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ORAS LC Far Away

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Fiend, Oct 2, 2016.

  1. Fiend

    Fiend the hound.
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
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    Far Away
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I started this rmt about 8 months ago, and I’ve never bothered to finish it. Since then, my computer essentially permanently locked me out meaning I had to wipe the memory to get back into the computer. This resulted in a loss of screenshots for some claims about the team, and some sporadic year old notes as my only way to jog my memory. I’ve finally decided to rmt this team (850 posts!), as its finally fallen out of favor enough for me to ‘retire’ the team.

    When I first built this team over a year ago (somewhere in October 2015) Shellder was hardly considered as a threat by the community at large. Shellder was rarely seen, often overlooked, but generally really, really good at dismantling the common teams of the era. At this team’s peak, only a handful of teams were both sturdy enough and powerful enough to push back against the combination of hazard stack in tandem with Magnemite (sadly not Analytic), Fletchling, and Shellder. Only things such as Defog Stunky, Slowpoke, the rare Defog Vullaby, and Ponyta really managed to be massive issues for the team, but at the time the team was built the most common of these was Ponyta, which would crumble to offensive pressure given you don’t choke against it. Defog Stunky was the second most common, but was largely seen on teams where hazards weren’t totally needed due to their generally slow and somewhat frail build. These teams also happened to struggle to fit in Ice resists, making Shellder sweeps absurdly easy half the time. Outside of hax (or my occasional fuck up) the team, to put it simply, almost always won. While topping the ladder is a ‘cool’ benchmark for teams, I hardly think it amounts to much. However, a solid streak of 29-0 does show the consistency of the team, especially considering that my 30th game was versus Sken. I should have won if he didn’t try to sac his Staryu turn 3 just for a rather pointless Scald burn against Pumpkaboo, which he completely walled with Larvesta. It worked out for him as I doubled to keep up momentum, he got the burn, and I lost from there; we both played bad. I believe after that fuck up of a game, I went on to win another 11 matches in a row (40-1) and then losing to a Honedge and Defog Stunky team. And even though I think topping the ladder doesn’t mean much, I’ll still note that I stopped laddering with a record of 69-6, a GXE of 91.7, and 1652 elo--which was #3 on the ladder. And at the same time, Sage was taking up #1 and #2 while currently using my team. Again, I unfortunately don’t have any screenshots of these claims, and the main users who might remember this are inactive (OP come back!). I guess just take it all with a grain of salt, but man the team tore stuff up. However I do have some proof of the team going 5-0 in Farm League--Shrug used it Week 2 and won, while I used it Weeks 1, 2 4 and 5 and won.

    Team Building Process:

