NOC Fallout New Vegas NOC [GAME OVER - Wastelanders Win]

[vonFiedler]

- Something weird I noticed: In post #52 he bandwagons the Jalmont vote with no reason other than "obv mafia", which isn't really a big deal since it's so early on and Jalmont was acting really weird. But when Ullar says he looks bad for bandwagoning, he immediately makes an excuse saying "I just woke up" in post #56.
- I'm now noticing that the entirety of his posts are asking why people won't vote for Jalmont. Don't know why I didn't notice this before. I am up to post #178 and this still rings true. He literally talks about nothing else.
- It's post #313 and still nothing new. Take note of how he excuses Fatecrashers for some reason that makes absolutely no sense.
- Note in post #324 how he doesn't understand the Cancerous lynch.
- Post #332 pulls a complete 180 and jumps on the Cancerous bandwagon right after Fatecrashers. His only justification is "I read some of his posts" and "there's something there". This is A HUGE RED FLAG.

Bandwagoning, connections with Fatecrashers, there's more in that post too.

Also, how can you tell me that there is no excuse for my "rolefishing" (which I gave my reasoning for but no one agrees with me apparently) yet THE GUY YOU WANT TO LYNCH IS THE ONE THAT SOFTCLAIMED THE POWER ROLE. By this logic, it is ok to lynch the guy for softclaiming a power role, but not ok to ask him what his role is????

You'd have to be PRETTY damn certain HD is mafia on day 1 then. Like already certain, and only wanting to catch him in a lie. And yet you keep going on and on about how you aren't tunneling? Only one player is gonna get lynched today. If its not HD, and if he's town, why broadcast his role?

Your sudden suspicion of me really caught me off guard and is unfounded. The majority of your play this end half of Day 1 has been so weird. Like you just want the "informal vote" so me, HD, and Cancerous are the only options now? If you guys do vote me off for this terrible reasoning please look into vonFiedler.

I guess we should look at all five people who informally voted you too. And LW for coming up with the arguments against you in the first place. Or maybe, and this shouldn't need be explained twice, "you think I'm scum so I think you're scum" helps no one.

You don't like the informal vote because it didn't go your way. But we have half a day to lynch someone, and I'm not too keen on someone getting lynched with a mere three votes on themselves just because deadline takes us unaware. Looking at any option other than the three I listed, when at best two people want any of them lynched, is lunacy.

 

[vonFiedler]

My vote never left Haunted.Diamond, by the way. There's still some time to talk but keep in mind the deadline everyone, and make sure to cast a lynch vote that is actually going to matter by then.

 

[More Cowbell]

Last official vote count for this day:

Cancerous (4): moi, Jalmont, Spiffy, rssp1, sunny004, Fatecrashers, Haunted Diamond, rssp1
Haunted Diamond (1): PokeguyNXB, Spiffy, Fatecrashers, PokeguyNXB, vonFiedler, sunny004, Spiffy
Spiffy (2): Celever, Celever, PokeguyNXB, LightWolf, Celever, PokeguyNXB
ButteredToast (2): Amianki, Serious Bananas
Jalmont (1): Serious Bananas, Haunted Diamond, Fatecrashers, ButteredToast
Fatecrashers (1): Spiffy
Celever (0): Cancerous, Spiffy, Fatecrashers, Spiffy, Spiffy, vonFiedler, Serious Bananas
No Lynch (0): Jalmont, sunny004
LightWolf (0): Spiffy, sunny004
sunny004 (0): Celever
vonFiedler (0): LightWolf
Serious Bananas (0): Haunted Diamond
PokeguyNXB (0): Spiffy
Norden (0): Celever
moi (0): Ullar, Serious Bananas, Fatecrashers, vonFiedler
rssp1, Amianki (0):

Not voting (4): Ullar, ButteredToast, Cancerous, sunny004

Please correct me if I made any mistakes.

Didn't feel like writing the whole thing out again, so I just quoted the old vote count and updated that. A little under 7 hours remaining!

 

[rssp1]

ok so I skim through this before I reply in the night but just posting to say that voting someone solely because they're acting as an NOC village leader is really stupid and should not be done. I don't think there's anyone actually doing that, but wanted to clarify that in the case that anyone was thinking that or anyone was thinking that I thought that.

 

[Amianki]

Suddenly, rssp1 looks a lot less town for that post. :/

 

[Spiffy]

vonFiedler
The only thing incorrect the post that I see is that his first vote in #52 was actually not a bandwagon like I said it was. I had assumed that he had given Ullar's response to his post telling him that he had.
The point that Haunted Diamond bandwagoned the Cancerous vote right after Fatecrashers (which I think is what you're referring to) is NOT a lie. Fate posted his vote for Cancerous in post #328 and Haunted Diamond's is in #332.

