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Espeon (Placeholder)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by eric the espeon, Oct 2, 2010.

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  1. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Edit: If someone else wants to reserve the full analysis, please do. I'm working on too many other things right now.

    i should be focusing on LC but this is just too good to resist.

    the below post is correct.


    [​IMG]
    Espeon

    ------

    [Overview]


    • Previously overshadowed by Alakazam and other Psychic-types, Espeon now has one of the best abilities in the game: Magic Mirror. This acts like a permanent Magic Coat, which received an upgrade to reflect back almost everything, and is only shared by Natu and Xatu (loads of competition there..).
    • Magic Mirror makes it the perfect switch into many predictable entry hazard users, both preventing them from laying anything down and getting a layer up yourself.
    • Espeon still has great sweeping stats (base 130 SpA/110 Speed), defenses that let it take the odd neutral hit and keep going, and a just about passable movepool, especially with the new Psycho Shock.
    • Magic Mirror instantly makes many otherwise questionable Espeon sets very effective since it can be run alongside all of them.
    • It's not often a good idea to use Espeon as a lead. You are usually much better off switching it into the foe's lead turn 1 and getting some use out of Magic Mirror, then being in the same situation.


    [SET]
    name: Black and White's EspyJump
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Psychic
    move 3: Baton Pass
    move 4: Substitute
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Magic Mirror
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 80 SpD / 176 Spe

    Set Description:


    • EspyJump gets a nice boost this generation with Magic Mirror providing plenty of beneficial switches, and Pokemon to set up a Calm Mind or two against.
    • Unlike in the previous two generations, people will be more cautious about switching EspyJump's favorite setup bait (Blissey) into it due to Magic Coat.
    • Psychic is the main option because Blissey and other dedicated special walls pose little to no threat to this set, and the extra power against most foes is helpful more often.
    • The idea of this set is to bluff an offensive set and use the surprise to set up Calm Mind or Substitute as much as possible, then pass away to a recipient who can make good use of them.

    Additional Comments:


    • The extra bulk on this set helps it switch in more safely against many opponents, and unlike on other sets the investment in bulk does not sacrifice this set's ability to do it's job properly.

    Teammates & Counters:



    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind Attacker
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Psycho Shock / Psychic
    move 3: Shadow Ball
    move 4: Hidden Power Fighting
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    ability: Magic Mirror
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    Set Description:


    • As with all Espeon sets, Magic Mirror is the main attraction, but this set can provide some decent offensive pressure.
    • Psycho Shock gives you a good weapon against Blissey and provides reliable STAB, but Psychic has 15 more base power and can be used to stop various physical walls like Hippowdon from causing you so much trouble.
    • Shadow Ball covers Psychic types nicely while Hidden Power serves to give you an option to dent Steels.
    • Life Orb makes Espeon a much greater threat quickly, but limits the number of times you can switch it in and attack. Leftovers gives you a little more room to switch into stronger attacks and not have Espeon entirely crippled.

    Additional Comments:


    • Hidden Power Ground and Grass Knot are viable alternatives to Hidden Power Fighting, the former hits the Steel/Psychics much harder than any other attack while the latter gives you a good hit against various heavy or Grass weak Pokemon. Both leave you more vulnerable to Dark types, especially Sazandora and Tyranitar.
    • Investing more in defensive stats is viable, you can run 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe to beat the base 100s, or even drop some Special Attack in order to boost Espeon's ability to switch in.

    Teammates & Counters:


    • Like all Espeon sets, Pokemon who have problems with entry hazards like Urugamosu and Gyarados love to be paired with this.
    • Having a somewhat bulky Fighting type like Machamp, Kerudio, or Roobushin to switch in when the foe brings in a Dark type avoids the need to sacrifice Espeon.
    • Steel types like Jirachi tend to come in a ruin Espeon's fun, but most of them have problems dealing with a Fire Pokemon of your own (who will be very happy to not have to deal with Stealth Rock so often, thanks to Espeon).



