.

Regarding the sunnybeamer set...the criterion I use when evaluating things like Entei is "why is this non-standard pokemon equal to or better than the standard pokemon at the niches they typically occupy". For instance, if I was making a sunny day team for some reason, and I wanted a sunny beamer, I would use Arcanine. Arcanine has way better abilities, better special attack, and better mixed bulk if its ability is Intimidate and much better general utility if it's Flash Fire. Or I would use Moltres, which has better mixed bulk than Entei in general, much better special attack, a powerful secondary STAB for fire pokes, and reliable recovery. So why should I use Entei when those two Pokemon are available? This is what I would like you to address in your skeleton and your analysis, and that is what my implication was when I brought up Ninetales as an example (I used Ninetales because it is NU like Entei, but yeah it probably wasn't the best one).

Good call on the MixCM set though; I didn't notice you were using HP Grass (thought Entei got energy ball for some reason >_>). My apologies for that, it's fine as is, although you might experiment with some calcs and see if you really need Hasty. Entei's excellent physical bulk is wasted with a -DEF nature and you can't run -SDEF for obvious reasons. For example, even with Timid, I'm getting a solid ohko on Toxic Stall Moltres with Stone Edge, and a 2hko on the standard Morning Glory Arcanine, same as with Hasty. On the other hand things like Techtop have a much easier time revenging you with Hasty (Average Damage from Fake Out -> Mach Punch for Timid is 63%, for Hasty it's 71%). If you can find some significant kills it misses out on though, Hasty should stay, although Timid should probably still get a slash.

Make those changes if you can and I'll approve.

 

[M BLADE]

Regarding RestTalk: Crocune works because there is exactly one viable water absorber in OU, which is not too common. There are three FF users in UU, two of which are extremely common. Also crocune has absurd bulk, excellent STAB, etc. etc. However, if other people vouch for it, I'd be fine with it going into the analysis, since I can certainly see how it would work well against some teams.

The problem is that Arcanine can't break through Entei defenses, so it ends up getting PP stalled through Pressure, and it will serve as set up fodder for Entei.
Ninetales isn't that common; and Houndoom is just a prick, like always.
Crotei has huge bulk too for UU standards, and fire STAB is still a excellent one (boosted even further by Lava Plume burn rate).

Heh... i guess i always had good teammates for it: it almost never let me down. Even when you can't CM, you can still try and burn something.

 

[RaikouLover]

Regarding the sunnybeamer set...the criterion I use when evaluating things like Entei is "why is this non-standard pokemon equal to or better than the standard pokemon at the niches they typically occupy". For instance, if I was making a sunny day team for some reason, and I wanted a sunny beamer, I would use Arcanine. Arcanine has way better abilities, better special attack, and better mixed bulk if its ability is Intimidate and much better general utility if it's Flash Fire. Or I would use Moltres, which has better mixed bulk than Entei in general, much better special attack, a powerful secondary STAB for fire pokes, and reliable recovery. So why should I use Entei when those two Pokemon are available? This is what I would like you to address in your skeleton and your analysis, and that is what my implication was when I brought up Ninetales as an example (I used Ninetales because it is NU like Entei, but yeah it probably wasn't the best one).

Well aside from higher base speed Entei has Calm Mind.. which is why it used to be called the Calm Sunnybeamer. A +1 LO Entei Fire Blast 2HKO's Chansey in the sun.. being able to boost your stat makes you more of a threat. Just to give you an idea of its power.. a +1 LO Fire Blast in the sun does 97% minimum to Salamence, a resist.. Just to give you an idea of its power. I'm sure Moltres can do this.. but why are we bringing this up when Moltres has more of a Stealth Rock weakness to worry about?

Also, I'm strongly against Lava Plume on anything. Piss poor power and the burn rate isn't high enough to right home about. It's always let me down in situations where "at least I can burn it before switching out and taking 25% more SR damage..". 30% still sucks.

 

[FlareBlitz]

As you pointed out, Moltres can also pull off insane power, without taking a turn to boost; it can catch things on the switch with an insanely powerful Fire Blast, nearly as strong as Entei's boosted Fire Blast, without worrying about boosting and then being immediately forced out/killed by something like ScarfKen or Dugtrio. In addition, Moltres' SR weak is more than compensated for by its immediate and instant recovery in Roost.
Either way, that isn't even the point. The point is that all of this should be mentioned in the skeleton instead of just "it's a fire type that lures in bulky waters", something that could be said for literally any fire type that learns solarbeam. In an analysis you have to point out a pokemon's strengths and weaknesses relative to another Pokemon if they both occupy the same the same roles in a team, and under what circumstance you should use the one in the analysis.

 

[c l e a r]

Correct me if you are not allowed to have Event Moves on Shoddy, but I think Physical moves like FB and X-Speed should be considered for a nice Physical set.

