1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Expert Belt Attack!

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by LucaroarkZ, Aug 13, 2012.

  1. LucaroarkZ

    LucaroarkZ

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,364
    [​IMG]Expert Belt Attack![​IMG]

    Ever heard of this item "Expert Belt"? I love this item. Too many times people switch in *insert Pokemon here* thinking it's choiced, but then I can nail them with the appropriate super effective move! This is a surprise factor I love using, but I never really get around to it as I'm either busy using typical Smogon stuff or using Zoroark as my surprise factor. But now, I decided... "Hey, you know what two Pokemon are commonly Choiced?" The answer: Stoutland and Latios. So, what happens when you put an Expert Belt on them? Pure glory, which I am now going to show you:

    [​IMG]

    Tyranitar @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Pursuit
    - Crunch
    - Fire Blast

    So, to start off, I was going to need to start up a Sandstorm, as Stoutland is basically only viable in sand. So, how do you do this? Tyranitar! So, I also needed Stealth Rock, so the answer to this problem is to simply use a Specially defensive Stealth Rock Tyranitar, taken straight from the current analysis in the OU Analyses subforum that passed QC recently. In addition, this is probably the best way to take care of opposing Latios. Latios can only 2HKO this bad boy if it carries Grass Knot (and even then it's not doing so if it simply carries Expert Belt), while I can leave it for dead as it switches out by using Pursuit. If these things decide they wanna stay in (not very likely), I can just go for Crunch and get rid of them. Crunch also lets me hit Jellicent. I use Fire Blast because not only do I want to prevent Lucario from setting up, but it also lets me hit things like Skarmory, Ferrothorn, or Forretress who otherwise think they can wall me.

    [​IMG]

    Lucario @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Close Combat
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Bullet Punch

    If I could say anything about Swords Dance Lucario, it would be: "It's amazing. Don't ever use any other Lucario set." I did Lucario's BW2 revamp, and there's a good reason Swords Dance is the only set there: It's Lucario's only truly good set. It's even better with Justified! No, really. Justified is leagues better than Inner Focus just because of how much a +2 Close Combat does to 252/0 Jirachi: 123.51 - 145.04%. If I only have a Justified boost, it's still doing 92.57 - 109.15% to that same Jirachi. Seriously, stop using Inner Focus, it's a useless ability. Justified boosts are pretty easy to get as well as I've got 2 Pokemon weak to Dark and Lucario 4x resists Dark. ExtremeSpeed is ExtremeSpeed, lets Lucario get past faster Pokemon, while I use Bullet Punch alongside it to beat Gengar and Terrakion, both of which are pretty big threats otherwise.

    [​IMG]

    Slowbro @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
    Relaxed Nature
    - Scald
    - Psychic
    - Ice Beam
    - Slack Off

    How is Slowbro not OU yet? I really don't get it - You can take on Conkeldurr (Payback does shit damage to Slowbro, and I use 0 Speed IVs to ensure Slowbro is as slow as possible), you can take on fuckin' Lucario (+2 Crunch doesn't OHKO), and... do I need to go on? Regenerator makes it a more effective physical wall than Skarmory in my opinion, and we all know how annoying Scald is. I use Psychic over Psyshock because it's better for Conkeldurr (not like Slowbro is even a remotely good Keldeo check anyway). Ice Beam lets me hit things like Dragonite and Gliscor, while Slack Off is for healing when it's probably best if Slowbro just stays in.

    [​IMG]

    Amoonguss @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 28 SAtk / 228 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Spore
    - Stun Spore
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Love it or hate it, Amoonguss is actually a really good Pokemon. Resisting Keldeo's and Breloom's STABs is a pretty big deal, while I can put their alleged "counter" to sleep with Spore. Bye-bye counter! Once they switch out when I use Spore, I go for Stun Spore and if it's some offensive Pokemon, they're fucked. Giga Drain lets me actually hit Keldeo and Hidden Power Ice ensures I can hit Breloom and also hit things like Tornadus-T who think they can just get a free switch-in.

