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Eruption

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Harsha, May 12, 2012.

  1. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
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    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
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    Eruption

    [​IMG]

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    Introduction

    Those of you that know me know that I am mostly an offensively oriented player, though I can play defensive teams as well. However, most of my success as a battler has come with offensive teams, and weather has often been a crucial part of my game plan. While this has never wavered, I realized quickly, with the posting of Delko's great sun RMT, that I had never actually made a successful sun team. However, that never really motivated me to pursue building a good sun team. Instead, it was the testing of a Magma Storm Heatran set that I had heard about—I was writing the analysis for it and I decided that I needed to play with it for a bit. Well, I was more than impressed; it combined offense and defense for sun teams very well, and it worked exceptionally well in dealing with opposing weather, normally a pain in the ass for sun teams to face.

    However, that in itself was not enough for me to take sun teams seriously. Sure, Chlorophyll sweepers are great, but the dependence on sun seriously limits how effective these teams are without weather. Considering the frailty of Ninetales, a ubiquitous Pokémon on sun teams, I had a hard time taking my Magma Storm Heatran team out to battle, though I did decide to revamp it one day. The team in its current state has not suffered a single loss yet, and while that is obviously prone to change, I'm quite proud of it. Maybe it's because most sun teams tend to look very similar, but the team has done extremely well for me, especially considering the dependence on sun from my team members. Anyways, it's been a while since I've posted my last RMT, and I may be rusty so bear with me. I don't want to bore you with a mound of text, so let's take a closer look!

    Closer Look

    [​IMG]
    Ninetales @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 144 HP / 252 SpA / 112 Spe
    Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
    - SolarBeam
    - Sunny Day
    - Fire Blast
    - Toxic

    Most people complain that Ninetales is the worst weather inducer in the tier. Honestly, I've never had a problem with it. Ninetales outspeeds standard Gliscor sets and holds up well enough against rain teams, most of which seem to have an inherent advantage over sun teams. However, if you have to ask me what Ninetales set I use, I will never respond with anything other than Sunny Day Ninetales. Honestly, every other Ninetales set is garbage, as they don't contribute to winning the ubiquitous weather war. The spread is standard fare—I need Ninetales to outspeed every other weather inducer and retain decent bulk. Additionally, Ninetales retains some attacking prowess, and SolarBeam and Fire Blast do fairly well against most Pokémon. Toxic is normally for walls that are hard to break down through sheer force and other weather inducers, as poisoning them severely limits their durability.

    Sunny Day—while it seems strange—should not be new to anyone lurking this forum. It allows me to set my weather while Tyranitar, Hippowdon, or Politoed switch in. This is especially important because it allows me to gain momentum, one of the most important factors in today's games. Usually, I'll simply switch to Starmie against rain teams or Dugtrio against sand teams; they usually are able to hold their own weight. While I may have considered Will-O-Wisp on earlier builds of this team, I never used it in the finalized version because as it stands, I believe rain teams are more problematic for my own team to face. Additionally, no sand sweeper can really wreck much havoc on my team, as I can deal with most through using my defensive synergy. I generally tend to limit the amount of times I switch Ninetales in, as its weakness to Stealth Rock and lack of immunity to both Spikes and Toxic Spikes mean that it won't live for very long. Typically, I only attack with Ninetales when opposing weather inducers have been KOed, as it's near useless to use Fire Blast when you know Tyranitar or Politoed are going to come in and simply have their way if you let them. Toxic is usually what I use, as playing it safe early gives me room to be reckless later on in the match.

    [​IMG]
    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe | 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Hidden Power Fire
    - Thunderbolt
    - Rapid Spin
    - Ice Beam

    Starmie plays a monumental role on this team, as it acts as my spinner and protector against rain teams. Spinning is simply essential for this team to function properly; without a Rapid Spin user, Ninetales can only switch in 5 times assuming Stealth Rock is on the field, and Dragonite and Venusaur and the rest of my frail sweepers and wall breakers are severely limited. I chose to use Starmie over common spinners seen on sun teams such as Donphan and Forretress because Starmie offers Speed, reliability, and offense. My beef with Donphan is that it only compounds a Water-type weakness in exchange for a "check" to Dragons. Forretress is offensively dead weight, and it just doesn't fit in with this bunch of Pokémon, even if I have considered it before. Something that you may have noticed about Starmie is that its main STAB is reduced by half in the sun. However, if you look at my set, I don't actually run a Water-type move. In fact, I run Hidden Power Fire to catch the ubiquitous Ferrothorn that try to impede Starmie's spinning. It's also useful considering the ubiquity of Choice Band Scizor, one of the figureheads of this current metagame.

    Obviously maxmimum Speed and Special Attack allow me to check threats. While I could have gone with a bulkier build for Starmie, I eventually concluded that I would rather have power over bulk. Ice Beam and Thunderbolt give me BoltBeam coverage, and with this coverage, I can check otherwise large threats of Gyarados and Dragon-types. Additionally, I get an answer to opposing rain, as Starmie is an excellent Water-type resisting Pokémon. While I do have to lose a Speed IV in order to run Hidden Power Fire, this is often not meaningful, as Starmie would neither OHKO opposing Starmie or Raikou regardless. If I ever do run into either of those two, I tend to set up appropriately by using either Venusaur or Dugtrio respectively.

    Defensively, Starmie is often used as my pivot against rain teams. I always turn to Starmie whenever an opponent brings out Politoed unless the opposing Politoed is at low health. If that is the case, I simply attack it and bring out Ninetales soon after to prevent rampaging Tornadus or other rain abusers. Should Dragon-spamming teams ever become more common in the metagame, I will give serious consideration to using Forretress instead of Starmie. However, Forretress fails to mop up special attacks, and with mediocre Speed, I have often felt that it would slow me down far too much. As odd as it may seem, Starmie is placed perfectly on this team with its typing.

    [​IMG]
    Dragonite @ Choice Band
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Punch
    - Outrage

    Choice Band Dragonite packs some serious power that my team really appreciates. While it does have a debilitating weakness to Stealth Rock, something that sun teams never appreciate, I can always count on Dragonite delivering a devastating blow. With Rapid Spin support, I don't have to worry too much about losing Multiscale, and with ExtremeSpeed, Dragonite's middling Speed is not an issue. While the Dragon Dance set is a potent sweeper, I chose to not use it because Choice Scarf Landorus, Choice Scarf Salamence, Choice Scarf Terrakion, and Choice Scarf Latios are all still significant threats in the metagame. While I may not be able to sweep with this Dragonite, I can punch holes to my heart's content. Even the sturdiest of walls such as Skarmory fear the Dragon, as Fire Punch deals decent damage, especially with pseudo STAB in the sun.

    Typically, I use Outrage to do as much damage as possible when all opposing Steel-types are eliminated. It punches holes in the opponent's team and makes Dragonite an amazing wall-breaker. Fire Punch and Earthquake give Dragonite perfect coverage together, and they allow me to predict opponents' moves and react accordingly. While I could have chosen Dragon Claw in the fourth slot to allow Dragonite to use a STAB move that lacks drawbacks, I found that I typically only use Outrage if I need a Dragon-type move to fall back on. ExtremeSpeed gives me a major cushion considering Dragonite's low base Speed, as +2 priority is always appreciated. This allows me to take down weakened Salamence, Landorus, and other Pokémon that would normally cause me a bit of trouble. Starmie that think they can get away with a quick Ice Beam tend to regret attacking as well.

