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Ferroseed (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Aerrow, Oct 10, 2010.

  1. Aerrow

    Aerrow hunter
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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Ferroseed
    ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■
    [Overview]

    <p>Being the first Grass / Steel type Pokemon to grace the Little Cup Metagame, it possesses a number of unique, key characteristics that give Ferroseed high hopes. The first of these characteristics is its resistance-chart: an impressive 10 resistances, 1 immunity, and only 2 weaknesses greatly aids the Thorn Seed Pokemon in walling some of the most destructive sweepers in Little Cup. Couple this with amazing 91 base Defense and 86 base Special Defense stats, and you've got one of the best defensive Pokemon in LC. Furthermore, Ferroseed has a great "supporting" movepool including Spikes, Stealth Rock, and Thunder Wave.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Spiker
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Leech Seed / Stealth Rock / Thunder Wave
    move 3: Gyro Ball
    move 4: Protect / Bullet Seed
    nature: Sassy
    item: Oran Berry / Evolution Stone / Shed Shell
    evs: 84 HP / 36 Atk / 188 Def / 148 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Due to Ferroseed's massive defensive prowess and considerable bulk, along with access to moves like Spikes, Stealth Rock, and Leech Seed, it can effectively support its teammates in a variety of ways, ranging from breaking through defensive Pokemon to setting up the field for another Pokemon's sweep. Spikes is a staple on this set as it's more or less Tesshiido's "specialty" although if you feel Stealth Rock is a needed support, the second moveslot can be used to accommodate said move. However, the second moveslot can also be given to Leech Seed which is often necessary when using Ferroseed as it is its only way of regaining health;. Thunder Wave can also be used in the second moveslot to cripple Pokemon like Houndour, a common switch-in to Ferroseed. Gyro Ball is used mainly as a reliable STAB move to cause direct damage. In case Ferroseed gets taunted by an opposing Pokemon, Gyro Ball also takes advantage of Ferroseed's mediocre base Speed stat. Protect is the recommended move in the fourth moveslot as it allows Ferroseed to deal with the Hi Jump Kick users which it tends to attract; however, Bullet Seed can be used a secondary STAB move.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs recommended are geared towards making Ferroseed as bulky as possible, allowing it to take attacks on both the physical and special sides of the spectrum; a small EV investment has also been put into Attack to give Ferroseed's Gyro Ball (and Bullet Seed) slightly more power. A Sassy nature is recommended on this set, as its Special Defense is its weaker defensive side, and it'll often need the extra Special Defense when dealing with the commonly special based Fire-type attacks. On another note, a Sassy nature also lowers Ferroseed's speed, magnifying the power of Gyro Ball. Either an Oran Berry or an Evolution Stone are the recommended options as they increase Ferroseed's durability and longevity in a battle. A Shed Shell can be used if you fear being trapped by Magnemite. In terms of optional moves, Seed Bomb can be used on the set if you value the extra power; Toxic can also be used to help get past defensive Pokemon.</p>