    [​IMG]

    Stoutland @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Sand Rush
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Return
    - Wild Charge
    - Superpower
    - Fire Fang

    The first half of my Expert Belt duo, Stoutland is probably the best Pokemon on this team. Gaining Superpower made it even better as it's no longer walled by Heatran. Although using an Expert Belt on Stoutland may seem like the worst idea ever, after I take something out with Return and they go to their Steel, I can then nail them with the appropriate move. At first I was skeptical of Wild Charge due to the recoil and Electric resists like Ferrothorn and Gliscor, but then I tried it and it's really good, allowing it to hit things like Politoed on the switch-in, helping me win the weather war. Fire Fang seems like the worst idea ever, but this lets me hit Forretress and the newly-released Genesect. Besides, I don't need Pursuit (already have it on T-tar) and when I used Crunch Stoutland, I never went for Crunch.

    [​IMG]

    Latios @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Grass Knot
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    How to use Latios: Bring it in. You see those four moves there? Yeah, just click Draco Meteor. Once something's dead, switch out. Rinse and repeat until your opponent has no Pokemon left. No. No. Don't ever do that. Here's what I prefer to do: Predict Pursuit users. Tyranitar? Go for Grass Knot, it 2HKOes all but Specially Defensive Tyranitar. Scizor? Hidden Power Fire, that shit's dead. They switch in a resist to whatever move you went for? Okay, you can probably go for Draco Meteor now. Unless it's Keldeo, you should probably go for Psyshock in that case. Psyshock is also the strongest option against the pink blobs (though I should have no trouble with those).
  2. branhoff

    branhoff

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Messages:
    23
    Seems like a solid team! I'm beginning to turn around with Amoonguss. I've never used Stoutland before but I'll have to take a look into him. Have you had luck in the ladder with this team?
  3. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,368
    Interesting team and concept to bud around.Let's get to the rate.

    For starterers there really isn't a large flaw with this team as far as I can see. However I do think that you should definitely replace Stoutland with an Expert Belt Landorus. Stoutland power with Return is quite lackluster but Landorus will be a much more powerful offensive piece. In addition, the targets Landorus removes will be much more relevant to Lucario's sweep than Stoutland, particularly Gliscor. The standard Expert Belt will suffice
  4. Mupa97

    Mupa97

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2011
    Messages:
    79
    Alright, looks fairly solid like how most Smogon RMTs are. Just the minor things that count I suppose.

    I would firstly suggest Ice Fang instead of Wild Bold on Stoutland to hit Gliscor, which gives your Lucario some trouble. Return should be hitting Waters hard enough, and if it's not (thanks to the lack of Expert Belt power boost) you can run Life Orb instead.

    And on Latios, I suggest getting rid of Psyshock since it's not going to be killing Blisseys and Chansey without a Choice Specs. Yes, it's good for Keldeo, but in all honesty, Keldeo is easily dealt by with Amoonguss and not to mention its STABs are resisted by Latios anyways. And Draco Meteor will be doing enough. I suggest using Surf to hurt Heatran, who is a slight problem as you don't have Superpower on Tyranitar. Or you can run Roost / Recover for healing once your cover's blown off that you're Expert Belted.

    Overall it's a pretty solid team like the other two have mentioned.
  5. LucaroarkZ

    LucaroarkZ

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,364
    Actually I haven't had the best of experience with Ice Punch Lucario in the current metagame. It used to be good for Gliscor, but from my experience most Gliscor nowadays are running enough Speed to outspeed Adamant Lucario. Landorus-T is kind of iffy as well - Ice Punch helps against the standard defensive variant, but is screwed against Choice Scarf. Most Salamence use Moxie nowadays (in fact, I have yet to see a Salamence with Intimidate in BW2), in which case Salamence is OHKOed by a +2 ExtremeSpeed after Stealth Rock. I've been able to use Slowbro to beat Dragonite, while if SR is up a +2 Close Combat outright OHKOes offensive variants of Dragonite with the Stealth Rock damage. Either way, Gengar is a huge threat without Bullet Punch (I guess Amoonguss can kind of wall it, but Gengar's subs will block Spore/Stun Spore and I'm pretty sure Amoonguss does laughable damage in return), so for now I plan on keeping Bullet Punch. Shed Shell Tyranitar is something to test, though.

