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[Expert Postgame] We don't need no Mafia!!!!

Discussion in 'Circus Maximus' started by Amelia, Jun 21, 2010.

  1. Amelia


    May 18, 2006
    We don't need no Hosts!​

    Welcome to the postgame of We don't need no Mafia, hosted by me and Gmax. In this thread, I will go through the game in depth, and Gmax is free to add his own comments (with editing, that mod).

    1) Design
    2) Team allocation
    3) Roles
    4) Awards
    5) Conclusion


    This all started from the day that Dak went "What if there were two villages"? I instantly took that as a challenge and well, since Gmax said he preferred not to play in Small Mafias, he offered to help me in hosting. Btw, thanks Gmax for all your help in this.

    With that, here's our first log.
    basics (open)

    <Gmax> mafia A has to kill Vill A and Mafia C
    <Gmax> mafia B has to kill Vill B and Mafia C
    <Gmax> Mafia C has to kill both mafias
    <Gmax> Vill 1 has to kill Mafia A and Vill 2
    <Gmax> Vill B has to kill Mafia B and Vill 1

    This 5 lines were the entire basis of this mafia, and we decided to go with it. However, since there were 5 different factions, i wanted to make it a basis to make each faction differently, so here are the faction outlines!
    Heroes (open)

    Village 1: Must win as fast as possible or be demolished, use their powerful powers to do so. Easy to mole.

    This went completely wrong lol. They had to play it slow and steady due to the loss of dak which completely destroyed the concept of the team, oh well.
    Unknowns (open)

    Village 2: Take their time to gain power, get united, and finally give the decision strike to their enemies. Uses plenty of trickery. Hard to mole into, easy to mole with.

    Again, this went completely wrong. They started out really strong, but then... they kinda went worse and worse. Whoops.

    Geniuses (open)
    Mafia 1: Use their powerful abilities to compensate for a lack of kills.

    .... apart from the fact that they're the only one killing in the early game...

    Criminals (open)
    Mafia 2: Use their every night kill to compensate for a lack of powerful abilities

    ...... apart from the fact that they killed the least... erm...

    Monsters (open)
    Mafia 3: Use trickery and do not appear until it's too late.

    They almost succeeded in this. The whole key here was that they would win with kidnaps, but unfortunately most of the kidnaps failed, or else i think they would have won this.

    So anyway, as you can see from the teams, i went completely wrong. Whoops. So, continue on. Numbers were pretty easy.

    Village = 8 Each
    Mafia = 4 Each
    Neutrals = 2​

    However, try as we might, we couldn't get a second neutral that would keep the game balance (not that it had balance anyway). Which came out to 1 Neutral, despite the word "Neutrals". A lot of people fell for it, I'm sorry, but it should have been pretty obvious ><

    So, team composition. I think i'll just compare the teams then give my thoughts from there.

    Part 1 (open)
    Heroes - Unknown
    Bodyguard/Safeguard - Bodyguard / Silencer
    Inspector 1 - Bodyguard / Hooker
    Inspector 2 - Inspector

    I think the unknown got the good end of the roles here. Two bodyguards were useful all the time, and the fact that they could be used for offense was even better. Inspectors get worse as time goes on, as they all found out. (Not to mention the Unknown pulled out extremely good BGs early game).

    Part 2 (open)
    Silencer / Vote Increaser - Persuader / Vote Increaser

    Where i screwed up. Increasing votes could be used on yourself to increase your votes for the Heroes, whereas Persuader couldn't do that. Heroes won with this imbalance.

    Super Mayor - Sheriff / Champion

    Unknown got the better side here. United team helped them a lot, compared to the heroes which remained.... disorganized even at the end of the game.

    Part 3 (open)
    Vigilante if night - Vigilante if day

    Urgh. Heroes got off one kill with Ike, which was on a non-target anyway, whereas Unknown didn't even get any off. Bad.

    Hooker - Wormbot

    Lol. Heroes got this better off.... but wormbot helped with a few stealth votes XD.

    Reviver - Super Back-up

    Unknown got the better end here. Altair helped a lot with his mayor votes, even if he was hooked a bit, whereas Askaninjask... screwed up, yeah.

    So which team was better in the end? I don't think i can say anything, since they look pretty even to me. Anyway, here is the Spreadsheet if you want to see it, I've opened it.

    I'll talk about the mafia next.

    Geniuses were given really strong roles... but their kill system has been a mystery so far. Here it is.
    They needed 2 people out of 4 to kill, and when Mekkah was kidnapped early, it became worse and worse lol. However, they had Absorber/Kidnapper, Robot Creator, Bodyguard/LynchFuck, and Multipurpose Man. It was a good selection of roles, and it served them well. (Apart from LW absorbing Shade and getting the power to throw Cell Juniors at people).

    Criminals were given weak roles, with a strong priority in all things. Standard Hooker, Standard Inspector, Standard Killer, Not-So-But-Still-Standard Rogue/BG. To further compensate, they were defensive in nature, with the Rogue on a BG, and lynchrproof on their Hooker.

    Monsters weren't even given a kill at first, but they had a every night-kidnap, and if they were fast and lucky enough, could easily have won from the start. They were combined with a mass inspector, a Double-Protected Hooker, and a BG with 3 hook charges (or a Hooker with 3 BG charges i guess).

    So, with that, the design part is over.

    Team Allocation

    I wonder whether any of you realized it, but in this game, not a single person was assigned randomly. We started off with the big 5, Mekkah, Jackal, Evan, Dak, and Earthworm, and we assigned one to each team. Mekkah/Earthworm will ally against Dak/Evan, whereas Jackal will behave like the wolf switching sides and whacking. The three *newbies*, Aura_guardian and Unclesam were each assigned to a different mafia team to gain experience from their teammates. One of them failed completely but I'll go onto that later.

    With that, we went on. Evan would have troubles, since he was quite inactive lately, so we gave him two quite good people, Jimbo and Fishin. Ok, I lied, Jimbo was in the Boring Criminals from the start due to the "A huge whale".

    On the other hand, Mekkah probably had the strongest team lol. Mekkah, Blue_light, Lightwolf, and Flounder were probably the best out there. I enjoyed their channel pretty much, but they were screwed by luck (Mekkah being kidnapped, Lightwolf absorbing a Hooker). We were sure all 4 of them would get along great, especially team Mekkahwolf, and they did.

    Monsters... well, their lineup was actually pretty good too, to be honest (then again, this was an expert game). Jackal, Cyzir_visheen, Dubulous, and Unclesam could all hold their own, and as a team they worked well enough... with one problem. Timezone issues XD. Jackal and Cyzir worked together before in FE so we thought they would work well together again.

    Unknowns had Earthworm as their leader. To ensure his safety, we paired him up with Veedrock which was actually supposed to be Jumpluff XD but she was still recovering alas. Bass and Thorns would get along well with both of them, so we put them on as well. Agape and Altair were great during Pokemafia so we paired them up. Accent seemed like he would gel well with them, and dak would enjoy him being an enemy so on he went. There was no better candidate for LonelyNess's role than LN himself, aside from maybe dak but he was on the other team. None of them really did anything wrong, so it's quite a good team i guess.

    Heroes... XD. Let me divide them. Dak as the leader of the countries, along with Shade, Exarius and Billymills, all handpicked as people he can work well with. However, this was combined with Reyscarface, Eo Ut Mortus, Askaninjask, and Da Letter El, people he didn't really know and thus wouldn't work well with. The four of them knew each other well enough though, so we assumed they wouldn't have much trouble communicating early on, and as the game went on. The conflicting flavor of the heroes (4 Countries / 4 Heroes) will work even more to break them up. However, when Dak died, this plan failed XD.

