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Entry Hazards, Rapid Spinning and SpinBlocking

Discussion in 'Archives' started by hsb39, Oct 25, 2008.

  1. hsb39

    hsb39

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    Ok, I finished the guide on spinning like I said I was going to, there are no contents and it is not HTMLized, so I need help there. Also any tips would be greatly appreciated. It is on a Word document so it is incredibly easy to make corrections.

    Entry Hazards, Rapid Spinning and SpinBlocking

    Introduction

    Entry hazards are moves that are set out on to the field and do damage or some extra effect when the opponent switches in. These moves are Spikes, Stealth Rock, and Toxic Spikes. At least one of these moves is seen in nearly every Standard team in D/P/Pt. This guide will help you understand how to utilize entry hazards, how to get rid of them (through Rapid Spin), and how to block attempts of getting rid of them.

    The Entry Hazards

    Before trying to use entry hazards it is important to know what they are and what they do. There are three entry hazards, Spikes, Stealth Rock, and Toxic Spikes:

    Spikes: The original entry hazard introduced in G/S/C. It can be set out in three layers and simply does more damage the more layers that are set out: 12.5% (1/8) of the opponent’s ma HP for one layer, 18.75% (3/16) for two and 25% (1/4) for three. Furthermore this is a Ground move and does not affect Flying type Pokemon or Pokemon with the Levitate ability.

    Stealth Rock: This is the only entry hazard to become a TM, and is also the easiest to set up, and is therefore the most widespread by far. When making a team this is incredibly easy to fit in, and is also incredibly easy to use. Its calculation is strange but still simple. It is a Rock move with a base power of 12.5% (1/8) of the opponent’s max HP, and determines its final damage based on the opponent's weakness to Rock. So a Pokemon who takes neutral damage from Rock moves, such as Gengar, would get 12.5% of its max HP stripped, but a Pokemon with a double weakness to Rock, such as Charizard, would have a whole 50% of its max HP taken away. So if you have any Pokemon who are Stealth Rock weak, being prepared for it (which will be covered later in the article) is an absolute necessity. It should also be mentioned that the only (fully evolved) Pokemon who is immune to Stealth Rock is Clefable, due to its ability.

    Toxic Spikes: This entry hazard is quite unique, being the only one to inflict status on the opponent. Like Spikes, it is set in layers, two this time with a better effect the more layers that are set out. When one layer is out, Pokemon who switch in get poisoned; however, if two layers are out, switching in opponents get badly poisoned (or Toxic poisoned). This doesn’t affect Flying Pokemon, Pokemon with the ability Levitate and Steel Pokemon. Also, if a Poison type Pokemon switches in, not only does it not affect the Pokemon, but the Toxic Spikes are also removed from the field. This does not work if the Poison type Pokemon is also part Flying or has the ability Levitate, (meaning that Gengar and Crobat do not remove Toxic Spikes from the field). Toxic Spikes can be incredibly dangerous for a team not prepared for it, crippling many common walls and tanks.

    Utilizing Entry Hazards

    There are many ways in which entry hazards can be strategically put out on the field, but in this article I will only explain two of the common methods: on a defensive Pokemon and suicide leads.

    On a Defensive Pokemon: Using defensive Pokemon is the most reliable reusable method of setting up entry hazards. Defensive Pokemon with one or two attacking moves and a healing move can often find a place for an entry hazard on its moveset. I’ll use the example of Skarmory, one of the common Pokemon who carries Entry Hazards. Skarmory is a great physical wall; it carries one attacking move (Drill Peck or Brave Bird are standard), a reliable recovery move in the form of Roost, and has two spots open for entry hazards. It can use up those two spaces with both Spikes and Stealth Rock, but the usual option is to choose one of them and use Roar or Whirlwind on the other move to give phazing support. Skarmory has no trouble switching into common physical sweepers and can easily start setting up entry hazards until they decide to switch to something that threatens it.

    Suicide Leads: A fairly new strategy that will nearly always set up an entry hazard, usually at the sacrifice of your lead. The idea is to get a very fast Pokemon who can set up at least one entry hazard (usually Stealth Rock). That Pokemon will also generally have at least one attacking move and Taunt; Taunt blocks other suicide leads and sleep leads, as well as crippling many common leads. I’ll use the example of Aerodactyl. Aerodactyl’s 130 base Speed makes it one of the fastest Pokemon in the game; it can block many leads with a fast Taunt and use the opportunity to set up Stealth Rock. A good Attack stat and a very workable physical movepool also help. Other common users of the strategy are Azelf, who has the handy Explosion, and Infernape.

    Getting Rid of Entry Hazards

    There are three ways of removing entry hazards from the field, but one of them is a joke and another does not need much explanation, so those will only be skimmed over.