    Although Return doesn't benefit from the Expert Belt, it is still Stoutland's best option when it cannot hit the opposing Pokemon super effectively. I could probably try Ice Fang though to make Gliscor easier to handle (Most Stoutland nowadays don't use Ice Fang so Gliscor probably won't think about switching out)

    As for Amoonguss, I've been considering just simply running a spread of 248 HP / 40 Def / 220 SpD. The Special Attack EVs don't really give Amoonguss any notable KOs, and in fact I'm still trying to figure out why the analysis has them right now.
  6. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    2,899
    Solid team, I feel like a lot of the threats and such have been mentioned already so I'll keep this one short. If you're finding yourself questioning the current Amoonguss spread, I might recommend 192 HP | 56 Def | 252 SDef | 8 Spd. This spread gives HP a Regenerator number, ensuring maximum HP recovery upon switching, while it also optimizes the defensive EVs so that SDef is fully covered and Def gets enough to survive big hits from Landorus, Terrakion, and Scizor. The remaining 8 EVs are dumped into Speed, if you ever need to outspeed and Spore a Reuniclus or Slowbro for some reason. They may look needless, but they can be lifesaving at times.

    Another suggestion, despite the theme of the team, is that you change Stoutland to a Choice Band holder instead of the Expert Belt. I know you're running EBelt for surprise factor, originality, et cetera, but the reason more people use CB than EBelt is because CB is simply a better choice of an item. Stoutland is meant to be a hard-hitting late game sweeper and/or revenge killer, and it does those jobs better with CB amplifying its power. If you're bent on not being locked into a move, at least give Life Orb a try. The entire purpose behind EBelt, after all, is to boost the power of super-effective moves, but when the primary move you'll be spamming late-game has nothing it can hit for super-effective damage, it's rather pointless. Latios, on the other hand, is a fantastic Expert Belt user.

    Finally, I understand this team does fairly well against most offense, but from the looks of it I don't think the same could be said for stall. Rain stall, especially, seems nearly impossible to beat considering your current lineup. Your only hope is to attempt to weaken the stall team's physical wall(s) with Stoutland, then go for a late-game SD Lucario sweep, which can be hard to do with Tentacruel, Quagsire, Politoed, and Gastrodon around as secondary defensive support. I don't know what to suggest for this weakness, as it's not really a single Pokemon that causes it, just the structure and motif of the team in general. Oh well, that's BW for you. Team matchup decides half the battles nowadays.

    I like the balance created by the combination of a Lucario-Latios offensive core and a Slowbro-Amoonguss defensive core. Also, the TCG presentation is innovative and looks nice. For that, you've earned a Luvdisc. Consider the changes I listed, please, and good luck!
  7. afterburn

    afterburn Villain of some untold story
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2009
    Messages:
    684
    Life Orb Tornadus-T, Quiver Dance Volcarona (w/ Dugtrio on a sun team), and Calm Mind / Trickroom Reuniclus seem problematic. Tornadus backed up by rain can come in and straight up Hurricane everything on the team for major damage (bar Tyranitar). You can't just simply send Tyranitar in to change the weather either, because you risk getting KOed by Superpower and losing your weather. Volcarona and Reuniclus both get set-up opportunities on Stoutland and Latios after recoil from Superpower and Draco Meteor, with their respective stats weakened from the recoil (the latter could also set-up on Amoonguss after something is asleep). Both can then sweep you outright with their respective boosted hits. Tyranitar can take a Bug Buzz, but doesn't have anything to KO back, and if it's trapped by Dugtrio, you're gonna be in a really bad position.

    First change is simple; try a Chople Berry on Tyranitar, and you may want to try an Adamant nature to have a better shot at 2HKOing 252/252 Bold Reuniclus, as you will Crunch as it Focus Blasts, hanging on with the berry, then Crunch again to KO. Rock Slide over Fire Blast is a good option with Adamant, as you also survive Tornadus's Superpower and can KO back. Rock Slide > Stone Edge because whatever it is you need to KO with Stone Edge, you can do the same with Rock Slide without the greater chance of a miss.