    So yeah, this whole thing was set up to see fireworks, and i wasn't really disappointed with how everyone behaved.

    I'll go onto the roles in the next post, along with comments, how the role was designed, and how they played.
  2. Amelia


    May 18, 2006

    I won't be putting images as i'm too lazy to find them, however if you guys really want it i guess i'll input them.

    The Overly Famous Heroes

    Role Design: The main part of the Heroes, this was worth 5 votes in total (he himself had 2 votes from the start), which would allow them to win the votes immediately. I had so high hopes for this role.

    Why Dak: Dak was meant to be the one who united the team, and since America knew there were countries out there, and it's obviously a famous thing, Dak was given this role to lead the Heroes.

    Comments: N/A. Too early to comment.

    Role Design: One of the main reasons why we didn't put in a godkill in here is because if a person had negative vote without knowledge due to the fact that he broke a rule, he would be worse off. This was meant to punish players who couldn't keep their mouth shut!

    With that said, this was also my worst imbalance yet. Billy increased his own vote to -3, and well, look what that did. I should have a cap of -1, which would make this role much more balanced and give more chance to everyone else.

    Why billy?: A person who can work with Dak. Lol. I can't really remember why else did i put him here.

    Comments: He caused the death of Shade, but made up with it by sealing the victory of the Heroes. Can't really blame him, he made use of what he had, it anything it was my fault to make such a broken role.

    RD: A Bg/Sg in one seemed correct, and putting him with the same side as Dak to protect him was also sound (or Guard him if there was the threat of Silence or Persuade). What i didn't mention here was that SG protected from everything excluding kills.... which means it would negate Bodyguard, Rogue, Inspection, you name it, it stops it.

    Why?: Exarius was another person Dak talked with, i assumed they would have no troubles working together.

    Comments: Exarius was hilarious at first, trying to mole the Unknowns with a neutral claim "Otacon", but was found out and used by the unknowns. He lost interest at the end of the game it seems, so downvote for that, although his team still won.
    Exarius (open)
    <LonelyNess> I make my own luck
    <LonelyNess> LonelyNess> Exarius
    <LonelyNess> <LonelyNess> You said before, we had no beef
    <LonelyNess> <Exarius> LonelyNess
    <LonelyNess> <Exarius> yes?
    <LonelyNess> <LonelyNess> I would like to extend an olive branch of beefiness
    <LonelyNess> <LonelyNess> I need your vote
    <LonelyNess> <Exarius> against DLE, I assume?
    <LonelyNess> <LonelyNess> yes
    <LonelyNess> <LonelyNess> if you vote with me, you will have mine and my faction's complete gratitude / loyalty
    <LonelyNess> <Exarius> if you want an answer, F5 the thread, thank you so much
    <LonelyNess> <LonelyNess> Your allegience with me will not be forgotten, Exarius
    <LonelyNess> and by luck
    <LonelyNess> I mean pathetically begging

    RD: Standard Hooker. I forgot to put in the "no targeting user twice in a row", although i probably wouldn't have placed the restriction on Shade, since he was a bog-standard hooker.

    Why?: Again, Shade worked well with Dak.

    Comments: Shade was the one leading the Heroes for a long time, so good job about that. However, he was screwed when Billy forgot to send in a PM (and later didn't vote), not his fault i guess.

    RD: Firstly, USER1/USER2 could be the same User, i even clarified it to him. I thought this would be a good way to get someone else inside the role, for example, reviving an inspector into dak's role to ensure that no one will know anything.

    Why?: I've already spoken about it in the first post XD

    Comments: Why couldn't you have revived Dak... why? Reviving Dak would have unified your team, given your team 5 freaking votes back, and well, doing good for the team. I honestly expected this role to be used only for either America or Ike, but >< well, i guess some things just won't go as planned.
    Askaninjask (open)
    askaninjask i moled altair
    askaninjask and i now know that the monsters cannot win with us!
    askaninjask either that or we've had 2 days of conversation filled with lies

    RD: It was much harder to activate compared to the Unknown Killer... but Day kill? Wow. A kill that ignores Hookers, Bodyguards, Rogues... Only Jackal could stop it.

    Why: Look at previous User.

    Comments: One kill gotten, which wasn't your fault. The kills suddenly sprang out late game. One kill used... against a Boring Criminal, who you weren't even fighting oh my god. Why? Oh god.
    But you still unified the team and led them halfway, so ... neutral job overall i guess.

    RD: Inspector 1. A main key for getting the Heroes to unify early, and frankly the "separated part" didn't really matter at all, what with DLE screaming "IT"S ELEMENTARY HOLMES HONESTLY" on page 1.

    Why: see previous user.

    Comments: Apart from the fact that he missed that part in page 1 in the first place lol. DLE had to sacrifice his first night action to inspect himself, but other then that, he survived till the end of the game, and was targeted by many roles for reasons like "he's not being his normal self, i wonder why", so good job being the focus fire i guess.

    RD: Inspector 2. If Holmes died first he will turn into full inspector.

    Why: Again, see previous user XD

    Comments: Screamed out "it's elementary" on page 1, then followed up with an inspection on himself. He tried leading the team, but was instead shot down. Still, good job in the half-unification on the team.

    Overall: this team had the most idlers. The last night all three Billy, Rey and Exarius didn't send in their PMs. Although they weren't really useful anyway by that time.

    Heroes are done, let's move on.

    RD: Anonymous Messenger / Stealth Voter. He could simply put conditions like... let me get that PM...
    wormbot (open)
    I want to have this posted 1 second before the deadline:

    Lynch user

    except replace 'user' with whoever The Queen of Hearts votes. If The Queen of Hearts does not vote, then replace 'user' with blue_light.
    . This was meant to give the Unknowns a way to message people without exposing themselves, but alas it wasn't needed in this game. It was paired up with Jumpluff for a couple of reasons.

    1: I expected this role to be aimed early, due to being Earthworm, so it needed a BG.
    2: If Veedrock targeted Earthworm, there would be no side-effect as Earth didn't have a night action anyway.
    3: Therefore, Veed wouldn't even be able to find out his side-effect.

    Why? Earthworm = Earthworm. Need i even say more ><.

    Comments: Earthworm was the second half of the brains of the team, along with Bass. He led his team nicely, but alas he failed at the end of it by forgetting to tell Flounder to kill instead of hooked. That changed the entire game (along with Billy's final stealth).

    RD: A Bodyguard that hooked together. It could be used for the attack or the defense, but not both. I kinda like this concept.P.s: i forgot to put win condition XD.

    Why: Lol jumpluff didn't get it, so we went with Veed instead. He worked pretty well with Earthworm, so we didn't expect troubles.

    Comments: Lol. He should get an award. N0/N1 he protected Earthworm/Lonelyness, who were both targeted by RBG. If it wasn't for his efforts the Unknowns would have started the game with two down. Good job overall!

    Veedrock (open)
    <&Veedrock> The first post says neutrals but then again we can't trust anything Amelia/Gmax say

    <&Veedrock> Does this mean I can't win

    RD: I really wanted to see if anyone broke this rule. This was pretty much the kicker for the persuasion... "i can either follow the persuasion or break it... and follow it anyway!". Unfortunately, no one broke it, so it was used as a simple persuade.