    When I started to build this team, I had three things in mind: Volturn needs to die, Shellder is cute and I should use it, and apparently Diglett is broken. From this I started looking at different possible cores utilizing Shellder with some help from OP I had a list of ShellDig, ShellFletch, VullaShell, and Dwebble + Shellder to start from, and naturally being an amazing team builder I tossed a few of these cores together to build the first iteration of the team, which happened to be fairly standard team but with a few twists.
    [​IMG]
    The first iteration of the team is vastly different than the final in both of the makeup of the team and how aggressive I could play it. The main similarity between this version and the last is the core of Dwebble + Shellder. While this may at first seem like an odd pairing or even one that accomplishes little, the reliable hazard support is awesome for Shellder. All of Shellder’s relevant checks are grounded, and all but three lack any form of reliable recovery. And after switching into hazards twice, all of Shellder’s counters but Slowpoke and Berry Juice Magnemite fall. And considering almost no one prepared for Shellder yet, this was a brutal strategy. Plus Shellder’s offensive coverage naturally breaks down Voltturn, and Spike Stack offensive naturally has good matchup against Voltturn, meaning I basically had to try to lose against Voltturn teams.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Of course, since I was still trying to form an opinion on Diglett, I just tossed it onto the team as it has a semi-okay presence on hazard oriented teams and it is a decent pair with Shellder. The option of Memento support was also kinda appealing, but in practice unused. Additionally, hazards were enough to make trapping Chinchou far less important, Pawniard was a 50/50, and Magnemite was a risk to trap. There was the bonus of trapping Larvesta and Ponyta for the team but overall this too helpful as hazards make Larvesta a deadweight 70% of the time and Ponyta was rather uncommon. Unfortunately Diglett made the team rather weak to Scraggy and Snivy, which were more popular then than they are now.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    In an effort to handle the Snivy weakness and the need for a Spinblocker, I added Pumpkaboo with Fire Blast. This was a pretty poor Snivy answer, and is more of a lure than anything. Plus the team as it was was got eaten alive by Magnemite and Pawniard despite Diglett, and it was generally failing to really have an option to break bulky offense in the way hazard stack should (well it was really just Porygon/Spritzee/Ferroseed/Snubbull but that’s still bad), and due to the nature of those teams Shellder struggled to break through them without a decent amount of support. Poison Jab Mienfoo was my catch all answer of choice, and honestly it worked far better than it should have. But my bird answer at this point was a toss up between Shellder and Mienfoo, which really forced the team to dedicate to a long lasting, trapping proof Fletchling counter. I also needed a way to check Timburr and another Snivy answer, thus I added an Berry Juice Archen which quickly became “Bird-proof” Itemless Archen (lots of HP and Defense) in order to somewhat check Snivy, which at the time was generally some non 17 Speed Hidden Power and Berry Juice with Substitute. But if you noticed, Gothita+sweeper murdered the team, Gastly KOed everything but two mons, my answer for Shell Smashers was the x button, and any Water-type bar non Ice Beam Chinchou and bulky Staryu would bust through the team. And Snivy was still an issue despite my soft checks while Scraggy needed to just Knock Off Mienfoo to win.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I wasn’t really happy with Diglett on the team, as it didn’t magically end up in against what I needed to trap. I played with Gothita in its place for a short while, really just to see if forcing in Pawniard with it would be enough. It wasn’t, plus giving every other Dark-type of the tier free turns was really bad. So I started to make a few more changes to make the team actually decent; Mienfoo became Stone Edge and High Jump Kick (which was rare outside of Scarf at the time) and Archen became Berry Juice Magnemite. This worked pretty well, but I was still unhappy with the team, as BJ Magnemite isn’t quite my cup of tea and the team relied a lot on 50/50s versus Overheat Fletchling, Ponyta, Omanyte, and other really good LC pokemon.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    So I switched up Magnemite’s set to Choice Scarf Magnet Pull with Hidden Power Fighting in an effort to both better abuse the hazards from Dwebble and remove Steel types for Shellder as Diglett was suppose to and Gothita never could. Then Fletchling was added over Gothita to provide better offensive synergy with Shellder and to once again better abuse the hazards. With Spikes and Overheat, the contemporary trend of Steels, Chinchou, and Archen as the only dedicated Fletchling counters really proved to be inadequate by themselves. And because the addition of two solid Snivy checks, Pumpkaboo dropped Fire Blast for Will-O-Wisp which added much needed chip damage against things like Porygon or Spritzee or really whatever else felt like switching in.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    In Depth:

    [​IMG]
    Shellder @ Eviolite | Skill Link
    Adamant | EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 36 Def / 196 Spe
    Icicle Spear | Shell Smash | Rock Blast | Ice Shard

    Shell Smash Shellder is the star of the team and my second favorite sweeper in LC (Treecko > all), with 80% of games ending as soon as it Smashes even now that it is prepared for. You should always run an Adamant nature when using Ice Shard to always OHKO Fletchling after Rocks (I guess you can use an Impish Nature since Ice Shard kills 11/16 oth the time anyway, fast Fletchling is KOed always still, and the added bulk is kinda nice). Then of course, Sheller’s has the obligatory Icicle Spear--thankfully this cannot miss holy shit--and Rock Blast. In tandem with Stealth Rock and a single Spike, this coverage leaves only Steel-types, 26 HP / 16 Defense Pokemon, and bulky Berry Juice pokemon to handle Shellder. This list in limited mostly to Aron, Beldum, Bronzor, Ferroseed, Honedge, Klink, Lickitung, Magnemite, Munchlax, Omanyte, Pawniard, Porygon, Shellder, Shieldon, Slowpoke, Spritzee, and Tirtouga. I might have missed a few, but the point still stands; it’s a small list. Half of these are literally never get seen comparatively, while the other half gets worn down fairly steadily by hazards and Fletchling--the exceptions of Porygon, opposing Shellder, and Slowpoke are present however. For some reason, Razor Shell was repeatedly suggested to me by both ladder randoms and competent players as this allows me to beat Magnemite and Pawniard but causes Fletchling to viably revenge kill. Simply doing this results in a completely different team, which I already have and I find it less reliable. Razor Shell can also miss (rip 2015 LC Open run) and more commonly opens Shellder up to more chip damage, such as from Diglett’s Sucker Punch and several Choice Scarf Pokemon (Doduo, Gastly, the slightly possible +1 speed Scarf Snivy?).