    [Team Options]


    • Pokemon with a severe Stealth Rock weakness or vulnerability to other entry hazards greatly appreciate Espeon's ability to keep them off the field without the preventable and time consuming Rapid Spin.

    [Optional Changes]

    [Counters]


    [Dream World]


    • Espeon's Dream World ability has been released, and the entire analysis is based around it.
  2. EspyJoel

    EspyJoel Espy <3
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  3. EspeonBeauty

    EspeonBeauty

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    espeon rules, enough said
  4. TickingSeedotBomb

    TickingSeedotBomb

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    I really have no suggestions as your two sets pretty much cover Espeon's uses. Magic Mirror is an awesome ability for Espeon! He's definitely a fun lead to try out.
  5. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
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    On the sets you actually need to mention which ability is being used in the [SET] part, because Espeon has 2 abilities.

    Also, from what I remember, Magic Mirror makes you immune to phazing (rather, it bounces the phaze back at the opponent), so mention that in the overview, and especially on EspyJump. That's a huge pro for Espeon over other passers because he doesn't need Taunt. Also, on EspyJump, mention that he can't be Taunted, and any attempts to Taunt him are futile, because he can now basically pull off a pass uninterrupted.
  6. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Hey guys, if you're going to post in Level 100, at least have some competitive substance in your post. The forum had more restrictions because of the line between those who have experience and those that seem to not. C & C.

    Anyways, onto the Espeon analysis, you're doing fine and it needs a few dustings in a few places. However, I'd like to see Cheer Up as an Option on the infamous EspyJump set. The Special Defense boost will not benefit some recipients sometimes, and due to mixed attackers and physical attackers being available, the Special Attack boost may not help much either. Cheer Up is more plausible so that your boosts aren't so useless when you come face-to-face with especially defensive opponents.

    Also by using Cheer Up, your selection of teammates to pass to becomes more versatile (like being in a tight situation where you only have Espeon and a physical attacker left and you want to dish out some damage without that useless Special Attack boost). Sazandora and Dragonite definitely benefit from this because of their general defensive synergy with Espeon and the fact that they can go mixed against Blissey.
  7. Banryu

    Banryu

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    I made up this set to be a offensive utility hazard/status blocker:

    Espeon @ Life Orb
    Nature: Timid
    Ability: Magic Mirror
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Psychic / Psycho Shock
    - Yawn
    - Grass Knot
    - Shadow Ball / Hidden Power [Fire]
    While it is an offensive set, it's important to emphasize that this is NOT a sweeper-- this Espeon's purpose is to bounce back statuses and entry hazards on their users, then take out said users. Psychic VS. Psycho Shock STAB depends on whether you want to beat Roopushin or Blissey. Yawn is a good move on the set: with some prediction, it can be used to force out Espy's potential counters, like Tyranitar, who isn't overly scared of Grass Knot and can threaten an OHKO with Crunch. Grass Knot, then, is for beating the bulky Ground-type hazard users like Hippowdon and Swampert. HP Fire is crucial for beating Steel-types like Skarmory, Nattorei, and Forretress, and also does reasonable damage to Erufuun. Bring it in on an opponent's SR/Spikes setup Poke, Mirror the hazards back at them, then take them out so they don't have the opportunity to set up after Espeon is out of the picture... that's the idea behind it. I've had it pointed out that HP Fire prevents Espy from getting max speed, but in this case, beating the aforementioned Steels is more important, as Skarmory and Nattorei and such can easily beat Espeon with their powerful physical attacks.

    Note also that the legitimacy of Dream World Espeon being able to breed Yawn is still unknown, as far as I'm aware, so should that be the case, a similar set the above can be used with Baton Pass over Yawn to escape Pursuit. The Baton Pass variant functions much in the same way, but it can also be used as a lure for unscarfed Tyranitar's Crunches and Pursuits, which Pokemon like Justice Heart Lucario can come in to set up on.

    Also, have Dream World abilities been confirmed to be legit on these analyses? Last I checked, the only mention of them was supposed to be in the 'Dream World' section at the bottom. :\ Has something changed that I missed?
  8. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
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    Magic Mirror Espeon has been released since before the game even came out.