    Defensively, Dragonite is no slouch. It provides me with a key Water-type resistance and allows me to take down many offensive rain teams with impunity. While it resists Water moves, I tend to turn to Venusaur for more stall-oriented rain teams. Honestly, I've never had a problem with rain stall because Starmie has done so well spinning against those types of teams. Jellicent, Starmie's worst enemy, is hardly ever found on rain stall, as it simply gives these teams a major weakness to Electric-type attacks. Thus, I only am faced with Ferrothorn whenever I attempt to use Rapid Spin, and I can simply turn to Heatran and use Magma Storm for the next two turns. With Starmie's spinning and Heatran's removal of vital members, Dragonite finds plenty of opportunities to punch holes. Either way, I have rain covered between Dragonite, Venusaur, and Starmie.

    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Magma Storm
    - Earth Power
    - Taunt
    - Toxic

    Heatran is likely the MVP of my team. While Magma Storm Heatran is certainly a rare sight in this metagame, it does its job extremely well—so well that I have even considered using it in teams other than sun. Its importance on the team and general power makes it one of the biggest threats around. Additionally, its utility outside of simply hitting hard cannot be ignored. Heatran is vital because it demolishes anything that walls my Venusaur, one of my main sweepers on this team. This Heatran set even beats Chansey and Blissey, something not just any Pokémon can brag about. "Did he say it beats Blissey and Chansey..? What is he talking about?" This set does beat Blissey and Chansey, as the combination of Magma Storm's trapping and Taunt's shutting down recovery gives me an inherent advantage. Coupled with Toxic, the blobs tend to go down without a fight, especially because they do not usually use Seismic Toss as a first reaction to Heatran. Additionally, more and more Blissey have began to carry just Flamethrower, so they can't even touch Heatran.

    Heatran isn't solely for beating down the blobs, as that would just be overspecialization. Instead, I also use it to cover Dragon-types that pose a threat to every sun team. Without Hidden Power Ice, Heatran doesn't exactly pose an immediate threat, but Magma Storm certainly does not lack any power, especially considering that Heatran is in the sun. Earth Power hits the likes of opposing Heatran and other Fire-type Pokémon very hard, and it provides great coverage along with Magma Storm. Of course, if the opponent carries a Dugtrio, I play much more conservatively than I normally would with Heatran—I definitely do not want to lose my MVP quickly, and it performs so well. Without Heatran, my team is hurt badly by the presence of opposing special walls, and I honestly need it to be there when I am faced with something like opposing Chansey or Jirachi. Taunt is useful even when I am not faced with Chansey or Blissey, as it prevents Pokémon like Jellicent from using Recover, and with the sun up, Jellicent does pitiful damage to Heatran.

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    Venusaur @ Leftovers
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe | 2 Atk / 30 Def
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Hidden Power Ice
    - Sleep Powder
    - SolarBeam
    - Growth / Sunny Day

    Venusaur is a mixed bag of both good and bad things. For one, it provides a major offensive presence that really puts lots of teams away quickly, but it also gives my team a major dependence on sun from Ninetales. While this is not necessarily bad considering that I have two trappers and some hard-hitters that work decently outside of the sun, I don't like to rely on my weather too much. However, Venusaur hits so hard that I simply could not ignore it. Usually, I only bring Venusaur in after something on my team has been KOed or I predict a double switch—it's basically never switched in directly. However, if I use it and there is a threat in my face, say Choice Scarf Salamence for the sake of an example, I'll simply use Sleep Powder and proceed to boost my Special Attack to sky-high levels with Growth. However, there is a problem here: Salamence resists all the moves I use as coverage. For this reason, as soon as I started seeing more and more Salamence, I began to use Sludge Bomb in the place of Sleep Powder, as it takes more than half of Salamence's health. Considering that it also provides an extra STAB move, I don't always miss Sleep Powder, though I tend to switch around from time to time. At the suggestion of Delko, I switched Hidden Power Fire for Hidden Power Ice, and the change has worked wonders with my prior weakness to Dragon-types.

    As I said earlier with Heatran, removal of Blissey and Chansey on balance teams is vital for Venusaur's sweep. However, on stall-oriented teams, I tend to only send Venusaur out after my weather has proven dominant. If that's the case, I can simply put Chansey or Blissey to sleep, provided that I am using Sleep Powder. At +6, there isn't much that really stands in Venusaur's way, as even Blissey is OHKOed by +6 SolarBeam. Hidden Power Ice destroys Choice Scarf Salamence, a giant threat to my team as it stood. Additionally, with a Timid nature, Venusaur outspeed Choice Scarf Terrakion, so I have that threat covered adequately. While I had considered Sawsbuck in Venusaur's place at one point, Venusaur had much more bulk that I found would be more appropriate for this team. Sawsbuck also opens my team up to Scizor more, so I like Venusaur in its place.

    Defensively, I use Venusaur much like I use Dragonite—it provides an ever-important resistance to Water-type moves. Additionally, it holds super effective moves against all other weather inducers, though admittedly this isn't always useful considering that Venusaur needs the sun to successfully beat them. Of course, Sunny Day Ninetales makes this goal much easier, and it immensely aids Venusaur in its late-game sweep. I tend to play Venusaur more recklessly than other Pokémon because it is somewhat frail and powerful. Still, Venusaur does have its own set of defensive capabilities, and it's simply a great addition to every sun team. Recently, I have began using Sunny Day in the place of Growth for a secondary weather inducer. With this change, while I lose a boosting sweeper, I gain an easier weather war.

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    Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe | 21 HP
    Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Substitute / Stone Edge
    - Reversal

    Dugtrio is my second trapper and user of Stealth Rock. With Heatran's moveset taken up by Magma Storm, I needed an offensive Pokémon to pick up some slack and lay Stealth Rock with ease. While Mamoswine was another Ground-type option I could have used, I decided to go with Dugtrio because it has the added utility of trapping opposing Tyranitar. With that in, I have a much easier time controlling weather, and obviously this contributes to winning battles. In theory, Dugtrio is supposed to use Stealth Rock while the opponent uses Stealth Rock as well, and then use Substitute 4 times to reach its Focus Sash; however, it usually uses Stealth Rock on the first turn and loses all its health down to 1 HP because of the Focus Sash. Then it can KO the opponent with either Reversal or Earthquake. Should Stealth Rock be vital at some point in the match, and Stealth Rock already lie on my field, I sometimes have to sacrifice Dugtrio's Focus Sash to put down Stealth Rock.

    To be completely honest, other than lay Stealth Rock and trap opposing weather inducers, Dugtrio doesn't really do much else. It does do a good job of eliminating opposing Heatran, though, as Heatran tends to get annoying with its walling Venusaur. Air Balloon variants have to have their Air Balloon popped before I can do much, as Earthquake does not affect them. I tend to use a different teammate to knock Heatran off its Balloon before switching to Dugtrio. Starmie is usually my best bet, though offensive versions still trouble Starmie because they still do plenty of damage, and because I lack a Water-type STAB move. Either way, Heatran is adequately checked and covered by a combination of a teammate and Dugtrio. Typically, Dugtrio only sees the sunlight when I play against a weather-based team, though it can be useful against other types of teams, as it can dismantle DragMag teams by ridding the field of Magnezone, and consequently it can give me the upper hand in these situations. Stone Edge is sometimes used in the place of Substitute because it prevents Dugtrio from becoming dead weight against opposing Dragonite that attempt to set up on Dugtrio. It's been a good change, though I do use Substitute now and then because it allows me to avoid Will-O-Wisp and stuff like that. It also allows me to set up against frailer teams against things that can't harm me and later wreak havoc.