    You can remove entry hazards from your opponent’s field, i.e. the ones that you set up, by using Defog. That is the joke. Ha, ha, very funny Game Freak. The second method has already been mentioned: when Toxic Spikes are up, switching in a “grounded” Poison type will remove them, not much to explain there.

    Rapid Spin

    The third method of removing entry hazards is the move Rapid Spin. It’s a Normal Type move with 20 base power, 100% accuracy and 40 PP (64 when PP Ups are included). If Rapid Spin hits, it removes all layers of all entry hazards from your side of the field. As a Normal Type move, it does not hit Ghost Type Pokemon, leading to the strategy of using spinblockers so that your Entry Hazards may stay on the field. The topic of spinblocking will be covered more thoroughly later on in the article. Rapid Spin is not widespread, with only 15 Pokemon learning it and of those only 4 are OU. But using “spinners” and knowing what the spinners are is important, so I will give a brief analysis of each Pokemon that learns Rapid Spin’s capability of using it:

    Armaldo: Decent defenses, a massive Attack stat, and a good amount of other support moves make Armaldo a viable spinner. Although being Stealth Rock weak, without immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes hurt when combined with the lack of reliable recovery. Like many spinners, it can’t really reach its full potential without a Cleric (or a Poison Pokemon) and Wish support. Spinblockers will not often be switching into Armaldo until they know that it is a spinner, one of the advantages of it not being its usual role.

    Blastoise: A very sturdy Pokemon makes a very usable spinner. Blastoise will find its way into many UU teams as a reliable physical tank which gets rid of the entry gazards. Carrying Rest will help this Pokemon out a great deal if you can’t fit other support for its initial problems with passive damage from entry hazards, although Rest always has its risks. Spinblockers fear Yawn and Toxic from Blastoise, making hitting with Rapid Spin an easier job.

    Claydol: It’s in UU, but I don’t know why it hasn’t been popular enough to get the tier bump back to where it deserves to be. In UU and OU it is excellent at spinning. It is immune to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, it resists Stealth Rock, and has good defenses. It can hit incoming Ghosts with Shadow Ball and has plenty of other supporting moves to help its team. The only negative things to say is that it is weak to spinblockers' STAB moves once they get in and that it lacks reliable recovery (and only one spinner has reliable recovery anyway).

    Cloyster: 180 Base Defense always helps, so does being able to set up Spikes and Toxic Spikes. Cloyster makes a good spinner, but not a great one. It’s weak to Stealth Rock and has no immunity to the other two. It still carries considerable bulk on the physical side and can be very usable in UU.

    Delibird: Immunities to Spikes and Toxic Spikes might as well be worthless with a double weakness to Stealth Rock. It has immense difficulty switching in with poor defences and trouble staying in with every other stat being terrible. Put simply its the worst spinner.

    Donphan: Out of the four OU spinners, Donphan is probably the least reliable due to no immunity to Toxic Spikes. It is a great spinner nonetheless. With 120 base Attack and Defense, it can take in shots and dish out some really powerful ones at the same time. It does however get the gimmick of Odor Sleuth, making spinblockers have no immunity to Rapid Spin, while this is at the high cost of a move slot, it is certainly worth considering. Like many of the spinners one tier down, Donphan is best used with Cleric and Wish support.

    Forretress: A Toxic Spikes immunity gives Forretress much greater ease when switching into entry hazards. A great typing combined with 140 base Defense makes it rather easy to switch into shots. Spinblockers will often switch in only to realise that Forretress will just set up its own entry hazards, being one of the only Pokemon who has access to all three. The big problem that Forretress faces is Magnezone, who, when you are without Shed Shell, can trap you in and leave you for an almost certain KO, and that’s your spinner gone.

    Hitmonchan: All of the Hitmons can spin, although it tends to not be used with Hitmonchan and Hitmonlee. All of the Hitmons also have access to the move Foresight, which, like Odor Sleuth, removes Ghosts immunity to Rapid Spin, the Hitmons also see greater reason to use this move, as it also removes Ghosts immunity to their STAB moves. As a spinner Hitmonchan is viable, Drain Punch being an unreliable healing method, and it can hit hard on a large amount of Pokemon rather than being the one to take the shots. Using it for the surprise would be useful if Ghosts wouldn’t be switching into your STAB moves anyway.

    Hitmonlee: Hitmonlee is worse than Hitmonchan at the spinning job, and can be quite a massive threat in many other roles; you can maybe use it as a filler move on a sweeping set, but there are better spinners out there.

    Hitmontop: The best Hitmon spinner has decent defenses (further boosted by Intimidate) and still maintains its ability to hit hard. It still gets hit by Toxic Spikes but on a positive not at least it will block attempts to burn or paralyse. Not the best spinner but still usable.

    Kabutops: It’s a mediocre spinner and can do better jobs in UU, but it can survive the rare occasion of a physical attacker who can’t hit it for super effective damage. On the other side of the coin, spinblockers aren’t going to want to switch into your STAB moves and many won’t expect Rapid Spin, giving you the hit for free (which can be especially when suicide leads are apparent).