Why do you suspect Haunted Diamond and not Fatecrashers even after HD has claimed a power role?

You'd have to be PRETTY damn certain HD is mafia on day 1 then. Like already certain, and only wanting to catch him in a lie. And yet you keep going on and on about how you aren't tunneling? Only one player is gonna get lynched today. If its not HD, and if he's town, why broadcast his role?

I don't understand how this can be a response to my question at all. HE'S the one that softclaimed a power role. I didn't coax him into saying anything like that. It is only after the fact I wanted him to claim for reasons I have stated already.

 

[Amianki]

Amianki
I said in the post that it was more of a "things I noticed" post than a "reads" post, which is why the list doesn't quite match up. I then combined these things with things I had already considered to get the order I posted. It may not have been the most efficient or clear way to rank them and was kind of done on a whim for the benefit of everyone. I don't hold much weight onto that last.

It's not a very good indicator of where all your thoughts are, then. Only having some of your thoughts when summarizing each player combined with no stated read on any one particular player (not knowing where the dead null line is brings it into this category) doesn't really help get a sense of where your head's at.

Although knowing that you only have one town read and one maybe town read as well as I'm guessing three(?) total scumreads is worrying. Your level of engagement with other players directly combined with this still bugs me too.

 

[Amianki]

What is HD's experience with the game and how common are scumteams allowed to talk during the day phase? I had a thought and both of these are important to how valid it is.

 

[Cancerous]

I have lab work, can't read all this, and won't be back till very close to deadline.
If I have to choose to save myself, i'll vote for jalmont or haunted

 

[vonFiedler]

Why do you suspect Haunted Diamond and not Fatecrashers even after HD has claimed a power role?

Fate has done a pretty good job of defending himself against you. Enough at least to lower him from my top 2 spot. Clearly plenty of people feel the same way. Why are you so concerned with lynching them as a pair? It could be that even if one is lynched and flips mafia, that the other was just being set up.

I don't understand how this can be a response to my question at all. HE'S the one that softclaimed a power role. I didn't coax him into saying anything like that. It is only after the fact I wanted him to claim for reasons I have stated already.

But YOU are the one who asked for his claim. I think that one of the two are mafia. How does this conflict with anything? If you are mafia, then you're just role fishing. If he's mafia and we lynch him, why do you need his role claim? It's beyond pointless, and suggests that you're all in on this vote when you've been whining about how people shouldn't see you as tunneling.

 

[LightWolf]

I will be putting my Vote on Haunted Diamond as it stands because as again again I have stated already, I believe he is a good day 1 lynch regardless, and I actually agree with spiffy that his soft power role claim reeks of desperation, kinda, mostly a gut feeling, though while I personally wouldn't force it out of him before putting him in a lynch situation, for Spiffy who was nearly convinced Haunted is a scum the soft claim could be seen as a tipping point and a very reasonable option to try and call the bluff he perceived from HD and really shouldn't come as that big of a surprise to anybody. Which is why it seems people are jumping on Spiffy a bit too quickly, not to mention von's numbers don't account for the fact that likely nearly everyone who picked spiffy thought I'd do so too(which I never planned to do). The whole spiffy push just comes out of nowhere, and makes me even less comfortable with it on day 1.

Also anyone supporting a sunny lynch, while I stated a few times I'd not mind sunny being lynched, he is 100% not day 1 material, the day 1 lynch result should be our spring board to jump start future discussions, sunny provides little to nothing in that regard.

Also rssp1 it seems there is a misunderstanding going around between you spiffy and me on the matter of NOC village leading. While you brought it up in the literal sense that he is leading the village in directions, influencing the flow of discussions etc(which a recently quoted moi line actually pointed out that I hadn't actually noticed previously, and sums up my reason for wanting to put Spiffy in a defensive position in the first place), which then Spiffy took as the problem being him not understanding the definition, or that being one is bad, which I believe neither of us meant(I mostly meant it in relation that he is kinda using it to seem busy in a sense). Either way it's not a definition, not an actual phrase, just words that describe the role he was taking fairly accurately. With that let us please drop that argument and lets just write a nice long paragraph when we want to make a point so no more confusion like that happens again pleeeeeeeeaaaase!

