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Espeon (Baton Pass)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Omicron, Sep 9, 2011.

  1. Omicron

    Omicron
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    [​IMG]

    Espeon

    Might as well continue the trend...

    QC: [PK Gaming] [Delta 2777] [Iconic]
    GP: [Zystral] [Calm Pokemaster]

    [SET]
    name: Baton Pass
    move 1: Baton Pass
    move 2: Calm Mind
    move 3: Stored Power
    move 4: Hidden Power Fighting
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Magic Bounce
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With access to both Baton Pass and Magic Bounce, Espeon can be a force to be reckoned with, especially on Baton Pass teams. Baton Pass is crucial for Espeon to escape unfavorable matchups, especially against Pursuit users. Espeon makes a great pivot in Baton Pass chains, as it is immune to any status move and can only be phazed by Dragon Tail and Circle Throw, both moves being relatively uncommon in the OU metagame. Having said that, Baton Pass Espeon is best suited on dedicated Baton Pass teams, though it can work well on its own with the right support. For example, if priority users and Choice Scarf users such as Scizor or Haxorus are eliminated, Espeon is free to set up and wreak havoc. Espeon is currently the only Magic Bounce user with access to Baton Pass, as while Xatu does have access to Baton Pass, it is illegal with Magic Bounce. Stored Power is recommended over Psychic as after two Calm Mind boosts, Stored Power has a superior 100 Base Power. In the last moveslot, Hidden Power Fighting is used to hit Steel-types and Tyranitar hard.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Psychic can be used for its consistency, chance to drop Special Defense, and higher initial Base Power, but as this set is meant to be used in a Baton Pass chain, Stored Power will most likely be more powerful. Likewise, Psyshock can be used to get through Blissey and Chansey, but Stored Power does that as well, given time and a few stat boosts. Hidden Power Fire nails Scizor, and with the given EV spread, Choice Band Bullet Punch never OHKOes, even with Stealth Rock. Reflect is another good option over Calm Mind to provide some protection from physical attacks, and allows Espeon's Baton Pass recipient to set up more easily, thanks to Reflect halving the damage from physical attacks. Substitute provides some protection from revenge killers, and can be used over Calm Mind, as other teammates such as Venomoth can easily pass Special Attack and Special Defense boosts. Wish is an option to heal teammates, but Espeon's poor HP makes it a rather ineffective choice. The current EV spread can be replaced by an offensive spread with 252 SpA / 252 Spe, but only if Espeon is running Hidden Power for coverage.</p>

    <p>Fighting-types are good teammates to get rid of Steel- and Dark-types if Hidden Power Fighting won't do the job; Mienshao is a good choice as it is fast, resists Pursuit, and has access to Baton Pass to assist with a chain. Teammates which can utilize Baton Pass such as Ninjask, Smeargle, Gorebyss, Vaporeon, and Venomoth, are appreciated to continue the chain, or pass some boosts to Espeon for an easier time setting up. Unfortunately, anything faster than Espeon or with priority can take it out quickly, or at least do some heavy damage before Espeon can switch out. Pokemon with Prankster can't do anything but attack, as Espeon reflects Taunt and Thunder Wave coming from Thundurus and other Prankster users.</p>
  2. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    I actually tested this recently, and I considered QC'ing this, but the one thing stopping me from doing this is the fact that it's a bit slanted towards Baton Pass chains. Granted, we have Pokemon with Baton Pass-oriented analyses, so I'll give my cents.

    Regarding Espeon's options in the last slot, I think all other attacking options should be mentioned in the comments. With Espeon's ability to Baton Pass to another threat, and power after two Calm Mind boosts, Stored Power should suffice enough (unless Espeon is intended as the recipient). The Hidden Powers aren't bad, though I would personally much rather use Reflect or Substitute in this slot and pass to another threat.

    Having said all this, I think it's simply a matter of what role Espeon is playing on the team, so this should be covered.
  3. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    No objections here.

    QC APPROVED (1/3)
  4. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
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    Mention that it's best suited for a full Baton Pass team but can work on its own with some support as well.

    I personally don't know if Reflect and/or Substitute are really too worthy of a slash... Leave it there for now but I guess ask another QC member for their opinion.