    Threat List

    [​IMG] Abomasnow: Abomasnow never has a chance to do much to my team, even against the weakest link of Dugtrio. Stealth Rock really limits the times it can switch in, and with Stone Edge on Dugtrio, it doesn't have much of an opportunity to do anything. This holds especially true considering that four of my team members carry Fire-type moves, so it can never switch safely. Hail abusing teams, in a nutshell, cannot hold their own against my team for the most part.

    [​IMG] Aerodactyl:
    Aerodactyl is barely ever seen in OU, but it is always a big offensive threat that every team should cover adequately. Venusaur outpaces Aerodactyl under sunlight, and it can put Aerodactyl to sleep and either boost with Growth or simply attack with SolarBeam if I am running a Sunny Day set. Heatran can tank a hit if it doesn't carry Earthquake, but generally, I tend to stick with Starmie or Venusaur.

    [​IMG] Alakazam: Alakazam is a threat for every team to worry about, but I find that I deal with it adequately. With Venusaur, I can always outpace it under the sun, and I can simply put it to sleep or, if it no longer has its Focus Sash, I can just KO it outright. Should it have it Life Orb, it is actually easier to deal with, though switching in is always tough. Dragonite can also do major damage with ExtremeSpeed and Ninetales can soak up a hit and use Fire Blast.

    [​IMG] Blissey:
    Despite what it looks like, I actually lick my lips every time I see a Blissey. Heatran deals with it exceptionally well with Magma Storm and Taunt, though with the posting of this team, most people have grown wary of the notorious Magma Storm Heatran. Taunt shuts down its recovery and Toxic chips away at its health. It really gets rendered useless by Heatran, and after I dismantle it, Venusaur can run rampant. The version with Growth Venusaur actually can simply put Blissey to sweep and then boost and OHKO it at +6.

    [​IMG] Breloom:
    With four Fire-type moves on this team, Breloom simply never gets a chance to set up. Heatran outpaces every variant of Breloom and shuts it down with Magma Storm, while Ninetales and Dragonite do the same. Starmie can even use Hidden Power Fire to KO it if weakened sufficiently. Venusaur can set up against Breloom, and it can't do much back considering I would put it to sleep before it would put me to sleep. The only team member liable to Breloom is Dugtrio, and I usually sac it to Spore and then beat it with another teammate.

    [​IMG] Celebi: Celebi isn't much of a problem for my team, just as Breloom, because of all the super effective coverage I have against it. Nasty Plot variants tend to carry Hidden Power Fire, Giga Drain, and Earth Power, so I can simply use Dragonite to beat those. Tinkerbell can spread paralysis of course, but I usually just beat it down with brute force. Besides, it doesn't get an opportunity to come in and set up unless someone sends it out against Starmie or Dugtrio. Ninetales and Heatran beat down sets that lack Earth Power, and fortunately, this is most Celebi sets.

    [​IMG] Chansey:
    Chansey is basically dealt with in the same way as I deal with Blissey, though it does have a bit more bulk to boast. Regardless, Heatran will demolish it one on one, though it does stand a better chance if it uses Seismic Toss as a first response to Heatran instead of attempting to lay Stealth Rock or something of the sort. Regardless, it can be dealt with without too much trouble, and Dragonite is always lurking should Chansey not fall.

    [​IMG] Cloyster:
    This is not a very big problem considering that most of my team is specially based, so Cloyster will not get many opportunities to set up. Venusaur outpaces Cloyster even after it uses Shell Smash, and I can revenge kill rampant Cloyster, should their HP be low enough, with Dragonite's ExtremeSpeed. Additionally, Starmie does fairly well against Cloyster.

    [​IMG] Conkeldurr:
    Conkeldurr's usage has declined tremendously, but it definitely is still a good Pokémon. I tend to put it to sleep with Venusaur and then kill it off as quickly as possible, as it can do a ton of damage if its sweep goes unimpeded. Heatran OHKOes Conkeldurr with Magma Storm almost all the time, and this is guaranteed after Stealth Rock damage. I haven't really run into this much, but it isn't too problematic. It certainly packs a punch, though, and I have to watch for it.

    [​IMG] Deoxys-D:
    While Deoxys-D's relative ease in setting down entry hazards is concerning, especially for a sun team, I generally have a fairly good answer for it. If it is not sent out as a lead and I have my sun left, I can use Venusaur's Sleep Powder to put it to sleep even before it even gets Stealth Rock down, though this is generally never the case. I tend to use Heatran's Magma Storm to take it down early on in the match and let Starmie clean up the field later on. Using Starmie as an immediate answer has recently stopped working because many Deoxys-D have begun to use Electric Gems with Thunderbolt.

    [​IMG] Donphan:
    Donphan isn't very problematic considering that it usually only has Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock, Earthquake, and Ice Shard. While Ice Shard is useful in checking Dragonite, Earthquake really only does major damage to Ninetales and Heatran. For this reason, I usually just switch to Starmie, as I both threaten to use Rapid Spin and remove Stealth Rock or use Ice Beam to get rid of Donphan.

    [​IMG] Dragonite:
    Dragonite is generally a giant threat for any team this generation, and mine is certainly no exception. However, the biggest key to removing opposing Dragonite is getting Stealth Rock down early on in the match. With this, I ensure that Dragonite's Multiscale no longer functions, and Venusaur can OHKO Dragonite with a swift Hidden Power Ice. My own Dragonite can check others with ExtremeSpeed. Choice Band variants are easier to check because if they use ExtremeSpeed, I can simply switch to Heatran. Starmie can beat down Dragonite if it uses another move to KO one of my team members.

    [​IMG] Dugtrio:
    Dugtrio is actually a troublesome Pokémon to face for any sun team, especially this one. Because Heatran does not have an Air Balloon, I cannot use it to its fullest extent until after I eliminate opposing Dugtrio. This is generally done by using Venusaur or Dragonite, as the former has a higher Speed assuming sun is active, and the latter has useful priority that puts a full stop to all Dugtrio.

    [​IMG] Espeon:
    Espeon is generally only seen on Baton Pass or sun teams, and for both variants, I generally switch in Heatran to just use Magma Storm and either OHKO or 2HKO it. Dragonite is another decent answer, and with ExtremeSpeed, it can hit Espeon before getting hit. Dugtrio outpaces Espeon and can do major damage due to its Focus Sash, though this isn't my favorite, or preferred, option.

    [​IMG] Ferrothorn:
    Ferrothorn is just bait for Heatran. I've never seen a problematic Ferrothorn because I carry four Fire-type moves, so it can't really ever find an opportunity to set up entry hazards against me. Ferrothorn only ever comes out against Starmie to threaten with Power Whip or Dragonite to soak up Outrage, though I can hit it hard with Hidden Power Fire in the case of the former or predict a switch and hit it with Fire Punch for the latter.

    [​IMG] Forretress:
    Forretress does nothing other than set up entry hazards and use Rapid Spin. I generally just switch to Heatran and use Magma Storm, though if I need to remove entry hazards quickly, I can switch to Starmie. Hidden Power Fire demolishes Forretress anyways, so it doesn't really make a big difference as long as it cannot set up too many entry hazards.

