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Enter the Black Hole

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Ace Trainer, Oct 12, 2012.

  1. Ace Trainer

    Ace Trainer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    31

    [​IMG]

    Enter the Black Hole

    Enter into the Black Hole where reality and gravity prevents anything, including your team, from escaping. Once you enter this realm, there is no escaping, only the few have survived, and lived to tell the tale.

    Enough with the introduction, Hey there Smogon, this is my first RMT! I've just started using Pokemon Online, I mostly do Wifi, but I wanted to battle more competitive people. So, I joined Smogon to get some insights on how my team is and how I can improve this team. Without further adieu, let's get into the team.

    [​IMG]

    Fly into the Black Hole for the Team building Purposes


    Show Hide


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    Bronzong is the core to every Trick Room team, so it was obvious to start with him. With great bulk and access to Trick Room and Stealth Rock, I had to start with him.

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    Next I needed someone who would work outside of Trick Room and who has perfect synergy with Bronzong. With Bronzong only having have a weakness to Fire, I thought about a Fire type pokemon that could work with Bronzong. Seeing how Infernape has a weakness to Ground, Psychic, Flying and Water, Bronzong covers all of Infernape's weakness with ease.

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    Next, I needed a Second Trick Roomer. There were several that came to mind, but I needed the one that could set up Trick Room and sweep by itself. Reuniclus is the second Trick Roomer. The most broken pokemon to still be in the OU Tier. I love this pokemon he can fit on every Trick Room Team, he was like Bronzong in Gen IV, everyone had to have him.

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    Conkeldurr was very simple to add on the team. I know about its brute strength when he activates Guts. Also he has Hammer Arm which is his best STAB move and is great for Trick Room. With access to Mach Punch he can easily pick off weakened Pokemon. Plus Conkeldurr has good synergy with Reuniclus, what ever Reuniclus can't hit Conkeldurr covers that.


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    After I dropped Jellicent, I went to one of my favorite Pokemon, Slowking. Even though he isn't common in the OU tier, he cause many teams problems. When Slowking is able to get a Nasty Plot, Surf and Fire Blast becomes his bread and butter. Even though Scizor is his greatest nemises, I have Fire Blast to stop him dead in his track.

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    The last Pokemon was a toss up. I wanted a mix sweeper that could break my opponents wall. What made me look into Dragonite was his Dragon / Fire / Fighting combo is the only moves that Dragonite needs, the reason why is of course that it hits every Pokemon for at least neutral damage. The last thing was his new ability Multscale.

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    With the newest release of Garchomp, I needed a Pokemon that could check the newest threat back in the OU tier. Pocket suggest Genesect over Infernape, b/c Infernape would not revenge kill Garachomp, but luckily Genesect does. It also checks Thundurus-T and other rain threats my team was facing.











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    Team at a Glance


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    Bronzong @ Leftovers
    Sassy Nature
    EVs: 244 HP / 180 Atk / 84 SpD Def

    • Trick Room
    • Stealth Rock
    • Gyro Ball
    • Earthquake
    The only Pokemon on the team that resist Dragon types, it has a large duty to do. Bronzong is the defensive “OH MY GOSH” button. Being able to take hits from both sides is why he has a large duty on this team. His resistance to a lot of types and Stealth Rocks is also a plus, no other Pokemon is great at setting up Trick Room and being able to take a hit better than him. Bronzong ends up as lead, at least 95% of the time, because he packs with him Stealth Rocks, but I am also prone to the TAUNT BAIT. Bronzong's Stealth Rocks is crucial for this team, because every extra damage before hand is a chance for my Pokemon to OHKO or 2HKO my opponent’s Pokemon. Gyroball is Bronzong's main source of direct damage, as this its only STAB move. While the coverage isn't great, gyroball is a very strong STAB move against the fast sweepers in the OU tier, which makes for its poor coverage. Earthquake is here to check SubCM Jirachi for the team. The EV spread on Bronzong is slightly interesting. With 252 HP EVs on Bronzong, you hit an HP stat of 338, which is not evenly divisible by 16 and hence does not give you optimal Leftovers recovery. You end up recovering about 6.21% every turn instead of the optimal 6.25%. Forgive me for being paranoid about 0.04%, but with 244 HP EV I remedy this. I also chose Sassy Nature to sponge special attacks, and I still can OHKO Gengar and Tornadus after SR.