Also I don't quite see the problem with people not actually having many actual reads yet, it's day 1, even though 20 pages may seem like much we barely went from no lynch->moivsvon->jalmont'sruse->mixtureofstuffonCancerousCeleverHD->SpiffyvstheWorld I personally will likely never have town reads because I'm not trusting anyone I only trust their logic and only if it's something I can get behind. I may have missed you posting them, but Amianki, if you believe people should have more reads(even if you specifically state Spiffy should have more because he interacted with more people, when p much every person suddenly jumping on Spiffy made their read without interacting with him merely observing me and celever interacting with him) where is your list of reads. I'm buddying Spiffy so hard right now but nope I call too much bollocks on this sudden Spiffy bloodlust to care about that right now(Or maybe I'm not used to people actually agreeing with me after tunneling someone, meh that's questioning my own opinion, not gonna go there)

 

[Amianki]

I'll get reads out soonish, but to answer your question about read amount: It's less about him not having very many reads in general and more that he's been the player that was pushing for a lot of interaction through the thread and interacting with players himself, yet he's not getting reads from it. It's one thing to be in the background and not get very many reads, but being right in the middle of everything and taking a lot of opportunities to push people to interact/engage him and not getting reads is a whole other story.

 

[Spiffy]

Amianki I never really like to reveal town reads in the first place. It gives mafia a really easy target when someone is universally trusted, which is why I generally have less of them. I also approach this game as everyone is guilty until proven innocent, which many people clearly don't agree with but I believe is the most effective way of scum hunting and not leaving anyone out.

And I am getting reads on it. I have given reasoning for several people I think are possible scum.

As for your question about HD, I have been a part of a mafia on this forum that had outside communication (Mario Kart NOC).
I don't know about HD's experience outside of this being his first game on this forum.

vonFiedler Why did you say I lied when I didn't? I noticed you didn't address that part of my post.

I am no longer considering Haunted Diamond as a viable lynch option this day because he claimed a power role. I do not lynch people that claim power roles on Day 1. Since no one allowed him to be pressured into saying WHICH power role he was, we have no more information about his role and thus can't really prove or disprove his claim. I am not taking the chance.

Does no one other than LightWolf see a problem with everyone suddenly being ok with lynching me despite LW being the only one to give valid reasons in the first place? It's really frustrating how everyone is ignoring this.

 

[Amianki]

---TOWN---
---
vonFiedler
---
---
Haunted Diamond (pending answers to questions; I think he might have towntelled)
Serious Bananas
---
Celever
Lightwolf
---
Fatecrashers
sunny004
Cancerous
---
---
rssp1
---NULL---
Ullar
---
---
Jalmont
PokeguyNXB
---
---
---
---
Spiffy
---
---
ButteredToast
---
---
---
---SCUM---

Quoted because of length.

 

[Celever]

What is HD's experience with the game and how common are scumteams allowed to talk during the day phase? I had a thought and both of these are important to how valid it is.

Very little experience I believe. Didn't he mention that this is his first game somewhere? IDR exactly.

Usually scum can talk during the day, but nighttalk only is a very real possibility too. As an observation, smaller games tend to disallow day chat more than bigger games, and I'd say this is quite small. Thouh the only other NOC More Cowbell has hosted on this site did allow daychat. I'd say just post your thought! :p

Oh, hi Spiffy! Honestly I don't feel a need to get into an argument with you, especially since it's ~1 AM. ButteredToast Cancerous and sunny004 I want to hear your thoughts, accompanied by a lynch vote Make your voice heard with a vote! Plus, we need information on every playe for tomorrow, and we should be able to look at the final vote count to find some snap interactions at the start of Day 2 to carry on discussion. If you don't place a voteafter checking the thread between now and deadline I will examin your Day 1 posts extremely carefully overnight and will post my thoughts on the at the start of Day 2. Whether you're town or mafia, you don't want this, so get to lynching!

People should be able to make their own decisions now. This is why I'm not going to argue with Spiffy. You really don't need me to dissect his post and exploit his fallacies and the like, becauselike always he'll spring back and reply with arguments that barely even make sense to me. It's early morning and I'm tipsy. Don't force me to do this. It's take me like 20 minutes to dojust this post because my hands are't coordinatng rn, and I hate having typos in my posts, which means a lot of correcting rn... ~;

LightWolf what are we going to learn from HD's lynch? You just said that we shouldn't lynch sunny because he hasn't done enough today to give us info tomorrow. Fair enough, makes sense. Hauned Diamond has basically done no more ta him, besides buddy with Fate, which is just going to make Fate the centre of attention tomorrow if HD flips town because of anotherplayer's actions and not his own, and I hate it when that happens because it seems really unfair. If HD flips scum, Fate is likely not scum and... we don't have a more info from the lynch, basically making another Day 1.