    Why?: Thorns worked well with Bass, as we said. He was badly needed in a team which would be full of conflicting ideas from different people, especially since they were united.

    Comments: Just followed orders, so good i guess.

    RD: The other side of the Vigilante. This one got kills due to mis-lynches, but only killed during the night. Easier to get, but harder to use. (We didn't forsee how hard).

    Why: Accent was a perfect enemy to Dak XD. We thought he would like the chance to kill off people who angered him lately.

    Comments: Unfortunately, he was inspected early, and combined with him getting his kills late, he didn't get a single kill off. This was costly, and probably cost them the game. Not his fault though i guess.

    RD: Bodyguard/Silencer. If he ever posted "have a nice day" he would know what it does XD. This again could be used on the offensive or defensive, and caused some critical thinking among the unknowns.

    Why: Bass had charge of this role, since he was a big name target as well. He spent his early days targeting himself or other unknowns, saving them.

    Comments: Bass was the other half of the brains of the team, almost leading the unknowns to victory. Although they lost in the end, the blame didn't go to him, but to the game host i guess. However, if they killed Fishin early they would have won this game easily.

    RD: Pseudo inspector, who will turn into full inspector upon unification of the team. This was meant to help unite the team, since role name actually meant "faction" in this game.

    Why: Given the fact that Agape/Altair worked well together in Pokemafia, we placed them together again. It was hoped that Agape would inspect Altair N0 and thus be united, but in the end it probably didn't matter, given their speed.

    Comments: Agape was the sole factor missing from LN's sheriff unification, although it would make no difference as LN was outnumbered anyway. Other then that, he got useless once the game got on, apart from being one vote.

    RD: Sheriff/Champion. This was a good way to eliminate the fact that Sheriffs will get useless as times goes on, and thus if the team is united he becomes a champion instead. Works like Duskull in PokeMafia, but the power given at the end was different.

    Why: LN is known to be outspoken, calling for claims, unifying the team. Dak already had the Heroes part, so he got the part of the Unknown. He did a good job too, actually uniting the Unknowns before he died.

    Comments: However, he tried in vain to get a vote to succeed, and because of the backfire, he died. Whoops.

    RD: The powerful. This was the trumpcard of the Unknowns, except he was demolished by Hookers. Oops.

    Why: Altair seemed good for this. Not a big name, won't be aimed or inspected early, and yet smart enough to do his own decisions.

    Comments: Hookers, i'm sorry T_T. Altair however helped in unifying the team after inheriting LN's power, which he then turned into a mayor to swing a few key votes.

    The mafias will come out in the next post >< I need a rest before i start this again.
  3. Amelia


    May 18, 2006
    Ok, last part of the postgame coming up!

    So we have talked about the villages. Let us move on, towards the mafias.

    The Mad Evil Geniuses

    The team's killing ability. When they have 4, they need to use 2 people to kill. When they have 1, their kill becomes unhookable (because technically no one is killing but they are killing anyway). This was the worst kill early game, and yet, it was the only kill that succeeded. Go figure.

    RD: This was an instrumental part in the Geniuses. This gave them what they lacked, or rather an extra boost in all the departments, day power (persuasion), night power (hook), and information (inspection). Apart from the fact that it was mostly copied from Earthworm :P, i felt that refreshing your powers was quite an original power.

    Why: Flounder was in this team so that he would send in PMs on time :P This was ultimately solved by Mekkah sending in a huge PM outlining the entire team's actions and the reasonings, which saved me a lot of work. Flounder also helped in the discussions, and overall, he played a good game.

    Comments: Doing what he needed to do on time. Flounder saved most of his abilities apart from the critical moments. Most of the times he was being used to kill, which was a smart decision.

    RD: Robot creation was insane. Unfortunately this role was never used due to the fact that Mekkah was kidnapped early, then died before he even created two robots, but this could help them win a key lynch (or maybe even 2). If anyone wants to use this role for their own mafia, go ahead, this role has surprising potential.

    Why: Mekkah was the brains of this team, and i figured that since he's the brains he might as well get Dr.Robotnik. It's not hard to imagine Mekkah as Dr.Robotnik planning something evil behind the scenes.

    Comments: Mekkah never stopped leading the team until he died. Even when he was in Doraemon's pocket he somehow led the team to huge heights. He led the Geniuses to an extremely powerful position. Good job.

    RD: Standard BG... with something extra. And oh god, that something extra was insane. A huge lynch fuck, which almost took the heroes out of the game.

    Why: blue_light made this role for his quarantine Mafia. I simply made it more powerful and gave it back to him. XD

    Comments: That was an insane objection. Took out Jackal's hook and BPV, and slaughtered two heroes to boot. However, protection yourself late game wasn't a good decision. Flounder should have been allowed to do his hook/persuade while you do the killing instead. You would actually have won the game this way.

    RD: Absorber, in the geniuses. He could have absorbed Flounder and gotten the TV. He could have absorbed Mekkah and started a Robot spam... instead...

    Why: Lightwolf just fit somehow. He caused the lost of his faction in DBZ, so let's remind him with a DBZ character XD

    Comments: Why did you absorb shade...... urgh. If you had absorbed Mekkah n0 he wouldn't have been inspected and pocketed and you would have robot spam and...
    instead you got a hook which only served to slow the entire game down.
    Not to mention throwing Cell Jr.s at people.

    Well, that's it for the Evil Geniuses. The loss of Mekkah due to a kidnap hurt them badly, while Lightwolf absorbing Shade was just weedy. P.s: Coincidences.

    Shade hooked Mekkah
    Lightwolf absorbed Shade.
    Unclesam pocketed Mekkah.
    All this, on the same day. Wow.

    The Really Boring Criminals

    Lol i made a screwup with the flavour and placed boring here as well. Oops. Anyway, here we go. I'll leave Jimbo for last, that post is long.

    RD: Lol Godfather. If the attack fails the BG would have been silenced. Maybe i should have specified it otherwise.

    Why: Ag as the killer so that he won't go do anything stupid. Yeah, i can dream, right?

    Comments: Great stunt AG. And you were the main reason why the game slowed down in the first place with those 2 idle kills. Lol. But well, i hope you learned from this.

    RD: MY BAD MY BAD I"M SORRY. Firstly, the lynchproof didn't redirect it, it just stopped the lynch. I'm sorry.
    Secondly, it should be written as "This ability can be countered by something else". Oops. Anyway, the Hypnotoad had the strongest priority, which meant that he was basically... unstoppable.

    Why: Fishin was here... to help Evan and Jimbo. Needless to say, now we know that didn't work so well.

    Comments: Well... this was the person who won but didn't deserve it at all. A failed lynch at a wrong person, idles... and yet he was one of the last ones standings and eventually won >< wow.

    RD: standard inspector. He was the first to get the kill from AG, if Jimbo died he would get BG (can't use on himself), if Fishin died he would get Lynchproof (works once). In theory with the defensive capabilities of the Criminals.

    Why: Evan was the strong player of the Criminals, so he got the back-up guy. Targeting him early would be no use since he would be protected, lynching him late wouldn't work.

    Comments: Evan was the brains of the team for the first half of the game, as we expected. It still wasn't a good job, but compared to the rest of the team, Evan and Jimbo did nice.

    RD: Lol at this role. Too bad he never got a single power, but even getting Silencer would have been a good edge. Getting up to King Zilla would have been crazy!

    Why: Jimbo... as the huge whale. First role we even decided, before we even settled the big 5. Lol.

