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Feraligatr [QC 3/3!] [GP 3/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by zarator, Jan 5, 2012.

  1. zarator

    zarator Credits to Mos-Quitoxe for the cute sprite^^
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    [Overview]

    <p>When people look at Feraligatr they often see Sheer Force and little else. Since the coveted Dream World ability is unreleased, the Water-type starter is thus frequently shunned. However, this is only the result of a false impression. Contrary to popular belief, Feraligatr has a lot of potential even without Sheer Force, as his luck has blessed him with another really good ability in the form of Torrent. When combined with Swords Dance and the boost provided by Drizzle, Feraligatr can turn its initially underwhelming priority move, the 40 Base Power Aqua Jet, into a lethal weapon that can sweep unprepared teams.</p>

    <p>When you take into account that Feraligatr has access to several interesting coverage options, you'll realize that he needn't be jealous of the likes of Azumarill. Even in OU's merciless environment, this ferocious Water-type can turn the tide of the battle—often when the opponent least expects it.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Aqua Jet
    move 3: Superpower
    move 4: Ice Punch / Crunch
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is by far the best one Feraligatr can run in OU, and unlike most other Pokemon, it is actually more effective in practice than on paper. While Aqua Jet may seem like an insufficient STAB, its power in the rain is almost comparable to Scizor's Bullet Punch, and it goes above and beyond that once Torrent kicks in. You may think this is better said than done, but Feraligatr's surprising bulk allows him to set up much more comfortably than you could expect. He can take all sorts of hits, and possibly even activate Torrent in the process. The EV spread takes full advantage of this, investing heavily in its defenses while retaining the highest possible Attack.</p>

    <p>The coverage moves are there almost entirely for those walls that can take even a boosted Aqua Jet, making the lack of Speed a non-issue. Superpower packs a massive punch and easily breaks through Ferrothorn, Gastrodon, and Chansey among others; it can also be fired off unboosted to soften some threats, most notably Rotom-W. Ice Punch prevents Dragonite and Salamence from setting up on Feraligatr and also severely injures Tangrowth. Crunch, on the other hand, is the ideal choice for dealing with Jellicent, Reuniclus, and Slowbro.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The power behind Feraligatr's attacks goes far beyond what his "average" base 105 Attack may suggest, as shown by these calculations, all of which factor in a Swords Dance boost, Life Orb, Torrent, and rain:</p>

    <ul class="damage_calculations">
    <li>Aqua Jet vs 36/0 Haxorus 65% - 76%</li>
    <li>Aqua Jet vs 192/64 Reuniclus 101% - 120%</li>
    <li>Aqua Jet vs 4/0 Rotom-W 70% - 83%</li>
    <li>Aqua Jet vs 252/0 Scizor 105% - 123%</li>
    <li>Aqua Jet vs 252/0 Skarmory 81% - 96%</li>
    <li>Aqua Jet vs 4/0 Virizion 73% - 85%</li>
    <li>Ice Punch vs 252/0 Multiscale Dragonite 114% - 134%</li>
    <li>Ice Punch vs 252/252+ Tangrowth 61% - 72%</li>
    <li>Ice Punch vs 244/12 Toxicroak 76% - 90%</li>
    <li>Crunch vs 248/216+ Jellicent 99% - 117%</li>
    <li>Crunch vs 252/252+ Reuniclus 87% - 103%</li>
    <li>Crunch vs 252/252+ Slowbro 74% - 87%</li>
    <li>Superpower vs 252/252+ Eviolite Chansey 121% - 142%</li>
    <li>Superpower vs 252/88+ Ferrothorn 122% - 144%</li>
    <li>Superpower vs 252/0 Gastrodon 103% - 122%</li>
    </ul>

    <p>Once Torrent is activated, Aqua Jet obliterates anything that doesn't resist Water; even those that do are at risk should they fall below 70% of their max HP. The beauty of all this is that Feraligatr, unlike other Swords Dance sweepers, has no fear of being outsped. His base 78 Speed, even uninvested, allows him to get the jump on other common priority users, such as Conkeldurr and Scizor, allowing him to OHKO both with a boosted Aqua Jet. Even Trick Room Reuniclus, who can often turn the tables on most sweepers, is OHKOed by Aqua Jet alone. Meanwhile, Feraligatr's coverage moves OHKO just about all walls, putting most stall teams in a dangerous position. Naturally, you will often have to ditch either Ice Punch or Crunch, but until you reveal which moves you pack, the opponent is always at risk of losing their precious wall if he makes a wrong prediction.</p>