You know who has made enough connections with lots of players? Spiffy! Well, he doesn't want you to think so. I figured out what's been bugging Amianki about Spiffy's reads. Afterwards, when he said "I only actually have reads on 4 players BTW!" he tried to remain inconspicuous. It's like trying to hide info from the town. It was a safety net move in case he got lynched today, because a scum revealing a long list ofreads and info about each player would be a goldmine of discussion Day 2. Why would he want to cause this as mafia? He wouldn't!

 

[Amianki]

Amianki I never really like to reveal town reads in the first place. It gives mafia a really easy target when someone is universally trusted, which is why I generally have less of them. I also approach this game as everyone is guilty until proven innocent, which many people clearly don't agree with but I believe is the most effective way of scum hunting and not leaving anyone out.

This doesn't logically follow. How does not wanting to reveal townreads mean you'll have less of them?

I disagree with the easily targeted thing, but I'll drop it since it's almost certainly a result of being used to different site metas.

 

[Amianki]

I actually don't want to reveal what the towntell is yet since it will benefit scum more than town to have it be public. I'll be more certain of whether it's genuine or not on day two.

 

[vonFiedler]

vonFiedler Why did you say I lied when I didn't? I noticed you didn't address that part of my post.

I can't say that you lied in that post. But it does seem you formatted in a way so as to create that pattern between HD and Fatecrashers, and then you went on and talked about that connection quite a bit. Whether it's deceitful or a mistake, it was a major cornerstone of your argument. And on a target that you only just stopped trying to lynch. What a reversal "I don't lynch power roles on day 1" is too.

Does no one other than LightWolf see a problem with everyone suddenly being ok with lynching me despite LW being the only one to give valid reasons in the first place? It's really frustrating how everyone is ignoring this.

As I said and no one responded to:

On the contrary, it seems we are unfortunately split between HD, Spiffy, and Cancerous atm. With as many players as we have, none of these could be seen as excessively large numbers for an informal vote. And if they could, one could say the same of HD and Cancerous.

At this point, each target has about five informal votes on them. That's only a third of the players. Why do you think that number is significant? Do you really think that mafia would bandwagon like that on an informal vote? And if so, why does this not apply to HD and Cancerous?

I asked people not to get bogged down with reasons when they posted these votes, but most did. Saying that only LW had valid concerns (which is a weird thing to say when you argued against them all) is thick headed at best and manipulative at worst.

 

[Celever]

Does no one other than LightWolf see a problem with everyone suddenly being ok with lynching me despite LW being the only one to give valid reasons in the first place? It's really frustrating how everyone is ignoring this.

I don't see a prblem with it TBH. What, like 5 people voted for you? IIRC none of whom were particulalry scummy to start with (well, I'm up for debate)? How is this "everyone"? LW's sudden shift of standing in relation to you is interesting to say the least because I disagree with his reasoning for doing so. But 5/14 players isn't an overwhelming majortiy or anything. You were't some clean power role or something before this and now because 5 people is now OK with lynching you now there's actually room for concern! All 5 of us could asily be town. Plus, don't forget the courier! The curier could be in the 5 people! OR you could be the courier so mafia can be in the group of people to start with anywa even if it's not an overwhelming number of people like I pointed out earlier. It's a weak dfense really...

 

[Spiffy]

Celever just doesn't want to admit that none of his arguments are valid lol

Amianki Obviously that list is not set in stone, I don't get why it's such a big part of your read on me. What I mean is that I have more town reads then I have explicitly stated. Either way, I am approaching this game looking for what makes people scummy, so do you disagree that it's natural to have more scum reads than town reads? Fatecrashers did the same kind of analysis as me but didn't necessarily provide town reads, yet you have him pretty comfortably on the village side. Does the fact that I provided the list really make that big of a difference?

vonFiedler I suddenly stopped because he SUDDENLY softclaimed a power role. Don't see why that's a huge change of heart.

The number five is significant enough when eight is a majority, and especially since it's the highest vote receiver out of everyone. It doesn't strike you odd that the guy that received the most informal votes is someone that no one has even discussed? It's not even about the number of people that voted for me, it's about how sudden it was. IIRC the only person who voted for me that had suspected me prior (with shit reasoning) was Celever. There weren't even any "I agree with LightWolf"'s until after the informal votes were cast. People are just using LightWolf as a catalyst to try and get me lynched.