    QC Approved (3/3)
  5. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Delta, its only 2/3 lol but I got everything you said! Thanks for the check :)
  6. Iconic

    Iconic
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    yeah you _need_ HP fighting since mono-psychic attacking is so bad. just mention sub/reflect instead of calm mind (not a slash) if espeon is used in a full BP chain where celebi can pass calm minds, or smeargle can pass quiver dances, or whatever

    QC Approved 3/3
  7. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Thanks again Iconic, I'll get to writing this soon :D
  8. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Amateur GP Check for a short and sweet Espeon analysis. Not much to change, really, and the analysis is concise and informative. Just remember to spell out certain numerals in Smogon analyses.

    Espeon Check (open)


    Bold = Change
    Red = Needs to go
    Blue = Comments

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Since Espeon has access to both Baton Pass and its new ability Magic Bounce, it can be a force to be reckoned with, especially on Baton Pass teams. Baton Pass is crucial to Espeon escaping unfavorable match-ups matchups, especially from Pursuit users. Espeon makes a great pivot in Baton Pass chains, as it is immune to any status move and can only be phazed by Dragon Tail, which is relatively uncommon in the OU metagame. Having said that, Baton Pass Espeon is best suited to full on dedicated Baton Pass teams, though it can work well on its own with the right support. For example, if priority users and Choice Scarf users such as Scizor or Haxorus can be are eliminated, Espeon is free to set up and wreak havoc. Espeon is currently the only Magic Bounce Pokemon with access to Baton Pass, as while Xatu does have access to Baton Pass, it is illegal with Magic Bounce. Stored Power is recommended over Psychic as after 2 two Calm Mind boosts, Stored Power has 100 base power, which is 10 Base Power more. In the last moveslot, Hidden Power Fighting is used because it hits most Steel-types and Tyranitar hard.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Psychic can be used for its consistency, chance to drop Special Defense, and higher initial base power, but as this set is meant to be used in a Baton Pass chain, Stored Power will most likely be more powerful. Likewise, Psyshock can be used to get through Blissey and Chansey, but Stored Power does that anyways after a few boosts. Hidden Power Fire nails Scizor, as with the given EV spread, Choice Band Bullet Punch never OHKOes, even with Stealth Rock. Reflect is another good option over Calm Mind to provide some protection from physical attacks, and allows Espeon's pass recipient to set up with ease more easily, thanks to physical blows cushioned by Reflect. Substitute provides some protection from priority users such as Scizor revenge killers (Espeon still isn’t too safe from Choice Scarf users, so it’s best to phrase this on a more general viewpoint) , and can be used over Calm Mind, as other teammates such as Venomoth can easily pass Special Attack and Special Defense boosts. Wish is an option to heal teammates, but Espeon's poor HP makes it a rather ineffective choice. The current EV spread is can be replaced by an offensive spread with 252 SpA / 252 Spe, but only if Espeon is running Hidden Power for coverage. (But wait, isn’t Hidden Power Fighting already the main option?)</p>

    <p>Fighting-types are good teammates to get rid of Steel-types and Tyranitar Dark-types if Hidden Power Fighting won't do the job; Mienshao is a good choice as it is fast, resists Pursuit, and has access to Baton Pass to assist with a chain. Teammates which can utilize Baton Pass, such as Ninjask, Smeargle, Goreybyss Gorebyss, Vaporeon, Venomoth, and more, are appreciated to continue the chain, or pass some boosts to Espeon for an easier time setting up. Unfortunately, anything faster than Espeon or with priority can take her out quickly, or at least do some heavy damage before she can switch out. Prankster users actually can't do anything but attack, as Espeon reflects Taunt and Thunder Wave coming from Thundurus and other Prankster users.</p>
  9. Pocket

    Pocket GOJIRA
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    I think its worthy to note that Substitute not only provides protection from Scizor, but more importantly, it provides protection from Dragon Tail, which would effectively ruin the BP chain. Yes, Espeon doesn't have the initial defense to keep the Substitute up on a strong DTail, but we're talking in the context of BP chains; some defensive boosts may have already been passed to Espeon.

    Equally important, Substitute shields Espeon from critical hits, which would ignore all the defensive boosts and most likely kill Espeon and the BP chain.