    [​IMG] Gastrodon:
    Gastrodon is no problem with Venusaur covering me, as Venusaur simply demolishes it with an immunity to Toxic and Grass-type STAB. Should it attempt to attack my Ninetales, I just roast it with SolarBeam or use Toxic to weaken it sufficiently. Dragonite's Outrage isn't very kind to Gastrodon either.

    [​IMG] Gengar:
    Gengar is a threat that should be taken care of immediately because it blocks Rapid Spin, which is very problematic for an offensive sun team such as my own. I generally fall back on Ninetales to do damage, though Gengar has a high base Speed, so I sometimes have to use Venusaur to put it to sleep and then attack it.

    [​IMG] Gliscor:
    Gliscor never really gets too much of an opportunity to do damage as far as it is concerned threat-wise. Fire Blast from Ninetales and Magma Storm from Heatran, both of which outspeed standard Gliscor, demolish the sand bat, and Hidden Power Ice from Venusaur and Ice Beam from Starmie ensure that it doesn't cause too much trouble.

    [​IMG] Gyarados:
    Gyarados is generally taken care of by Starmie, who can simply use Thunderbolt to take it down. Gyarados's main STAB is halved in power by the sun, so it is crucial to keep sun in play when battling these. Venusaur can also keep it in check, though generally I prefer playing with Starmie.

    [​IMG] Haxorus:
    Haxorus is a tough Pokémon to take down because it has pure Dragon typing, so Ice moves don't necessarily always OHKO it. Still, Venusaur does well as a check, and if worse comes to worst, I can always use Dragonite's ExtremeSpeed to take it down. Starmie can use Ice Beam on all variants other than Choice Scarf, while the Choice-locked variants simply require proper prediction.

    [​IMG] Heatran:
    Opposing Heatran cause a bit of a bother if they are offensive with an Air Balloon. I tend to use Dugtrio to solve this problem, and with a Focus Sash, I can use Reversal to break the Air Balloon and Earthquake to KO Heatran. Should it be a specially defensive Heatran, all I must do is use Earthquake from either Dugtrio or Dragonite. My own Heatran can use Earth Power as well if it is sufficiently weakened.

    [​IMG] Hippowdon:
    Hippowdon is generally dealt with by Starmie, as Ice Beam does respectable damage. Venusaur can come in and use Sunny Day to cancel out Hippowdon's Sand Stream, though I only do this in the late-game. Heatran's Magma Storm, of course, does major damage, though I only risk this if Hippowdon is sufficiently weakened, as I don't want to lose Heatran too early.

    [​IMG] Hydreigon:
    Substitute variants of Hydreigon are generally dealt with by Starmie fairly decently, though they are problematic. I can revenge kill them with Venusaur or Dragonite, though, so they're not too bad. Choice Scarf variants simply require proper prediction to outplay them.

    [​IMG] Infernape:
    Infernape is not that big of a problem because while it has a killer base Speed stat, its Attack and Special Attack are a bit disappointing. Dragonite can generally tank most hits and retaliate with massive damage, while Starmie can do the same and attack with Thunderbolt. Dugtrio can trap it if need be and eliminate it with a swift Earthquake.

    [​IMG] Jellicent:
    Heatran completely shuts down Jellicent, especially in the sun. With Magma Storm, Jellicent won't be able to switch out, while Taunt shuts down its recovery and Toxic ruins its durability. While Jellicent can use Scald, it won't do very much under the sunlight.

    [​IMG] Jirachi:
    Jirachi poses a threat to every team, though mine has a relatively easy time with it due to all the Fire-type moves I carry. Generally, I use Heatran to take this thing down, and when that is done successfully, it opens up a hole to sweep with Venusaur. Ninetales can do the same if need be.

    [​IMG] Jolteon:
    Jolteon is not a very big threat because it is too frail to stay in and do any major damage to my team. Additionally, the sun cuts its main move's accuracy, and Heatran and Ninetales demolish it when need be. Dragonite's ExtremeSpeed is also an extremely solid answer. Should it be Choice-locked, Dugtrio can come in and set up Stealth Rock and a Substitute on it.

    [​IMG] Kyurem:
    To be completely honest, this thing isn't used in OU for a reason. With a weakness to the ubiquitous Stealth Rock, it rarely finds a good opportunity to switch in, and with many powerful attackers on this team, it rarely ever gets a chance to set up. Ninetales can sponge a hit and attack it if need be, and Dragonite does well with ExtremeSpeed.

    [​IMG] Landorus:
    Landorus is a tough Pokémon for most sun teams to face, though I do have many checks to it. For one, Starmie is able to take down non Choice Scarf variants. Dragonite can take down any variant provided that it is weakened sufficiently, and Venusaur destroys all variants of Landorus with Hidden Power Ice.

    [​IMG] Latias:
    Typically I rely on Heatran to take down Latias. With Taunt and Magma Storm, it usually cannot set up much, and I can simply use Toxic on it and let it die. This method works for SubCM Latias, but standard Calm Mind Latias is much easier to deal with considering Substitute does not shield it from status.

    [​IMG] Latios:
    Much like for Latias, Heatran is my main switch-in for Latios as well. I usually attack with Magma Storm which takes over half of Latios's health, and then I simply kill it on the next turn. Dragonite can take down weakened variants, as can Venusaur, and Starmie can do the same provided that they do not run a Choice Scarf.

    [​IMG] Lucario:
    Should Stealth Rock be off the field and Dugtrio's Focus Sash stay intact, Lucario is no problem. However, once Dugtrio is gone, my only method of beating Lucario is sacrificing a Pokémon to allow Dragonite to come in and revenge kill it. This is probably the biggest threat to my team, but in essence, I can avoid it by careful play. Nasty Plot variants cannot do much, though.

    [​IMG] Magnezone:
    Magnezone gets wrecked by Dugtrio because it gets trapped and Dugtrio's STAB is 4x super effective. Additionally, I have a Focus Sash to ensure that Magnezone cannot OHKO me while I can take it out, even if it has a Substitute up. Combine this with all the Fire-type moves I have and Magnezone doesn't look very fearsome at all.

    [​IMG] Mamoswine:
    Starmie is my main switch-in for Mamoswine if it has a Focus Sash, as it can either use Rapid Spin to get rid of Stealth Rock or beat it down with Hidden Power Fire. Dragonite checks weakened Mamoswine because of ExtremeSpeed, and should it be Adamant, Heatran can outpace it and demolish it with Magma Storm. Generally, I rely on careful play around Mamoswine. This is one of those threats that I don't really have a dedicated switch-in for. I let the flow of the battle lead me to Venusaur, Starmie, or Dragonite before KOing it, though it is a threat.

    [​IMG] Metagross:
    Metagross is generally a non-threat because of all the Fire coverage I am armed with. Typically, I'll switch to Starmie because it resists Metagross's STABs, and then I'll just attack with Hidden Power Fire. I can also use Heatran or Ninetales if I'm daring enough, but typically I stick with Starmie.

    [​IMG] Ninetales:
    Ninetales's is relatively easy to deal with—all I have to do is switch to Heatran and use whatever I want. Ninetales can only ever touch Heatran if it carries Hidden Power Ground or Hidden Power Fighting, and because these are very rare cases, Heatran is usually my go-to Pokémon.