    <p>Pokemon which benefit from Spikes and/or Stealth Rock support generally make the best partners to Ferroseed. Mantyke is an excellent example as it shares great synergy with Ferroseed and also benefits from the entry hazard support which breaks opponent's Pokemon's Focus Sashes. Other examples of decent partners include Dratini and Totodile which both need entry hazard support to secure useful KOes. Ferroseed has an excellent resistance chart, with only two weaknesses. Unfortunately, Ferroseed's two weaknesses, Fighting (x2) and Fire (x4) type attacks, are quite common in LC. Pokemon like Houndour and Machop are some of Ferroseed's worst nightmares.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>In terms of offensively-orientated options, Ferroseed doesn't have too many. It is really limited due to its mediocre base Speed and its less-than-average base Attack stat. A Curse set can be used as it acts as a reliable attack stat booster and the reductions to Ferroseed's Speed are inconsequential. Curse can be used in conjunction with Gyro Ball as the constantly lowering speed will make Gyro Ball a lot more powerful. Even taking Ferroseed's mediocre base Speed into account, Sub-Seed can be used as it focuses on Ferroseed’s defensive qualities while also having an offensive pivot. Similarly, the Rock Polish set is extremely situational due to Ferroseed's mediocre Speed. Lastly, Explosion can be used, allowing Ferroseed to go out with a "bang," although Explosion is a lot less intimidating this generation, and is not recommended.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Due to Ferroseed having an amazing 10 resistances, 1 immunity, and only 2 weaknesses, there's only a handful of Pokemon that can really "check" or "counter" it. Although they may have the moves (and STAB boost) required to bring down Ferroseed, the residual damage from the entry hazards may render the "counters" useless. Pokemon like Houndour, Machamp and Zuruggu are prime examples of Ferroseed's "counters" as they have the required STAB attacks and offensive base stat layouts to pose a threat, although all of them must be wary of switching repeatedly into a field strewn with Spikes and/or Stealth Rock. Pokemon like Houndour must also beware of switching into a predicted Thunder Wave, which will cripple it for the remainder of the battle. Other examples of such Pokemon include Darumaka, Timburr, Ponyta, and Mienfoo. Lastly, Magnemite poses to be a huge threat to Tesshiido (without a Shed Shell), as its ability, Magnet Pull, prevents Tesshiido from switching out, allowing Magnemite to comfortably destroy it with a super effective Hidden Power Fire.</p>
  2. Aerrow

    Aerrow hunter
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    This is done, format-wise.
  3. Dracoyoshi8

    Dracoyoshi8 weapon of mass seduction
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    Honestly, I find Bullet Seed to be way more useful than Seed Bomb. Bullet Seed now hase 25 Base Power, and most of the time hits 3 - 4 times. That means its either 5 Base Power short or 20 Base Power more than Seed Bomb. The reason why this is great is now Bullet Seed can break through Sash and Sturdy, as well as being an excellent Substitute. Moves that hit multiple times and have decent base power are always great in Little Cup, and Teshiido is one of, if not the best users of Bullet Seed. It definitely deserves a place on the set.
  4. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    I agree with this,
  5. Aerrow

    Aerrow hunter
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    Changes Made

    • Replaced Seed Bomb with Bullet Seed although Seed Bomb does get a mention in additional comments as an optional change due to its higher base power when compared to Bullet Seed.
  6. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
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    Maybe put a Sassy nature to reduce Speed and thus help Gyro Ball's damage?
  7. Aerrow

    Aerrow hunter
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    Thanks for the suggestion. I made the change.
  8. Kannon

    Kannon

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    I disagree on the points of using bullet seed and gyro ball. They are very unreliable and should be used by a dedicated sweeper pokemon who can make these moves work with a great/good payoff. Tesshiido is a defensive pokemon, and would prefer more reliable moves. The point isn't to inflict as much damage as possible, it's to support the team with spikes and stealth rock. for this reason I think that the attack move should be seed bomb, and the last slot should be thunder wave or leech seed to further support the team and itself.
  9. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    Gyro Ball: It is the strongest reliable STAB move he has (it has 10 base Speed)...I don't think your unreliable point holds much weight here.

    Bullet Seed: It has way more versatility than Seed Bomb since it can break Substitutes, and actually does more damage on average. The only drawback is that sometimes it does slightly less (if it hits 3 times, it's 5 BP less so it's not even a big deal).

    Tesshiido forces Pokemon out with its excellent typing and sets up. It makes a great check to many Pokemon with its STAB moves alone.
  10. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
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    Shouldn't a Sassy nature be used in conjunction with a 0 Speed IV to maximize the power of Gyro Ball?
  11. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
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    IIRC Tesshiido can't get Stealth Rock+Spikes+(Leech Seed/Seed Bomb/Bullet Seed). I think it can get two of the three via Cacturne or Torterra, but not all three. I could be wrong on this though.