    Comments: Jimbo played well, as the brains of the team. However, he never got killed, which slightly demolished his potential. On hindsight, this was a bit too much, but imagine if someone got that far!

    So these are the lineup of the criminals. The unlikely winners, we actually marked them as lost since AG died. Wow, wonders.

    The Monsters from Several Different Dimensions

    Oh well, next. Monsters. A lot i have to talk about them.

    This was the team we found it hardest to balance. They killed lesser then the rest, which made it easier. So we decided to give them an all or nothing strategy.

    RD: The main design of the monsters. If they succeeded with Doraemon, all well and good. If they failed... they would have to do everything over again.

    Why: Unclesam. The other 3 were known and big names (Jackal, Cyzir, Dub), and i didn't expect Unclesam to be found early, which would mean they could run to a quick victory. Of course, this being mafia and all...

    Comments: A lot of failed kidnaps. Unfortunately, this was the downfall of the Monsters early-game. 3 failed kidnaps... (along with AG's idles) if all of them worked you guys might have well won.

    RD: A hooker that will turn into a killer. I decided to go with pokemon theme seeing as we just finished Pokemon Mafia. BPV/Lynchproof to give the monsters some protection.

    Why: Jackal = a big name. Big names = Targetted early. Thus, BPV/LPV are needed to keep him alive.

    Comments : Great game. It wasn't your fault that you guys lost, in my opinion the Monsters played really well, far better then the other teams (apart from the Geniuses... kinda even there).

    RD: A BG or Hook that could be used as situation allows. Later on, he will always get to BG when needed (or hook when needed).

    Why: Dubulous was here, and seeing as the rest were big names or new, they needed a stable guy to keep them protected.

    Comments: Quite good. Like i said the monsters did nicely, and they should not have lost in my opinion.

    RD: A mass inspector to help them find their targets. Cyzir called it a nerfed inspector, but in my opinion all they needed to do is to find their targets. Who cares what goes inside Doraemon's pocket, as long as it's a target :P

    Why: Cyzir worked pretty well with Jackal, and this mafia would bring both their wits to the test. I'm sorry that things didn't go well for you guys, we (me and gmax) were rooting for you.

    Comments: He almost succeeded in victory. Sigh. Played a really good game, but was backstabbed due to no reason (according to his words lol) and lost due to that.

    The monsters. Either a quick early victory, or a kingmaker. They nearly succeeded too.

    Finally... the WOLF.

    RD: How to put a wolf into this mafia with funny win conditions? This was the answer. Kills off people, and yet is hard to win. However, i should have placed it as "you lose if you eliminate a total of 2 people" instead of 3, from the same faction, as otherwise he might be used by other teams.

    Why: RBG has not played as a wolf before, and he's not a big name either, but competent in his own right.

    Comments: And first lesson as a wolf: DO NOT AIM BIG NAMES. RBG aimed Earthworm, who was protected by Veed, N0. Then he aimed LN, who was also protected by Veed, N1. Finally, he aimed Lightwolf, who was protected by BL, N2. And just after his protection ran out, he was sniped and eliminated by the Geniuses. Whoops.



    Best/Second Best team: The Monsters from Several Different Dimensions or The Mad Evil Geniuses.

    Hard to say actually...i really can't judge which was better. Both of them did really well considering the situation, and both of them really thought out situations harder then any other mafias before.

    Worst team: Heroes.

    The only good people from there were Billy, Eo, and Shade. Dak couldn't do much as he was eliminated early.The rest... erm. What were you all doing?

    Best Genius: Mekkah/lightwolf/flounder/blue_light. Lol, they planned everything together and decided on everything together, they all did equally well. Perfect team.

    Best Criminal: ...Jimbo/Evan. Considering the rest of your team... But nice work in the end.

    Best Monster: Jackal/Cyzir. The amount of time you guys spent for this game was crazy, so i'm sorry that the conclusion was so horrible. I apologize.

    Best Hero: Shade. The fact that Billy caused the death of Shade due to an idle PM (and not voting) meant that this award went to Shade. However, Billy did a good job in the end for stealth lynching that crazy vote (with 3 seconds left on the clock, crazy).

    Best Unknown: Bass. He was planning everything from start to finish, without him the Unknowns would have been screwed. Even Earthworm was agreeing with his plans and diplomacy.

    Best Player: N/A. I can't even judge this myself.

    Worst Player:.... too many to list! Honorable mentions to Askaninjask, Aura_guardian, Exarius, Fishin.

    Best Move: Billy's final stealth vote. Complete seal of the game.

    Worse Move: Lightwolf not absorbing Mekkah. Resulted to Mekkah being inspected, then pocketed.

    Best Luck: Fishin. Winning due to the actions of Billy? Woah.

    Worse Luck: RBG/Mekkah/Unclesam. RBG because all of his targets were Protected, Mekkah because he disappeared N1 lol, Unclesam, because he kept hitting wrongly.

    Mekkah (open)
    <&Mekkah> do i get info on my release date yet
    <@Amelia> no
    <@Amelia> you won't know your release date
    <@Amelia> till you are released
    <&Mekkah> i see
    <&Mekkah> it would be very disruptive if i was kept imprisoned for another night

    Ok, that's all folks! Hope you had a fun time reading this!

    And to end it all...
  4. Mekkah

    is a Super Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
    Super Moderator

    Feb 8, 2005
    so am i released now?

    so yeah


    this is for the monsters kidnapping me n1


    this is for shade for hooking me


    and this is for the monsters killing me


    this is for lw the best team mate ever :)
  5. Aura Guardian

    Aura Guardian

    Dec 25, 2009
    Just some notes: I sent in a change of plans, not idling N1 (can't remember who)
    Also, RBG targeting LN was at my order.

    Don't have enough time to comment a lot, though.
  6. Bass

    Bass Brother in arms
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 25, 2007
    I pretty much agree with the postgame you have written here. I really thought that the heroes and the criminals didn't deserve the win (apart from billymills who brilliantly exploited a loophole in his role and even managed to out stealth us), but I will still go ahead and state that the geniuses' grievous decision to continue protecting blue_light instead of having Flounder hook Fishin was what cost the game for us. That said, the Monsters may have had it worse.

    I guess I can comment a little about my play. Unsurprisingly when the game started, LonelyNess was once again asking for claims. He happened to be my ally, so I gladly jumped in as it was difficult for me to doubt that Blue Kirby was an ally of Hipmonlee. After that, we pretty much did most of the planning together and confirmed almost everyone except for Agape (I didn't trust EARTHWORM at first but he and Veed proved their roles very quickly). However, with dak's death and unfortunate failure for Agape to communicate with us in time, our faction was considered the strongest and thus poor LN found himself being ganged up on. I am going to argue now that this was probably the most crucial lynch in the game, not because LonelyNess had such a powerful role but rather because this is when the Monsters made a very long lasting alliance with the heroes, leaving us heavily outnumbered during the following lynches despite being the largest faction.

    From that point on I took the helm with EARTHWORM being a close adviser. Of course, I haven't played a leading role in a while, so my strategy was to gather information about the other factions as ruthlessly as possible, and then using that information to exchange for more information (like Izaya Orihara in DRRR). Thanks to simply talking to everyone, we very quickly deduced everyone's alliance as well as their primary roles, although despite having an advantage in being informed, we were stalled for a variety of reasons.

