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ExLax Duo -- Powerful Defensive Core

Discussion in 'VGC' started by Rosenfeldius, Mar 11, 2014.

  1. Rosenfeldius

    Rosenfeldius

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    Hello everyone. I am not new to the VGC environment, but this is my first posting here. Allow me to share with you one of the most difficult to break cores in the doubles environment that I have ever seen, and I hope you like it.

    EXEGGUTOR + SNORLAX

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Snorlax @ Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Thick Fat
    EVs: 68 Atk / 252 HP / 52 SDef / 136 Def
    Adamant Nature
    - Curse
    - Earthquake
    - Return
    - Yawn

    Exeggutor (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Harvest
    EVs: 248 HP / 232 SDef / 28 Def
    Calm Nature
    - Skill Swap
    - Leaf Storm
    - Power Swap
    - Protect

    Here's the way it works. Both pokemon pack two of the best abilities for defensive pokemon, Harvest and Thick Fat. Harvest gives you a near-unlimited supply of berries, and thick fat halves damage from Fire and Ice attacks. Snorlax, despite having immense bulk, is heavily burdened by lack of reliable recovery outside of Rest, which is too much of a risk for many players to be willing to take in this environment. Exeggutor, on the other hand, has unlimited recovery in Harvest (somewhat), but is burdened by weaknesses in both Fire and Ice, two very common offensive types. The reason this core works? Skill Swap.

    For those of you not familiar with the move, it swaps abilities with the target. So, upon using this, Snorlax gains Harvest and thus access to unlimited recovery, and Exeggutor gains Thick Fat, eliminating its fire and ice weaknesses.

    Incredible, no?

    For pokemon with intimidate that threaten Snorlax, Power Swap turns that over on the opponent and cripples them viciously (poor Salamence + Mega Mawile). Snorlax's moveset is fairly standard and self-explanatory.

    Now, as indestructible as this duo seems, that unfortunately isn't the case. Gengar with Shadow Ball and Focus Blast can break through the core without much of a problem. If Snorlax has not set up Curse yet, so can Infernape. Chandelure breezes by the two without breaking a sweat. However, with proper support from the rest of the team, no worries should be had.

    There you have it. It is truly a remarkable core, I encourage everyone to give it a try at least once. That's all I have for now, cheers
  2. Professor Birch

    Professor Birch

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    I do not see this working. Mega Charizard Y is way to common and since it outspeeds both these mons, it can OHKO Exeggutor with Heat Wave before it even gets the chance to attack.
  3. Vryheid

    Vryheid fudge jelly

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    If only there was some move that could protect slower Pokemon, especially vulnerable ones like Exeggutor, before the opponent had a chance to attack...
    Rosenfeldius likes this.
  4. Rosenfeldius

    Rosenfeldius

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    Protect is there for a reason. Also, nobody in their right mind would leave a Grass type out against Zard Y. Protect Exeggutor, yawn Zard Y. Switch out if need be.

    ^he gets it.
  5. TheMantyke

    TheMantyke ᴵ ᶰᵉᵉᵈ ᵃ ᵐᵒᶰˢᵗᵉʳ ᵗᵒ ᶜᶫᵒᵇᵇᵉʳ ᵗʰᵃᵗ ᵗʰᵉʳᵉ ᴷᶦʳᵇʸ
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus
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    Eh, to be honest, I think you're overselling this. Exeggutor and Snorlax are both alright Pokemon, but they have a few condemming features I don't really see answered here. They're both slow and get blasted by a lot of the format's top Pokemon. With your current set, Exeggutor is pretty much absolutely useless versus any two mons that resist Grass which allows your opponent to just double target your protectless Snorlax. Additionally, the fact you mention Infernape as something that can break through it lends me to believe this is routed more in theorymon than actual success on battlespot / PS!

    I can see the individual Pokemon working together, but I don't see justifying it as some amazing top tier combo with a cheesy name.
  6. Professor Birch

    Professor Birch

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    You do realize that Protect prevents you from doing anything, still ruining the strategy. It will just OHKO the next turn without you accomplishing anything. Also, if you have to switch out, that also ruins the strategy.
  7. Rosenfeldius

    Rosenfeldius

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    Yawn.
  8. Professor Birch

    Professor Birch

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    Doesnt go right away. Still gives Zard the chance to kill it. Imo, this is based on too much luck.
  9. Rosenfeldius

    Rosenfeldius

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    Perhaps I am. Maybe it does belong in theorymon, like you say, but I have been testing this core. I only mentioned Infernape because I know it can, I have yet to face one for some reason. Have I been arduously testing it for months? No. But so far it has been very successful.
  10. Professor Birch

    Professor Birch

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    You havent faced it yet because Infernape isnt VGC 14 legal.
    Darkerones likes this.
  11. Rosenfeldius

    Rosenfeldius

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    That does explain that.
  12. TheMantyke

    TheMantyke ᴵ ᶰᵉᵉᵈ ᵃ ᵐᵒᶰˢᵗᵉʳ ᵗᵒ ᶜᶫᵒᵇᵇᵉʳ ᵗʰᵃᵗ ᵗʰᵉʳᵉ ᴷᶦʳᵇʸ
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus
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    If you've been successful with it, then try to sell your success as what it really has been. If you've had much success without noticing that Snorlax getting double targeted by any of the format's plentiful strong physical attackers like Kangaskhan and Mawile (who even at -1 is still ripping Snorlax apart) and that Exeggutor's mono grass coverage leaves it vulnerable to simply being ignored, I would say you haven't gone against too many competent opponents.