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    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 8 Atk / 252 SpA / 248 Spe
    Mild Nature (+SpA, -Def)

    • U-turn
    • Ice Beam
    • Bug Buzz
    • Thunderbolt
    Genesect is the newest member of the team. With Garchomp back in the OU, I needed a Choice Scarf that could check him easily. While Infernape did a good job, it just could revenge kill Garchomp without being KOed by STAB Earthquake. Pocket suggested the use of Genesect on this team, and so far it has done great. Genesect is a nice lead against Deoxys-D, since +1 Bug Buzz from Genesect will limit Tanga Deoxys-D to one layer or maybe not even get a chance to if it doesn't have a Tanga Berry.


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    Reuniclus @ Life Orb
    Quiet Nature
    EVs: 96 HP / 160 Def / 252 SAtk

    • Trick Room
    • Psychic
    • Focus Blast
    • Shadow Ball


    Reuniclus is a hell of a monster Pokemon. Blessed with its Magic Guard ability. When I play with Reuniclus I know I can take out about 3 pokemon on my opponent’s team before Trick Room ends. The EVs are from wrestlethebeast, 252 SATk allows me to hit a whopping 383 SATk with a + nature such as Quiet. 160 Def Ev's lets me tank an Outrage from Choice Banded Dragonite. The remaining 96 EV's go into HP for bulk. Focus Miss is just a bitch of a move, the chance of hitting my targets is great but if it doesn't hit I'm fucked. Focus Blast is here to hit Tyranitar, Ferrothorn, and others hard whenever it hits. Shadow Ball is for hitting Latios, Latias, Jellicent, Alakazam and pretty much any other Ghost or Psychic type you want to mention. Since I have Conkeldurr and Infernape to stop Chansey and Blissey, I kept Psychic to hit Pokemon on the special side since I don’t have to worry about the pink blobs. This is such a key player on every Trick Room team.


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    Conkeldurr @ Toxic Orb
    Brave Nature
    EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 SpD

    • Hammer Arm
    • Mach Punch
    • Ice Punch
    • Facade


    Conkeldurr is my favorite member of the team, to become an actual real life Pokemon. I just love his brute strength in power he brings in his 10 commandment stones. He's my physical sweeper on the team, and the second one to stop Blissey and Chansey. The move set is based around the max of 3 turns. Conkeldurr covers most of the threats that posed a problem with Reuniclus. The genies were a major concern but with Ice Punch, they're more than covered. Hammer Arm is Conkeludrr’s best STAB under Trick Room will allows for crucial OHKOs or 2HKOs, most notably Ferrothorn and Skarmory.
    The EVs are a little more interesting on this Conkeldurr as it minimizes Toxic damage, while maintaining the bulk necessary in this type of a team. The reduced Toxic damage is a small difference, but Conkeldurr doesn’t last for at least 3-4 turns which is all I need Conkeldurr to tear through my opponent’s team. Toxic Orb is to activate Guts and render Conkeldurr immune to other statuses, when I see Volcorana I go after it with Facade not too worried about the chance of Burn.


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    Slowking @ Leftovers
    Quiet Nature
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA

    • Trick Room
    • Nasty Plot
    • Surf
    • Fire Blast


    Ahh, the Offensive Nasty Plot Slowking. You guys now about this guy. After one Nasty Plot its special attack is already at 658, which is monsterous, Slowbro would dream of having that. With its STAB Surf, a lot of Pokemon are going to KO by in, and don't say if I run into a Rain team, the STAB and Rain boost will be the end of opponents team, unless it has Gastrodon. Fire Blast is here for the Pokemon that constantly are lured in by Slowking which are Scizor, Ferrothorn, Breloom, Magnezone, Skarmory, Jirachi, Forretress, and Genesect. With Fire Blast they will be sent to hell with it, as long as it hits, but its 10X better than Focus Miss from Reuniclus. The only problem with Nasty Plot, is that I have to choose whether to use Nasty Plot first then Trick Room, or Trick Room then Nasty Plot, because if I use Trick Room first I waste a turn of Trick Room and is threatened to be KOed.