    [​IMG] Politoed:
    Politoed is beaten in two sittings by Heatran. It can use Toxic on the first switch in, while I usually then switch to Starmie. The next sitting, I use Magma Storm on the switch, and then Politoed is trapped and poisoned. With that, I can use Earth Power until it dies, or then trap it with Dugtrio if Heatran dies. Venusaur also does relatively well against Politoed.

    [​IMG] Reuniclus:
    Reuniclus is definitely the biggest threat for my team, and I have to play very carefully around it. For either Calm Mind or Trick Room sets, I turn to Dragonite to just use Outrage. While the situation changes with each battle, this is one threat I need to get rid of immediately.

    [​IMG] Rotom-W:
    Rotom-W is surprisingly diverse, but all of them are dealt with in the same way by my team. Venusaur's SolarBeam takes it out immediately, though it usually forces Rotom-W to switch. Either way, its secondary STAB is weakened by the sun, and it can't do too much to my team.

    [​IMG] Salamence:
    While Salamence used to be problematic for this team, Hidden Power Ice on Venusaur cured me of this problem altogether. Should Salamence be rampaging at low health and Venusaur be KOed, I can use Dragonite's ExtremeSpeed to take it down, though I try to avoid this move at all costs.

    [​IMG] Scizor:
    This team wrecks Scizor because as I've stated before, four of my Pokémon carry Fire-type moves. Starmie usually invites Scizor who are hungry for a U-turn and momentum, though they must be surprised that Hidden Power Fire destroys them. Honestly, Scizor is usually the weakest link on the opponent's team against mine. The surprise value of my Starmie set diminishes with my posting of this team, though, so I'm sure people will be more cautious with their Scizor.

    [​IMG] Scrafty:
    Scrafty is pretty easy to face off against, as I usually turn to Venusaur and put it to sleep. Once that is done, I just have to keep attacking it. Of course, Dragonite can use Outrage to do tremendous damage, and I have other options here as well. It's not too big of a threat.

    [​IMG] Skarmory:
    I've never had a team that was as happy to invite Skarmory as this one. Skarmory is setup fodder for Heatran, Ninetales, and Starmie, and Starmie has the added benefit of having Rapid Spin. Skarmory cannot even wall Dragonite properly because Fire Punch deals major damage in the sun with a Choice Band.

    [​IMG] Starmie:
    Defensive variants of Starmie are never a threat, as Ninetales deals with them adequately. However, offensive Starmie generally have to be dealt with by either Dragonite's ExtremeSpeed if sufficiently weakened or Venusaur's SolarBeam should I be able to switch it in safely.

    [​IMG] Tentacruel:
    Tentacruel is pretty easy to deal with, as Starmie does a lot of damage to it. With Rapid Spin and Natural Cure, Tentacruel can't really do too much to Starmie. When the sun is up, I can use Heatran to take it down with Earth Power. Dragonite and Venusaur can also take it down fairly well, though I try to avoid using them for this purpose.

    [​IMG] Terrakion:
    Venusaur outpaces Terrakion under the sun, and Dugtrio can survive a hit and retaliate back due to its Focus Sash. While Terrakion is definitely a huge threat that should never be taken lightly, I can usually play around it by controlling the weather and ensuring that it can never set up.

    [​IMG] Tornadus:
    This is always a threat that must be accounted for, and luckily, I can change the weather to render Choice Specs variants useless. Bulk Up Tornadus simply must be stopped before it can set up, as there really is no other way to counter this with a pure offensive team. Of course, most special moves will KO it regardless.

    [​IMG] Toxicroak:
    Toxicroak really struggles against this team, particularly because the sun takes away some of its HP every turn. With Dragonite's ExtremeSpeed and Dugtrio's Focus Sash, I generally don't have problems facing these.

    [​IMG] Tyranitar:
    My methods of dealing with Tyranitar have already been revealed earlier in the RMT, though to reiterate, I deal with it through trapping it with either Heatran or Dugtrio. Once trapped, Tyranitar cannot do much, and I win the weather war and usually the match. Using Toxic on the switch in usually works well also.

    [​IMG] Vaporeon:
    Vaporeon's STAB is reduced by half due to the sun, and with Venusaur, it can't do very much to my team. I generally put it to sleep before attacking it with SolarBeam, and it can't do very much in return. I can also use Dragonite to take it down with Outrage, though this is generally only in the late-game or as a last resort.

    [​IMG] Venusaur:
    Venusaur isn't very problematic at all for this team because I carry Heatran who shuts it down completely. Additionally, Dragonite doles out major damage with ExtremeSpeed, while I can pick up the slack with Ninetales who won't be OHKOed by Venusaur. My own Venusaur can risk a Speed-tie and attack with Hidden Power Ice as well.

    [​IMG] Virizion:
    I usually leave Virizion to Ninetales and Dragonite, as they are best suited to deal with this classy Pokémon. Dragonite can use a physical move to take it down by its low Defense, while Ninetales offers super effective damage with Fire Blast. I obviously have to watch out for Hidden Power Ice or Stone Edge, but I'm usually well-prepared for opposing Virizion.

    [​IMG] Volcarona:
    Heatran deals major damage with Magma Storm even at +1, and I can use Toxic or Taunt to shut it down. Should it carry Hidden Power Ground, I use Dragonite to check it and then demolish it with either Outrage or ExtremeSpeed, depending on the amount of HP remaining and the amount of boosts it has attained.

    Export to Text

    Code:
    Ninetales (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 144 HP / 252 SAtk / 112 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Sunny Day
    - Fire Blast
    - SolarBeam
    - Toxic
       
    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt
    - Rapid Spin
    
    Dragonite (F) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Outrage
    - Fire Punch
    - Earthquake
    - ExtremeSpeed
       
    Heatran (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Taunt
    - Magma Storm
    - Earth Power
    - Toxic
       
    Venusaur (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Growth
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - SolarBeam
    - Sleep Powder
       
    Dugtrio (F) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Stealth Rock
    - Reversal
    - Earthquake
    Conclusion

    Well, that was actually briefer than I expected, as I thought I would have a lot to cover with this team. Anyways, it's served me well and done its job. I hope that if you take anything away from this team, it would be the power of the monstrous Magma Storm Heatran. While this is simply standard sun with a few twists, the team is one of my favorites. As far as threats go, Choice Scarf Salamence is a big one, though if I catch it using Outrage, I can simply get Heatran in. Of course, I also have Dragonite's ExtremeSpeed and Vensuaur's Sleep Powder, so it's not a giant threat. Generally speaking, teams that spam Dragons give me a headache because I only have one Steel-type and it is offensive. While I have considered Forretress over Starmie, the offensive presence that Starmie brings, and not to mention the Water resistance, has kept Starmie's hold on the position firm. Anyhow, thank you for taking the time to read through the RMT. The amazing art is from an amazing artist Pearlsaurus. I shamelessly ripped the format from Kevin Garrett's great RMTs, so if you wanted to know where I got that, there's your answer. Again, thank you for reading through, I hope you enjoyed this RMT!
  2. Delko

    Delko
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    Hey Harsha, nice team.

    On paper it seems to me that DD Dragons, mainly Dragonite and Scarf Terrakion can give you problems. Dragonite can easily set up on Dugtrio, your own Dragonite locked in a wrong move and even on Venusaur if it has a Lum Berry. Scarf Terrakion can spam Stone Edge, especially late game when Dugtrio is gone, or if it has it Focus Sash broken and your team is weakened. A simple solution for both these "problems" is by running Hidden Power Ice > Fire on Venusaur and use a Timid nature. Hidden Power Ice lets you hit dragons much harder, and with a Timid nature you can outrun +2 Dragonite and Scarf Terrakion. After a Growth or two, the 10% less SAtk is neglectable. You also have Steel types covered well enough with the rest of your team so you don't have to worry about that either.