    Overselling the success of any unconventional Pokemon (which is something I'll admit I'm guilty of) is a bad habit. You end up fooling yourself into thinking things that can work inconsistently are reliable and, worse yet, tricking newer players into thinking what you're using is up their with the format tried and tested best Pokemon and that they ought to be able to easily recreate your success to the magnitude you're describing.
    Professor Birch likes this.
  13. Rosenfeldius

    Rosenfeldius

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    This is on a new account, so it's very far down the ladder, but here is a demonstration:
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/vgc2014-97463085

    I know you'd prefer a better video higher on the ladder; I'll post a video higher up on the ladder soon.

    It doesn't ruin the strategy, just prevents it from taking place immediately.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 11, 2014
  14. JMach

    JMach

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    I actually love this strategy. Sure, it's rarely going to sweep the entire meta from turn one but, given the right support (and teammate choices), I could see it being incredibly frustrating for unprepared teams.

    I would perhaps suggest not just limiting it to a lead strategy though. I think it requires opposing pokes to be weakened so Exegg has a space to switch in. Then the GSC dominator can setup and belly flop the game.
    Rosenfeldius likes this.
  15. Rosenfeldius

    Rosenfeldius

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    Yes yes, you're right. I need to change the title. Thanks!
  16. TheMantyke

    TheMantyke ᴵ ᶰᵉᵉᵈ ᵃ ᵐᵒᶰˢᵗᵉʳ ᵗᵒ ᶜᶫᵒᵇᵇᵉʳ ᵗʰᵃᵗ ᵗʰᵉʳᵉ ᴷᶦʳᵇʸ
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus
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    I wouldn't call this a good demonstration at all. Your opponent tried to set up a Calm Mind Gardevoir and let a Mega Mawile set up to +6 and didn't bother to preserve their Conkeldurr for the Snorlax they saw in team preview. That really a good opponent nor did Snorlax really get anything done normal Snorlax couldn't do on his own.

    Also, please don't make multiple posts in a row, there's an edit button to simply add new content to your old posts.
    The problem is, having a team prepared for it is as easy as packing a Kagaskhan, Mawile, Garchomp, Talonflame, Ferrothorn or just about any two physical attackers that don't mind taking one Leaf Storm or Return to deal with it. They're slow, they have easily exploitable vulnerabilities, and once their set up is done, they're still not that threatening.

    Rosenfeldius, if I were you, I would drop the ability swapping set up altogether and just run with a Sitrus Berry Exeggutor and a Leftovers Snorlax. They both have their individual merits that make them worth using (being able to get rid of Rotom-W and Amoonguss at the same time with Eggy is very cool and Snorlax is a decent answer to Char Y and friends), but this set up is throwing in some uneeded and underwhelming set up and detracting from both Pokemon heavily.
    Darkerones and Rosenfeldius like this.
  17. JMach

    JMach

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    Agreed, I guess. It's so tempting to give love to gimmicky sets I'm afraid :P

    I always find Snorlax to be fairly underrated in all honesty. People seem to shy away because of the prominence of strong physical fighting types.

    All it needs is some decent team support and it can make some big dents. Nice try at this core anyway Rosenfeldius, I enjoyed your originality even if it somewhat lacks viability!
    Rosenfeldius likes this.
  18. Rosenfeldius

    Rosenfeldius

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    You're probably right. I've had decent success but probably because I've been facing incompetent opponents. Although, as far as gimmicks go, this doesn't even come close to the Protean Salamence set I was trying. (Protip: don't)
  19. TheMantyke

    TheMantyke ᴵ ᶰᵉᵉᵈ ᵃ ᵐᵒᶰˢᵗᵉʳ ᵗᵒ ᶜᶫᵒᵇᵇᵉʳ ᵗʰᵃᵗ ᵗʰᵉʳᵉ ᴷᶦʳᵇʸ
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus
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    Also you missed an extremely easy opportunity to name this core ExLax :(
    JMach and Rosenfeldius like this.
  20. Rosenfeldius

    Rosenfeldius

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    Fixed
  21. Darkerones

    Darkerones

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    Yeah on paper Exeggutor and Snorlax are not awful Pokemon at all, perhaps even on the same team, but the strategy you're using here is pretty gratuitous in my opinion and just wastes turns and actually detracts from the Pokemon's individual merits (why would you want to take away Snorlax 's Thick Fat to something with base 65 SDef?)
    So I'm going to also suggest just using the standard sets for each. I can see Chlorophyll Exeggutor being really fun with Zard Y now that I think on it.
  22. klvkboom

    klvkboom

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    While the combo does "sound" good in theory, it has too many issues with a lot of common Pokes in VGC. Defensive Pokes naturally have a hard time doing their job in a doubles format since double-targetting is a possibility. Not to mention the lack of real disruption, this composition relies on getting set-up with no way of slowing the opponent down.

    Charizard has been mentioned quite a lot already so I should point out some other threats. Kangaskhan has no issue getting free Power-Up Punches, Mawile can essentially 2HKO anything that does not resist, Talonflame hits Exeggutor way too hard, literally the sheer force of Pokes now makes defensive based strategies hard to pull off (except for Leech Seed/WoW/Protect shenanigans). And that's just damage-wise, support Pokes will give you just as much trouble. Taunt gives the composition a lot of problems, and you'll have to pray you don't go against something with Encore.

    Then again I do like the creativity and even though it may not be truely competitive, it's a fun combo. I wish creativity like this was more rewarded imho, but I guess the only rewarding form of creativity now is just the tinkering of movesets and EV spreads on the commonly used Pokes. meh
  23. Rosenfeldius

    Rosenfeldius

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    Right, right. The more I've tried it, the more problems I've had. The big focus of the set is Harvest Snorlax, so if that can get set up it's pretty durable no matter what. But I've found Exeggutor works better in other ways, namely skill swapping Huge Power from Mawile, or Parental Bond from Kangaskhan, basically neutering them both.

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