    The biggest reason was probably the Monsters, who had very apparently made an alliance with the heroes. Of course, UncleSam claimed that he would be willing to win with us but I never trusted him completely, and likewise, the Monsters, while supposedly backstabbing us, weren't really doing anything wrong as they were just trying to win like everyone else. Even so, I tried to strike deals with them whenever I could, including trying to get rid of Fishin (though unfortunately due to the state of the game they were more interested in getting rid of the geniuses) Of course, when it finally came down to it, the rift between us would become too great. My paranoia snapped and I pretty much verbally abused Jackal at one point because of mutual distrust. My behavior was irrational and unfortunately it may give me a reputation that will take time to reverse. I have done this already, but again I deeply regret this. It was then that I was thankful that EARTHWORM was on my team, as he was able to continue the negotiations while I was driven to insanity.

    The geniuses were also somewhat tricky, at first. They didn't really seem to bother with collaborating with us until they realized how dire their situation would become, which in turn lead to the very nicely played (though looking at it now could have been even better) Objection! After the rocky start though we were mostly best buds and they were extremely helpful in the following lynches, though it will still be difficult for me to get over the fact that their choice not to hook Fishin cost us the game. It's a shame Mekkah was so unlucky, though.

    And finally, a few other highlights for me:

    -I thought evan was the one singlehandedly causing my team's downfall, inspecting Accent, Altair, and Thorns. However, it was none other than reyscarface who ended up doing this. Good god, what a lucky set of inspections!

    -The "hunt" for Unknwons:

    Show Hide
    06[13:27] <Forte> am i your only contact so far
    [13:27] <LonelyNess> yeah, I'll go out hounding people in a bit
    [13:27] <LonelyNess> I'll let people come to me for a few hours first
    [13:28] <LonelyNess> before I start the hunt
    06[13:28] <Forte> how are you going to hunt though
    06[13:28] <Forte> are you going to go through the player list
    06[13:28] <Forte> and ask "ARE YOU WITH US OR AGAINST US"
    [13:28] <LonelyNess> pretty much
    [13:28] <LonelyNess> I may use that exact line too

    -Flounder was pretty hilarious to talk to at times. Particularly when he proposed the Objection in a ridiculous stunt EDIT FUCK I AM DUMB, LIGHTWOLF HAS CAUGHT ME IN HIS TRAP.

    Flounder (open)
    06[14:10] <Forte> By the way Eo made a new post in the game thread
    06[14:10] <Forte> You should read it.
    [14:10] <GeniusIncorporated> INTERESTING
    [14:11] <GeniusIncorporated> CAN WE GET BACK TO THINGS THAT ACTUALLY MATTER?
    06[14:11] <Forte> oh wait
    [14:11] <GeniusIncorporated> YOU WANT ME TO OUT MYSELF
    06[14:11] <Forte> so did Jackal
    [14:11] <GeniusIncorporated> OKAY HE DID
    [14:12] <GeniusIncorporated> BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT MATTERS NOW
    06[14:12] <Forte> read it.
    [14:12] <GeniusIncorporated> SO YEAH
    06[14:12] <Forte> No
    [14:12] <GeniusIncorporated> AND YOU OFFER NOTHING
    06[14:12] <Forte> I want to talk to someone that isnt such a coward.
    06[14:12] <Forte> If that means talking to your teammates instead
    06[14:12] <Forte> Then arrange it
    06[14:12] <Forte> Or we are done.
    [14:13] <GeniusIncorporated> OKAY THEN
    06[14:13] <Forte> By the way then
    06[14:13] <Forte> You should be more careful, Flounder.
    [14:14] <GeniusIncorporated> aww
    [14:14] <GeniusIncorporated> I'M FUCKED NOW
    [14:14] <GeniusIncorporated> SUCKS
    [14:14] <GeniusIncorporated> OH WELL

    -Amelia mentioned this but Exarius having a very sketchy neutral claim. Of course once RBG came forward, the numbers made me very suspicious of you and I was right. Nevertheless, I continued to pretend to believe that you were neutral, even going so far as to tell the other factions this because I didn't want you to have a reason to vote against us in the following crucial lynches. Though maybe you wouldn't have anyway due to your apparent laziness.

    -RBG for trying to randkill two of my teammates even when they were protected. When I found you I planned t collaborate with you, but unfortunately you were killed right away. Maybe if the geniuses contacted me earlier, we could have properly manipulated you! Oh well.

    -And most of all, my teammates. I couldn't have been happier to be alongside EARTHWORM and LonelyNess. Considering how disorganized the heroes played, I am very glad that you guys remained reliable to the end.

    Overall, despite my constant complaints (mainly about Fishin being pretty much unstoppable due to the way the priority system was set up), I thoroughly enjoyed the concept of this game. I have been angered over a lot of things this game but in the end, despite not winning, I am actually not too disappointed because I had a lot of fun! Easily the first regular sized mafia I had so much interest in for a while. Oh, and just for good measure...

    fuk veed
  7. blue_light


    Jan 19, 2006
    I don't think that was Flounder...
  8. Bass

    Bass Brother in arms
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 25, 2007
    he admitted it though, unless my memory is wrong
  9. Da Letter El

    Da Letter El Officially internet famous
    is a Forum Moderator

    Mar 28, 2008
    wait...we won?!?! how the hell did that happen? Awesoooooome

    But yeah, I was hoping my partner in crime would notice the fact that I posted ELEMENTARY MY DEAR in all caps (i think that the "y" wasn't capitalized, but still). Since I wasn't contacted, since I knew that my partner would get my results as well, I inspected myself so that we would get in contact. The next night I tried to check shade, but he was kidnapped. And then I found Obi. And then I got stealthed :(
  10. Eo Ut Mortus

    Eo Ut Mortus Elodin Smells
    is a Tournament Directoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Jun 3, 2007
    This game was pretty frustrating. It was really more negotiation than anything. I thought outing myself as a "GIGANTIC METEOR" early would be a good way to unite, seeing as shade didn't appear to be coming back for awhile, and nobody else was attempting to unite the Heroes. I figured that I wouldn't have much of a chance to use my power with the way it was activated (if I did, we'd likely be losing at that point). I've been told that killing Aura Guardian was pretty dumb, and I don't really disagree, but I didn't see what else I could do at that point. I could've switched the kill, but I would have immediately revealed myself as vigilante. I probably should have been more patient and waited for LN to post or something. I would've preferred LN dead by my hand than lynched over what actually happened. Even though it didn't really make an actual difference other than perception-wise.

    Exposing myself made it extremely easy to find out who our enemies were, and we filled our spreadsheet with most people's correct alliance rather quickly. However, I really messed up in regards to not immediately trusting billymills and selling him out, and I apologize for that. It was a boneheaded move, and I'm glad you eventually got the win for us.

    The Objection was pretty ridiculous, and it really left us disorganized. After it occurred, I was pretty intent on trying to gain the support of both the Criminals and Monsters to counter the seeming threat of the Genius-Unknowns alliance. The way I saw it, we needed to maintain a three faction alliance in order to stand a chance against the two arguably stronger alliances. I tried to keep the Criminals from killing the Monsters with the promise that the Monsters would not target them, and if they did, they could be easily handled through lynching later in the game; however, the Criminals made the first stab, and it all went downhill from there. I don't think there was any way to avoid that; the Criminals saw us as a kingmaker who could easily win with the Monsters over them. I was hoping to prolong the crossfire until it wouldn't matter (to us), though. After UncleSam was lynched, I was more than willing to win with the Monsters, and after the failed lynch on Fishin, the Criminals were all but forced to work with us. I don't know whether it was just failed negotiating or just the Monsters' plan from the start, but we got backstabbed again.