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    Dragonite @ Life Orb
    Quiet Nature
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA

    • Draco Meteor
    • Fire Blast
    • Superpower
    • Extremespeed

    When I was making this team I wanted a mixed sweeper on the team to help break some walls. When I’m playing with Dragonite, he usually only stays on the field for 3 turns at the most, because he tends to be switching in and out most of the time. The Dragon / Fire / Fighting combo is the only moves that Dragonite needs, the reason why is of course that it hits every Pokemon for at least neutral. Roost was chosen to get HP back and to get my Multscale back intact. Draco Meteor is OVERKILL, to anyone except the pink blobs, if you have a weak special defense you will most likely be KOed. I jut Life Orb on Dragonite to get some crucial KOes, but I'm thinking about changing his moveset to be more physical.



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    Coming Home


    I'm very pleased with my team, so far, there are some changes I'm considering making. For example, the movesets on Dragonite and Slowking. Trick Room is something I've enjoyed playing with for a while, and while I know most people don't think of Trick Room to be an effective strategy it can a threat to even the best of the top players.

    Thanks for reading and Luvdisc if you really enjoyed this team.

    Importable


    Show Hide

    Bronzong @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    Sassy Nature
    EVs: 244 HP / 180 Atk / 84 SpD Def
    Trick Room
    Stealth Rock
    Gyro Ball
    Hidden Power Ice


    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 8 Atk / 252 SpA / 248 Spe
    Mild Nature (+SpA, -Def)
    - U-turn
    - Ice Beam
    - Bug Buzz
    - Thunderbolt

    Reuniclus @ Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    Quiet Nature
    EVs: 96 HP / 160 Def / 252 SAtk
    Trick Room
    Psyshic
    Focus Blast
    Shadow Ball

    Conkeldurr @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Guts
    Brave Nature
    EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 SpD
    Hammer Arm
    Mach Punch
    Ice Punch
    Facade

    Slowking @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    Quiet Nature
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
    Trick Room
    Nasty Plot
    Surf
    Fire Blast

    Dragonite @ Life Orb
    Trait: Multscale
    Quiet Nature
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA
    Draco Meteor
    Fire Blast
    Extremespeed
    Roost


  2. Ace Trainer

    Ace Trainer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    31
    Threat List

    Abomasnow: Abomasnow never has a chance to do much to my team. Stealth Rock really limits the times it can switch in, and with Conkeldurr and Infernape being on the team, he is OHKO. Reuniclus also OHKO him with Focus Blast whenever it hits, and Bronzong's Gyroball KOes him.

    Aerodactyl: I don't see him in the OU too much, but when I do I usually expect taunt or suicide lead. I usually stick with Bronzong and OHKO him with Gyro Ball. Slowking also OHKOs him with his STAB Surf.

    Alakazam: I have 2 Pokemon that can OHKO him, but they are both weak to his STAB Psyshock.

    Blissey: Despite what it looks like, I actually lick my lips every time I see a Blissey. Conkeludurr and Infernape rapes her everytime, I don't have much to worry about.

    Breloom: The time it poses a problem is when it starts to set up substitutes. which waste my Trick Room turns. But I have Psychic on Reuniclus which gets rid of him.

    Celebi: Celebi isn't much of a problem for my team, just as Breloom, because of all the super effective coverage I have against it. Nasty Plot variants tend to carry Hidden Power Fire, Giga Drain, and Earth Power, so I can simply use Dragonite to beat those. Tinkerbell can spread paralysis of course, but I usually just beat it down with brute force. Besides, it doesn't get an opportunity to come in and set up unless someone sends it out against Starmie or Dugtrio. Ninetales and Heatran beat down sets that lack Earth Power, and fortunately, this is most Celebi sets.