    Basically don’t run anything else besides this set. It’s too good.​

    [​IMG]
    Dwebble @ Berry Juice | Sturdy
    Jolly | EVs: 236 Def / 236 Spe
    Knock Off | Rock Blast | Spikes | Stealth Rock

    This is normally what you see Dwebble run. The EVs are different as this is a bit more useful for me than the added Attack was (I really don’t think it does anything but oh well).. Normally, I did not lead Dwebble thanks to the omnipresent Taunt Mienfoo and ladder’s love for Onix, yet Dwebble does still provide the team with beautiful hazard support and mid game ‘counters’ to some powerful threats such as the now banned Drifloon or +0 Fletchling. Despite having zero Fighting type counters, Knock Off and Rock Blast are ran over other options such as Counter and Earthquake as both Bulk Up Timburr and Croagunk are handled through offensive pressure with Fletchling, Mienfoo, and, somewhat laughably, Pumpkaboo-Super. But these options work just as well and it doesn’t really matter as hazards are tossed up 95% of the time. The hazards are crucial to the team in most matchups, so therefore Dwebble needs to be played aggressively but not recklessly.

    [​IMG]
    Pumpkaboo-Super @ Eviolite | Frisk
    Careful | EVs: 204 HP / 36 Def / 236 SpD / 28 Spe
    Bullet Seed | Shadow Sneak | Synthesis | Will-O-Wisp

    Pumpkaboo-Super is ran as our spinblocker due to the ability to force Chinchou out, prevent spins from both Drilbur and Staryu, cripple numerous threats with Will-O-Wisp, and providing crucial chip damage on several things with Bullet Seed and Shadow Sneak. The set in entirely standard, as any other set (besides perhaps Rock Slide) is less effective and results in making the team fall apart. Pumpkaboo is the the initial switch in for Abra on the team, as well as being the only ‘reliable’ Foongus switch in. Pumpkaboo is the--admittedly inadequate--safeguard against Tirtouga for the team, which is otherwise irksome depending on the coverage options. Rock Slide is kinda cool to maim Fletchling, Vullaby, and the Fire-types which switch into Pumpkaboo with a burning passion. Will-O-Wisp is more useful overall though, also acts to help rack up chip damage on random switch ins while giving the team some added bulk.

    [​IMG]
    Mienfoo @ Eviolite | Regenerator
    Jolly | EVs: 196 Def / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
    High Jump Kick | Knock Off | U-turn | Stone Edge or Acrobatics

    Mienfoo is the token Fighting type on the team. High Jump Kick is ran over Drain Punch since High Jump Kick actually does damage, and U-turn is the healing move anyway. When I built the team, Drain Punch was the most common Fighting STAB on Mienfoo, but I think that’s bad unless you’re slow Mienfoo. High Jump Kick gives the team offensive pressure, something that Mienfoo usually lacks and especially handy late game. Knock Off and U-turn are the normal moves that are there for team support and enjoy High Jump Kick’s power. The two moves also help work towards something sweeping through weakening walls and snatching momentum. Stone Edge removes Larvesta which is otherwise annoying and prevents Ponyta from switching in; it is also useful for pressuring Vullaby and Archen to the point where neither cannot Defog when they try to come in on Mienfoo as is common on the ladder. I have Acrobatics slashed as it slaughters Foongus and Croagunk and sometimes Timburr, but usually I find it not as useful Stone Edge generally. Poison Jab is also an option in the last slot as both Snubbull and Spritzee can be pests, but usually they get worn down quickly enough (High Jump Kick does about 30% to Evioliteless Spritzee) plus Magnemite is there to provide extra pressure and VoltTurning shenanigans.

    The team supports itself, and does not necessarily need max speed on Mienfoo (though it makes playing versus Sticky Web winnable), which means that spreads of 156 HP / 196 Def / 116 SpD with a Careful Nature or 236 HP / 116 Def / 36 SpD / 76 Spe with an Impish Nature can be run. The former is the standard defensive Mienfoo spread, which lives Focus Sash Abra’s Psychic while also having the ability to still outspeed Pancham. Though momentum is not the most important thing for Mienfoo to grab versus bulky teams, you can lower the speed IVs to 29 to speed creep below other defensive Mienfoos and have the slower U-turn. The latter spread does not live Focus Sash Abra’s Psychic, though it survives Gothita’s, it speed creeps Larvesta and Vullaby in order to smack them with Stone Edge while gaining 8 HP from Regenerator. If you are running Acrobatics, the first spread is superior--especially if you lower the Speed IVs. The slower spreads most probably should run Drain Punch for the healing it provides.