    Sandslash: Sandslash is a similar spinner to Donphan for UU and carries the same problems. However, it carries Night Slash and Shadow Claw which helps a lot against incoming spinblockers, and if you can pull off a Swords Dance pretty much no spinblocker will risk switching in on you.

    Starmie: The fastest spinner, who hits hard and takes down many of OU's top sweepers (Gyarados, Infernape, Salamence). Natural Cure means that Toxic Spikes is no problem and Recover makes it the only spinner to have any form of reliable recovery. Timid and 216 Speed EVs makes it able to outspeed the common spinblocker Gengar, but you will need to hit it on the switch to be able to KO it before it KOs you; watch out for Choice Scarfed ones as well. Recover helps it hold up quite nicely against many of the other spinblockers, although a weakness to their STAB moves hurts.

    Tentacruel: Being the only spinner that is Poison gives it the particular niche of automatically removing Toxic Spikes. It also stands out as the best spinner at taking special shots. It has a variety of other support moves and is also quite fast. A great spinner through and through.

    Torkoal: As a fire type (and therefore being Stealth Rock weak, while still lacking Toxic Spikes immunity) its options for spinning are limited. Although it can still do the job, with 140 base Defense helping somewhat. Its STAB moves and its status options also make SpinBlockers wary.

    SpinBlocking

    As was mentioned several times previously, Ghost types stop Rapid Spin from working, which is essential if you want your entry hazards to stay up. You can use your spinplocker in different ways. Defensive Pokemon such as Dusknoir and Spiritomb tend to be very reliable for this, as they are more likely to stay alive longer and they don’t fear Pursuit users as much. Gengar would have to be the only OU Pokemon who is commonly used just to sweep the opponent (although it will often also shut them down with Hypnosis) but its frailty makes it somewhat unreliable to maintain the job. The Rotom Appliances and Mismagius provide a mix of the two former strategies, carrying considerable bulk and power. The Rotom Appliances have actually received quite a bit of popularity to to be able to quite easily handle all four of the OU spinners (barring the rare situation of Life Orb Starmie or Payback Forretress). The Rotom Appliances and Mismagius are the best ones to take on Starmie, as Gengar falls to Starmie if it is hit on the switch.

    Toxic Spikes Weak

    This is just a tip when making a competitive team: beware of the effect of Toxic Spikes. If you’re team is weak to it, you can find all of your bulky Pokemon useless after two turns of staying in, and your sweepers on 1/2 health before they attack. There are many ways to be prepared for Toxic Spikes, and if you see that 4 out of your 6 Pokemon are hit by it, it may be time to consider slotting a “grounded” Poison Type Pokemon somewhere.

    In Conclusion

    To summarise this guide: know how to handle entry hazards and how to utilize them; if you’re not prepared for them they can really cripple you.

    This has actually been my first guide, so I hope that it wasn’t too difficult to read (my syntax has been described as bad before) and hope that it helped.

    Thanks for reading and happy battling!
  2. maddog

    maddog is a master debater
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    I'm assuming you copy+ pasted ths from word, because you have alot of Font tags you need to clean up.

    Most common spin blocker nowadays is Rotom.
  3. hsb39

    hsb39

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    Yeah I did, can I just delete them and it will go back to normal?

    And I mentioned Rotom, especially with it being the best against Starmie, do you think that I should have emphasised it more?

    EDIT: OK that's all fixed up now, so what does everyone think?
  4. maddog

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    Yeah. Also this should probably have posted this in the main thread, although a mod can move it easily enough.

    All you have to do is delete them by editing your post, and yeah it will go back to normal.
  5. hsb39

    hsb39

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    It's all fixed now (yay), which one is the main thread? I have a tendecy to not find things that are directly in front of me...
  6. Serv

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    Small nitpick D/P/Pt or DPPt.

    "1/8" not "1/4".

    "Its" not "it's" possessive.

    Sounds awkward you can go ahead and omit "in".

    TBH I prefer "blocks" over "blocking" but I'll leave that to someone else to confirm.

    Add "a" in between "without" and "cleric".

    Agreeing with Maddog this should have been posted in C&C directly(iirc this forum is for articles already on site that need editing, etc.) Thanks have a nice day ^^.
  7. MetaNite

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    Just a nitpick, but I think you mean own.

    Good information.
  8. hsb39

    hsb39

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    Thanks a heap, all of those are fixed up now. Sorry for posting it in the wrong place, I just noticed that you can scroll down from the subthreads in C&C (aren't I smart...), if a Mod could move this it would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the inconvenience.
  9. jumpluff

    jumpluff you stare right through me
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    I can HTMLise for you. Nice guide. ^_^
  10. RBG

    RBG It feels like a perfect night to dress up like hipsters
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    I would wait until the vote is done for Deoxys in order to publish this, cause the awkward language mentioning it should not be in the article.
  11. hsb39

    hsb39

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    Thanks for the corrections, I've put them in now. And if you could HTMLise I would be incredibly grateful.