And stop acting like that's the only argument I'm making for why I'm village (looking at Celever here who chose only this to respond to despite me giving him an array of reasons why his argument is shit).

I argued THAT the arguments used against me were stupid. If I don't someone like Celever is gonna accuse me of picking the only the arguments that are convenient for me to argue.

 

[LightWolf]

LightWolf what are we going to learn from HD's lynch? You just said that we shouldn't lynch sunny because he hasn't done enough today to give us info tomorrow. Fair enough, makes sense. Hauned Diamond has basically done no more ta him, besides buddy with Fate, which is just going to make Fate the centre of attention tomorrow if HD flips town because of anotherplayer's actions and not his own, and I hate it when that happens because it seems really unfair. If HD flips scum, Fate is likely not scum and... we don't have a more info from the lynch, basically making another Day 1.

You know who has made enough connections with lots of players? Spiffy! Well, he doesn't want you to think so. I figured out what's been bugging Amianki about Spiffy's reads. Afterwards, when he said "I only actually have reads on 4 players BTW!" he tried to remain inconspicuous. It's like trying to hide info from the town. It was a safety net move in case he got lynched today, because a scum revealing a long list ofreads and info about each player would be a goldmine of discussion Day 2. Why would he want to cause this as mafia? He wouldn't!

For the HD lynch, are you SERIOUSLY comparing sunny who openly refused to say stuff and barely posted anything but votes to be on the same level as HD? As you yourself said, HD has the buddy thing, but in addition to that as I said mentioned previously, something I wished to look into but will have to wait till later, he was one of the first to be extending the jalmont ruse discussion via attacking jalmont for it, and while those are the ones I can name of the top of my head, he certainly made more interactions and more specifically had a part of the day dedicated to people discussing his lynch, these are all threads we can use based on HD's death, that sunny 100% lacks.

As for Spiffy, no my entire argument started with the point that Spiffy actually has few connections because he was the one asking others to do stuff and as the moi quote said which really does better at saying what I think than I could, he actually in a way avoided actual connections to people, ergo Spiffy barely has anything but arguments with me and the attack on HD(which works the other way too so HD lynch gets us that too).

As for 5 players being not many, I disagree when only 1 of those actually voiced their problem with Spiffy beforehand, even though my discussion with him spanned over 3 days leaving plenty of room for others to jump in on it, yet they only do it after they have been given a free pass to make a "vote" without having to actually explain themselves. Spiffy and Cancerous I believe at this time are at the same number, yet you can clearly see the difference there, Cancerous was under scrutiny by multiple people beforehand who did chime in on the discussion at the time, where as the Spiffy people in general seem far more opportunistic and seem like they just didn't dare touching Spiffy yet. I still think(That until I check my jalmont ruse thingy) Spiffy is my most scummy pick, which doesn't mean much as my main reasoning I can argue for remains a single point, and both the current circumstances and his background just make him a bad day 1 lynch. Also he is still someone active even if in my opinion in a noncontent way for the first 8 pages. This really feels like mafia trying their chances at eliminating someone doing a decent job till now because they have the chance to.

 

[Celever]

I can't even make hads or tails out of that post (Spiffy's). I,ight ned to sober up but the. Deqdline will have passed...

I guess this is my last post of the day. Who you guys lynchis your decision, but you all sho
Uld place some kind of vote Bc it wkll help us out in the long rn.

@LW, Spiffy has done some cummy things recently though so they might have just now changes their kpinions. Like the rolefish and the scumy reads list. They both happened ater your discusioon with him. A d spiffy still his more connections than
hD and sunny. I'm going to bed mow anyway and I'm keavig my vote on Spiffy. Hoping he's lynched by tomorrow but we,ll just have to wait and sea.

 

[Fatecrashers]

Spiffy has done some cummy things recently

a glorious typo

 

[sunny004]

I can't even make hads or tails out of that post (Spiffy's). I,ight ned to sober up but the. Deqdline will have passed...

I guess this is my last post of the day. Who you guys lynchis your decision, but you all sho
Uld place some kind of vote Bc it wkll help us out in the long rn.

@LW, Spiffy has done some cummy things recently though so they might have just now changes their kpinions. Like the rolefish and the scumy reads list. They both happened ater your discusioon with him. A d spiffy still his more connections than
hD and sunny. I'm going to bed mow anyway and I'm keavig my vote on Spiffy. Hoping he's lynched by tomorrow but we,ll just have to wait and sea.

Also drunk/sleepy post ftw

 

[Spiffy]

Isn't Celever like 12 he really shouldn't be drinking.