 

[ck49]

They haven't been put on shoddy yet. Hopefully they will soon

 

[franky]

Yeah I was inspired to use Entei after reading this in the megathread and this thread a couple of days back. I ended up testing the sets you listed for the helluvit, and here are my two cents:

-the sub cm set is quite promising, though it often needs a consistent spinner + a reliable check to Haze Milotic. i'd like a slight mention on how this can work as a "lategame" sweeper pretty much due to the prominence of milotic and the asperity of pretty much "beating" Milotic. have it removed first, then bring entei out because from the set comments, it seems like you whip entei out early hoping to lure in milotic, then switching out to toxicroak. this gives the opponent the idea of preserving milotic, so it is better revealed later on in the match. venusaur is pretty much the epitome of good partner for this set to consistently check milotic. the lo special set with synthesis means that azumarill will never outsmart you and you can easily heal off damage, while still having the ability to smack shit for hard damage (lo leaf storm). toxicroak is great and all, but often dies to too many predicted ice beams.

-give 56 evs a mention to outpace adamant absol. this helps you strike it with plume or maybe a boosted flamethrower before it sets up or hits you with swords dance. the sacrfice isn't too much i hope, but from personal experience i'd like to aim for a nice speed point on these cro-pokemon. 96 spe evs is also needed for mention if you want to beat neutral venusaur. this pretty much ensures you hit it first before it places you to sleep. having a 100 base spe for a cro threat is good, so the options are for speed ev tweaking is pretty good.

-i'm all for removing the final two sets. the sunny beam set is quite poor and it really doesn't blow by its counters. lo doesn't register in shoddy i believe, though i could be mistaken. sunny beam only deals 43.3% - 50.9% to bold milotic, and if that is the true intention of the set then Milotic is still a counter. also with lo, it doesn't come close to ohko 56% - 66.2%. i'd rather accumulate cms and beat it with hp electric to be honest (if one lacks haze). you add the fact that the need to spin is almost required, this one is difficult to use.

-the last set is pretty pointless as it tries to do too much. spamming stone edge initiallywith minimal attack investment to get that lucky 2hko on arcanine is pretty much a bad idea. plus, hasty nature + extremespeed can beat you if you have taken prior damage. the only benefit i see from this is maybe surprising moltres, but again, spamming stone edge just to grab the ohko on arcanine is pretty bad. i'd mention it in optional changes at best.

2 cents

 

[RaikouLover]

-i'm all for removing the final two sets. the sunny beam set is quite poor and it really doesn't blow by its counters. lo doesn't register in shoddy i believe, though i could be mistaken. sunny beam only deals 43.3% - 50.9% to bold milotic, and if that is the true intention of the set then Milotic is still a counter. also with lo, it doesn't come close to ohko 56% - 66.2%. i'd rather accumulate cms and beat it with hp electric to be honest (if one lacks haze). you add the fact that the need to spin is almost required, this one is difficult to use.

What????? There must be an error in shoddy. Beause that is so wrong. It goes like this:

switched in Milotic
Entei used Sunny Day!
Entei used Calm Mind (+1/+1)
Milotic used Surf

Surf from Milotic to a +1 Entei does a MAXIMUM of 28% Damage in the Sun.

Entei used Solarbeam! (Damage : 83-98%)
Milotic hopefully doesn't faint!!!

Entei's +1 Solarbeam has a shot to OHKO with SR.. and that is a good shot. If Milotic Hazes instead of Surfing on Turn one, Solarbeam STILL is a 2HKO on Milotic. The best Milotic can do is come in, Haze turn 1 then Recover stall, but your playing with fire because at any point Entei can throw up a Calm Mind and you lose.

I don't even want to mention Slowbro or any other Water, since they are ALL OHKOed by this set. Also, Sunny Day really nerfs Azumarill's aqua jet.

So I don't see how this set is poor. It beats every Water pokemon, and 2HKO's Chansey in the sun at +1. The best counter for it is Houndoom, who you can set up a couple CMs on if you have to.

 

[shrang]

Okay, haven't touched this for a while, but I did my best to cater for the suggestions thrown at me. Changes made:

- Replaced Lava Plume on SubCM for Fire Blast
- Mentioned 56 Speed on CM RestTalk
- Kept Lava Plume as main option on CM RestTalk because it does compliment the rest of the set quite well, since it's more about tanking and not sweeping.
- Removed Stone Edge on Sunnybeamer set
- Removed Hasty nature from last 2 sets

 

[breh]

tested restalk, got amazing results and even a few ragequits... don't know aobut the competency of my opponents, but w/e

Trickband spiritomb is a great partner... survive w/e you opponent throws at you and give them a band; especially good if they switch into milo... also is not OHKOd by +2 houndoom; if you trick it a band it becomes (ironically) setup fodder, as +2 Fire Blast must waste 4 pp just killing tomb

Also you may wish to note that special venusaur (especially at -2) is very, very good setup fodder

