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OU Entei

Discussion in 'Preliminary Pokedex' started by Vertex, Dec 31, 2013.

  1. Vertex

    Vertex

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    • Alright, so before you get to the analysis, I would like to say that the AV set is pretty much garbage. The set is actually horrible against Mega Charizard Y because Earthquake Mega Charizard Y is getting really popular (as much as Dragon Pulse and Focus Blast now) and I've been seeing a few mixed sets lately too. The AV set's damage output is terrible with Extremespeed, which is probably the only reason why Entei is viable outside of Sacred Fire. It has to deal with being worn down by sand damage (Hippowdon is going up in usage) and the fact that most of the things it walls are either running a coverage move that does SE damage and/or Entei can't do poop to that fool. Seriously, its pretty good, but the advantages that the Choice Band set has over the AV set make it clearly superior.
    Code:
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    Grammar-Prose [Calm Pokemaster| horynhz]
    
    AM-Prose [TheManlyLadyBug | P2X7 | Magcargo 2]
    
    Overview
    ########
    Entei received a massive buff to its movepool with the transition to XY: Sacred Fire. A move commonly used to define Ho-Oh, Entei makes great use of this move due to its ability to burn common switch-ins such as Garchomp and Azumarill, usually crippling them for the rest of the match. Entei's access to Extreme Speed also allows it to be a powerful revenge killer and provides it a way to get past weakened checks such as Greninja and Latios. The buff to Defog and a new resistance to Fairy-type moves also make Entei's life much easier. Despite these positive traits, Entei suffers from being walled by Rotom-W, a very common Pokemon in OU. Entei also has to rely on mediocre coverage options such as Bulldoze, which means that it will often be setup bait for dangerous sweepers such as Mega Pinsir and Manaphy if a Choice Band is used. Entei's weaknesses to common Ground-, Rock-, and Water-type moves also make it vulnerable to threats such as Keldeo and Greninja. Even with the Defog buff, Entei is still weak to entry hazards, meaning that it can be worn down rather quickly. Remember to use Entei to its advantages, so it can be a powerful player on the battlefield.

    All-Out Attacker
    ########
    name: All-Out Attacker
    move 1: Sacred Fire
    move 2: Extreme Speed
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Bulldoze
    item: Choice Band / Life Orb
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    nature: Adamant

    Moves
    ========

    Sacred Fire is the main attack of the set; it has great power, can force switches, and burn common switch-ins such as Dragonite, Terrakion, Garchomp, and Tyranitar. Extreme Speed is another excellent move to use as it packs priority to combat checks such as Greninja and can outpace other priority moves such as Talonflame's Brave Bird. Finally, Stone Edge lets Entei deal decent damage to Rotom-W on the switch and demolish all the Fire-types which can easily tank a Sacred Fire bar Heatran. While Entei has great coverage with these three moves, it is still walled by Heatran; which is where Bulldoze comes in to OHKO it. However, beware of using Bulldoze, as being locked into it makes Entei setup bait for powerful sweepers such as Dragonite. Entei can use two interesting alternative moves: Hidden Power Grass and Howl. The former allows Entei to 2HKO Quagsire, which takes little damage from its other moves, but it has limited use outside of that. Howl, however, gives Entei sweeping capabilities, but it's inferior to Swords Dance Lucario as a sweeper, as Lucario also has Extreme Speed, but isn't walled as easily due to its better coverage.