    Chansey: Chansey is basically dealt with in the same way as I deal with Blissey, though it does have a bit more bulk to boast. Regardless, Conkeldurr and Infernape will demolish it one on one, though it does stand a better chance if it uses Seismic Toss. Regardless, it can be dealt with without too much trouble, and Dragonite is always lurking should Chansey not fall.

    Cloyster: This is not a very big problem considering that most of my team is specially based, so Cloyster will not get many opportunities to set up. I also have Mach Punch to get him if he tries to Shell Smash.

    Conkeldurr: Most of the Conkeludrr I've faced tend to Bulk Up ones, so Psychic from Reuniclus always OHKOs him, and Draco Meteor from Dragonite will OHKO, I usually switch to Dragonite b/c with Multscale Ice Punch won't KO him.

    Deoxys-D:


    Donphan: Donphan only has Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock, Earthquake, and Ice Shard. Specail Attacks are a threat to him, so Slowking with Surf and Ice Beam will OHKO him,

    Dragonite: Dragonite is generally a giant threat for any team this generation. However, the biggest key to removing opposing Dragonite is getting Stealth Rock down early on in the match. With this, I ensure that Dragonite's Multiscale no longer functions,

    Dugtrio: Dugtrio is actually a troublesome Pokémon to face but luckly Slowking can OHKO with STAB Surf, but I have to be careful with Reversal. It gets tricky from time to time,

    Espeon: Espeon is generally only seen on Baton Pass or sun teams, I don't really have a clear check to him sadly.

    Ferrothorn: Ferrothorn is just bait for Reuniclus. Even though its slower than Reuniclus under Trick Room, but Hidden Power Fire will almost OHKO, plus I have Infernape to truly get rid of him if needed.

    Forretress: Forretress does nothing other than set up entry hazards and use Rapid Spin. I generally just switch to Dragonite and Slowking to use Fire Blast

    Gastrodon: Under the rain, Gastrodon’s STAB becomes even more troublesome, I don’t have a true check to him.

    Genesect: With Slowking being the bait to lure out Genesect, he will be surprisingly OHKO by Fire Blast, and Infernape is the back up, so he can't start sweeping through my team as well.

    Gengar:
  3. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    788
    Just a little observation: your Reuniclus is walled to hell and back by any Tyranitar out there. Also, you only have only one switch in for things like CBTar, and said switch in will poison itself to function well, thus being worn down very fast by poison, sandstorm and resisted hits you will switch him into. I can see that HP Fire is very useful on Reuniclus, so I'm not suggesting to remove it for Focus Blast; however, since Conk is the only thing that keeps you from being wrecked by CBTar, I would substitute Hammer Arm with Drain Punch. Drain Punch counteracts damaging weathers, hazards and poison that wear down you Conkeldurr, and also packs enough power to OHKO all those Fighting weak things that you could face. It's less powerful, of course, but Facade has 140 BP while poisoned, which is basically equivalent to Hammer Arm's BP, considering STAB (also, Hammer Arm's accuracy is very trollish and you don't want to miss with such a pokemon, with limited turns of TR and limited turns to live thanks to poison). The two look quite redundant, and since you could put Drain Punch's leeched HP to great use, it's a worthwhile change in my opinion.

    Hope it helped! Good luck for your team.
  4. Ace Trainer

    Ace Trainer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    31
    Thanks for the input, Tyranitar is a problem with Reuniclus. That's the choice you make with switching moves, you might lose some threats but you gain some as well. I have Infernape to stop Tyranitar as long as I don't have Trick Room up. You mentioned Drain Punch, but I'm not worried about keeping Conkeldurr on the field longer than 4 turns, by the time he's finished he would have at least KOed 2-3 Pokemon. I appreciate the rate, since you are the first one.
  5. indian

    indian

    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
    Messages:
    151
    You are using the wrong spread on infernape. Move the 4 spA evs to hp and change the nature to jolly as you dont use any special moves on nape. GL:)
  6. ClubbingSealCub

    ClubbingSealCub

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2012
    Messages:
    390
    Wrong. With only 1 of his moves being able to really score any super effective hits (dragon/normal have shitty super effective coverage) Expert Belt would pretty much be the same as having no item. LO gives a massive boost to Dragonite's attacks, and roost lets him get his multiscale back up.