    <p>Getting into Torrent range is a big part of Feraligatr's performance. Luckily for him, though, his bulk allows him to weather most hits, even some super effective ones, and live with just enough HP to start a Torrent-boosted rampage. Here is a list of some common attacks that can bring him close to or into Torrent range:

    <ul class="damage_calculations">
    <li>Relaxed 0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip 66% - 78%</li>
    <li>Adamant 252 Atk Haxorus Outrage 63% - 75%</li>
    <li>Modest 252 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch 68% - 80%</li>
    <li>Adamant 252 Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn 51% - 60%</li>
    <li>Timid 252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Thunderbolt 71%-83%</li>
    <li>Bold 0 SpA Tangrowth Giga Drain 57% - 67%</li>
    </ul>

    <p>Naturally, some entry hazards can jeopardize all this bulk very easily, so a spinner is recommended. If Feraligatr is being used on a rain team, Tentacruel and Starmie are arguably the best choices. The former can also soak up Toxic Spikes, which is by far the most dangerous hazards for Feraligatr. The latter, on the contrary, packs an offensive presence which synergizes well with him.</p>

    <p>As far as offensive support goes, Politoed is recommended for the invaluable Drizzle. Additionally, depending on Feraligatr's coverage moves of choice, an answer to some threats might be necessary, too. If Ice Punch is chosen over Crunch, Jellicent and Slowbro become a problem. Rotom-W can take care of both, keeping the offensive momentum with Volt Switch in the process. If Crunch is preferred to Ice Punch, Dragonite and Tangrowth must be taken care of. Ferrothorn does a good job at checking the former, as the rain makes him virtually impervious even to Fire-type attacks, while Tentacruel can switch into the latter—especially if Tangrowth is Bold instead of Impish—and either dispatch it with Sludge Bomb or lay Toxic Spikes to cripple it later. Regardless of which coverage move is chosen, though, it is advisable to pack checks to Rotom-W and defensive Gyarados. Once again, Ferrothorn is a good choice, thanks to his resistances and ability to set up the entry hazards that bring most foes down into Aqua Jet's KO range, making Feraligatr's life much easier.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Dragon Dance could be used in conjunction with Waterfall, but Feraligatr would be much easier to revenge kill. In addition to lacking the bulk the Swords Dance set packs, he also faces severe competition from Gyarados. As with Azumarill, Choice Band can give him more immediate power and make him a better revenge killer. However, in this case, Crunch is recommended to make sure Azumarill doesn't outclass him.</p>

    <p>Feraligatr has also the bulk to effectively utilize his phazing options: Roar and Dragon Tail. The same can be said for Counter, especially as Feraligatr often survives unboosted physical hits. Avalanche has negative priority, but can be used over Ice Punch to put a larger dent into Dragonite and even Gyarados. Flail, if paired with Aqua Jet on a Substitute + Swords Dance set, will sweep unprepared teams, but Jellicent and Ferrothorn stop such a set cold. Shadow Claw is an option over Crunch to keep a neutral hit on Toxicroak but loses some crucial OHKOs. Finally, Low Kick lacks the negative effects of Superpower and still gets the job done against Ferrothorn. However, it should be noted that Superpower is much more reliable against special walls and Rotom-W.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>There are only a handful of Pokemon that can counter Feraligatr regardless of his coverage moves. A defensive Rotom-W is the safest choice, as it can take most hits and cripple Feraligatr with Will-O-Wisp before the latter can hit it with a boosted Superpower. Choice sets are harder to counter, as after its usual checks switch into Stealth Rock a few times, Feraligatr can pick them off with Aqua Jet. Quagsire is another good option, as Unaware prevents a boosted Feraligatr from getting out of control and Toxic whittles him down while Quagsire heals off damage with Recover. Defensive Gyarados variants can switch in safely and phaze Feraligatr with Dragon Tail or Roar. Offensive variants must be more careful if Stealth Rock is up, as Feraligatr can OHKO them with +3 Torrent-boosted Aqua Jet.</p>

