Explosion FTW!

[Arch]

Lol wait....


Isn't it a rule that if explosion ends the match, the person who used it loses?


My Dragonite had used draco meteor on a Claydol, didn't KO it, and then the Claydol used Explosion, winning in my opponents favor.


Both of our responses = "O_o"

 

[reyscarface]

Theres no Self-KO Clause in Ladder matches.

 

[A.P.]

SB1 isn't able to handle the Self-KO clause, because it calculates the opponent's damage before yours. I'm guessing this will change in SB2.

 

[cantab]

Isn't it a rule that if explosion ends the match, the person who used it loses?

Only the if the player using Explosion does so with their own last Pokemon. If you've got more than one Pokemon left, you can Explode to take out your opponent's last Pokemon for a legitimate win.

 

[Duck92]

When someone uses explosion, the opposite pokemon of the team takes damage first. Thus, when your dragonite hit 0, shoddybattle said that you lost. He had damage coming, but shoddybattle called it before it came to him. Pretty much, you take damage first. You died first. You lost. :/

 

[zarator]

I think recoil damage (such as Life Orb) too is affected by this issue, right?

 

[Zach]

I think recoil damage (such as Life Orb) too is affected by this issue, right?

yes

 

[cantab]

When someone uses explosion, the opposite pokemon of the team takes damage first. Thus, when your dragonite hit 0, shoddybattle said that you lost. He had damage coming, but shoddybattle called it before it came to him. Pretty much, you take damage first. You died first. You lost. :/

I think the problem isn't so much the order of damage, but that Shoddy is calling the victory the moment one player loses their last Pokemon, rather than calling it at the end of the turn, or after all effects of the move have taken place.

 

[cim]

Why does the rule end in the favor of the person that didn't use Explosion? I'm just curious as to why Self KO clause should go against what's in the game. Is there a competitive reason for it?

 

[cantab]

The only reason I can see is people not wanting to allow a draw. I personally think self-KO clause should be removed. Many games have drawing strategies and tactics (chess and soccer spring to mind(, and they enrich the game I feel.

 

[Arch]

The only reason I can see is people not wanting to allow a draw. I personally think self-KO clause should be removed. Many games have drawing strategies and tactics (chess and soccer spring to mind(, and they enrich the game I feel.

Sadly, every pokemon game has had the rule to where whoever used explosion/selfdestruct to end the game loses. It's fine I guess, don't know why it isn't allowed competetively....

 

[Blue_Tornado]

Since Shoddy Battle tries to mimic in-game Pokemon the best way it can, I think "draw" should be an option in SB2. Therefore, if both opponents' last Pokemon dies from Explosion, Destiny Bond, Life Orb, Rough Skin and more, it will be a draw and not a win. Maybe SB2 will calculate draws in a different manner than wins/losses when on the ladder if "draw" will be present: either the rating won't change and the deviation will (so both players benefit from it.. ?) or maybe both ratings change in the same manner, or maybe even change differently according to deviation or CRE. I know I may be blabbering unlogical stuff here competitively, but if we try to mimic Pokemon battles the best -- this is the way to do it.

 

[cantab]

Rating systems usually have a way to take into account a draw. A high-ranked player drawing to a much lower ranked player will result in the former moving down and the latter moving up.
Of course this is only fair if draws are reasonably preventable. Can an expert lure out and eliminate a novice's drawing Pokemon before the end? On the other hand, would an expert have any way to deal with a novice team full of exploders and dbonders?

 

[Blue_Tornado]

Explosions and d-bonding can be avoided if you're experienced enough, but still I doubt a player which has a team filled of them will get anywhere near the leaderboard, elimintating it's usage.

 

[Deep Thought]

I also believe that there should be the possibility of a "draw" built into SB2. For all we know, Colin and bearzly already have. It only seems fair to the person who was able to play his opponent into a situation where the opponent's last pokemon had to explode/d-bond(lol)/take lo recoil/etc. in order to take down his last pokemon. In terms of ratings, the lower-ranked player should go up and the higher-ranked player should go down, but the change shouldn't be as much as it would have been for a win- isn't that the way it works in chess?