    Stick with LO.

    Alternatively, you could use a Dragon Gem and include Outrage in his moveset if you prefer to get rid of the recoil, because Dragon Gem Draco Meteor / Outrage hits like a god damn truck, and Outrage also gives you a physical STAB.
  7. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,301
    Hey!

    I've seen this team used and it isn't that bad. Actually, it's great. I would just use Psyshock over Psychic so you ensure the KO's on +2 Keldeo and Terrakion in sand, not to mention you can hit Blissey better with it if you ever need too.

    GL
  8. Ace Trainer

    Ace Trainer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    31
    Thanks for all of the comments guys

    @Indian, thank you for telling me I was using the wrong set. I made the change to Jolly Nature

    @ClubbingSealClub, I don't like Outrage, because of being forced to be locked into a move. Which isn't good for Trick Room. Thank you though.

    @Shurtugal, thank you for complimenting my team. It's great to hear that someone thinks my team is great. You suggest Psyshock to KO Keldeo and Terrakion, I can still OHKO Terrakion in the sandstorm but it's only 56.25% chance to OHKO. I chose not to use Psyshock, because I have COnkeldurr and Infernape to hit Pokemon on the physical side. I appreaciate it.

    Do you see anything weird with my team, that can be change? Feel free to comment. I appreciate and look at everyone's suggestions
  9. Cinco Diablo

    Cinco Diablo

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,268
    Hey man, I got your VM to rate this team, and that's exactly what I am going to do now. Trick room teams are really hard to pull off in today's meta with tons of threats running around, but you seem to have gone against the odds with this team. Anyways, let's take a look deeper into the team, yes? I have a ton of suggestions that you can try to help improve this team. But enough with my rambling, let's get onto the rate shall we? When I take a glance at your team, I can't spot any glaring weaknesses right off, so I'll just go ahead and suggest some moveset and EV spread changes, kay? Okay, first off, on Reuniclus, I would suggest that you use Focus Blast over HP Fire. With Focus Blast in its moveset, Reuniclus can hit both Tyranitar and Ferrothorn with it, albiet its accuracy, it gives you some good insurance. Moving on, you should change Slowkings set to an Offensive Trick Room set over your current one. A good reason for this set is that with a Nasty Plot, Slowking pretty much destroys anything that doesn't resist its two coverage moves. One last change I would make is running Superpower over Extremespeed on Dragonite. This gives you some insurance against the pink blobs and just about anything else that doesn't resist it. Well, that's all I can say for this team. I hope I helped just a little bit. Have fun and good luck with the team. Once again, props for using Trick Room!

    Slowking (Set Speed IV to 0) (open)

    [​IMG]
    Slowking @ Leftovers Lv. 100 -- Regenerator
    Nature: Quiet - EVs: 248 HP / 252 SAtk / 8 SpD
    - Surf
    - Fire Blast
    - Nasty Plot
    - Trick Room
  10. Ace Trainer

    Ace Trainer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    31
    Thanks for the Dr Ciel,

    I was thinking about running an Offensive Slowking. I'm doin gsome calculations on Honkalculator, and it does OHKO a lot of Pokemon after Nasty Plot, which is awesome. So I'm going to be using your set.

    I see a lot of people including you have suggested that I drop Hidden Power Fire and add Focus Miss. The chance of Focus Blast hitting is so low that I can either KO someone or be KOed. I lose the ability to hit Genesect and Scizor, but I have Slowking now to hit them with Fire Blast. SO thanks for the suggestions I'll change Hidden Power Fire for Focus Miss.

    I'll also test out Superpower again on Dragonite, I jsut have a little problem with having two moves that will lower Dragonite's attacking stats, but the extra insurance won't hurt, plus I always switch Dragonite in and out most of the time, and I have Roost to heal its HP back and its Multscale.