    <p>If Feraligatr lacks Crunch, Jellicent can come in and cripple him with Will-O-Wisp, while healing any damage with Recover. Similarly, Slowbro walls him effortlessly and can proceed to bring him down with boosted Scalds. Without Ice Punch, Feraligatr is walled by Tangrowth, who takes nothing from his other attacks and can put Feraligatr to sleep with Sleep Powder or take Feraligatr out with his STAB attacks. However, neither of Tangrowth's STAB attacks will OHKO a full health Feraligatr. Dragonite is another safe bet if Ice Punch is not present, especially since ExtremeSpeed gets the jump on Aqua Jet. However, offensive sets can be brought down if Stealth Rock is up, and defensive sets can be actually set up on if they lack Dragon Tail. Salamence is in the same boat, except it has the more useful Intimidate as opposed to Multiscale.</p>

    <p>Faster Pokemon that resist Water-type moves, such as Latios, Starmie, and Virizion, might be able to revenge kill Feraligatr if they are at top health, but even a bit of residual damage put them in KO range of a boosted Aqua Jet. Bulk Up Toxicroak can attempt to stop Feraligatr if it is still healthy after it is switched in, as Swords Dance Toxicroak can be KOed by a Crunch followed by Superpower or by a +2 Ice Punch.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Sheer Force is an interesting addition to Feraligatr, as it gives a significant boost to the Dragon Dance set. In addition to boosting Waterfall, Crunch, and Ice Punch, this ability also negates Life Orb recoil when the aforementioned moves are used. However, without the Swords Dance set's defensive investment, Feraligatr will have a harder time setting up and will be more vulnerable to priority attacks—even Scizor will deal up to 30% with a Choice Band Bullet Punch. Therefore, the viability of Sheer Force over Torrent in OU is debatable.</p>
  2. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent how lonely is the night without the howl of the wolf
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    Wow... I had no idea Feraligatr could be this good in OU. Mabye mention in AC that since Feraligatr is vulnerable to all entry hazards, and how Toxic Spikes can put a timer on his sweep, that both Tentacruel and Starmie are good teammates. Tentacruel for the ability to lay down his own Toxic Spikes, and Starmie for providing far more offensive pressure on the opponent. I'm gonna try this bad boy out, really nice skeleton!
  3. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Wow. Not only did you pick the most unique Feraligatr set (a lot of them overlap with Gyarados) you also picked the set that actually works well in OU. The Ferrothorn, Jellicent and Reuniclus calcs are glorious.

    No nitpicks here!

    [​IMG]

    If i had a pancake.... Id eat it with butter.... Id eat it with syrup... Id eat it with a fork...

    QC APPROVED (1/3)
  4. cosbykid

    cosbykid

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    Nice set :). I tested it and I would like to add my 2 cents. I like it it can sweep late game especially in rain. I tested it and got mini sweeps a lot but he could never finish. I think that he needs more speed because he gets his shit rocked by faster pokemon who resist water mainly Rotom-W. Aqua JEt is very powerful even in the sun I took out half of a sun team with +2 aqua jet. I'm gonna be honest I kind of like the DD set better because it can actually finish the job.
  5. zarator

    zarator Credits to Mos-Quitoxe for the cute sprite^^
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    Effectively, I think Feraligatr is best used as a midgame sweeper, to break apart cores and leave room for something like Dragonite or Rotom-W to clean up lategame.

    EDIT: Also about the more speed, Rotom-W is often going to outspeed you anyway thanks to Choice Scarf, and while +2 LO Superpower actually kills defensive Rotom-W (at least 112 HP / 0 Def variants), I think 252 HP is the way to go, otherwise you're missing all those auspicious numbers in the defensive calcs.