    Overall, I agree that the Monsters probably deserved the win, but I guess that's how things fall into place. While all the negotiating was tiresome, I really enjoyed the concept; thanks Amelia and Gmax for hosting!

    P.S. Bass, aka

    [INFO] Query view for ``Supercalifragilisticexpialidoc'' opened.
    === Supercalifragilisticexpialidoc <hi@none.of.your.business> ``aaa''
    === Supercalifragilisticexpialidoc is a registered nick
    === Supercalifragilisticexpialidoc: attached to zero.dk.eu.synirc.net ``what''
    --- End of WHOIS information for Supercalifragilisticexpialidoc.

    Mask that post-vhost message next time. :p
  11. Bass

    Bass Brother in arms
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 25, 2007
    Yeah, mIRC wouldn't let me change that (or I couldn't figure out how) but I was mostly doing that to troll anyway.
  12. Exarius


    Aug 7, 2009
    First of all...
    This was uncalled for, though it is true. I went to bed 5 AM my time, the lynchers started 7 AM. I woke 5 PM, and didn't get time to come online before 6:30 PM, when the game was already called. And I can't miraculously read PMs and write in the thread while being asleep, with computer turned off, you know... I do agree I played pretty bad the other stuff, though. Maybe I should just keep on the hosting part from now on...

    Moving on
    The neutral stuff I gave to LN and Bass, and that you mentioned: That was done on the spot :p I hadn't even planned on anything like that, I just reacted on how stuff came onwards.

    Orignally, I was only sitting there, thinking how this is gonna go. Nobody had started uniting our faction, and I though I shouldn't, since I have very little experience at mafias generally. Then suddenly LN jumps forth...

    Halp (open)
    [19:41] <LonelyNess> ARE YOU WITH ME OR ARE YOU AGAINST ME!? (We don't need no mafia)
    [19:41] <Exarius> erm
    [19:41] <Exarius> let me check the thread
    [19:42] <Exarius> don't remember of the bat what you have said there
    [19:44] <Exarius> alright
    [19:45] <Exarius> don't think I have no beef with you right now
    [19:46] <LonelyNess> Does that mean we merely have no beef with each other
    [19:46] <LonelyNess> or that we are factionally alligned?
    [19:46] <Exarius> merely no beef with each other
    [19:47] <LonelyNess> Alright

    I practically panicked when he suddenly came and asked that, since I remembered from the thread he was Unknown, and I was Heroes. At that point I thought I shouldn't make myself an enemy of his yet, since he has a reputation in mafia, so I said I had no beef with him. On hindsight I shouldn't have done that.

    And so, nobody uniting us yet... I didn't exactly believe Eo and shade when both were asking for Heroes claims, remembering back to MGS with all the fake FOXHOUNDs asking for claims (coughAltaircoughEocough). Thus I worked a bit with LN then, fully knowing I was digging a deeper and deeper hole for myself. But by the time when LN asked me to lynch DLE, I got myself in contact with Eo. From there on, every time Bass talked with me, I talked with Eo at the same time (which wouldn't surprise me if he hates me for by now...). But by N4 or N5 we were both already aware that I was most likely outed, so I stopped just about all contact with Bass.

    And from there, I was pretty much following orders... First from Eo, then from Billy, nothing extremely big. And it was not like I had any other choice, I had just about no idea who they were talking with, and I would have fucked up even worse if I would have tried to do more contact myself.

    The Inactivity
    What Bass referred to was what I mentioned earlier, we were aware that I was pretty much outed already. Also, It didn't help that I had exams during N5-N7 or something, which I did mention to Eo, Bass and Amelia. And when I launched my own game (Fuck the Mafia), I started to concentrate on that mostly, since I was already just following orders from there. I did send in a PM every night though, except for the last one, which I said.

    I found this game interesting, and the early game with LN and Bass was one of the funniest stuff I have had in mafia (only behind leading the village in blindness, where I followed what Bass had done), even when it was quite stressing, trying to keep the mask on (badly). But I think I will stop with mafias mostly for now, just keep on hosting, since at least for me this game proved how much I suck in it :P
  13. Jackal

    Jackal I'm not retarded I'm Canadian it's different
    is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Dec 20, 2004
    first off thank you to amelia/gmax for running a new and interesting game concept. I really never believed in small games but this game here gave me hope, I really enjoyed it.

    I believe the monsters were really a kingmaker from the getgo... from the minute the game started we had the target on our back of "they have the easiest win" and for this reason everyone always had to be wary of what we were up to. For this reason also, neither the heroes or unknown could really make us their number 1 ally, since it was so easy for us to backstab and not face too much repercussions.

    I realized this early on and I did my best to stick to only one side, making it clear I had no interest at all in working with the Unknown and trying to prove to the Heroes I was with them 100% I did this because i knew playing both sides wouldnt work.

    However, I knew from about n2 that this game would go a long ass time, as no team was dumb enough to let any other team get too close to winning. For this reason I proclaimed to my team that UncleSam had exactly a 0% chance of surviving the game, which was true. We needed him dead ASAP so we could look weak and start gaining real kills, not pussy kills.

    I also realized that lynching unknowns was potentially helping my cause because my original intention was to make them so weak that no one would touch them, and then at that point take the win with them if it was there. This almost happened as we collaborated in #monstersandunknowns but I made one key error... We agreed to silence jimbo and persuade fishin, but I thought it was the reverse.

    This was the night where I spent almost 4 hours deciding who to kill, going over every possible scenario with cyzir. I guess I got so tired that I reversed in my head the actions I told bass, but I ultimately decided I needed to kill a Criminal. Too bad I thought fishin was the one being protected/silenced by bass so i tried to kill Jimbo...oops. The best part was after that kill didnt go through I immediately PMed him on irc informing him he needed to protect me next night 8) I am not sure if he did or not, but I think he might have

    With all the scenarios we played out that night, we had a guarunteed win in about half of them, but it just didnt work out. If a criminal had died that night, it would have been a pretty easy win for us and the heros. Also if shade hooked the right genius and prevented Eo's death, I feel we also could have won with the Heroes. I was never down for winning with the Unknown with Altair alive as he was way too strong, so I was only gonna consider them if Altair died.

    I also feel like if I didn't get subbed out for that week I would have made some different decisions than Dub, aka not blow that lynch lol, and that may have changed the game but we will never know!

    I also want to congratulate billymills for countering our stealth with 3 seconds to spare, that was quite pro. I also want to say fuck you to billymills for betraying the monsters for no reason, even though it was smart for him to.

    In terms of the actual game design, I already expressed my opinion that my team was disadvantaged as hell from the start, but I am not sure I blame Amelia, and the fact that we did have some chances to win if I did play perfectly means it was still a damn good game. The one thing I would have changed was make Fishin unable to hook and kill once he got the kill, because that is ridiculous that he could do that. I had no chance at convincing billy to win with me when Fishin was that strong.

    Closing remarks: I look forward to playing in more EXPERT games and bass was not lying when he says he was verbally abusing me. I felt like crying in a corner and/or banning him. He was so paranoid he wanted me to copy/paste everything that was said between me and Eo 15 seconds or less from the time it was said or he would accuse me of being a liar and traitor. lol.