    Set Details
    ========

    A Choice Band is the preferred item, as it gives Sacred Fire the raw power it needs to deal massive damage to the opposition. An Adamant nature should be used as any other nature is illegal with Extreme Speed, which is a mandatory move on Entei. A Life Orb can be used to switch between moves, but the recoil and the fact that Entei is using Sacred Fire most of the time makes it unappealing. However, with the ability to switch moves, Entei can avoid the need to predict and prevent itself from being set up bait. It also has the niche of beating Talonflame and Latios with a combination of Sacred Fire and Extreme Speed assuming they switch into Entei. Charcoal can also be used to feign Choice Band and boost the power of Sacred Fire without draining health like Life Orb does, although Entei will greatly miss a powered-up Extreme Speed and Stone Edge.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Clicking the 'Sacred Fire' button is the key to using Entei to its maximum potential. Sacred Fire is an amazing move, and whenever Entei gets a chance, it should use it to spread burns and deal massive damage to the opponent. Once everything is weakened late-game, Entei can sit back and use Extreme Speed to clean up the foe's team. Spreading burns is an important objective for Entei, but using Sacred Fire as a pseudo Will-O-Wisp can lead to Entei being KOed early game. In other words, don't use Sacred Fire deliberately against checks and counters hoping for a burn, as the burn chance is not guaranteed. Entei should also play as a hit-and-run attacker if using a Choice Band as Sacred Fire and its coverage moves will force it out easily after a powerful attack. Also, Entei should use its coverage moves only when needed as they often make it set up bait to dangerous sweepers.

    Team Options
    ========

    Pokemon that can set up multiple entry hazards, such as Skarmory and Deoxys-D, are amazing partners for Entei. For example, with Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes, Sacred Fire 2HKOes Hippowdon, making it a bad switch-in. Entei also forces out a large amount of Pokemon, so the damage from the combination of Sacred Fire, entry hazards, and possible burn and/or sand damage will stack up very quickly.

    Because Entei is weak to entry hazards, a spinner such as Excadrill is highly recommended so Entei can tank hits with its great bulk throughout the match. A Defogger can be used if your team doesn't have a entry hazard setter. A perfect example of this is Latios as it can come in on Water- and Ground-type moves aimed at Entei and proceed to annihilate Rotom-W and Heatran with Draco Meteor and Earthquake respectively, so Entei can spam Sacred Fire with greater ease.

    Mega Charizard Y is also one of Entei's best teammates. With sun support on its side, Sacred Fire will 2HKO almost everything in the metagame bar immunities, and sun also softens Water-type moves from Entei's common checks such as Greninja and Azumarill. In addition to that, Entei can clean up the mess that Mega Charizard Y leaves late-game with its powerful Extreme Speed. Pairing Entei with setup sweepers that have similar counters such as Mega Pinsir is highly recommended. In the provided example, Entei lures in Rotom-W and deals out a heavy amount of damage to it so Mega Pinsir can muscle its way past it later with Return.

    Other Options
    ########

    Due to Entei's horrid movepool, it has limited options. Substitute can be used, but Entei is a sitting duck behind it due to its poor coverage. Entei can use Hidden Power Ice with a Life Orb to lure in and KO Gliscor, but it suffers from four-moveslot syndrome and doesn't like forgoing its primary coverage options. Entei can viably use an Assault Vest, allowing it to combat powerful specially-based wallbreakers such as Mega Charizard Y. However, its damage output is rather poor, and it is also worn down very quickly. Leftovers is a nice item for extending Entei's longevity, but it still has issues regarding power.

    Checks and Counters
    ########

    **Bulky Water-types**: Bulky Water-types can tank Sacred Fire with relative ease. Rotom-W and Suicune are perfect examples of this. The latter can even set up Calm Minds while draining Sacred Fire's PP with Pressure.

    **Gliscor**: Gliscor can recover any damage taken with Poison Heal and can deal a massive amount damage to Entei with Earthquake. However, it cannot switch in without activating its Toxic Orb first, as Sacred Fire can burn as well as deal huge damage to it.

    *Fast Ground- and Water-types**: Garchomp and Greninja can easily force Entei out; however, they cannot switch in directly, especially the former due to the threat of being burned.

    **Heatran**: Heatran is immune to Sacred Fire and can threaten Entei back with Earth Power or Toxic. However, it needs to be careful, as Bulldoze can OHKO it, and Heatran fails to beat Life Orb sets. Air Balloon Heatran, however, is very good at handling Entei, as it's immune to Bulldoze and resists all of Entei's other moves apart from Stone Edge.

