Ferrothorn (Analysis)

I wrote up my "own" Nattorei analysis, with some comments. The set is somewhat of a physical-wall combined with late-game Curse sweeper. It's rather specific, but I had a lot to share. I'll copy and paste some here (they're still a bit exclusive to the set mentioned, but anyways):


Some moves I'm not fond of:

T-wave
This defeats the nature of this [Link] set, allowing less opportunity for the opponents to be hurt by their own contact moves, and slows them down which lessens the power of Gyro Ball.

Protect
Nearly the same reasons as above, although more useful if Leech Seed is already set up.

Power Whip
Although powerful, it lacks accuracy and Gyro Ball is by far a better offensive option. Regardless, it still has many opportunities to be extremely useful, especially with bulky waters.

Stealth Rock
Because Nattorei can sit around for so long in the correct circumstances, Spikes is more opportune.
As for comments, my main issue is the lack of elaboration on taking advantage of Iron Thorns. I am not certain I even see a mention. Although it's unusual to encourage the opponent to attack, situationally, Nattorei may cause a huge advantage in tandem with its ability.
As for items, I agree with the mention of Rugged Helmet. I have not tested Occa Berry, but if it really benefits Nattorei it could have a huge advantage against its typically brutal counters. Also, I would highly encourage more focus on defense as opposed to special defense, again due to its ability.
Also, I feel like there should be some mention of its potential as a switch-in or counter, if it is not too early. There is also potential of it being a Trick Room sweeper.

As for why you left out Curse: The set I talk about elaborates more specifically, but in general, Nattorei's first move should be Leech Seed and/or other assistance moves -- if a potential wall/counter switches in, he could be switched out as soon as possible to an appropriate counter while still placing some sort of threat to the opponent. Nattorei is very vulnerable to switching out, but that is inherent and should be circumvented and acknowledge as opposed to trying to be resolved half-way. It's similar to how Blissey can't actually physically wall.

As for EVs: The focus in any sort of set should include some HP and Attack. Personally, I highly prefer and suggest more defense than special defense due to the specifics of what it can take and what will OHKO it.

For Metagame comments, one must be wary of the huge about of Special Fire running around. The most notable is Shandeera, but with all the new Steel and Grass types running around, they are bound to be everywhere. I agree with the pair-up, especially with Heatran.


Pardon how unorganized this post is; I edit it as my thoughts come to me.
 
I'd like to see Rugged Helmet mentioned somewhere in Additional Comments on the first set. I've been using it a lot lately, and it has been working out nicely. Like TransparentOpacity stated, your opponent will be taking 25% damage (add Iron Barbs into the equation and they'll be taking even more) after you're hit with a physical move. This damage can add up very, very quickly, especially against Rapid Spinners like Tentacruel and Hitmontop, both of who will try to get rid of your precious entry hazards. Other than that, this looks great, good job!

I would like to second this. Rugget Helmet is really, REALLY good, especially if you manage to switch into something like Outrage. I've KO'd many a Garchomp simply by switching into their Outrage, and laughing as they take 2-3 turns of Iron Barbs + Rugget Helmet damage. That's just one specific example, but with such great defenses and all those resistances, this works pretty well. Obviously if you're playing in an environment where Shadow Tag Chandelure is allowed, then Shed Shell is still better.

Also, for the EV spread, the one I usually use is Sassy nature and 252 HP/160 Def/96 SpD, which gives me defenses of 352 HP, 338 Def, and 321 SpD, meaning it can tank hits well from both ends of the spectrum.

Maybe just worth a mention in optional changes if you're looking for a mixed wall. If not, feel free to ignore. =)
 
Unofficial [attempt at a] GP Check here. Tobes McGobes already did a lot of what I would have changed, so there isn't much I could find.