    EDIT: The part about Deoxys has been mentioned twice now (although the awkward part is out now). When is the Deoxys vote?
  12. RBG

    RBG It feels like a perfect night to dress up like hipsters
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    It is currently happening. We should know within 24 hrs.
  13. Mekkah

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    No need to note the tier of the Pokemon: just link them to the Smogon analyses. The tiers are updated there.
  14. maddog

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    LO Starmie does 2HKO appliance-Rotom so it is a good option to break stall from putting damn spikes out all the time.

    Also, ubers it is really hard to spin, because of Girtina. Might be worth a meniton.
  15. cim

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    Ugh, CamelCase words look horrible. It's not even capitalized, so mid sentence just call it spin blocking and spin blocker, okay? Please?
  16. jumpluff

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    Yeah, I have to agree with Chris. When you're done with this and gotten the nod from Great Sage/Blue Kirby/ryubahamut et al., PM me =)
  17. hsb39

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    I'm not exactly sure how to do that (technologically illiterate), hopefully Misaki-chi can help there.

    I'll be going over the corrections over the weekend (I might get time during the week if I'm lucky), including further emphasis on Rotom Aplliances and removing CamelCase (and removing the stuff on Deoxys-S, just been made Uber).

    And Misaky-chi, do I just PM Great Sage/Blue Kirby etc. to get the nod from them?
  18. Imran

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    To link the names to the analysis, open a new tab and find the page in the analysis. Then take the URL of that page, and copy it. Then go back to This document (On Smogon) and highlight the text you want to hyperlink, and cliuck the add hyperlink button (The button that looks like a globe with a link in front of it [It also looks like it is weraing glasses if that helps]) The a box will come up, paste the URL into it and then click OK. You will then have your hyperlink.

    Alternatively copy this:

    [URL*="http://<Insert URL here>"]<Insert Text here>[/URL*]

    And add in the nessecary information, here is an example

    [URL*="http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/lucario"]Lucario[/URL*]

    Removing the Stars of course ;)

    Hope this helps ;D
  19. jumpluff

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    It's ok, I'll do it for you [for the record the code is <a href="/dp/pokemon/celebi">Celebi</a> etc., and Twash gave you the code for linking on the forums], and yeah, I would just PM one of them when you're done and ask them to approve it. ^_^
  20. Imran

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    Misaki... Please

    or am i missing something as usual?

    Additionally. I don't know what Smogon's stance on this one is. I understand that it injects Humour into the article, but for a beginner it is not instantly obvious why delibird is a bad spinner. Once you realise SR weakness, pitifull attempts at stopping spin blocking etc... you realise it's not worth it, but might it be a good idea to mention those facts?
  21. SithLord

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    Agreeing w/Goldfan here...you could mention that Delibird's only selling point as the only spinner apart from Claydol with immunity to both Spikes/Toxic Spikes; however this immunity is greatly hampered by a critical weakness to Stealth Rock

    Nice article, though, very comprehensive.
  22. hsb39

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    Put in the corrections and will probably get the thumbs up a bit later. In the meantime was there any mistakes that I made in the corrections? (And imperfectluck I'll admit that I pretty much stole my stuff off you for the Rotom Appliances, couldn't think of a better way to word it... hope you don't mind).
  23. Great Sage

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    This article seems a little thin for moves so pivotal to the metagame. Expand some of the descriptions and explanations.
  24. hsb39

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    Any suggestions as to where? For example, I don't think that the explanations of what the entry hazards do need any more explanation, and I read in the rules that I should be steering away from Pokemon analysis. It's strange, most of my comments have been about cutting down on stuff. I probably could do something for all of the common spinblockers that I did with the spinners, if you think that that would be useful...
  25. Lemmiwinks MkII

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    I'm not sure if I should be suggesting anything here, but I think the Hitmons and Donphan deserve an additional mention for their access to Foresight / Odor Sleuth, which allows them to bypass any attempt by the opponent to block spin with a Ghost type. No real additional use for Donphan, but the Hitmons also get to hurt said Ghosts with their STAB attacks when using Foresight, which is particularly useful against Spiritomb as it becomes weak to Fighting.

    Not a common tactic by any means, but potentially useful for teams that absolutely need to keep the field clear. Or against teams that rely on suicide leads to set up their entry hazards (and a sturdy Ghost for spin-blocking), as they usually die early and therefore cannot set them up again once spun away. It is pretty much the only way to guarantee spin and it is therefore a defining niche for these 4 Pokemon that deserves some mention on a comprehensive guide like this.

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