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Ferroseed (BW2 Revamp) [QC: 3/3] [GP: 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Electrolyte, Apr 20, 2013.

  1. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte For every king that died, oh, they would crown another
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    [​IMG]
    spiky

    blaraprooved (open)

    Electrolyte: speaking of analyses reservations
    17:03Electrolyte: I want to do Ferroseed
    17:03elevator_music: ok
    17:03elevator_music: he's fine
    17:03Electrolyte: I'll do it after Ducklett
    17:03elevator_music: (charmander)
    17:03blarajan: you can do that as well if he's not reserved
    17:03Electrolyte: ok thanks


    Not-revamp-stuff (open)
    Primary QC checks: [2/2] [Hawkstar, Elevator Music]
    Secondary QC check: [1/1] [Charmander]
    GP checks: [2/2] [melvni, NixHex]

    Things to Work on:
    ~Writing up Skeleton [DONE]
    ~Getting 2 QC Checks [DONE]
    ~Writing [DONE]
    ~Final QC Check [DONE]
    ~Getting 2 GP Checks [DONE]
    ~FINISH []

    Issues:
    ~I made Leech Seed move 2 because it's a bit more important than Stealth Rock, which most teams already carry a setter of. IMO Leech Seed / TWave is quite a lot more important than a support move that is commonly and easily covered by teammates. It would be cool if QC could weigh in on that.
    ~Removed Shed Shell from AC. Magnemite is not common enough to warrant an item that is totally useless everywhere else.
    ~Removed a lot of clutter from OO and C&C. Rest is bad because you're useless as you sleep. Removed mention of rain Pokemon as counters because they aren't.



    [OVERVIEW]

    <p>With outstanding defensive stats, a unique defensive typing, and a wide array of support moves, Ferroseed has absolutely everything it needs to stand out as a bulky wall while playing a supporting role. It has outstanding base 44 / 91 / 86 defenses, letting it take on many top tier threats without a sweat. Ferroseed boasts ten resistances, including many to common attack types such as Water, Electric, Rock, Ghost, and Psychic, making it even tougher to take down. Ferroseed also has a fantastic support movepool, with both types of common entry hazards, Leech Seed, and Thunder Wave, making it one of the best support Pokemon in the Little Cup metagame. However, all of this comes with a few weaknesses that do stand out. It has a 2x weakness to Fighting and a crippling 4x weakness to Fire-type moves, making it weak to many common attackers, such as Mienfoo and Scraggy. Ferroseed also lacks an offensive presence and is often setup bait for opponents who have high defenses or good resistances. Still, because of its outstanding bulk and support movepool, it should be considered for every team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Support
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Leech Seed / Thunder Wave
    move 3: Stealth Rock / Protect
    move 4: Gyro Ball / Bullet Seed
    item: eviolite
    nature: Relaxed / Impish
    evs: 164 HP / 188 Def / 148 SpD
    ivs: 0 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>As one of the few reliable Spikers in LC, Ferroseed can use its monstrous bulk and excellent resistances to set up entry hazards against many common opponents. Ferroseed's flagship set takes advantage of its bulk and support movepool, making it a supporting machine. With an Eviolite, Ferroseed reaches an outstanding 22 / 28 / 25 defenses. It also has a variety of resistances and a neat ability in Iron Barbs, which punishes physical attackers and spinners, making it a solid defensive wall. Ferroseed also has access to Leech Seed, which not only heals itself and makes it even tougher to take down but also steadily damages its opponents, providing further residual damage. Thunder Wave can also be used in the second slot to cripple opponents and is especially useful for preventing Ferroseed from being setup upon. Stealth Rock, which will provide its team with further entry hazards and a way to discourage Fire-types from switching in, is the primary option in the third slot. However, if Stealth Rock is already covered by a teammate, Protect is an alternative, letting Ferroseed scout its opponents' moves and stall with Leech Seed, status, or sandstorm. An attacking move is recommended for the second slot so Ferroseed can avoid being setup bait and vulnerable to Taunt. Gyro Ball hits faster opponents such as Choice Scarf Murkrow, Misdreavus, Drilbur, Snover, and Abra quite hard, while Bullet Seed gets past Substitutes while also hitting Water-, Ground-, and Rock-types for decent amounts of damage. Bullet Seed also hits most common spinners for super effective damage, making spinning against Ferroseed an even riskier task.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The listed EV spread gives Ferroseed as much physical bulk as possible and maximizes its HP stat. The remaining EVs are then put into Special Defense for added special bulk. 0 Speed IVs and a negative Speed nature make Ferroseed as slow as possible to power up its Gyro Ball. However, if one chooses not to use Gyro Ball, an Impish nature with 31 Speed IVs should be used as minimal Speed is no longer necessary and the extra Speed could help Ferroseed outspeed certain opponents. The 36 remaining EVs should also then be put into Speed if one does not use Gyro Ball. Seed Bomb is a possible replacement attack for the fourth slot, but Gyro Ball is a more consistent STAB move, and Bullet Seed hits past Substitute and occasionally has higher damage rolls.</p>