    Also, if multi-hit moves stayed the same in this regard, they have a 3/8 chance of hitting both 2 or 3 times, and only a 1/8 chance of hitting 4 or 5 times. So really the chances of Bullet Seed being stronger than Seed Bomb are on average 1/4. It should probably still be mentioned for its ability to break Subs and beat Sturdy Pokemon (although the latter is unlikely as most Strudy pokes have Berry Juice/Oran Berry which will activate midway through).
  12. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Consider using Thunder Wave somewhere on the set- while it may reduce the effectiveness of Gyro Ball, dropping Paralysis onto something like Houndour as it switches in can be incredibly crippling, and allows Tesshiido to perform another facet of its supporting role. Maybe consider slashing it onto the second slot?
  13. Aerrow

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    I've updated the OP with the suggested changes.
  14. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    This need Evolution Stone as its main option.
  15. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

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    Only if it uses Leech Seed?

    obligatory "no more berry juice" line

    Why isn't Pururiru in T&C? Resists both of Tess' weaknesses, and Tessildo its.
  16. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    Doesn't Iron Head need a mention? Tesshido hits a minimum of 5 Speed; that means that anything lower than 16 Speed takes <80BP.
  17. Eo Ut Mortus

    Eo Ut Mortus Elodin Smells
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    I agree with Heysup on Evo Stone. I also think Leech Seed should be the first option - overloading one Pokemon with all your hazards is rarely a good idea and should only be considered if absolutely necessary. Additionally, Leech Seed is almost necessary on Teshiido, a defensive Pokemon without any recovery. Finally, I would slash Protect as the first option in the fourth slot. Teshiido is a superb user of Protect - for one, it has excellent synergy with Leech Seed; for another, Teshiido is a literal Hi Jump Kick magnet. One of my favorite strategies to abuse with Teshiido is to switch it in on Meditite Fake Out and then Protect on its Hi Jump Kick, which strips it of more than half of its health at the very least, possibly KOing it depending on Life Orb / weather / entry hazards. I don't think Explosion is that worthy of note, especially considering its nerf - I would mention it in set comments, if anything.
  18. idkidks

    idkidks

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    Tesshiido
    Name:Tank
    @Oran Berry / Evolution Stone / Shed Shell
    Nature:Careful
    -Stealth rock/Substitute/Spikes
    -Bullet seed/Seed Bomb
    -Ingrain/Leech Seed
    -Rock Polish
  19. Qwertyuiop

    Qwertyuiop

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    Why isn't Zuruggu listed in the Counters section? It's reasonably bulky, and can come in on something like Stealth Rock, use Dragon Dance and then kill Tesshiido with HJK/Drain Punch.
  20. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
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    agreed^

    and agree with Eo that Protect deserves a slash (over Explosion?)
    GOD EO ALL YOU DO IS SPAM PROTECT AHH!!
  21. sax king

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    I agree with Iron Head over Gyro Ball. The Speed differences in LC aren't too great or noticeable, so Gyro Ball really isn't too powerful. As Ice Eyes said, the pokemon needs at least 17 speed in order for Gyro Ball to be powerful. A lot of pokemon just don't have this kind of speed. For example, Croagunk is hit much harder by Iron Head than by Gyro Ball. Sure, Gyro Ball is great against pokemon like Diglett, but Iron Head is more reliable.

    I also second the Protect thing. It is a huge HJK magnet, and this can help it lure in and counter pokemon like Meditite. It works well in conjunction with Leech Seed, and possibly even Toxic. Explosion really isn't that powerful anyway, and it's not worth killing Tesshiido over.
  22. (makeup)

    (makeup) kevin
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    I totally agree with sax king, plus, it makes better use of Thunder Wave
  23. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    Explosion sucks this Gen....tbh. I'd keep it in AC.
  24. Aerrow

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    Updated.
  25. Zephyr

    Zephyr Life Stream
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    Quality Control 1/2

    [​IMG]


    I think that about sums Tesshiido up.

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