    Now I know you based this team around Stoutland and Latios specifically, so I don't want to mess up your initial core by suggesting the next thing. HOWEVER, if you find yourself having a tough time with Volcarona under the sun when Tyranitar gets remove by Dugtrio, I'd try a Choice Scarf Terrakion over Stoutland. The reason I'm suggesting Terrakion is because of it's ability of being able to revenge the major threats on a Sun team, not leaving you completely open to them once Tyranitar goes down. Volcarona is also handled this way, and so are other common threats such as Heatran and Darmanitan (Venusaur to an extent, you outspeed and do a good amount with Stone Edge). Otherwise with Tyranitar down, I can see them causing you problems. Stoutland wasn't packing that much power to begin with IMO with Expert Belt, with Terrakion you have a dependable revenge killer in and out of sand, and still something to clean up with once Lucario has broken down the Physical Walls such as Skarmory and Hippowdon (you may want to consider Ice Punch, with Gliscor down, Terrakion could have a field day with the opponent). Again, since this is about replacing a member in your initial core, you may be against this change, but it doesn't change the purpose too much IMO, as you still have a great EBelt user in Latios, whom removing Scizor with HP Fire (when they switch-in thinking you're choiced) would be beneficial for Terrakion and it still takes the advantage of sand with the 1.5x SDef boost.

    Choice Scarf Terrakion (open)

    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly nature (+Spe, -SAtk)
    - Stone Edge
    - Close Combat
    - X-Scissor
    - Sacred Sword / Rock Slide
    ---
  8. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte I'll be your light, your match, your burning sun
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,968
    Hi,

    This is another solid team- very nice job. I side with nearly everyone else on Amoonguss's spread; I think Lavos Spawn's 192 HP / 56 Def / 252 SpD / 8 Spe is a good idea, though without the SpAtk EVs you are susceptable to SubCM Keldeo. I suggest Clear Smog instead of Stun Spore because of this- it hits as hard as neutral hidden power, and it erases any stat boosts your opponent could have gotten. Speed also isn't really problematic for your team; all of your offensive pokemon have 110+ spe or priority.

    Tyranitar needs an Adamant nature, Chople Berry, and Rock Slide- I hate sounding like a broken record but this is extremely necessary to hit Tornadus, who sweeps you in Rain.

    That's it for now. Good luck!

    EDIT: whooo 300 posts
  9. emirinho

    emirinho

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2010
    Messages:
    294
    Hello,

    Your team is very solid. You covered everything except fighting weakness. Slowbro cant do everything on its own. Once slowbro is dead you are dead if you opponent has a fast fighting typed pokemon.
    Thats why i would suggest you a Jirachi instead of Lucario. I know it seems weird but that will keep your synergy if not make it better and it will cover your fighting weakness. Because you can para stall any figting pokemon with jirachi except terrakion which is handled by slowbro. I would suggest you the specially defensive set because you need a sp def wall and because you can support your team.
    That would be it
  10. LucaroarkZ

    LucaroarkZ

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,364
    So I was looking over the rates for a while now, and on the first incarnation of this team, I actually was using Chople Berry with Rock Slide and I hated it. The loss of Leftovers recovery in my mind was huge, and really if it was exclusively for Tornadus-T I couldn't justify it at all. Plus, if I recall correctly +2 ExtremeSpeed from Lucario OHKOes Tornadus-T after Stealth Rock, so it is manageable. In fact, I've been considering using CB Tyranitar and replacing Amoonguss with a Stealth Rock user because this current Tyranitar is just complete shit in the weather war and Amoonguss is probably the worst Pokemon on this team. Choice Scarf Terrakion is definitely something to try though.

    @emirinho, I'm sorry but there is no way I am even considering using Jirachi. First off, Lucario is just such a good sweeper that I'm not replacing it. Second, I really do not like using specially defensive Jirachi at all. I only ever seriously used it on a hail team, but it was really the only thing that could have come close to what I wanted it to do. Either way, from my experience Body Slam is a horribly unreliable method of paralysis (60% = accuracy of Hypnosis), Thunder Wave is blocked by Ground-types (hi Dugtrio) and Volt Absorb users, and when you're relying on paraflinch to beat the opponent you know something's wrong. Even on my hail team it was so borderline that I honestly can't even consider using it anymore.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)