    Skeleton (open)

    Overview
    ########
    • Got Sacred Fire with the transition to XY
    • Sacred Fire has 50% Burn Chance and 100 BP which can cripple its normal counters such as Garchomp, Rotom-W, and Gyarados
    • Good offensive presence allows it to use this move well
    • Pretty bulky too and resistance to Fairy-type is good type
    • Access to Extremespeed lets it smoke weakened fast threats and makes it a good revenge-killer
    • Relies on low PP moves
    • Hazard weak :(, but buff to Defog makes it a somewhat lesser issue
    • Fire-typing gives it common weakness to Ground-, Water-, and Rock-type
    • Poor coverage moves
      • The "Volcano Pokemon" lacks Earthquake and also relies on Stone Miss for coverage

    All-Out Attacker
    ########
    name: All-Out Attacker
    move 1: Sacred Fire
    move 2: Extreme Speed
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Bulldoze
    item: Choice Band / Life Orb
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    nature: Adamant

    Moves
    ========
    • Sacred Fire is main STAB move and hits ridiculously hard with Choice Band and its burn chance gives it a way to cripple its switch-ins such as Tyranitar, Terrakion, Garchomp, Salamence, and Azumarill. MANDATORY
    • Extremespeed + Choice Band is a great revenge-killing tool
    • Stone Edge hits hard and provides a way to kill fire-types and hit rotom-w on the switch for massive damage
    • Bulldoze is used for Heatran as it OHKOes after Stealth Rock
    Set Details
    ========
    • A Choice Band set needs max Atk and Spe
    • Adamant Nature because Extremespeed requires
    • You can use Life Orb, but it doesn't complement its bulk, but it can easily pick off switch-ins with the combination of Sacred Fire + Extremespeed
    • Life Orb can be used for switching upon moes and not relying on prediction to combat Rotom-W and Heatran, tflame and lati@s get KOed by Sacred Fire + Espeed combo
    Usage Tips
    ========
    • Sacred Fire should be used a soon as it gets a chance / spam when ever you get the chance
    • Use E-Speed sparingly early game as it can make it set-up to dangerous sweepers like MEga Charizard X
    • Extreme Speed late-game when everything is weakened
    • prediction is one of the most valuable factors of this sets success as it conserves Sacred Fire's measly PP and lets it penalize common switch ins like Tran and TFlame if using Choice Band
    Team Options
    ========
    • Deoxys-S makes hazards for easy Extremespeed abuse and Entei forces lots of switches, so the hazards help
    • Mega Charizard Y provides Sun Support for it to send off stronger Sacred Fires
    • Thundurus-I can paralyze faster threats and can switch into Earthquakes aimed at Entei
    • spinners such as Excadrill is a good teammates, latios has good synergy with entei and can defog away troublesome hazards
    • pairing entei with late-game cleaners who have similiar counters with entei recommended as entei can do massive damage to them for megamaw (entei weakens tar, keldeo, and chomp + has good def. synergy) and mega pinsir (double priority core iyss) to clean
    Other Options
    ########
    • AV set can be used as a great mixed Tank for teams that struggle against Mega Charizard Y, but the damage output is rather disappointing and it is worn down easily, but it is a solid option to be considered on bulkier teams.
    • HP [Ice] for Gliscor lure, but Entei = 4mss
    • Leftovers
    Checks and Counters
    ########
    • Heatran can come in easily, but needs to watch out for Bulldoze
    • Many of its Checks are crippled by Burn, but powerful Special Attackers such as Choice Specs Latios can do massive damage to it
    • Stealth Rock will weaken it, same with Spikes, this thing will switch a lot
    • Rotom-W, Greninja, and Mega Blastoise force it out easily
    • Rain (nerf sucks but Sacred Fire and Flare Blitz won't hit hard as they were)
    • Moltres can roost pressure stall out sacred fire
    • Sacred Fire has a measly 8 PP, so pressure from the likes of Deoxys-D and stalling using Flash Fire can drain its PP out fast
    • Lum Berry Dragonite can come in easily and takes very little and kill a weakened Entei with Outrage
    • Infernape and Charizard X are immune to Burn
    • Entei has trouble breaking past Rotom-H as well
    • paralysis can ruin it as its speed helps outpace some of the threats that can do massive damage to it such as Mamoswine + Hydreigon
    • RestTalk Gyarados
    • Gastrodon (rare tho)
    • Suicune sets up on it
    • Quagsire
    • Vaporeon but its trash
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2014
    TheManlyLadybug likes this.
  2. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    "Bulky Attacker" doesn't quite suit the set you posted, as names like these are usually assigned to offensive Pokemon sets that invest in more defensive EVs than usual. Therefore, I would advise changing it into something like, say, "Sacred Fire" or "All-Out Attacker" or something.