EDIT: More testing has shown that it can set up rather easily if the opponent does not have milotic (who hits hard and can 3hko through the boosts; you cannot rest it off), Feraligatr (who hits on the weaker defense and can turn entei into setup fodder if it doesn't have enough boosts... should be wary of burn though), Azumarill (same as Feraligatr; most tend to use AJ not knowing how bulky it is though; even banded AJ doesn't do that much really), or Rhyperior (should be obviuos why; EQ or SE is either a OHKO or a 2HKO (too lazy to check xD)). Lanturn is fine though; CMs can be easy to set up on it due to far lower SpA (and often uninvested). Doesn't seem to mind SR all that much IMO. Must avoid trick too; entei does not enjoy having a choice item but can definitely make do if it's specs or scarf.

Seriously, Crotei is pretty cool.

 

[timetwister]

Having used a physical Entei on PO and Wi-Fi, I really think that the following set deserves to be on Entei's analysis page:

[SET]
name: Choice Band
Move 1: Flare Blitz
Move 2: ExtremeSpeed
Move 3: Stone Edge
Move 4: Iron Head / Return
Nature: Adamant
EV: 252 ATK / 4 SDEF / 252 SPE
Item: Choice Band


Note that an Adamant nature must be used for legality as the nature of the Event Entei is fixed. This is also a perfect draw for Entei's current counters, most expecting a special variant. Also, it has the benefit of OHKO'ing Jolly 4 HP Dugtrio with ExtremeSpeed.

Return is stronger than Iron Head, and the only things you lose neutral coverage on are Golem and Rhyperior, neither of which you should be staying in on anyway imo.

I appologize if this is not an appropriate post, but I figured that since someone was working on the entire Entei analysis, posting my own thread for this set would have been worthless.

 

[shrang]

Having used a physical Entei on PO and Wi-Fi, I really think that the following set deserves to be on Entei's analysis page:

[SET]
name: Choice Band
Move 1: Flare Blitz
Move 2: ExtremeSpeed
Move 3: Stone Edge
Move 4: Iron Head / Return
Nature: Adamant
EV: 252 ATK / 4 SDEF / 252 SPE
Item: Choice Band


Note that an Adamant nature must be used for legality as the nature of the Event Entei is fixed. This is also a perfect draw for Entei's current counters, most expecting a special variant. Also, it has the benefit of OHKO'ing Jolly 4 HP Dugtrio with ExtremeSpeed.

Return is stronger than Iron Head, and the only things you lose neutral coverage on are Golem and Rhyperior, neither of which you should be staying in on anyway imo.

I appologize if this is not an appropriate post, but I figured that since someone was working on the entire Entei analysis, posting my own thread for this set would have been worthless.

Event Entei isn't available on Shoddy yet, so technically I can't really include this yet. If you want to post experiences with physical Entei, I'd suggest going here for now: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75757

 

[Flashrider57]

Crotei is awesome! I actually just got swept by one, and then the guy told me about this QC. I'm pretty competent, but I was not prepared for Crotei. People need to test it more!

 

[shrang]

Any QC members want to take a look at this?? Should I add in physical Entei, or should I just leave that up to Heysup, who has a thread up already??

 

[Flashrider57]

I would wait until this passes QC, ask Heysup for permission to copy his set, then add it in this update with the rest of the sets. That's just my opinion, though. Plus, if you read his signature, it says that he's busy until the 21st.

By the way, about ResTalk Entei, you say that it can become "nigh-unkillable". It doesn't end well if an enemy knows Destiny Bond...

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Excuse me for commenting on a dusty update, but since CROWN Entei is up to play on Pokemon Online, would it be possible for you to add CROWN Entei's options onto the update, Flare Blitz and Extremespeed and to a lesser extent Howl? I mean, with the addition of SB2 and PO, it WOULD be better off to prepare with the update than let it gather dust. Like Raikou in OU; people are advocating Aura Sphere.

I can think of a few sets on the top of my head, although you have some competition with Entei:
Mixed Life Orb, Life Orb Physical, Choice Band, Howl sweeper...

 

[Heysup]

Those sets can be posted but, similar to my Life Orb set, will likely not be tested/approved because people just won't use PO....

 

[Chou Toshio]

Bumpin' because I frankly don't like the idea of a set not being listed just because it can't be used on shoddy. I understand Shoddy being the base for tiering, but why the heck should we make Shoddy the base for our Analysis? The Analysis is used by wifi players too (you know, the ones actually playing the game?). It's not like Event Entei is unconfirmed either.

I'm at an Elementary school in Japan right now. If you want, I'll go out and get it from a bunch of kids (not that I don't already have my own). These pokemon exist, therefore, are useable. If there's testing that shows it works, even from PO, frankly it should be on Analysis.

The event Entei sets are not frankly, probably allow for its best possible options now. It's crazy not to include it in Analysis really.