    Dream World abilities that have been released can be integrated into the main analysis like any other ability, like it says in the rules for the 5th generation analyses.
  9. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    By the way, you need to list Espeon's ability as Magic Mirror on all the sets, as otherwise you're giving the player an option to use either Synchronize or Magic Mirror.
  10. Sir Azelf

    Sir Azelf

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    Espeon pretty much needs HP Fire since Forry and Nattorei can both massacre it due to its horrid defense with Payback and Powerwhip/Gyro Ball respectively. So you need to actually ko them if you'd like to block Spikes/SR/T-Spikes and to also stop Forry just spinning on you after you reflect them so you actually havent done anything productive. HP Fire also actually does something to Skarm who can still Brave Bird for heavy damage.
  11. Banryu

    Banryu

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    Very true. However, on Sweeperish sets, Espeon really needs its full Speed, and therefore can't afford to run HP Fire. :0 Probably why most Espy sets are Passers... That said, Magic Mirror definitely makes Espeon a fantastic Passer. Easily the best part of it is that it can't be Taunted (a fact that definitely needs a mention in there).

    @ Bologo: ...that so? Fine then. I thought that was the policy regarding all DW abilities, but apparently I was mistaken.
  12. Vincent

    Vincent

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    Magic Mirror Espeon + Focus Sash = Baton Pass Calm Mind or Cheer Up almost guaranteed (except against fasters pokémon that can 2hko, or Priority Moves or Dragon Tail) and Trick Room almost ALWAYS guaranteed (except against Dragon Tail).

    Generally i use this Espeon as a lead, with Grass Knot to kill Groudon that will Dragon Tail on me and Shadow Ball against Giratina.
  13. Banryu

    Banryu

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    Espy is probably best used NOT as a lead, from what I've seen. :0 It's better to have it hidden as a nasty surprise for your opponent whenever they send out ther SR setup Poke, otherwise, they won't even attempt to and will just send out something to eliminate Espeon. :0 Just sayin'.
  14. charlizard

    charlizard

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    Why no specs? Espeon makes a great quick sweeper with a specs set. 130 Special attack with STAB psychic really only needs specs to be deadly. And psychic has great coverage.

    I play a specs Espeon with Psychic, Signal Beam, Grass Knot, and Trick, and it works very well.
  15. Lee

    Lee @ Thick Club
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    With that spread you've listed, Espeon hits 330 Spe. At the absolute least, throw in the extra 16 EVs and outrun Garchomp (333 Spe) and Randorosu (331 Spe). You could also consider 216 Spe to outrun Kojondo or just going 252 Spe to outrun Terakion.
  16. Death Phenomeno

    Death Phenomeno I'm polite so just for clarity, when I'm cross I
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    Wait…

    I was under the impression that the DW evolutions of Eevee were all male. Was this ever confirmed?

    Because if that's the case, Magic Mirror + Baton Pass is illegal unless the DW Espeon already came with it. If it did, however, please ignore this post.
  17. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
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    I don't think that was ever really confirmed, and as far as I know, female DW Eeveelutions aren't illegal on wifi.

    Also, it doesn't matter either way, because a DW Eevee was given out too from what I remember, so since Baton Pass is a Level up move for Eevee, just let Eevee learn Baton Pass and then evolve it into Espeon and you should get Magic Mirror + Baton Pass.
  18. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers Self-proclaimed DEAD king
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    Croagunk was an event DW pokémon and its gender ratio is 1:1, and yet no one in Uncharted Territory (neither in Serebiiforums) has gotten a female one as of now. I think it's pretty safe to assume all event DW pokémon will be male-only for the time being, meaning poor Espeon cannot use Baton Pass/Wish/Yawn/Tickle/whatever. None of them come with special moves either (Espeon's was... Helping Hand), so they really are stuck with whatever level-up and TM/HM moves they usually learn. And Eevee hasn't been found anywhere in Dream World yet, unfortunately, and the pre-release event only had its evolutions.


    tl;dr: Espyjump cannot have Magic Mirror yet. Lame.
  19. chocolate-kipp

    chocolate-kipp

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    Sorry, saw a little typo.

