Everybody Walk the Dinosaur! : A Cranidos Discussion

Discussion in 'Little Cup' started by Black Buddha, Nov 21, 2009.

  1. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    Back in the day, there was a certain Choice Scarf user that caused shivers even at a mention. Its physical prowess was well heard of near and far, and even the sturdiest of walls fell to a single move, which came off of the highest unboosted Attack stat in Little Cup. Its movepool was not tremendous, nor too small, it had all it needed. Its greater than average speed also meant it outspeeded a significant chunk of other Choice Scarf users, making it even harder to revenge kill without resorting to priority.

    I am talking, of course, about Cranidos.

    [​IMG]
    RAWR.

    Cranidos used to be a threat to many teams before HG/SS came out, and unless one packed a good check and many immunities and resistances, Cranidos could easily devastate the opposing team with its simple yet effective Choice Scarf using set.

    **********
    The set was

    [​IMG]
    Cranidos @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 236 HP / 212 Spe / 36 SpA
    Naive nature (+Spe, -SDef)
    - Stone Edge / Head Smash
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Beam
    - Pursuit / Zen Headbutt


    The main selling points of Choice Scarf Cranidos were its gargantuan attack stat of 22, 24 Speed with a Choice Scarf and its excellent Ability, Mold Breaker. Team which relied on Levitate-users such as Misdreavus and Bronzor to switch into Ground-type attacks were suddenly at a loss. No longer could Bronzor and Misdreavus stop your sweep, they were promptly OHKOed with Earthqake. Stone Edge received STAB and put a dent even in things which resisted it, and OHKOed nearly everything that didn't. Ice Beam is there to OHKO Gligar and 2HKO Hippopotas. The last move was upto a matter of preference. Pursuit made Cranidos a great trapper, and made it useful for picking off weakened Pokemon without any trouble, whereas Zen Headbutt allowed you to OHKO the likes of Machop.

    Choice Scarf Cranidos also works as a great lead, OHKOing all the top ten leads with its 4 moves, only fearing Phanpy.

    **********
    [​IMG]


    One may ask then, why does Cranidos not see much action anymore? The answer is simple: Priority moves. Cranidos' unfortunate typing means it is left open to common priority moves such as Vacuum Wave from Croagunk and Aqua Jet from Kabuto or Squirtle. Furthermore, Pokemon such as Aron find opportunites to set up on resisted Stone Edges due to its high innate Defense. Other decently bulky Pokemon like Gligar can set up after one of their Pokemon die to Pursuit. In both of these scenarios, this could spell the end of many a team.

    Cranidos can also run other sets effectively, such as Rock Polish, which allows you to switch attacks, making you even more threatening, or as a Trick Room Sweeper in conjunction with Hammer Arm.

    **********
    [​IMG]


    So go ahead and discuss what you think about Cranidos, how it would work in today's metagame and any creative sets you might use. And no Dracoyoshi, SubPetaya doesnt count :P.
  2. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Its sad to see such a monster drop so far in use, even with priority around its a huge threat. I mean, it always 1KOes standard Gligar with SR down with its neutral STAB attack (95.65% - 117.39%)... So you don't need Ice Beam. Using double STAB is a pretty fun option IME. With Head Smash + Rock Slide you don't have to use such a risky move for KOing weaker things, but still have vast raw power available when you need it.

    And Zen Headbutt>Pursuit any day. Catching ghosts is fun and all, but Machop/Mankey really annoy you otherwise.
  3. Heysup

    Heysup CANadian not a CANTnadian
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    If you want some cool LC history involving Cranidos:

    Cranidos effectively shaped the pre-HGSS metagame as it is today, without even being used often in the current metagame!

    Confused? Well, Cranidos was a huge threat "back in the day". In order for people to prepare for it and keep a semi-offensive mindset, they had few choices. However, some people found out that a very promising sweeper could switch into Cranidos and hit the metagame where it hurts. This sweeper was named "ScarfChop". Now, after the metagame started revolving around Choice Scarf Machop, and even the odd Mankey, one of the most terrible threats to enter the metagame was created, specifically to take advatange of these Choiced Fighting types. SubSneak Missy was made so that the user could simply switch in on a choiced fighting attack, set up a Substitue, and dismantle the opposing team. Than HGSS happened.....etc.
  4. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    HYU, Zbutt easily OHKOes Machop so I dont know what you are talking about, and it outpaces it as well.

    This is just one of the scarfers who are easily outsped by Cranidos, and this IMO adds to the danger, as your 21 Scarfer just wont cut it against the sheer power and speed of CRanidos

    Rawr
  5. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Forcing Crani to run ZH was one of the first things Machop did, but being locked into a 80 BP Psychic move is not good, even for something as powerful as Crani. Too much resists it or is immune for it to be a safe move to use, and you basically have to do it on a predicted switch.
  6. Kir

    Kir

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    Since I only started playing LC a week ago, I'd like to clarify something. Are you guys saying that there was a time when ScarfChop wasn't popular? His usage simply rose over time because he could handle a ScarfCranidos, similar to how ScarfJirachi was popularized over time because he can revenge kill just about all of the top threats? If so, that is very interesting (and surprising) imo.