    [​IMG]
    Magnemite @ Choice Scarf | Magnet Pull
    Modest | EVs: 40 Def / 160 SpA / 240 Spe
    Hidden Power [Fighting] | Volt Switch | Flash Cannon | Magic Coat

    Now this is a fairly odd set honestly, but it worked rather well. This bastardization of the old Trapper set and Scarf Magnemite provides perfect synergy with the team, especially with Magic Coat thrown onto the set. Hidden Power Fighting OHKOs Pawniard after Stealth Rock with this Special Attack investment while helping to remove opposing Magnemite which is notably vexatious to the team. Hidden Power Fighting also does enough to Ferroseed for Shellder to break through it after a Shell Smash. Where the real ‘innovation’ comes in is with Magic Coat, as this allows me to almost have passable matchup versus Sticky Web. Shrug and I came up with this idea independently of one another, though both of us agree the set is lordy. Magnemite dies to +2 Sucker Punch though, resulting in Mienfoo needing to kill Pawniard if you do bounce back Sticky Web. Life Orb Pawniard also kills with Sucker Punch after Fletchling’s Acrobatics or U-turn, so be wary of that. Volt Switch and Flash Cannon are obvious choices and speak for themselves.

    The EV spread is pretty weird; it addes a little bit of bulk to Magnemite which is very useful. It also maintains 19 Special Attack and 14 Speed which still lets Magnemite be a good Scarfer. If you feel like running slow Mienfoo, you might as well drop Magic Coat for Thunderbolt since you’ll lose versus standard webs teams even with the tech.

    [​IMG]
    Fletchling | Gale Wings
    Naughty | EVs: 160 HP / 196 Atk / 92 Def / 36 SpA / 24 Spe
    Swords Dance | Acrobatics | U-turn | Overheat

    Fletchling has amazing synergy with Shellder and compliments the team’s offensive nature extremely well; every team needs at least one Flying resist solid, and usually a backup plan for Fletchling to be considered a passable team. Despite being so prepared for, Spike stack makes most counters function a grand total of one time, maybe twice if they have recovery. Acrobatics also gives the team flexibility to revenge kill a variety of threats and can completely swing games when played well. The lethality of Fletchling is compounded by the presence of Magnemite as the most common counters (then Archen and Pawniard, now Pawniard and Magnemite) are in some form abused by this pokemon. Even the harder to wear down counters such RestTalk Chinchou and Defensive Tirtouga dislike the presence of Spikes and Pumpkaboo. The last slot is almost always Overheat since Magnemite and Sticky Webs + Pawniard are problematic and any Honedge is untouched by almost the entire team. Yet either Tailwind or Hidden Power Grass can be a good choice unless you suspect your opponent to bring a Honedge. It’s not though. Hidden Power Grass is arguably better in tournament matches, and lures Tirtouga, Omanyte and the ever relevant Binacle (I really hate ladder man) better for the team--all of which are irksome to some degree. Without Overheat, Pawniard has to be carefully dealt with and because of that I’ve debated dropping SD for HP Grass, but SD is just so nice for wall breaking or outright sweeping.

    The EV spread can be adjusted in order to hit 15 speed, as this speed ties Timid BJ Magnemite and gives the team a secondary Fletchling check of your own Fletchling. This does limit Fletchling's ability to pivot into Knock Offs even more though, which for my play style was necessary.

    Threat List:
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]: Funnily, I barely deal with opposing Shellder. So yeah. Oops.

    [​IMG]: If it sets up, then you need it to miss, not be Zen Headbutt, or be a special. Generally I’ve avoided losing to it, but it’s pretty threatening.

    Bulk Up [​IMG]: Whittle it until Fletch can revenge kill it. Play around with Pumpkaboo to prevent it from recovering it via Drain Punch. Luckily Mienfoo runs High Jump Kick so it cannot 1v1 Mienfoo late game.

    Berry Juice [​IMG]: Awkward playing with Pumpkaboo, my own Magnemite, and Mienfoo. Somehow I beat it, though it is always risky. Overheat Fletchling can remove it too, but you need to be willing to take the gamble of them switching.