    Psychic's base power is 90, and Psycho Shock's is 80, meaning there's a difference of 10, not 20.
  20. Banryu

    Banryu

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    ...so... is this meant to be an Ubers analysis for Espeon or does it need to be moved to OU? :0 I kind of question Espy's survivability in Ubers... I mean, sure, reflecting Darkrai's sleep and stuff like that is definitely useful, but most stuff in Ubers is just gonna hammer poor li'l Espy into the dust with its less-than-stellar defenses. :0 Right?
  21. PokeJoe69

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    Sorry if I only have one post but I tried using a Dual Screen lead and it works out fine with it's base speed.

    Espeon @ Light Clay
    EV's:252 HP, 252 Spe, 4 Sp. Att
    Nature:Timid
    Ability:Magic Mirror
    -Light Screen
    -Reflect
    -Yawn
    -Shadow Ball/Psychic/Hidden Power Fire

    I put yawn there to sleep their leads after I set up a reflect or light screen then go on to a pokemon that could set up and start sweeping, Erufuun has no chance of taunting, seeding, and encoring as it just screws itself over, Can not be roared away (Correct me if I'm wrong). Well that's all I have.

    Sure it has problems with some leads but not all of them.
  22. Charmander

    Charmander mfw i have a mane and am actually the sun
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    I think you mean Mirror, but whatever.

    This is a really good analysis, convinced me to use espeon...
  23. Jaroda

    Jaroda

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    Not sure why this is in the Ubers section since I think he's far more likely to be seen in OU but...

    I've always liked Espeon, but this ability almost mandates that he be a part of your team. Personally, I wish he had Umbreon's stats as I like using dual screens myself and Espeon would really like the bulk. But man, can you IMAGINE Umbreon with this ability? Broken to all hell!
  24. Chomper The Sharptooth

    Chomper The Sharptooth

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    Sorry I haven't tested a set yet, but because of the Ubers focus on speed and Espeon's immunity to status/taunt/encore/hazards I could see an Uber lead set working. I'll get EV's for it later

    name: Trick Room Lead
    move 1: Trick Room
    move 2: Baton Pass
    move 3: Shadow Ball
    move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Quick Attack
    item: Focus Sash
    ability: Magic Mirror
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    I just used the EV's from the first set, I'm sure there are better ones. Reason Espeon stays fast as a TR lead is so that it will (hopefully) go last when baton passing and create a free switch. Otherwise it usually dies, which is still a free switch. Breaking Sashes/Sturdy could be an issue so I slashed in quick attack to outspeed even in Trick Room. Investing in enough Special Defense to take a Deoxys-S shadow ball+extremespeed is likely the first in order. Once I get a chance I'll try running Espeon in Ubers and posting logs.
  25. McGrrr

    McGrrr Facetious
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    Moved from Espeon discussion

    Magic Mirror coupled with Baton Pass and its excellent speed qualify Espeon as a uniquely useful scout/pivot Pokemon.

    Consider the following moveset:

    move 1: Future Sight/Psychic/Yawn
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Wish
    move 4: Baton Pass
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Magic Mirror
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    The strategy is simple:

    1) Abuse Magic Mirror to switch in.
    2) If you are unsure about what your opponent will do, and Espeon is:
    ... a) faster, Substitute/Baton Pass to scout.
    ... b) slower, switch.
    3) If you expect your opponent to attack:
    ... a) Baton pass if faster.
    ... b) Switch out if slower.
    4) If Espeon is against set up bait or you expect your opponent to switch:
    ... a) Substitute early in the battle to scout.
    ... b) Wish should your team need it.
    ... c) Future sight/Yawn depending on the situation.

    Obviously play accordingly next turn.

    Future Sight is the most viable attacking move here IMO, because Espeon will be switching out often and the user can manoeuvre a hit on anything through accurate predictions.
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