    Agreeing with eric that Ice Beam is pointless since Stone Edge is already beating Gligar. That way you can use Pursuit and Zen Headbutt, or, as I think I'd prefer, two Rock STAB moves with Pursuit.

    The free turn that Wynaut provides is interesting for a Rock Polish set, but I think I'd rather use the free turn to set up a RP Aron as opposed to RP Cranidos, partly because of Aron's higher defense (doesn't lose much if any attack power in comparison to Cranidos since he can use Head Smash but Cranidos is stuck with Stone Edge).

    I'd have to playtest Cranidos before forming a real opinion on him, though.
  7. TPM

    TPM

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    At one point ScarfChop wasn't popular, and ScarfCrani was. HeYsUp started using ScarfChop to switch into ScarfCrani and threaten, and then realised he was very good. People started to catch on to ScarfCHop and realised he was ridiculously powerful in the metagame, to the point where he was considered near-broken. Then SubSneak Missy was made to counter him, aswell as Slowpoke being discovered. The metagame then gradually decentralized from ScarfChop.
  8. Heysup

    Heysup CANadian not a CANTnadian
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    @ TPM:

    For the record I didn't "start" ScarfChop, I think Beef was using it before me.

    Being forced to use ZHB is what essentially took away Cranidos's utility. It couldn't run Pursuit + Ice Beam, so it had slight Gligar problems, not to mention ZHB gave MixDour (at the time it was incredibly popular) a free Life Orbed Fire Blast / Crunch which are stupidly hard to switch into.

    Plus, Machop had Bullet Punch to revenge kill if needed. It was a stellar check imo.

    @ Kir:

    Cranidos actually does have Head Smash, but it takes recoil.
  9. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    I do see where this influence is coming from.

    If we tried to imagine a metagame where ScarfCrani didn't once exist, there would probably not have been a ScarfChop, so probably not have been a SUbSneak MIssy (unless Elekid was extremely common). In the absence of ScarfChop, perhaps Munchlax would have more usage, and Shuppet might have been used more to KO Missy with Shadow Sneak while Missy ran SubCM. and etc etc etc

    I can see where this cascade is coming from, and I think we are all grateful (or loathful) towards ScarfCranidos for making our metagame what it is today :)

    rawr (in case you were wondering, all my posts in this thread will end with rawr :) )
  10. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    SubSneak Misdreavus was IIRC more for Croagunk than ScarfChop, but w/e.

    (Actually, I used Scarf Sandshrew to deal with Cranidos, but I'm just a weirdo.)
  11. Kir

    Kir

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    Munchlax just so happens to be one of Machop's best partner's, though, because of his ability to Pursuit ghosts. So if you want to use ScarfChop, you are also using a pokemon that your opponent's ScarfChop can exploit. I guess my point is that a metagame centralized around ScarfChop would have been very interesting to experience, and to think that this Machop metagame existed largely because of a preceding ScarfCranidos metagame is pretty cool.

    And Heysup, I get that Cranidos has Head Smash (I think I'd use Head Smash and Stone Edge both on Scarf Cranidos, personally, since they serve very different purposes, and Ice Beam is pointless) but on a RP set, you'd never be able to sweep with Head Smash as your STAB. Thus, he is "forced" into using Stone Edge so I prefer Aron for his better defense. Sorry for that confusion.
  12. TPM

    TPM

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    The "ScarfChop" meta was ass. Switching into Machop was nigh impossible, so you often had to predict very well or revenge kill it, and it could just switch. I think someone described ScarfChop perfectly in this statement:
    "It may not 6-0, but it can kill all 6 of your Pokemon"
    Luckily, it was short-lived, with the advent of the next centralizing force, SubSneak Missy.
    Anyways, I don't know much about the metagame in its current state; how does ScarfCrani fare in it?
  13. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    Late MGX is late.

    ScarfCrani has unfortunately taken a hit currently with the sudden boom in SubVanha usage (thanks Vader). However it possesses the ability to OHKO many common threats such as Dratini and Misdreavus right now, so with proper support it has a great chacne to flourish again.

    Which is why I am urging everyone here to go and try Cranidos out!

    rawr
  14. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Scarf Cranidos is capable of outspeeding +1 Dratini, from what I can recall, and its Extremespeed resistance can make it a pretty clutch way to take the bastard out. Given that my previous way of dealing with it involved using a 100% healthy Scarf Magnemite, I'll probably try Cranidos instead.
  15. Heysup

    Heysup CANadian not a CANTnadian
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    The only problem is that Cranidos is incredibly frail and doesn't resist Stealth Rock. You'll still take a respectable chunk of damage from a +1 ExtremeSpeed (39.13% - 47.83%), so you'll need to not switch Cranidos into anything previously. It also can't risk switching into Outrage like Magnemite can (it can at least survive). It is still a pretty excellent check though.
  16. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight prominent CAP users
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    For the record the only reason Cranidos isn't seeing much use anymore is because I haven't been playing LC, and therefore, the Beat Up teams I use with him have not affected ladder stats.

    Realistically though, Cranidos is still a huge threat. I always preferred RP because your opponent was totally screwed if they didn't have any (SE) priority left. You could even go bold with Rock Slide and flinchax your way to victory.

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