    <p>Because of its unique typing and plethora of resistances, Ferroseed pairs well defensively with many other Pokemon in Little Cup. Frillish is a great partner, as it can deal with Fire- and Fighting-types easily and can prevent Rapid Spinners from erasing Ferroseed's entry hazards. It can also add status or Taunt to help the stalling effort. Chinchou also pairs well with Ferroseed, as it can absorb Fire-type attacks and force switches to rack up entry hazard damage. Pokemon that appreciate entry hazards and Leech Seed support also work well with Ferroseed. Offensive Murkrow, Nasty Plot Misdreavus, Swords Dance Drilbur, and Mienfoo are all great offensive partners, as they appreciate having their walls weakened into 2HKO or 3HKO range. Shell Smash users, such as Clamperl, Tirtouga, and Omanyte, are also good partners with Ferroseed, as they can set up against Fire-type opponents and benefit from the entry hazards it provides as well.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Other than the listed set, Ferroseed doesn't have very much to choose from. It can run an offensive set with Curse and Gyro Ball, but it lacks recovery to help it heal off damage it takes while setting up, making this unreliable. It can run Toxic on the support set to cripple opponents even further, but that takes up the slot of a more valuable support move or attack. A SubSeed set is possible, but is outclassed by other Grass-types, such as Cottonee.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Due to Ferroseed's high amount of bulk and numerous resistances, it is not easy to take it down. There are two main ways to defeat Ferroseed. The best way to handle it is to prevent it from supporting its team. Natu is Ferroseed's worst nightmare; it reflects back all of Ferroseed's attempts to set up and inflict status, heals off any attacks with Roost, and can wear it down with Hidden Power Flying. Pokemon that carry Taunt also do a good job at shutting Ferroseed down. Misdreavus and Murkrow can both Taunt Ferroseed, shrug off any attack, and KO back with Hidden Power Fighting and Heat Wave, respectively. Vullaby is another good Taunt user who doesn't mind Ferroseed's attacks and can remove Ferroseed's Eviolite via Knock Off, making it much easier for teammates to take it down. Another way to defeat Ferroseed is to hit it with powerful, super effective Fighting- or Fire-type attacks. Fighting-types are great answers to Ferroseed, as many carry Drain Punch, which can heal off any residual damage accumulated. Mienfoo gets a special mention as it can shrug off entry hazards with Regenerator and U-turn. Scraggy is also a great counter because it can set up against Ferroseed and shrug off status with Shed Skin. Fire-types can fry Ferroseed and OHKO it with their STABs, but they don't like Stealth Rock. Larvesta, Ponyta, and Houndour can all defeat Ferroseed with their Fire-type STABs or force it out. Magnemite is also a solid counter; it can trap and OHKO Ferroseed with Hidden Power Fire and it doesn't mind Gyro Ball or Bullet Seed.</p>
  2. Hawkstar

    Hawkstar Unplug me from this fantasy
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    Mention how Bullet Seed/Seed Bomb hits the two best spinners (Staryu and Drilbur) for SE damage, making spinning against Ferroseed a suicidal task.

    Remove the mention of Oran Berry as a viable item. Ferroseed really, really needs Eviolite to function, and unlike stuff like Bronzor that sometimes use Oran, it has a good healing move in Leech Seed that can sop up damage. Without that Eviolite, random Fire moves like Grimer's Fire Punch and Snover's HP Fire OHKO all the time, rather than being a 2HKO.

    Also, Vullaby should be listed as a counter, since it boasts all of Taunt, Knock Off, and not caring about Ferroseed's attacks.

    Great stuff as always Electrolyte!