    And the comment about thinking more than apoc is very true... that one night where I decided to kill Jimbo was seriously fucked... 4 hours of me and cyzir going over everything with amelia and gmax just laughing at us :(

    last but not least, (BAN ME PLEASE) say word I still have not died in a mafia since Frieza in DBZ mafia, about 18 months ago. Niggers think you can kill Jackal? think again

  14. evan

    evan I did my best -- I have no regrets
    is a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Apr 30, 2005
    i guess it is my turn to speak up for the boring criminals. as i was not much for communication between the factions this game i am sure that i am missing out on quite a bit tha jimbo or ag or fishin (lol) can fill in. I will merely give my view of the game, starting at the beginning.

    I was quite pleased with my team which had (apparently!) been tailored to me. I have found all three of my mebmers to be apt players in the past with Aura_guardian being the one with the least amount of experience (obviously). Fortunately, he was (and is) quite eager to play the game and I think will become a really great player some time down the line. Jimbo was the star of the team. After AG's death he was involved in almost all communication between our faction and everyone else while also strategising with me in our channel (#toads). Fishin... well, Fishin could have done better. I don't know that I spoke to him more than twice about the state of the game the entire time. It was unfortunate but that is what happened. He did send his PMs in and (usually) voted so I can't complain too much.

    I don't care for being inspector in general, but I ran with it. Night 0, I believe, I hit RB-Golbat, then UncleSam Night 1 and Veedrock Night 2. This was the sum total of all of my inspections as once AG died, I never got another one off (being forced to choose between inspection or kill).

    AG's death really enraged me and soured relations between the Criminals and the Heroes. I still see no reason for Eo to have killed AG without approaching him (as far as I am aware). Yes, the Uxie thing could be annoying, but still. Totally unnecessary and it left us both in a weaker position as i never fully trusted the Heroes and believe they would stab us to win with the Monsters as soon as they could stop leading us around. This, ultimately, lead to the Criminals siding with the Geniuses and Unknowns to lynch off UncleSam (the move that "gave away the game to genius/unknown alliance").

    Overall, AG's death didn't really hurt us all that much. Because AG was only a killer (and I assumed that I would receive his kill after his death and didn't see inspector as a neccessity) his death only served to make us look weaker without the faction losing much of anything. In fact, the smaller we got as a faction, I felt we became stronger. I should also note that this is why I had no objections to "Uxie." Losing AG wouldn't hurt us terribly and, if it did work, could help us lynch or kill some enemies (by means of RBG).

    Anyway, with our killer down, we began to focus on the Unknowns. The Heroes told us about their alliance with the Monsters and the tenuous 'protection' we enjoyed because of it. From the Heroes we also received information about Accent and Altair which was exceedingly useful. Things were going very well until the use of OBJECTION which really stunned me. I began to worry about the effectiveness of the Heroes as an allied team which added another reason to turn on the Monsters and help out the Geniuses who could ally with us.

    After Doraemon was dead we ran into a string of poor luck attacking the Unknowns mostly ending up trapped in #warau (OH NO). During this time geniuses continued to die which put us (reluctantly) back on the side of the Heroes.

    Then I died and the team reconfigured into what I think was our most effective and best combination (it could only have been better had fishin received the kill before Jimbo). With just the two of them, Jimbo and Fishin could render our team immune to night kills by bodyguarding Fishin and then Roguing the Monsters while Fishin hooked Accent. We figured that Geniuses and Heroes had no reason to waste their kills on a potential ally which would leave us mostly free to go about our business. This was aided even more by the death of Dubulous which reduced enemy hookers to one (again, we felt geniuses and heroes would not want to hook us over one of their actual enemies) with lower priority than Shade and Fishin. Further, Fishin had a lynch protection (which i would have raged had it been activated and i was told I didn't get to choose a target to kill).

    At this point I really thought we were in a strong position to win the game alongside the Heroes. Even though Shade died, since Accent was also felled in the night Altair was the only one we had to worry about on the Unknowns' side while Jimbo could continue to rogue the Monsters. Around this time there were a couple of lynches where I had no idea what was going on (the first, Altair and Jimbo tie the second the Jimbo lynch) so I will hopefully get someone else to fill in there. The death of Jimbo should have been the end of our team. He was very much crucial to us surviving. Here on out I have no idea what happened since i considered us dead.

    Congrats to Fishin for surviving I suppose! This is all kind of disjointed since I am also making dinner and I don't know a lot of what happened.

    Summary: I liked my team, I didn't trust the Heroes or the Monsters AT ALL, that fence sitting probably made us much weaker than we could have been, our team got better the smaller we got, and we won!
  15. LightWolf

    LightWolf lightwoof
    is a Forum Moderator

    Jul 26, 2008
    You still believe that was flounder lol? Flounder just checked the thread because me and Mekkah were laughing at your failed attempt. Also the objection stunt was in no way more ridiculous than any stealth lynch for that matter, especially with the ability to just edit older post with the new lynch vote(hey look it worked!). Had that plan gone through, we'd been able to kill of the majority of monsters criminals and heroes in one hit, it's funny how you call me a coward in a log, when you were acting like one right there lol.

    As for the game? It was great, it was fun, can't wait for the next one. When I saw our members I was really happy, I had worked with Mekkah few times already, though back then I only did grunt work mostly. Flounder I knew from Viva, and b_l through his mafias.

    While Amelia says that not kidnapping Mekkah was a mistake, but on a long run, the hooker role could have proven very useful(btw who killed me? Half of the flavour fits for jackal, but the other half doesn't) and the main thing is, not absorbing changed the game to our favour even! It allowed us to kill dak, which basically changed so many thing upside down... Maybe on a long run the robots would have won us the lynch, but I doubt both of us would have lived till that.

    Also you can kinda blame yourself for the last night Unknown, you should have known that if the person you tell the orders doesn't reply he is AFK... You should have sent us, especially Flounder a PM over smogon, then things might have changed. And seriously, we couldn't really come up with that plan on our own, because you kept us in the dark about the your exact roles(we only ever got one inspect, which was pretty useless even), from our point of view, you claimed to have a hooker who can chain hook, so we assumed YOU'd be hooking Fishin to stop the kill, we on the other hand were hoping to gain a self-protecting unhookable killer, turns out Flounder would become one too...(perma BPV as long he keeps watching TV unhookable), but that we couldn't know. I also still stick to the fact that instead of persuading Flounder should have killed cyzir the night before, since that'd have the same result, +1 for us -1 for them against a -2 for them, exact same on the voting spectrum, but we'd have also gained the chance to kill Fishin the next night, with our kill out priotising his, but alas it was too late to change(Flounder never informed us about it) and I didn't want to get on your bad side so close to the ending either, but had this gotten to us, we'd have sent flounder to talk to you guys about this plan again.

    What mainly seems to be the problem, was the lack of communication on the last two nights, we didn't reach you then next you didn't reach us, losing a chance to win both times. Tbh your strategy(speaking of DRRR, I liked your Shizou avatar...) basically caused a big dislike against your team from us, we seriously considered just keeping the game so that we can jump on you and win with the criminals, but then you died, and EW was much easier to reason with so we forgot about any plans like that. While it is generally good for gaining info, without giving out shit about your own team, it will only make your job of allying much harder(there was no night when I didn't tell flounder or b_l, that they go get your orders, then ignore them and kill/do x instead, unless it seemed fair from our point of view that is.)

    According to our dear hosts, our channel was the most interesting and active one, I can blame that on Mekkah's and my timezone being so close that it's the same.

    Role wise I liked our team, we had everything we'd ever need! Problem was what? We couldn't get so many combinations at the same time, that it was frustrating at times to choose which one will be the best for that night(see n0, dak was just a way too good kill, to go with plan building like rabbits), then again, that problem mainly came from the kidnap on mekkah... Kidnapped people should be considered dead, if they are basically told that they can't talk to anyone about the game bar mafia team mates for strategic talk(hey aren't those the dead rules???)