    Feel Free to comment on my team, all suggestions are greatly appreciated. And luvdisc's as well :)
  11. Absolete

    Absolete

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    89
    I built a team very similar to this a while back with great success. Keeping Hammer Arm on Conkeldurr is huge, Drain Punch misses notable OHKOs, such as Ferrothorn. However, your Trick Room setting core seems a bit precarious to me. None of them have recovery (aside from Regenerator). Does your core ever seem a bit fragile? I would recommend switching out Roost for Extreme Speed on Dragonite. With a fairly fragile Trick Room core, there's not a lot of time to Roost up with Dragonite, while having Extreme Speed will help you be useful even with Trick Room down. As a fairly experienced Trick Room player, I know how awful the feeling of having only abusers left with no setters is.
  12. Oopa

    Oopa

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2012
    Messages:
    131
    Hi, nice trick room team, and a wonderfully aesthetically pleasing rmt to go with it! anyway, just read about you saying you didn't like conkeldurr with a burn- it doesn't matter because guts ignores burn attack drop. so over 4 turns, you should be taking less damage from burn, than from toxic poisoning. just wondering.
    oh and in your importable you might want to add Trait: Multiscale and stuff like that to make it able to be imported into PS! and PO

    i hope my small perfectionist details help!
  13. Ace Trainer

    Ace Trainer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    31
    Now what do you mean by my Trick Room core being fragile?
  14. Episode36

    Episode36

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Messages:
    135
    Anyone else come in to this thread seeing the title and reading the intro and figuring it would be a gravity team? :P

    Anyways, as others have said, this is a pretty standard and nice trick room team.
  15. Absolete

    Absolete

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    89
    Reuniclus, Slowking, and Bronzong, while "bulky" in their own rights, are rather fragile as a core. None of them carry recovery. They are all heavy offense oriented, and as such they'll get worn down quickly. Bronzong is sort of a defensive pivot, but without recovery he also gets worn down quickly. Not that it's a bad thing, the playstyles differ. However, the fragility of the core means that you won't have the durability to put up Trick Room more than a few times with each pokemon in the course of a match. Dragonite won't have time to be wasting damage turns using Roost.
  16. Ace Trainer

    Ace Trainer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    31
    So what are your suggestions on my core, b/c I took a look at your team and mine. The only difference between our core is, that you have Porygon2 as another Pokemon with Recovery. I see what you mean about having Trick Roomers with recovery core. That's what you are saying, does your Trick Room Pokemon have a way of recovering HP? No, only one Pokemon has a way of getting HP recovery, but I don't have time to waste to turns trying to recover my HP, while my opponent sets up on me.

    So what do you suggest I should do with my Trick Room core?

    I see you don't like my use of Roost on Dragonite, but Roost really does help Dragonite. I see what you mean about having Extremespeed as a way of hitting Pokemon outside of Trick Room. But, I have Infernape to hit those Pokemon outside of Trick Room, because he outspeeds majority of the tier with Choice Scarf.
  17. Sciztar

    Sciztar

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2012
    Messages:
    259
    Great team bro.

    I don't see any problems with this team. You pared each Pokemon who has great synergy with each other, props on that.

    But, I do see a Rain problem your facing. I have the same problem with my team. The only thing I can think of is adding Celebi or adding Gastrodon. But adding them would mess up the synergy.

    Other than that great job. Luvdisc' GL ;)
  18. Absolete

    Absolete

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    89
    I'm not saying to do anything to your core. I'm saying that with a three Trick Room setting core, none with reliable recovery, the turns under Trick Room are too valuable to be roosting up. Dragonite doesn't have the luxury of using Recovery on the last turn of Trick Room and allowing himself to shoot off another Trick Room like Porygon 2 does. I have a bulkier core with Porygon 2 added and I still don't find time to have recovery on any of my abusers, when my abusers are out it's balls to the walls offense. Dragonite is one of the premier mixed wall breakers, he should be used as such, especially when he has such a small window of abuse with Trick Room. Your Infernape is there, but does that mean you want the rest of your team to be lacking impact while Trick Room isn't up? A source of priority on abusers is always a good thing to have.
  19. Sciztar