    Additionally, I would deslash Flare Blitz and instead just place it in "Set Details," since it's pretty redundant and Entei prefers another coverage move IMO. I would also consider adding Leftovers, which is an equally useful option as Assault Vest for recovery, and maybe making Choice Band its own set, as it plays signiicantly differently from the other items.

    We'll keep ya posted!
  3. Vertex

    Vertex

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    Implememented.

    I did testing with the Assault Vest set and I don't find it very different from the Choice Band set. The Choice Band set hits like anuke an dthe Assault Vest also hits very hard to with Max Attack + Adamant Nature, but the Assault Vest set is bulkier and can wall more threats, but other than that, they are very alike. I slashed Leftovers and changed then name to All-Out Attacker. Thanks!
  4. Jukain

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    I would slash Iron Head first, easily. Bulldoze seems very niche, while wrecking the Fairies with one move is great, and you also hit Tyranitar decently hard. Bulldoze is a poor move IMO, that I wouldn't even use ever if Heatran didn't exist.
  5. Knight of Cydonia

    Knight of Cydonia dance commander
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    I would not have Iron Head slashed first at all. Sacred Fire with stab is 150 bp and super effective iron head is 160 bp. The only fairy that resists fire in ou is Azumarill who is also neutral to Iron Head. I'd rather have a 50 percent burn chance vs the Fairys (who apart from Azumarill are likely going to switch out anyway) than 10 more bp and a 30% flinch chance. So its really not worth using against any fairy type for a start.

    Secondly Bulldoze is not "very niche", getting rid of Heatran - which is likely the only thing that wants to take a Sacred Fire on the opponents team - in one hit is too good to pass up. Heatran is at no 6 in 1850 stats last month and trust me you will notice its presence a lot more when you are using Entei and you have to deal with it absorbing Sacred Fire. The only thing Iron Head is making a difference against is the Rock types that it hits slightly harder. Tyranitar and Terrakion do not want to take a burn at all and there is really no point predicting their switch ins when you have a huge chance to ruin them anyway.

    Basically Entei's job is to spam Sacred Fire and if it can help itself in doing this by taking out Heatran I see no reason not to do so.
    6feetunder likes this.
  6. Vertex

    Vertex

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    Agreed, but Heatran is a common switch-in, so not very niche. Heatran is very common, especially with rain nerf.
    252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 374-442 (94.9 - 112.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
    252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Florges: 362-426 (100.5 - 118.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 232-274 (58.8 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 244-288 (60.3 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Notable Targets of Iron Head. Sylveon will survive Sacred Fire and smoke back with Choice Specs Pixalate Hyper Voice and OHKO on Florges is really good too. On top of that, Clefable is 2HKOed. Sacred Fire rarely accomplishes that and 95% accuracy can throw you off too for 2HKOes. It also has Magic Guard, so don't say "OH, it'll burn, so burn damage will take it out". If you say that for Sylveon then *facepalm*. It is 50% chance (if it hits). And also, I would rather kill a Tyranitar than burn it with Sacred Fire. On top of that, if its Mega Tyranitar then it won't run HP EVs, so it does 71% damage minimum. That 10 BP is important. I agree, however, saying that Bulldoze is not a "very niche" move. Also, Entei's job is not only to SPAM Sacred Fire. If that was the case, the set wouldn't be running coverage moves. That's an ignorant statement. Tyranitar is slower than Entei too. Even if Tyranitar is burned, the popular Choice Band set does:

    252+ Atk Choice Band burned Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Entei: 315-372 (84.9 - 100.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Okay, I know what you're going to say: Entei can switch out! I saw that coming:

    252+ Atk Choice Band burned Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Entei: 126-149 (33.9 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    May not look like a lot, but combined with a potential Stealth Rock or Spikes and its vulnerability to sandstorm damage (and this thing switching out frequently), it will be worn down quickly. A potential burn ruins them, yes, but Iron Head is a good move to use on this set.
  7. 6feetunder

    6feetunder

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    0 def Sylveon dies to CB SF after rocks anyway. OHKOing Florges is not even remotely important, it does nothing to Entei and is uncommon (for a good reason). Clefable is 2HKOed by SF.