    Substitute should be slashed with HP Fighting imo. If Espeon is met with Ferrothorn or Tyranitar, just BP out to the appropriate BPer, such as Scizor or Vaporeon.
  10. truevillany

    truevillany

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    Just throwing my 2 cents in... I use my bp Espeon as a true support poke

    Espeon @ Leftovers
    Timid Nature
    Magic Bounce
    252 hp 252 sp 4 spdef
    Baton Pass
    Reflect
    Calm Mind
    Psyshock/Stored Power/ Psychic

    This guy is not meant to sweep. He is meant to come in on things he can bounce back, set up reflect to be bulky against physical atackers or cm against special attackers, and then pass on cms to a friend. Or he can just dry pass away from pursuiiters. I like psyshock because blissey comes in often, but stored power and psychic are also good choices as a stab attack.

    This guy is invaluable on my team. I have the attitude that he is not meant to sweep, but to keep status/hazards off of the field and set up other sweepers who sweep better than he does anyways. Hell, he can pass to a tank to make it even more bulky!


    This guy pairs well with things like Offensive Volcarona (prevents opponents from setting up SR which cripples it), Calm Mind Jirachi (helps him sweep, and Jirachi helps him back with wish support), or even Careful Parashuffler Dragonite (a status magnet, who appreciates becoming more bulky through calm mind and reflect).

    This set is versatile enough to work well on non-baton pass teams.
  11. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck you spin mine head right round right round
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    i know that this has already passed QC but I'd just like to say that Morning Sun is cool beans on a sun team
    amateur check (open)

    [SET]
    name: Baton Pass
    move 1: Baton Pass
    move 2: Calm Mind
    move 3: Stored Power
    move 4: Hidden Power Fighting
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Magic Bounce
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Since Espeon has access to both Baton Pass and its new ability Magic Bounce, it can be a force to be reckoned with, especially on Baton Pass teams. Baton Pass is crucial to for Espeon to escape escaping unfavorable match-ups, especially from Pursuit users. Espeon makes a great pivot in Baton Pass chains, as it is immune to any status move and can only be phazed by Dragon Tail and Circle Throw, both moves being which is relatively uncommon in the OU metagame. Having said that, Baton Pass Espeon is best suited to full Baton Pass teams, though it can work well on its own with the right support. For example, if priority users and Choice Scarf users such as Scizor or Haxorus can be eliminated, Espeon is free to set up and wreak havoc. Espeon is currently the only Magic Bounce Pokemon with access to Baton Pass, as while Xatu does have access to Baton Pass, it is illegal with Magic Bounce. Stored Power is recommended over Psychic as, after 2 Calm Mind boosts, Stored Power has a superior 100 base power, which is 10 Base Power more. In the last moveslot, Hidden Power Fighting is used because it hits to hit Steel-types and Tyranitar hard.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Psychic can be used for its consistency, chance to drop Special Defense, and higher initial base power, but as this set is meant to be used in a Baton Pass chain, Stored Power will most likely be more powerful. Likewise, Psyshock can be used to get through Blissey and Chansey, but Stored Power does that anyways after a few boosts. Hidden Power Fire nails Scizor, as with the given EV spread, Choice Band Bullet Punch never OHKOes, even with Stealth Rock. Reflect is another good option over Calm Mind to provide some protection from physical attacks, and allows Espeon's pass recipient to set up with ease, thanks to physical blows cushioned by Reflect. Substitute provides some protection from priority users such as Scizor, and can be used over Calm Mind, as other teammates such as Venomoth can easily pass Special Attack and Special Defense boosts. Wish is an option to heal teammates, but Espeon's poor HP makes it a rather ineffective choice. The current EV spread is can be replaced by an offensive spread with 252 SpA / 252 Spe, but only if Espeon is running Hidden Power for coverage.</p>

    <p>Fighting-types are good teammates to get rid of Steel-types and Tyranitar; Mienshao is a good choice as it is fast, resists Pursuit, and has access to Baton Pass to assist with a chain. Teammates which can utilize Baton Pass such as Ninjask, Smeargle, Goreybyss, and Venomoth, and more, are appreciated to continue the chain, or pass some boosts to Espeon for an easier time setting up. Unfortunately, anything faster than Espeon or with priority can take her it out quickly, or at least do some heavy damage before she it can switch out. Pokemon with Prankster users actually can't do anything but attack, as Espeon reflects Taunt and Thunder Wave coming from Thundurus and other Prankster users.</p>

    red = omit, blue = add
    edit: this check doesn't actually overlap with AccidentalGreed's that much so it should be fine
  12. Omicron