    Agility [​IMG]: Just wins, unless they are bad. Acrobatics does too little half the time. It's very rare though, and needs to set up to be a real issue, and it doesn't always get to set up. Normally I beat it by setting up before it does, but if it is BJ then that doesn’t work.

    Wall [​IMG]: Just by being on the opposing side, Porygon makes Shellder almost useless until it comes in once and is forced out. After that Porygon tends to do die to Icicle Spear before doing anything else. It's an odd game to play honestly.

    [​IMG]: A little to bulky for the team to deal with, especially considering how normally these teams that have Slowpoke are bulkier and have Defog which makes the game an uphill battle. Fortunately, Slowpokes are rare and are played predictably.

    Zen Headbutt[​IMG]: OHKOs Mienfoo; I just Life Orb stall it if it is 4 attack (and then lose) or kill it with Acrobatics if it runs Protect or Fletchling is preserved.

    [​IMG]: Ugly pokemon which nothing besides Fletchling can really kill. Access to Vacuum Wave means that I cannot just ignore it and sweep with Shellder as typically that does just enough to kill after the smash. NP sets can usually just sweep me if I let Fletch die.

    Niche things from the ladder and Merritty:

    Coba Berry, Moxie Dragon Dance[​IMG]: Man, I loved laddering. Fortunately it only feasible sets up on Magnemite. And it is also usually bad which helps. I’ve also seen this once in my 3 years of LC, but still fuck this.

    Stockpile[​IMG]: Irrelevant mon, but if it gets the chance to set up, and they stay a little lucky, it will out stall the team and win. Chances are if they’re using Shellos they are lucky, so have fun with that.

    Swords Dance pass to Choice Scarf[​IMG]: After just Stealth Rocks up, and Mienfoo Knocked Off and below 18 HP (this is not that uncommon nor hard to create) just sweeps the team if they are lucky enough to hit. Also only seen this once but hey it almost worked! Merritty is an insane dude.

    Importable:
    Conclusion:
    I’m pretty damn happy with the team. It was super good, pretty fun, and really punishing to most builds. The team capitalizes on Shellder’s potential, and the flaws are made up for with the offensive pressure exerted by the team. The team's ability to give yourself more room to breathe than you give your opponent was extremely difficult to surmount, and continues to be a challenge to handle despite metagame shifts. Crucially the team does not hinge on Shellder for success, but instead on your ability to adapt, and this makes it a great team. Moreover, trapping is not central theme to the team, but instead a side branch of the team that proves to strengthen the team’s synergy instead of being the crux of the offensive presence akin to most other builds. Both unique yet also very intune with the metagame, the team is partially responsible for both the rise of HJK Mienfoo and Shellder. And even despite a falling out of favor, I’d still be happy bring the team to tour matches versus unsuspecting opponents.

    Shoutouts (open)
    I don't really have much to say.
    Corporal Levi Shrug Thanks for being cool nerds with me and making me improve. I'll be around as long as you are tbh.
    Melon !!!!
    Mambo you'll always be fizz. but you're chill.
    Quote thanks for being an active tier leader; don't beat yourself up so much though, you're doing fine in all regards.
    macle bane. was a bad name tbh, hope you pick up your activity when we have shit to do.
    Coconut Oma trash Berks You're all cool people and fun to talk to. Oma be more active pls; trash I hope alls if well with you. Sken es guapo y malo. Coco teach me BW more sometime, it should be fun now. Berks uh, don't go on your mission too soon? Sorry dude but you're just great.
    Sam-testings glad you're around even if you're a weeb. play more in SuMo though, okay? ItzViper482 get a better name and play more for SuMo! H0W3AN same to you. The three of you are 'new' users for who I talk to but you're all good folks.
    Joltage talk more imo.
    tcr I think you're still around? If you are teach me bw instead since Coco is bad.
    ZoroarkForever I'm not sure if you're quitting or not, but you're both absurdly good at pokemon and just a cool dude. I don't even talk to you much but it's always a pleasure when I do.
    HeaLnDeaL I'll do cap stuff some day, but you should LC!
    Merritt you're a cool dude and make weird ass teams. nice to have you around still
    Nineage Vileman dsr95 oops I forgot about your shoutouts! guess that means you should be active more.

    OP :(
    Aerow
    zeriloa :(
    mad0ka :(
    Superpowerdude :(
    Eren Yeagar :(
    sparktrain :(
    Max Carvalho :(
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
    wishes, mad0ka, trash and 42 others like this.

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