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Ferrothorn

QC Approved (Iconic, Bloo, Pk Gaming)

**Will change all Japanses names to English... Later...

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[Overview]

<p>With B/WGeneration V bringing a plethora of offensively-inclined threats into the metagame, Ferrothorn remains an exception to the rule, holding its ground against many of the most threatening Pokemon seen in competitive play. Great defensive- typing, above-average- stats, and a killer support movepool make him a valuable asset to both offensive and defensive teams alike. The cabaility of checking so many threats at once, including, but not limited to, Latios, Gengar, and nearly every Water-type in existence allows Ferrothorn many opportunities to switch in and either set up entry hazards or retaliate with either of its two powerful STAB moves. Much like any other Pokemon, Ferrothorn does have its drawbacks(Such as?), but with the right team support, Ferrothorn will rarely disappointalmost always perform well.</p>

[SET]
name: Standard
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Leech Seed / Stealth Rock
move 3: Gyro Ball / Protect / Thunder Wave
move 4: Power Whip / Protect
nature: Relaxed
item: Leftovers / Shed Shell
evs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpDef
ivs: 0 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set is Ferrothorn's standard fare, and is what it will be running the majority of the time. Spikes work excellently on Ferrothorn, giving it something to do whenafter switching in on an opponent that can't touch him. Leech Seed is also a very effective move, useful for preventing opposing Pokemon from setting up for freeon it, while at the same time providing self-healing. Gyro Ball and Power Whip are Ferrothorn's best attacking options, hitting the majority of the standard metagame for at least neutral damage. However, because Ferrothorn's Attack stat is less than impressive without any investment, Protect is an appealing alternative over either move, as it is useful not only for scouting, but for racking up Leech Seed and Leftovers recovery as well. Gyro Ball and Power Whip each have their own merits; the former is more useful against faster threats, most notably Dragon-types and Gengar, while the latter is more usfuluseful against Water-types and slow Pokemon, such as Reuniclus.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>In addition to the moves listed, two other viable options in Ferrothorn's movepool are Stealth Rock and Thunder Wave. While Ferrothorn is typically better- suited for setting up Spikes, Stealth Rock can be used if Ferrothornit(Just a suggestion; you're saying 'Ferrothorn' an awful lot) is being used with another Spikes user. Stealth Rock can also be used over Leech Seed, although this means Ferrothorn is left without any means of recovery outside of Leftovers. Thunder Wave, whiledespite having poor synergy with Gyro Ball, allows Ferrothorn to cripple many of its common counters, such as Blaziken and Hydreigon, although it can be difficult to find an open moveslot for it. As a final additional option, Ferrothorn can use Shed Shell in order to escape from Magnezone and Wobbuffet, although this means that Ferrothorn loses out on valuable Leftovers recovery.</p>

<p>Ferrothorn can be EVed in many different ways, depending on how defensive it needs to be on each side of the damage spectrum. The given EV spread balances Ferrothorn's Defense and Special Defense, with a slight emphasis on Defense; this spreadwhich allows Ferrothorn to fare better against threats such as Excadrill, Landorus, Haxorus, Gyarados, and some Scizor. However, a Sassy nature can be used in order to take hits from the likes of Latios, Starmie, and Gengar even better. EV investment can be adapted as seen fit depending on what Ferrothorn is typically depended on to switch into more often. Finally, while not required, NattoreiFerrothorn can often benefit from some investment in Attack in order to inflict more damage to foes, such as Landorus. Anywhere between 40 and 252 EVs can be used, however keep in mind that too much investment severely detracts from Nattorei'sFerrothorn's survivability.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Gyro Ball
move 2: Power Whip
move 3: Level Ground
move 4: Spikes / Explosion
nature: Brave
item: Choice Band
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpDef
ivs: 0 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While this set may appear to be a gimmick at first, it is quite far from it. Ferrothorn may lack a large offensive movepool, but its two extremely powerful STAB- moves in Gyro Ball and Power Whip backed by a respectable base Attack of 9494 Attack stat meanshow that this set is not to be underestimated. Steel- and Grass-type attacks have surprisingly good coverage together, only being reisisted by a handful of common threats, most of which possess either Steel- or Fire-typing. While Level Ground may have a paltry base power of 60, it hits many of the Pokemon that resist Ferrothorn's STAB- moves for a large amount of damage. The last moveslot is largely filler; Spikes isn't the best move to be locked into, but can be useful in certain situations. Explosion's high base power, on the other hand, is very appealing, but comes at the cost of Ferrothorn's life, and is not much more powerful than Ferrothorn's STAB-moves.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The reason why this set is so effective is the combination of Ferrothorn's bulk, typing, and surprising power when weilding a Choice BandThis set is so effective because of Ferrothorn's surprising power when it wields a Choice Band in tandem with its useful bulk and typing. Because many players expect Ferrothorn to simply set up Spikes or use Leech Seed in order to recover, it is typically unlikely for the opponent to switch in a Pokemon capable of withstanding all of Ferrothorn's attacks. Here are some damage calculations to show how powerful this set is, assuming a Brave nature and 0 Speed IVs.</p>