    Omicron
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    implemented the checks, thanks guys, also, i lol'd so hard at "Goreybyss" xD
  13. Disibio

    Disibio

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    Here's an adjustment I would make;

    It basically depends on personal preference, and I think it could maybe be a bit more reliable than the other move, but again, it's all about what you would chose. Just an idea I had. :p
  14. Fatecrashers

    Fatecrashers acta est fabula
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    Stored Power is infinitely more reliable than Psyshock on this set since Stored Power is powered up by every single boost in the Baton Pass chain whereas Psyshock is only powered up by Calm Mind Boosts. A mention for Psyshock in Additional Comments is sufficient.
  15. Zystral

    Zystral めんどくさい、な~
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    zdrup snoozes, zdrup loozes

    [​IMG]
  16. Calm Pokemaster

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    Deletions
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    [SET]
    name: Baton Pass
    move 1: Baton Pass
    move 2: Calm Mind
    move 3: Stored Power
    move 4: Hidden Power Fighting
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Magic Bounce
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With access to both Baton Pass and Magic Bounce, Espeon can be a force to be reckoned with, especially on Baton Pass teams. Baton Pass is crucial for Espeon to escape unfavorable matchups, especially against Pursuit users. Espeon makes a great pivot in Baton Pass chains, as it is immune to any status move and can only be phazed by Dragon Tail and Circle Throw, both moves being relatively uncommon in the OU metagame. Having said that, Baton Pass Espeon is best suited on dedicated Baton Pass teams, though it can work well on its own with the right support. For example, if priority users and Choice Scarf users such as Scizor or Haxorus are eliminated, Espeon is free to set up and wreak havoc. Espeon is currently the only Magic Bounce Pokemon user with access to Baton Pass, as while Xatu does have access to Baton Pass, it is illegal with Magic Bounce. Stored Power is recommended over Psychic as after two Calm Mind boosts, Stored Power has a superior 100 Base Power. In the last moveslot, Hidden Power Fighting is used to hit Steel-types and Tyranitar hard.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Psychic can be used for its consistency, chance to drop Special Defense, and higher initial Base Power, but as this set is meant to be used in a Baton Pass chain, Stored Power will most likely be more powerful. Likewise, Psyshock can be used to get through Blissey and Chansey, but Stored Power does that as well, given time and a few stat boosts. Hidden Power Fire nails Scizor, and with the given EV spread, Choice Band Bullet Punch never OHKOes, even with Stealth Rock. Reflect is another good option over Calm Mind to provide some protection from physical attacks, and allows Espeon's Baton Pass recipient to set up more easily, thanks to Reflect halving the damage from physical attacks. Substitute provides some protection from revenge killers, and can be used over Calm Mind, as other teammates such as Venomoth can easily pass Special Attack and Special Defense boosts. Wish is an option to heal teammates, but Espeon's poor HP makes it a rather ineffective choice. The current EV spread can be replaced by an offensive spread with 252 SpA / 252 Spe, but only if Espeon is running Hidden Power for coverage.</p>

    <p>Fighting-types are good teammates to get rid of Steel- and Dark-types if Hidden Power Fighting won't do the job; Mienshao is a good choice as it is fast, resists Pursuit, and has access to Baton Pass to assist with a chain. Teammates which can utilize Baton Pass, such as Ninjask, Smeargle, Gorebyss, Vaporeon, and Venomoth, are appreciated to continue the chain, or pass some boosts to Espeon for an easier time setting up. Unfortunately, anything faster than Espeon or with priority can take it out quickly, or at least do some heavy damage before Espeon can switch out. Pokemon with Prankster can't do anything but attack, as Espeon reflects Taunt and Thunder Wave coming from Thundurus and other Prankster users.</p>


    Zy got pretty much everything.

    [​IMG]

    GP 2 / 2
  17. Omicron

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    And this is done! Thanks guys! :)
  18. Fatecrashers

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