    @Cherub: True, I'll add it

    @PK Gaming: thanks for the notes!
  6. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    Maybe give Waterfall a mention or a slash? Aqua Jet is pretty cool in the rain and all, but out of it, it is pretty weak. Waterfall lets you break walls down constantly, as +2 Waterfall does 55.09% - 64.97% to 252 HP / 232 Def Impish Skarmory out of the rain, (as well as a 50% chance to OHKO after SR in the rain).
  7. Aleva

    Aleva

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    Maybe mention Toxicroak as a counter, who resists all your move and can then set up bulk ups?
  8. zarator

    zarator Credits to Mos-Quitoxe for the cute sprite^^
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    The fact is that Aqua Jet is the crux of the set, and Waterfall would pretty much require another whole set - different EVs, different comments, etc. Moreover, I seriously question the viability of Waterfall over Aqua Jet. Sure, now you can kill Skarmory easier, however... Rotom-W revenge kills you with Scarf, Landorus revenge kills you, Terrakion revenge kills you, Tangrowth still walls you... etc etc. Of course this is assuming you still use Swords Dance as your set up move. Should you opt for Dragon Dance, I already explained it in the OO, and note that at +1, you're not breaking any of the key walls. As strange as it sounds, Aqua Jet as the main STAB is the way to go.

    @Alexa: 244 HP/12 Def Toxicroak takes 40.49% - 47.83%. It has a very hard time setting up, and is likely to come out of the fight crippled (assuming it manages to). 4 HP/0 Def Toxicroak is instead easily killed by +2 Crunch followed by +2 Superpower, even if it uses Drain Punch (which does only 42.78% - 50.80% and so fails to kill most likely). I agree on mentioning BU Toxicroak as a check, but SD Toxicroak is not worth it, despite the resistances.
  9. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    im not an avid OU player, but maybe AC low kick > superpower, most of the targets feraligatr will be hitting with low kick are heavy anyway, and you dont lose attack and defense, how much does it do to chansey?

    edit: it still 2hkoes chansey :) and assuming 60 power, has a chance of ohkoing blissey after rocks

    and if it tries to wish/protect stall you can always SD on the protect

    edit: yay GATR time got approved!
  10. xSlowkingx

    xSlowkingx

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    I honestly enjoy using the option of Dragon Dance on Feraligatr. Yes, it's not as powerful, but if u get rid of opponents priority users, you can pull of a sweep.

    This is the set I use:

    Feraligatr (F) @ Life Orb Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Waterfall
    - Ice Punch
    - Brick Break / Crunch
  11. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed "Smogon friends" is an oxymoron.
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    Sheer Force is not released, so we can't really determine the viability of the Sheer Force + Dragon Dance set yet. Using Torrent would mean massive competition with Gyarados, if you're going to point that out.
  12. zarator

    zarator Credits to Mos-Quitoxe for the cute sprite^^
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    With Low Kick you lose the OHKO on Ferrothorn (against whom Low Kick has 100 Base Power), on Gastrodon, and on Chansey itself. Not to mention you lose the possibility of heavily damaging predicted Rotom-W switch in (unboosted Superpower can do upwards 60% damage to Scarf variants). So I'd say Low Kick is OO material, rather than AC.
  13. AnyaAlstreim

    AnyaAlstreim

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    If I'm not mistaken, this is meant to be used in a drizzle team? If so, please state the advantages it has over Kabutops, who has a similar movepool, higher atk and swift swim, which allows it to use waterfall over aqua jet to compensate the lack of having torrent
  14. -Tsunami-

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    Drizzle + Swift Swim is banned, so that already doesn't work. This set doesn't have to be used on a rain team either...Kabutops lacks a Fighting-type move, so Ferrothorn will wall it to hell and back, unlike this set.
  15. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

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    Actually, Kabutops has Brick Break, but I suppose that's neither here nor there.
  16. Cherub Agent

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    actually, Kabutops also has both Superpower and Low Kick as well. You should really know better dude ;)
  17. zarator

    zarator Credits to Mos-Quitoxe for the cute sprite^^
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    Kabutops lacks two crucial feats of Feraligatr: bulkiness and Torrent.

    Even if Kabutops were to run a 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Def Adamant spread such as the one I proposed for Feraligatr, his defensive layout would be: 324 HP/247 Def/176 SpD. On the contrary, Feraligatr boasts: 374 HP/237 Def/202 SpD. The latter is bulkier, both on the physical and the special side - and the lack of Rock-type actually benefits him defensively, not making him weak to Fighting-type, Ground-type, and (overly) Grass-type attacks, while retaining the Steel-type resistance.

    And even if Kabutops has slightly higher Attack, he will never get the glorious damage rolls of Feraligatr because of the lack of Torrent. Moreover, even where the higher Atk may count (coverage moves), the difference is really negligible, as Feraligatr already OHKOes everything he needs to at +2.