    Sciztar

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2012
    Messages:
    259
    What Absolete is saying Ace Trainer, is that your Dragonite neesd priority to help for when Trick Room isn't up. I agree that Roost does waste a turn on Trick Room, but If you roost while isn't up, your Dragonite becomes a Tank with Multscale. So in other words, if Roost is helping you out and keeping Dragonite in play longer then you keep Roost.
  20. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude "The Phone-Post King"
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2012
    Messages:
    1,349
    Hey their Ace Trainer i got your request and great trick room team!

    Hazards look like a big problem for this team. Although you do have Reuniclus with Magic Gaurd and Bronzong with Levitate it still hinders your teams preformance. For one Dragonite loses 25% of his health upon switching in which is made even worse when Life Orb damage racks up, not to mention that your team will probally be switching around a lot to activate Trick Room making your team continously take hazards damage. Slowking one of your Trick Room setters has to keep healthy to keep Trick Room up and hazards + Life Orb recoil doesn't help that. As mentioned by Sciztar your team also has a slight weakness to rain teams with both of your water resists having a hard time taking water-type moves continously due to their Life Orb and suspectability to hazards.

    To help remedy this problem you might want to try Defensive Rapid Spin Starmie>Slowking although you do lose one of your Trick Room setters, you gain an awesome pokemon to take boosted water-type moves from rain teams and to spin away hazards that can hinder this teams preformance. With acces to Rapid Spin and Recover Starmie is able to spin hazards and stay healthy throughout the match. Scald is the primary stab and has a nice chance to burn while Ice Beam is a great moves to use against Dragon-type pokemon. The only thing you really lose without Slowking is another Trick Room setter, after all Reuniclus, Dragonite, and Conkeldurr is already a great offensive Trick Room core, making Slowkings role as a special attacker not to important and Starmie as mentioned above can take water-type moves alot better with Recover and he can spin away hazards as well. Unlike the standard defensive Starmie with this being a Trick Room team max Hp and Def is probally better then Max Hp and Spe. However another cool option i urge you to try although it is quite gimicky is to use max speed on Starmie and change his ability to Analytic. With Analytic when ever Starmie moves last his attacks are boosted by 30%.

    Good luck with the team i hope i helped!

    Sets
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    [​IMG]
    Starmie @ Leftovers | Natural Cure
    Bold | 252 Hp / 4 SpA / 252 Def
    Scald | Ice Beam | Rapid Spin | Recover

    Tl;dr
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    Starmie--->Slowking



    ~Superpowerdude
  21. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,580
    Sorry for taking me so long to get back to you, Ace Trainer :x

    The team seems pretty solid, with most threats covered while aggressively executing your own TR strategy. There are a few threats that seems problematic to this team, though. The newly unleashed Garchomp and its SD Yache set can wreak some havoc; Scarf Infernapes inability to revenge-kill it doesn't help. A bit of chip damage will put Bronzong, your only chance to win, into +2 Fire Fang OHKO range. Another issue are Rain threats - Thundurus-T and SubCM Jirachi. Thundurus-T can spam powerful Thunder with minimal repercussions. Jirachi can be pretty annoying, too, finding opportunities to set up CM on Bronzong and maybe even Reuniclus; Rain halves the effectiveness of Flare Blitz and Fire Blasts.

    I'd also like to fit Explosion in Bronzong's moveset. Explosion allows Bronzong to excuse itself and safely bring in your TR abusers Conkeldurr or Dragonite. This will allow you to take advantage of TR to its fullest.

    To make this happen, I suggest replacing Slowking for Celebi. Celebi lets you deal with Thundurus-T better resisting its STAB Thunder and denting it with HP Ice if you choose to use it. Just as important, it can set up Trick Room like Slowking. Even more, it has access to SR, freeing an Explosion spot in Bronzong's moveset. You lose Slowking's Fire resistance, but you still have Dragonite. Celebi is less offensive, but this team already has enough fire power as is. Celebi is hard to play with the ubiquity of Genesect; but it is great in keeping rocks down, since common spinners don't enjoy facing it.