    EDIT: Also, banded ttar is not common. Only 5.243% of ttar last month were banded.
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2014
  8. Knight of Cydonia

    Knight of Cydonia dance commander
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    Sylveon runs defense evs so you can't ohko with Iron Head.
    252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sylveon: 248-292 (62.9 - 74.1%)
    252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sylveon: 232-274 (58.8 - 69.5%)

    Sylveon is not staying in anyway and hyper voice does little damage. If your example is supposed to be specs slyveon??? then hyper voice maxes out at 56% percent anyway "smoke back with Choice Specs Pixalate Hyper Voice" is not accurate or even relevant in the current meta.

    Florges is outclassed by Sylveon and again why is it staying in? So it can do 22% damage? In both of these situations using Sacred Fire is superior since it will do damage / possibly burn switch ins whereas Iron Head is pretty terrible when Rotom-w or whatever comes in.

    Its not even needed for Clefable.
    252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 216-255 (54.8 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    Its 4% damage difference. "Sacred Fire rarely accomplishes that" Don't know if you messed up the calc or something but leftovers is not recovering enough to avoid a 2hko. If someone wants to try and aim for the 10% chance of Sacred Fire not hitting twice they are clutching at straws. Again they shouldn't be switching in/staying in anyway.

    Finally Tyranitar when it does actually matter - the point is Tyranitar is not immune to Sacred Fire unlike Heatran. It still takes damage and possibly burn and does not flat out stop Entei from doing its job like Heatran does. Yes its useful enough against it for a slash but not the first slash.

    Not sure what the point of your post was since you didn't say if you preferred Bulldoze or Iron Head but just listed bad calcs. I didn't even say Iron Head was a bad move I'm just trying to make sure it is not slashed first.
    Vertex and 6feetunder like this.
  9. Jaroda

    Jaroda

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    Adamant with Max speed isn't very impressive. You could go for far more bulk if you'd like and 8 Spd allows it to outspeed Jolly Tyranitar.
  10. UltiMario

    UltiMario

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    why is Iron Head even on this analysis

    You can't do shit to azu either way and you hit everything nearly as hard with Sacred Fire, and in any situation where you have to choose Scared Fire vs Iron Head, you're going to choose Sacred Fire.

    Why are you running a move for coverage for something Sacred Fire already beats when you could run Bulldoze and beat something that otherwise Entei cannot even touch.
  11. Namso

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    Why is Iron Head even slashed? Sacred Fire already destroys Sylveon and Florges. It also retains the 2HKO against max HP/max Def Clefable with Choice Band (Iron Head doesn't even 2HKO without Choice Band), and the burn chance actually makes Sacred Fire a better option against the increasingly common Unaware Clefable. Stone Edge already covers Togekiss, but Sacred Fire 2HKOes it anyway as well. Also, a burned Tyranitar is just as useful as a weakened Tyranitar. 252 HP variants are almost 2HKOed by Bulldoze, anyway (35% chance to 2HKO w/ SR).

    Heatran is everywhere and completely shuts Entei down. Being able to actually overcome it with Bulldoze is significant. It also still hits Tyranitar harder than Stone Edge. It's not like Bulldoze is a stupidly bad move either, the Speed drop can be really helpful at times.
  12. Vertex

    Vertex

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    Iron Heas
    ok, Iron Head gone, i'd like to hear something else other than how iron head is bad, or is this good
  13. 6feetunder

    6feetunder

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    no

    Why Mega Gardevoir? It can't switch in at all and it certainly doesn't "do massive damage even through the Assault Vest"