    An optional change can be Sunny Day > Growth on Venusaur. You seem to be really Sun dependent and Ninetales just isn't bulky enough to keep switching in everytime the weather changes, especially the offensive variant you are using. Sunny Day can still turn Venusaur in the late-game sweeper in case you lose the weather war. Speed over Power is the case here.

    Hope this helped and good luck with the team.

    EDIT: Put those remaining 4 EVs on Dugtrio in Def rather then HP, and run 21 HP IVs. This will give you 201 HP, enough to make 4 Subs (or live 2 Seismic Toss' / Night Shades) and reach 1 HP for maximum power Reversal.
  3. peng

    peng

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Messages:
    474
    Hey Harsha, this looks like a well-built sun team. As Delko already mentioned, the biggest weaknesses to this team are Dragons, such as DD Dragonite and Salamence, be it Scarf, DD or Mixed. I personally feel as though Starmie is just tacked on at the end of this team; its a decent pivot against Rain but its running no STAB attacks and no boosting item so its not really hitting hard at all whilst running a very offensive set. I think that some variant of Cloyster would be a great substitution for Starmie, as with its great Defense it can tank hits from the likes of Landorus, Dragonite and Scarf Salamence, kill them with its STAB Ice Shard and retain the ability to Rapid Spin. Although Cloyster does not match-up against well against rain, you already have a solid anti-Politoed core in Heatran, Dugtrio, Sunny Day Ninetales and your Venusaur, so I don't see any glaring problems there.

    [​IMG]
    Cloyster (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Skill Link
    EVs: 248 HP / 84 Atk / 176 Def
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Ice Shard
    - Icicle Spear
    - Toxic Spikes / Spikes

    Defensive Cloyster is one of the best Physical Dragon checks in the game despite being a non-Steel-type, due to its huge defense and access to both Ice Shard, which picks off weaker Dragons, and Icicle Spear, which KOs Dragonite through Multiscale and even SubDDNite through its Substitute. Another key advantage over Starmie is its ability to set-up either Spikes or Toxic Spikes depending on your personal preference; Spikes is great for weakening Venusaurs checks and counters in the run-up to its sweep, and Toxic Spikes puts a timer on Rain stall if Dugtrio can trap Tentacruel.
  4. dragonuser

    dragonuser The only thing I look up to is the sky
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Pyramid Kingis a Past WCoP Winner

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    Hey Harsha : P,

    First of all I have to commend you on using magma storm tran as it is probably my favorite tran set and probs one of the most effective ones out there imo. Like others have said, DDnite seems to be really troublesome for you as your only way to really hit it is magmastorm from tran(which does like 40% iirc) or ice beam from starmie. I would definetly support delkos suggestion of Hp Ice Venu as rarely anyone expects venu to use HP Ice and after one growth you are KOing most dragons like latios. However I think you should replace solarbeam on your venusaur with Energy Ball so you are able to damage politoed/tyranitar in opposing weathers. I feel that your venu does need growth to get those OHKO's on dragons.

    Anyways, great team and gl ^^
  5. Razza

    Razza

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    454
    i dont see why you are running so much speed on heatran, i think an alteration of grimm70s set will help it to fulfil its roles much better with the extra bulk

    Heatran @ Balloon/Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs : 252 HP / 104 Def / 124 SAtk / 28 Spd
    Nature : Modest ( +SAtk / -Atk)
    - Toxic
    - Taunt
    - Protect
    - Magma Storm

    this spread lets you avoid the 2hko from banded haxorus and the 2hko from specs latios helping with the dragon weakness, it also lets you take an unboosted terrakion close combat. Protect will guarantee you can beat chansey and blissey, and also allows you to trap things like politoed and suck away at their heath with poison damage, as well as just being a great toxic stalling move and allowing you to scout choiced mons in general. I dont see the purpose of earth power aside from opposing heatran and maybe tentacruel which are handled by dugtrio and starmie, so you may find protect very useful. The item choice is obvious, leftovers works very well with protect and the extra bulk whilst balloon avoids ground type moves and dugtrio.


    I also think victreebell would be a much better option over venusaur who i find to suck balls, and the ice/fire coverage helps with your dragons problem.

    Victreebel (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Growth
    - Giga Drain
    - Weather Ball
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    giga drain and growth allow you to sweep, and let you beat chansey, or you could run a 4 attacks set with solarbeam and sludge bomb (patches up your virizion weakness) or you might want to fit in sleep powder somewhere. Timid outurns opposing modest venusaur and scarfterrakion which is very useful.

    next, seeing as starmie lacks recovery, you could do with a bulkier specially defensive spread on ninetales to switch into water moves more easily, plus i find offensive tales to be far too frail and this will help alot in weather wars, something like this

    Ninetales (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 248 HP / 216 SDef / 44 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Flamethrower
    - Toxic
    - Roar
    - Will-O-Wisp

    roar is very useful for your sub cm latias weakness.
  6. zzazzdsa

    zzazzdsa

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2010
    Messages:
    56
    I agree with razza's changes, except that instead of toxic on ninetales, I'd go with energy ball to hit things like bulky waters on the switch. In addition, I would add changing starmie to this set:


    Starmie @ Leftovers Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 120 HP / 132 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Psychic
    - Thunderbolt
    - Rapid Spin


    Psychic over ice beam gives you the ability to beat gengar, which appears to be very annoying with stealth rock support (2hkoing your entire team after rocks). All you are giving up is ice beam, which really only hits dragons that you cant outspeed anyways ( hydreigon and latios are the only exceptions, which aren't killed by ice beam anyway). The evs allow starmie to ohko gyarados and gengar after stealth rock with the respective move.
  7. Tizio Potente Ao

    Tizio Potente Ao

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    49
    wow, really cool team Harsha, I love the use of sun, it is so underrated in OU, not only that but your heatran set is so great, it reminds me of heatrap from dp, which was very good, congrats for the team, really
  8. MavsObbession

    MavsObbession

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    299
    <3 Harsha, you're such a BOSS! Please do another RMT tomorrow. XD Oh yeah, don't change the team too much because it'll open holes to more threats. There's a reason you have 29 Luvdiscs. Oops, make that 30!
  9. Raikiri

    Raikiri

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Messages:
    37
    The new Venusaur set was a nice fix. However, I can imagine your Heatran set forces you to make risky moves. Against Latios, you have to risk missing Magma Storms just to 2HKO it while you take repeated Surfs. Latias can be an inconvience when they get a sub up. Dragonite can set up against Ninetales, Dugtrio or Heatran freely and wreak havoc. Salamence can do the same thing. Although MixMence can wreak Venusaur upon the switch, then the rest of your team. To fix this I suggest my custom Heatrap set..

    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Air Balloon
    Evs: 128 HP / 220 SAtk / 160 Spe
    Nature: Modest
    -Magma Storm
    -Earth Power
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Taunt

    The 160 Evs lets you outpace all Scizors not Scarfed. 220 SAtk Evs let's you take out Dragonite after rocks damage and generally does more damage to the Lati twins than Hidden Power Ice. The rest was put in HP to tank hits from the dragons you will be switching into. In the sun Heatran can nearly 2HKO Blissey/Chansey after rocks, so you can really just Taunt then pivot to Dragonite or Dugtrio to finish the job. Air Balloon Heatran is a natural counter to opposing Heatran, so you don't have to risk Dugtrio taking a Lava Plume to the face. To be honest you don't need Toxic on an offensive Heatran to take out Latias. Anymore speed is also irrelivent at what this set is meant to do.