    TR & SR Celebi (open)
    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 68 SAtk / 136 SDef / 52 Spd
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Atk / 30 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
    - Leaf Storm
    - Hidden Power Fire
    - Stealth Rock
    - Trick Room

    HP Fire is to remove Forretress, and it also comes in handy for removing Genesect. HP Ice is better for dealing with Thundurus, but Trick Room, SR, and Leaf Storm already screws it over for the most part. There's always Dragonite's ESpeed and Genesect to fall back on, anyways. Giga Drain is an option over Leaf Storm for nice recovery, since this Celebi lacks Recover in exchange for more utility.

    As for Garchomp, I propose replacing Scarf Infernape for Scarf Genesect. Scarf Genesect destroys dragons much more readily than Infernape ever could. Even with Yache, Ice Beam is killing Garchomp, thanks to the SpA boost. If it is one of those Garchomp, which purposely lowered its Defense so Genesect doesn't get an SpA boost, Ice Beam is still doing 68-81% if Modest.

    Genesect also pairs well with Celebi when combating Thundurus-T, as it can switch in on HP Ice aimed at Celebi and check mate Thundurus-T without an Agility boost. Another bonus is that Genesect is a nice lead against Deoxys-D, since +1 Bug Buzz will limit Tanga Deoxys-D to one layer (no layers for those without Tanga Berry)

    Scarf Genesect (open)
    [​IMG]
    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 8 Atk / 252 SpA / 248 Spe
    Mild Nature (+SpA, -Def)
    - U-turn
    - Ice Beam
    - Bug Buzz
    - Thunderbolt

    Those are some major changes that I suggest; here are some small tweaks to plug the holes:
    Explosion and Earthquake over Stealth Rock and HP Ice on Bronzong. With Earthquake, it can now reliably check SubCM Jirachi for the team. Explosion allows effective transition to your TR destruction plan. Max HP on Bronzong please.
    ExtremeSpeed over Roost on your MixNite. I've had played with MixNite extensively, and I never found myself wanting to Roost. First of all, it's EV spread is does not allow for effective use of Roost + MultiScale. More importantly, Dragonite is more productive dishing hard hits than wasting a precious TR turn Roosting when it'll be broken by the next turn, thanks to LO recoil. In the other hand, ExtremeSpeed will provide you additional revenge-killing capabilities to this team, which is important on such a slow team like this. Move those 4 EVs into SpD rather than HP.

    Hope this rate met your expectations; best of success!
  22. Ace Trainer

    Ace Trainer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    31
    Hey Pocket thanks for the rate I really appreciate it.

    Before I start I would like to say, that I don't like to use legendary Pokemon on my teams. I never like the idea, it is just a personal preference of mine.

    Okay, celebi, didn't do too well with a lot teams on PO having Genesect on their teams. So that was a bummer, I had a trouble setting up Stealth Rock and Trick Room at the same time. I like the idea of Explosion on Bronzong so it can free up a turn of Trick Room. But seeing how Celebi didnt work too well, I'm testing Explosion over Earthquake. So I'm sticking with Slowking for right now.

    I like the use of Genesect on the team, I find that my Genesect is very good special attacker with a Choice Scarfer. So I'm keeping Genesect on my team. It's sad to see Infernape go. But the only concern is Genesect sometimes gets outsped by a lot of threats that infernape once checked. I find that a pain and thats why I sometimes keep playing with Infernape because Genesect gets outsped. :(

    Other than that, all of your suggestsions have helped the team. I appreciate the rate Pocket.
  23. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
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    Yea, I figured Celebi wouldn't fly for most players with all the Genesect spammage. You can certainly nail Genesect with HP Fire if you set up TR up, though.

    If you're using Slowking, replace Life Orb for Leftovers, since it really appreciates the steady recovery to have enough health to Nasty Plot and set up Trick Room. Regenerator alone wont be enough in keeping Slowking healthy.

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