    [qc]1/2[/qc]
  3. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
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    Make those changes and you should be all good.

    [qc]2/2[/qc]
  4. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte For every king that died, oh, they would crown another
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    This is written and ready for one final QC check.
  5. Charmander

    Charmander mfw i have a mane and am actually the sun
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    [qc]3/3[/qc]
  6. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte For every king that died, oh, they would crown another
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    Thanks Charmander!

    This is ready for GP
  7. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
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    Hihi, amateur check.

    Additions are Blue
    Removes are Red.

    Nothing much, really, in the set comments, I moved the sentence about the third moveslot, since it should really be paired with that statement, rather than just randoming showing up at the end. Also deleted the crit portion; that's not what Bullet Punch is for (although it is nice).

    Amateur Check (open)
  8. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte For every king that died, oh, they would crown another
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    Made Governess's changes. If a member of the GP team could stamp that check, that would be cool. This still needs two stamps, however.
  9. blarajan

    blarajan i was born under the same star as shakeitup
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    I really can't figure out why the main spread isn't: 164 HP / 188 Def / 148 SpD, Relaxed. I really don't know why you're adding to attack when you can get another HP point.
  10. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte For every king that died, oh, they would crown another
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    Oh, nice catch blarajan. The extra 36 Atk don't actually do anything to improve damage rolls. I've edited it in.

    Still open for GP checks.
  11. melvni

    melvni
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    GP check. Good job on writing this.
    Additions in Blue
    Subtractions in Red
    Comments in Purple

    Show Hide
    [OVERVIEW]

    <p>With outstanding defensive stats, a unique defensive typing, and a wide array of support moves, Ferroseed has absolutely everything it needs to stand out as a bulky wall while playing a supporting role. It has an outstanding 44 / 91 / 86 defensive spread, letting it take on many top tier threats without a sweat. Ferroseed boasts ten resistances (add comma) including many to common attack types, (remove comma) such as a resistance to Water-, Electric-, Ghost-, Rock-, and Psychic-type attacks Water, Electric, Ghost, Rock, and Psychic, making the little Dorian fruit it even tougher to take down. Ferroseed also has a fantastic support movepool, with both types of common entry hazards, Leech Seed, and Thunder Wave, making it one of the best support Pokemon in the Little Cup metagame. However, all of this comes with a few weaknesses that do stand out. It has a 2x weakness to Fighting and a crippling 4x weakness to Fire-type moves, making it weak to many common attackers, such as Mienfoo or and Scraggy. Ferroseed also lacks an offensive presence, (remove comma) and is often setup bait for opponents who have high defenses or good resistances. Still, because of its outstanding bulk and support movepool, it should be considered on for every team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Support
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Leech Seed / Thunder Wave
    move 3: Stealth Rock / Protect
    move 4: Gyro Ball / Bullet Seed
    item: eviolite
    nature: Relaxed / Impish
    evs: 164 HP / 188 Def / 148 SpD
    ivs: 0 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>As one of the few reliable Spikers in LC, Ferroseed can use its monstrous bulk and excellent resistances to set up entry hazards against many common opponents. Ferroseed's flagship set takes advantage of its bulk and support movepool, making Ferroseed it a supporting machine. With an Eviolite, Ferroseed reaches 22 / 28 / 25 defenses, which is outstanding for an LC Pokemon. It also has a variety of resistances and a neat ability in Iron Barbs, which punishes physical attackers and spinners, making it a solid defensive wall. Ferroseed also has access to Leech Seed, which it should carry in the second slot. Leech Seed not only heals itself and makes it even tougher to take down, (remove comma) but also steadily damages its opponents, providing further residual damage. Thunder Wave can also be used in the second slot to cripple opponents, (remove comma) and is especially useful at for preventing Ferroseed from being setup upon. Stealth Rock, which will provide its team with further entry hazards and a way to discourage Fire-types from switching in, should be used is the primary option in the third slot. If However, if Stealth Rock is already covered by a teammate, Protect is an alternative for the third slot, letting Ferroseed scout its opponents' moves and stall with Leech Seed, status, or sandstorm. The last slot recommends an attacking move An attacking move is recommended in the last slot so Ferroseed can avoid being setup bait and vulnerable to Taunt. Gyro Ball hits faster opponents such as ScarfKrow Choice Scarf Murkrow, Misdreavus, Drilbur, Snover, and Abra quite hard, while Bullet Seed gets past Substitutes while also hitting Water-, Ground-, and Rock-types for decent amounts of damage. Bullet Seed also hits most common spinners for super effetive effective damage, making spinning against Ferroseed an even riskier task.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The listed EV spread gives Ferroseed as much physical bulk as possible and maximizes its HP stat. The remaining EVs are then put into Special Defense for added special bulk. 0 Speed IVs and a negative Speed nature make Ferroseed as slow as possible to power up its Gyro Ball. However, if one chooses not to use Gyro Ball, an Impish nature with 31 Speed IVs can should be used as minimal speed Speed is no longer necessary and the extra Speed could help it Ferroseed outspeed certain opponents. The 36 remaining EVs can also then be put into Speed if one does not use Gyro Ball. Seed Bomb is a possible replacement attack for the fourth slot, but Gyro Ball is a more consistent STAB move, and Bullet Seed hits past Substitute and occasionally has higher damage rolls.</p>