    [​IMG]
    Azelf @ Focus Sash
    Evs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
    Nature: Naive
    -Stealth Rock
    -Taunt
    -Fire Blast
    -Explosion

    Sense Dragonite and Salamence are such a significant threat to your team I think lead Azelf would help your out. Its much more effective for Azelf to do it and he can stop other pokes from setting up too. If u want, replace Starmie with this and make Dugtrio the Life Orb set To ensure those KOs. Fire Blast will take out Fortress who would otherwise wall this set and Venasuar. Explosion is to go out in a bang ofcourse and break Dragonites Multiscale. so lastly I would suggest giving Ninetales Hidden Power Ice.
  10. Grimm70

    Grimm70

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2009
    Messages:
    264
    Hi there!

    A good team you have here and I'm glad you also appreciate MagmaTran + Dug which is a very brilliant combo :)

    First of all, let me talk about Dugtrio. Delko gave you a good spread for Dugy but I must add something. When you want to trap Tyranitar, sometimes you will eat some stone edge or crunch on Dug which deal like 70-80% and then Reversal is not able to kill him. Dugtrio doesn't need defense since it is just here to trap and kill and you NEED the 200 Power of reversal. That's why I'm running an Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def) with 0 IV in Def.
    Then and because your sun is an offensive one I also suggest you to use Rock tomb over Substitute. The reason is simple, all the Pokémon able to set up want to come on Dugtrio ( DDNite, Gyarados,Volcarona...) and some Pokemon such as Gliscor will be able to make a substitute. Rock tomb give you a supper effective move against most of them and it makes their speed lower. It helps a lot when Heatran run HP Ice and here come my second suggestion.
    Oh and I forgot to say that Magmastorm on Scarftoed + Rock tomb ( then you outspeed him) + reversal = GG

    Let's go back to my suggestion, but there is a problem. Magma + toxic + SubstituteDug is very good against rain with BulkyToad but useless against Scarftoad.
    But I noticed that BulkyTran is a problem for your team... Running HP ice will make the rock tomb combo effective and you will be able to deal with Heatran@ ballon + Nite and some Gliscor without fearing the Magma accurency.
    This is as you want... Keep in mind that Pokemon who come into Tran are:
    Latios, Rotom-W,Politoad, Tentacruel and Bliss. Toxic against Rotom-W is useless because of Voltswitch and you don't want to eat an hydropump, against Tenta, i don't need to explain, against Latios, using magma storm again is better and if it is a scarfToed it is useless too. Then, there is Bliss and BulkyToed.
    Well it is just a suggestion you are free to try or not :d ( if you try it then put the ballon on Heatran.)

    Let's talk about Venusaur now. Delko's suggestion was very interesting and you did it well by changing it. But he also suggest you to put Sunny day on Growth and I think it is the best way for him... Growth+ solarbeam mean you are absolutly sure you won the weather war but the fact is that luck + good oponent will not make it systematic. Furthermore you are running HP Ice now which mean you can deal with Dragoons. Sunny Day will assure you to conclude many games. It also help a lot winning the weather war ( and for using it since so much time now I know what i'm saying ) for example you call him in order to sleep powder someone then you decide to use sunny Day because rain is up, your opponent send Latios. Since you are under Sun and you have a Venusaur your opponent will not send the weather inducer, you just have to swtich on Heatran and to use Magma. o.O I traped the weather inducer ! ... This is a so true example. Plus I guess Growth help against nothing apart a final VS against Bliss .
    And to conclude since you are Timide now and because you just want to outspeed ScarfTios you might invest 180 Evs in speed only letting you 78 free EVs for HP which are usefull I guess.

    CBNite is a good idea by the way. Nice team again and I hope I helped you :)

    Cya.
  11. Mazz

    Mazz UU's Workhorse
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor Alumnus
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    Hey Harsha, nice erm, standard sun team you've got there?

    Scarf Politoed looks to be a massive issue for this team, as Dragonite and Venusaur are about the only things you have that'll beat it. However, both Pokemon risk being mauled by Ice Beam. For this, I'm suggesting you test Wobbuffet over Dugtrio. It's still plenty bulky to trap other weather inducers, and can do the same against Politoed, something Dugtrio couldn't. It can also give you time to set Pokemon like Venusaur or Dragonite up.

    Looks good.
  12. Hypercut

    Hypercut

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2011
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    235
    Nice Team, i think that i'll try it later, and i'll tell you the changes
  13. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Co-Leader

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    It's probably about time that I responded to all of this stuff -- thanks for all of the comments, Luvdiscs, rates, and complements!

    As far as Heatran is concerned, I don't think all of you are actually looking at the purpose. First off you, Raikiri, you say that Heatran doesn't do anything to Latios, when in reality Latios is actually 2HKOed by my Magma Storm. Leftovers is necessary to allow me to haunt Chansey or Blissey for 5 turns or take a weak defensive Politoed's Scald. As far as Azelf is concerned, it would actually hurt my team a lot. Starmie provides way too much for this team to replace for a lead, especially considering that I lose Rapid Spin support and a durable rain check.

    Grimm, I have to say that I found your rate really great -- I am going to test out all of those changes. I have to say that changing up Dugtrio's set to ensure that I'm not setup fodder is really intriguing. Running Hidden Power Ice may help out, but I'm unsure if losing out on Toxic is worth it. That's something else that I'll test out since it's basically a trade off for what I want to counter more. The EV spread for Venusaur seems like a good idea -- as long as I outspeed Scarf Latios I guess I should be fine. I'll test out Sunny Day because you're right that Ninetales isn't the most durable weather inducer, though I do have to say that it hasn't really let me down very often. Thanks for your help and kind words!

    Something has to be said about ScarfToed before discussing it: without a Modest nature, it doesn't hit very hard, and without a Timid nature, it fails to outspeed Dugtrio. To be completely honest I haven't had a problem with ScarfToed, as Starmie provides a perfect resistance to Water-type moves and carries Thunderbolt. If it carries Surf, then even better for me! If I lose both Dugtrio and Heatran but win the weather war, then generally I'll have an easier time winning the game.