    I don't see how Kabutops outclasses Feraligatr. Quite the contrary, if anything.
  18. malomyotismon

    malomyotismon

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    I have been testing out gatr on my team "gatorade" he work's really well, a real threat in the rain and it really confusThe bulky spread works a treat more often or not gatr gets in a swords dance and just either reaches or will reach the torrent boost fro a sweep you've set up for gatr and suddenly your opponents team of 4 become 1 + rage quit. Superpower has been essential on gatr sucesss on my team, the sheer amount of pokemon it simply brushes aside after a boost or even before is magic. Crunch has been been a bit of a mix, jellificent really is not that common any more and as the usage statistics demonstrate jelly is used 6.14% of the time, while ferro is 18.4% so the 2 only have the potential of pairing up 6.2% roughly of the time and it is very unlikely that the use of jelly = the use of jelly +ferro. While dragonite who is free to come in and set up against gatr and as you have stated dragonite is an issue as is salamence who will easily set up and proceed to ko gatr or pose a significant threat that would be more difficult for a team to cover than a less common combination of mons and rencilous? I feel overall ice punch might prove to be a better option for gatr to deal with more common dragonite (+ mence)than ferro + jelly (and rencilous) to cover for these threats and still has great coverage with stab water aqua jet. I just see a lot of nites comming in setting up in my face and i gotta a nite with a dd with potential multi scale set up in my face who i could nail with ice punch and aqua jet. I know the loss of crunch as you say makes you more like azumaril but tbh I do not feel it's worth letting the threat of dragonite set up on gatr on the switch is worth it, gatr is a boosting bulky tank/sweper, while azumaril is strictly pretty much confined to CB. Gatrs access to swords dance and faster speed, reduced predictability, greater flexability and greater seed to a lesser extent still really differentiate him from the aqua rabbit.

    What do you feel? I feel ice punch is a more solid choice over crunch and should be at the very least sahsed against crunch rather than an Honorable mention

    | 31 | Jellicent | 29025 | 6.140% | 24835 | 6.266% |
    | 5 | Ferrothorn | 87071 | 18.420% | 76543 | 19.312% |
    | 2 | Dragonite | 111047 | 23.493% | 89126 | 22.487% |
  19. AnyaAlstreim

    AnyaAlstreim

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    Ahh... Cant believe I forgot that.
  20. zarator

    zarator Credits to Mos-Quitoxe for the cute sprite^^
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    Effectively Jellicent has become a bit rare, while Dragonite is everywhere. I'll slash Ice Punch with Crunch then. I'll test it a bit more, then eventually I'll decide if it needs to be the first choice.

    EDIT: Made Ice Punch the first choice, waiting for more input over this now.
  21. fidgety

    fidgety

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    an Ev Spread of 44 HP / 252 Atk / 212 Spe Adamant allows it to one over those pokemon that try to 1 over Tar including things like Jellicent among other things though for that Crunch would be superior. while it severly cuts bulk you outspeed a huge number of pokemon that you would otherwise have to worry about nailing on the switch which isn't exactly a reliable science and you nail them at +2 as apposed to +0. so it does deserve a mention at the least.

    I like the set, though it is likely to get missed a lot due to Gatr being RU IIRC.
  22. zarator

    zarator Credits to Mos-Quitoxe for the cute sprite^^
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    Jellicent needs at least 148 Spe EVs to outpace min Feraligatr. I doubt many of them run such a Speed investment.
  23. FenixFire

    FenixFire

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    Original & powerful at the same time, I'd say this is a keeper on Rain teams. Love the well-researched & -written OP, finally someone who takes pride in it and goes the extra mile to explain it. Been testing it myself and although it ain't the next big thing, it's a nice change of pace that won't let you down against key threats I say.

    Keep up the amazing work!
  24. Luketastic

    Luketastic

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    This mean gator has always been one my favorites. I am glad somebody made good use of him in ou. I had no idea how strong he could get though. Thanks for the calculations.
  25. malomyotismon

    malomyotismon

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    Been testing out ice punch, it holds out pretty well, it certainly makes life easier for my team.

    It's basically been the case, the threats crunch gatr covered anyways were covered by the team perfectly in that regard. Gatr is no long set up bait for threatening sweepers such as nite, which the team then had to cope with. A greater harmony overall with the members 0of the team of might say.

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