    252 SpA Mega Gardevoir Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Entei: 150-177 (40.3 - 47.5%)
    252 SpA Mega Gardevoir Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Entei: 178-211 (47.8 - 56.7%)
    252+ Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 234-276 (84.1 - 99.2%)
    252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 349-412 (125.5 - 148.2%)

    CM Clefable in rain? How is that even relevant?
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2014
  14. Vertex

    Vertex

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    For the first one, its redundant coverage so AG told me to put in Set Details

    Gardevoir Mega, yea, I'm talking about Powerful special attackers, no reason to add explanation

    I don't know what hit my head, took off rain, mustve been typo
  15. 6feetunder

    6feetunder

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    I edited some calcs into my previous post which essentially boil down to "Mega Gardevoir is a shitty answer to Entei."
  16. Vertex

    Vertex

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    edited

    ok, i think this is good now, just putting some final touches

    QC ready
  17. alexwolf

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    I know that a million people have already said this, but all 4 moves on the set are vital, which means that Iron Head shouldn't even get an OO mention. Lol at Fairy-types trying to mess with Entei, and you are fucking up TTar on the switch with Sacred Fire anyway. When you have STAB Sacred Fire, the only things you need are coverage against Fire-types and priority.
  18. Tainic

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    Dugtrio can trap Heatran and makes Entei's life easier by permitting it to spam Sacred Fire. Dug also traps many other Flash Fire users, like Houndoom, Arcanine and Chandelure.

    I can't wait for Entei to get Flash Fire itself.

    Also mention that SF only has 8 PPs, and there should be used wisely if there's a Suicune/Another Entei/Another Bulky Pressure User in the enemy team.
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2014
  19. Vertex

    Vertex

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    Implementing
    Pressure is pretty rare, and even if it did get 8 Sacred Fire's off, that would be epic. Lots of holes and burns for a partner to sweep and it could just sit back on Extremespeed to kill.
  20. Jukain

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    Why is AV merged with CB

    AV is a way, way different set. It packs NOWHERE NEAR the power of CB, but CB packs NOWHERE NEAR the bulk of AV. CB is an offensive Pokemon. AV is a bulky Pokemon that checks crap while still packing a punch. It runs an entirely different EV spread. The moves may be the same, but how the set works is so different.

    I can elaborate more if you want.
  21. Vertex

    Vertex

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    Split the set. I went for 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
    8 Spe outpaces jelly + tar and maximizing bulk + hitting hard is important
    bulldoze doesnt ohko tran iirc with AV tho
    mentioned how it checks zard y rly well

    EDIT:

    Gary2346
    did that, thx
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2014
  22. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    What....exactly are you suggesting? I'd remove this from OO because to me it looks like your implying that Scarf Arcanine is actually relevant. Maybe use a more practical reasoning or example? I mean, I sure as hell wouldn't use Scarf Entei simply because Arcanine exists (but seriously what Arcanine why?). The fact that Entei has an absolute trash movepool which gives it like no useful coverage moves and how it has access to ExtremeSpeed to help remedy its average Speed, I really see no reason that I'd ever want to use Scarf Entei just because oh hey 50% burn move. Choice Scarf Pokemon are useful for their ability to revenge kill a variety of threats that give your team issues, and all Choice Scarf Entei would really be useful for is spamming Scared Fire. Either remove it or give some more practical reasoning. Like say, Scarf Victini for example, which is arguably the only decent Scarfed Fire-type in OU.

    Also, I'd elaborate more on the AV set in general. Mention exactly what AV checks that CB can't, and possibly throw some calcs in there if need be. Simply mentioning that it's bulkier than CB doesn't really seem that convincing. It's an amazing Charizard-Y check for example, which is pretty damn important seeing as how it's one of the hardest Pokemon to switch into in OU.
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2014
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  23. Unowninator

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    Flash Fire is illegal, period. It was never released.
  24. Vertex

    Vertex

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    I'm just saying when it gets released, I know its not released.
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2014
  25. 6feetunder

    6feetunder

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2013
    Messages:
    224
    How do you know? You don't. For all we know, when FF gets released it could come with espeed. We won't know if they're incompatible until it actually gets released.

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