    <p>Because of its unique typing and plethora of resistances, Ferroseed pairs well defensively with many other Pokemon in Little Cup. Frillish is a great partner for Ferroseed, as it can deal with Fire- and Fighting-types easily and can prevent Rapid Spinners from erasing Ferroseed's entry hazards. It can also add status or Taunt to help the stalling effort. Chinchou also pairs well with Ferroseed, as it can absorb Fire-type attacks and force switches to rack up entry hazard damage. Pokemon that appreciate entry hazards and Leech Seed support also work well with Ferroseed. Offensive Murkrow, Nasty Plot Misdreavus, Swords Dance Drilbur, and Mienfoo are all great offensive partners, as they appreciate having their walls weakened into 2HKO or 3HKO range. Shell Smashers Smash users, such as Clamperl, Tirtouga, or and Omanyte, are also good partners with Ferroseed, as they can set up against Fire-type opponents and benefit from the entry hazards it provides as well.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Other than the listed set, Ferroseed doesn't have very many other selections much to choose from. It can run an offensive set with Curse and Gyro Ball, but it lacks recovery to help it heal off damage it takes while setting up, making it this unreliable. It can run Toxic on the support set to cripple opponents even further, but that takes up the slot of a more valuable support move or coverage attack. A SubSeed set is possible, but is outclassed by other Grass-types, such as Cottonee.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Due to Ferroseed's high amount of bulk and numerous resistances, it is not easy to take it down. There are two main ways to defeat Ferroseed. The best way to handle it is to prevent it from supporting its team. Natu is Ferroseed's worst nightmare; it reflects back all of Ferroseed's hard work attempts to set up and inflict status (I'm suggesting this because hard work seemed more like it was reflecting hazards and stuff that was already up), heals off any attacks with Roost, and can wear Ferroseed it down with Hidden Power Flying. Pokemon that carry Taunt also do a good job at shutting Ferroseed down. Misdreavus and Murkrow can both Taunt Ferroseed, shrug off any attack, and KO back with Hidden Power Fighting and Heat Wave, respectively. Vullaby is also another good Taunt user who doesn't mind Ferroseed's attacks and can remove Ferroseed's Eviolite via Knock Off, making it much easier for teammates to take it down. Another way to defeat Ferroseed is to hit it with powerful, super effective Fighting- or Fire-type attacks. Fighting-types are great answers to Ferroseed, as many carry Drain Punch, which can heal off any residual damage accumulated. Mienfoo gets a special mention since as it can shrug off entry hazards with Regenerator and U-turn. Scraggy is also a great counter because it can set up against Ferroseed and shrug off status with Shed Skin. Fire-types can fry Ferroseed and OHKO it with their STABs, but they don't like Stealth Rock. Larvesta, Ponyta, and Houndour can all defeat Ferroseed with their Fire-type STABs or force it out. Magnemite is also a solid counter; it can trap and OHKO Ferroseed with Hidden Power Fire and it doesn't mind Gyro Ball or Bullet Seed.</p>


    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  12. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte For every king that died, oh, they would crown another
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    Thanks for the stamp, melvni! Just one more check and this is ready to roll~
  13. NixHex

    NixHex A new vice president erryonce in a while to keep me busy
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    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  14. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte For every king that died, oh, they would crown another
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    Yay this is DONE
  15. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
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