    May sound like a rand, but I actually enjoyed all of those things, some of that may have been frustrating, but that defines a fun game to me(that or overpowered shit everywhere), I don't enjoy boring games, as much I bashed you bass, I enjoyed playing against and with you, I may not approve of the way you did it(not in the position of a village that is), but it made things interesting too, gave us the choice to decide between what you wanted, argue to get closer what we wanted, or just go with ours all together, have I said how I don't like boring games? Boring allies are boring and you sure weren't one bass heh.

    Makes me wonder how much a big game and an expert game can coexist though... Especially if the big games follow the changes and go with new set ups... Well that is up to the players to decide, how much they can multi task.

    tl;dr: Wall of text says the game was epic, you lazy man.
  16. Jimbo

    Jimbo take me anywhere
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Sep 30, 2007
    Re: fence-sitting, yea I think that made us weaker but with Eo's damp great aether it was hard to trust him, and the geniuses weren't talking to us at all....

    I'm not one for long winded posts but thoughts:

    I enjoyed my team, I think A_G was a little too eager and hyperactive with what he was doing, which ultimately got him killed. I was I saw a bit more of Fishin because it was hard to not have anyone to bounce ideas off of for a good part of the game :(

    re: protecting jackal, hell no I didn't, I thought you'd use that as an opportunity to kill fishin so I protected him ~__~

    I hope it doesn't seem like I was being used the entire game. We actually went through many many scenarios in our channel for most actions, but usually the most logical one turned out to be one also suggested by another person (eo, shade, jackal, etc).

    Anyway, I really enjoyed this game. It was the first game where I was really motivated to do stuff (well I was forced to but w/e) in a while... Also, fun fact: our team never made a spreadsheet, ever. I guess we did ok for keeping everything in our heads :)
  17. RBG

    RBG Got a long list of ex-lovers, they'll tell you I'm insane.
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Facebook Manager

    Jan 27, 2008
    n0 i didn't know who to target so i asked the person sitting next to me at the time
    n1 aura guardian gave me a target because he threatened to out me to be lynched and killed
    n2 i did what bass said cause he promised a bg
  18. LightWolf

    LightWolf lightwoof
    is a Forum Moderator

    Jul 26, 2008
    The thing was once I and Mekkah both went down, we hard time with communication(it cost us the game in the end as you can see), and after the monsters started falling and the lynch on fishin failed(we were kind of forced into siding with the unknown on every lynch) I pretty much doubted the heroes would ally with anyone but you guys, while we were p much open to both sides, so we took the unknown side.
  19. evan

    evan I did my best -- I have no regrets
    is a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Apr 30, 2005
    hahah yeah that's true we never did make a spreadsheet. That lead to me having to be constantly reminded by Jimbo that shade and Eo were, in fact, on the same team lol
  20. Bass

    Bass Brother in arms
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 25, 2007
    By ridiculous stunt, I wasn't referring to the Objection itself but rather your attempts to anonymously communicate with me the way you did. Also, while I suppose I was wrong in guessing that was Flounder, it's pretty hard to negotiate with someone who tries to talk anonymously, in borderline incomprehensible capital letters. Not to mention I wouldn't want to needlessly spill something unnecessary. Since Flounder was on while you were doing that, I don't see why he didn't come forward to me with the proposal instead. Don't blame only me for being difficult to negotiate with.

    When blue_light joins my channel, I assume he is going to read what I say. And no, I didn't contact you guys myself because a) I assumed blue_light got the message and b) I was technically still dead so I had to be in the presence of EARTHWORM to do it anyway, who was gone. None of my other teammates logged on after that.

    Other than anonymous log posted above, which I think you are partially to blame as far as the tough negotiation, I don't really see what was so difficult. After the successful Von Karma, there was really only other rocky area, and that was in regards to some of the lynches, which was somewhat heated. Consider it from my perspective: The Monsters weren't willing to do shit to the criminals due to their alliance with the heroes, and they were pretty much slaughtering my faction. And of course, despite knowing who everyone was allied with, there were several things kept hidden from me (for instance I didn't know the criminals would get another backup kill if evan died, otherwise I wouldn't have lynched him). But I suppose that I will concede that my decisions were rash at times and that EARTHWORM is easier to negotiate with in general. Still, I don't really think my strategy was really detrimental in the long run (other than perhaps straining my reputation a little bit), considering that we were pretty much forced to ally with each other in order to win.

    I am glad I wasn't a boring ally! Tbh, even though my play was impassioned at times, I did it mostly because I thought it was... more fun.

    But I really need to be more wary of you next time, I underestimated your ability to see through my trap in that log!
  21. reyscarface

    is a Tiering Contributoris Smogon Frontier's Tower Tycoondefeated the Smogon Frontier

    Dec 9, 2008
    [18:59] <LonelyNess> 'sup, rey, you allied with me? (we don't need no mafia)
    [18:59] <reyscarface> i am allied with all
    [18:59] <reyscarface> and none
    [18:59] <reyscarface> i am the shadow of the day
    [18:59] <LonelyNess> so you're claiming neutral?
    [18:59] <reyscarface> i am the beginning of the end
    [18:59] <LonelyNess> (can we just do this simply, please)
    [18:59] <LonelyNess> like... y/n
    [18:59] <reyscarface> simply? simply????
    [19:00] <reyscarface> simply is factorial
    [19:00] <reyscarface> the world isnt factorial
    [19:00] <reyscarface> you must see it
    [19:00] * LonelyNess sighs
    [19:00] <reyscarface> as a bigger being
    [19:00] <reyscarface> you need to recognize what happens
    [19:00] <reyscarface> and what doesnt
    [19:00] <reyscarface> simply simple things arent simple enough to be called simple
    [19:00] <LonelyNess> ok people I'm not talking to anymore: reyscarface

    Talking like a complete retard: the best way to get LN off your ass.

    I enjoyed this game, I didnt do a whole lot because I usually just did what my superiors told me to, but at least I did get the chance to analize scenarios with billy on that last lynch :D
  22. zorbees

    is a Forum Moderator

    Dec 29, 2008
    So GUARD zorbees didn't win? I am disappoint.
  23. Accent


    Jul 8, 2009
    Thanks to the hosts! I like the way you distributed the roles (I didn't know I was dak's nemesis though). Game design wise, I think this game lacked the dynamism it was set to have with these roles, due to the overimportance of hookers and priority. Several roles were completely negated and rendered useless for the whole game because of that. But it's a clean and efficient structure, and it looks like it was balanced, so good job on that.

    Thanks to my team for being so cool to talk to and sorry for not being more involved, at some point I could have participated more since I was back from my trip but I thought it was better to let the established hierarchy take the decisions; and I died a few ingame days later anyway.

    Congrats to the winners and good game to everyone :)
  24. CyzirVisheen

    CyzirVisheen Am I poplar yet?
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Jul 2, 2007
    I thought I'd be composed enough to write up a postgame post, but I'm still not able to. So I'll just say two things. Firstly, I can't help but feel I dragged things down for jackal, and that he might've done better with a different teammate. Secondly, this is quite likely the last mafia game I'm going to play, as I clearly can't seem to play well enough at all.

    Also this was a very interesting game Amelia/Gmax etc. etc. etc.
  25. Bass

    Bass Brother in arms
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 25, 2007
    I would find mafia pretty boring without cyzir_visheen.

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