    To everyone, thank you for all the kind words! I really appreciate them :d
  14. Raikiri

    Raikiri

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Messages:
    37
    I know Magma Storm is poweful enough to 2HKO Latios, im simiply saying that you must hit both of them otherwise Surf will 3HKO you. But unless you just have luck like that then I say keep it by all means. Also you won't have to worry about Mence/Dnite sweeping you if you had Dragon Pulse. And if you do fight Blissey/Chancey...Storm, Taunt, switch to Dnite or Dugtrio so you can perserve Heatran's health for later.
  15. Lockeness

    Lockeness (e^(i╥))+1=0

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2009
    Messages:
    307
    I just faced this team a few days ago and I must say- I was impressed. The synergy is excellent and the team operates very well against other weather teams. Venesaur is an incredible threat, and with spin support CB Dragonite is a beast. The Starmie set especially is pure gold. HP Fire caught me completely off guard and put me in a really poor position when I battled this team. Excellent work Harsha 10/10. (Also, I notice you like the word "ubiquitous"!)
  16. Motagua

    Motagua El Ciclón Azul

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2009
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    Hey Harsha, really amazing Sun team. I never liked Sun teams due to the huge support most need in order to suceed but your team is pure gold considering every team member has a perfect synergy and the Heatran set is simply GOD-SEND. I´m not done yet, Venusaur is a monster on this team and with Dragonite, they can ravage anything on their path. My only suggestion is to change Starmie´s EV spread to: 32 HP / 248 SAtk / 228 Spd. Witht 228 Speed EVs Starmie still outspeeds Tornadus and it isnt worth to run max Speed with an IV of 30 because you will lose the Speed ties against other Starmies and Azelfs anyways. 32 HP EVs gives you another turn to switch into Stealth Rock and more chances to Rapid Spin. Switch the item to Expert Belt in order for Starmie to always OHKO standard Ferrothorn in Sunshine (99.43% - 117.05%). Overall excellent team, Luvdisc, 10/10, and kudos for making such a fantastic team :).
  17. Asek

    Asek A heart of stone, a smoking gun
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2012
    Messages:
    574
    A great team, I can see why it pulls in the luvdisc's like no other
  18. Dark Nikuman

    Dark Nikuman

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2011
    Messages:
    116
    Show Hide
    Ninetales (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 144 HP / 252 SAtk / 112 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Sunny Day
    - Fire Blast
    - SolarBeam
    - Toxic

    Starmie @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 32 HP / 248 SAtk / 228 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt
    - Rapid Spin

    Dragonite (F) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Outrage
    - Fire Punch
    - Earthquake
    - ExtremeSpeed

    Heatran (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Taunt
    - Magma Storm
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Venusaur (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 72 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 180 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Sunny Day
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - SolarBeam
    - Sleep Powder

    Dugtrio (F) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Rock Tomb
    - Stealth Rock
    - Reversal
    - Earthquake


    here is the version I use of the team, dugtrio with 0 ivs in def spdef and hp.
    Venusaur is the key of the team, since the team is going to win nearly ever weather war it can sweep easy, but when you face good players with sand teams you are going to lose, so sunny day on venusaur is really good, is a pain for volt turn sand teams.
    The weak link in my opinion is dragonite, I think you can run another pokemon on it or simply make a bit more cool the set, for example use a expert belt and espeed flamethower earthquake ice beam, to bait some pokemons that are hard to beat with sun, for example heatran, others dragonite, scizor(yeah is a pain for venusaur), etc...
  19. Candice

    Candice

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Messages:
    19
    I actually don't have a lot to say since it's one of the best sun team I have seen ^^
    Maybe you could go for : 216 Speed / 252 Sp Atk / 40 HP for Starmie, I know it doesn't make a big difference but with 216 EV in speed you still outspeed fast Pokemon with 110 Base Speed, and 40 EV in HP could give you a bit more bulk to handle rain (even though it's not such a big change) and yes, you have to keep leftovers ! She's vital in your team :) I completly agree with Toxic on Ninetales (especially if you can handle Sand well) and also leftovers on Venusaur. But I don't really think that Sub is that great on Dug, since like someone said it before, it's here to trap and kill. I hope you'll get even more successful on the ladder ! :) and by the way, I love your Magma Storm Heatran. Few people use it and it can be very deadly :p
  20. Starm76

    Starm76

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    12
    Hi, it is really goos teams, means luvdisc.

    You're seem really weak to Dragonite who can set-up on all your Pokemon, except Venusaur and then destroy your team, Venusaur takes about 56-66% on Extreme Speed, so I think you could try a more defensive spread on Venusaur for have a better resistance of Extreme Speed and on Heatran for be 3HKO by Outrage. On Ninetales, put 136 Evs in Speed for outspeed Toxicroak who can OHKO your Ninetales with Cross Chop.

    Change Summary:


    144 HP / 252 SpA / 112 Spe

    Ninetales:

    144 HP / 252 SpA / 112 Spe -> 120 HP / 252 SAtk / 136 Spd

    Heatran:

    252 SpA / 4 SpS / 252 Spe -> 148 HP / 200 SpA / 160 Spe

    Venusaur:

    252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    76 HP / 252 SAtk / 180 Spd

    252 SpA / 4 SpS / 252 Spe -> 76 HP / 252 SpA / 180 Spd

    Good team, GG man.
  21. blunder

    blunder

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    618
    This is quite a remarkable team. Great Job Harsha! Right now I can see the Standard DD Dragonite hurting you a lot as others have mentioned. I can see a Choice Scarf Terrakion beneficial as it can outspeed +2 Neutral natured Dragonite as well as hit things hard. Also helps with what you said was a large weakness to Scarf Mence. Another weakness I have seen to this team is Kyurem. While Kyurem is barely ever used in the OU metagame, it seems like a pain to this team as it pretty much dominates everything with just a Life Orb, as it OHKOes 5 out of your 6 guys, and with a timid nature doesn't need to worry about Ninetales hitting it hard with Fire Blast. D-nite's E-speed can work to an extent I guess, but since it can tank the hits from Venusaur and Starmie since it has the resistances as well as bulk. Terrakion helps with this too. So yeah, that's my two cents

    Great Team! :]
  22. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    I think I am actually going to try out Motagua's spread (which is almost identical but with a bit more Speed to cover Tornadus), as it seems like a fairly good idea considering that I already lose my Speed because of Hidden Power Fire. I also have started using Stone Edge on Dugtrio, which has been a nice experience. Thank you for all the complements!

    The OP has been updated with Sunny Day on Venusaur and a more efficient Dugtrio! Thank you for all the complements and comments!

    Most Dragon Dance Dragonite do not carry ExtremeSpeed, and losing HP on Venusaur isn't really a problem in my mind. I'm currently experimenting with different EV spreads though, so I'll keep in touch with you guys about that. Something I want to make note of is that Heatran's set is likely there to stay. It just outspeeds and beats down so much that I really could not consider making it more bulky. The Ninetales set seems pretty clever, I'll certainly try that out.

    As for Choice Scarf Terrakion, I really don't need a secondary check for Dragon Dance Dragonite. Venusaur does enough for my team, and if it decides to use Outrage, I can always switch to Heatran on the next turn. I also have Dragonite's ExtremeSpeed to fall back on should all else fail.

    Thank you for all of the rates and complements, everyone! I've updated the team with a threat list if you want to check that out.
  23. MrChar

    MrChar

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    49
    Really nice teams, I love seeing sun teams on ou, also, I haven't seen magma storm ehatran since dp, really innovative.
  24. Dracule Mihawk

    Dracule Mihawk

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2011
    Messages:
    146
    Magmastorm tran is a very innovative set Harsha, and congrats on using it successfully.
  25. Razza

    Razza

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    454
    Having looked at your threatlist I think you are overestimating the defensive prowess of your Starmie, heatran and Ninetales, I really think you should reconsider the bulkier sets I propose in my previous rates for Ninetales and heatran. Currently specs Latios can just come in and get a ko everytime and Is immue to your efforts to trap it and similarly powerful attackers such as Tornadus and specs Politoed can just come in and 2hko anything on your team with stealth rocks up, (Starmie will be hard pressed to spin if the opponent makes good use of the ever common rotom-w a common sight on Rain teams) you claim Starmie functions as a switchin to watermoves and yet it has no hp investment or reliable form of recovery. Your team could really use the extra bulk.

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