<ul class="damage_calculation">
<li>Gyro Ball vs. 4/0 Garchomp: 94.1% - 110.9%</li>
<li>Gyro Ball (-1) vs. 0/0 Salamence: 77.9% - 91.8%</li>
<li>Gyro Ball vs. 4/0 Thundurus: 72% - 84.7%</li>
<li>Gyro Ball vs. 252/4 Deoxys-S: 115.5% - 136.2%</li>
<li>Gyro Ball vs. 252/184+ Gliscor: 58.8% - 69.5%</li>
<li>Power Whip vs. 4/0 Excadrill: 107.73% - 126.80%</li>
<li>Power Whip vs. 252/0 Conkeldurr: 65.2% - 76.8%</li>
<li>Power Whip vs. 192/64 Reuniclus: 73.6% - 86.8%</li>
<li>Power Whip vs. 252/252+ Reuniclus: 52.6% - 62.3%</li>
<li>Power Whip vs. 252/252+ Suicune: 83.7% - 98.5%</li>
<li>Power Whip vs. 252/252+ Hippowdon: 79% - 93.3%</li>
<li>Level Ground vs. 4/0 Heatran: 69.1% - 81.5%</li>
<li>Level Ground vs. 40/0 Magnezone: 70.1% - 83.8%</li>
<li>Explosion vs. 192/64 Zapdos: 80.8% - 95.1%</li>
</ul>

<p>Despite the lack of investment in Ferrothorn's defenses, maximizing Ferrothorn's HP investment still provides it with plenty of bulk. In fact, Ferrothorn's bulk in combination with its great defensive- typing is one of his main selling points over other Choice Band users, such as Terrakion, Garchomp, and Scizor, as Ferrothorn will often take multiple hits before going down. Unfortunately, there are several common Pokemon that Choice Band Ferrothorn struggles with,: primarily Scizor, Skarmory, Bronzong, Zapdos, and opposing Ferrothorn. For this reason, it is wise to pair Ferrothorn up with a Fire-type;. Not only do they have good synergy, but a Fire-type such as Heatran or Blaziken is capable of switching in on many of the Pokemon that give this set trouble.</p>

[Team Options]

<p>Thanks to Ferrothorn's great defensive- typing, it is one of the easiest Pokemon to make a defensive core with. Jellicent is one of the best options, as together they either resist or are immune to every attacking- type in the game, with the exception of Ground. In addition, Jellicent is capable of blocking attempts to spin away the hazards that Ferrothorn sets up. Fire-types in general also make great teammates to Ferrothorn, as not only do they resist Ferrothorn's biggest weakness, but they also scare off many of the Pokemon that give Ferrothorn problems, such as Skarmory, Scizor, and some Jirachi. Water-types also generally have good synergy with Ferrothorn, particularly those that also possess a resistance to Fighting-type moves, such as Gyarados and Tentacruel.</p>

<p>On the subject of Fighting-type moves, Pokemon that can counter the Fighting-types that often trouble Ferrothorn can also prove to make invaluable teammates. Gliscor and Reuniclus are both good choices; Gliscor is capable of defeating nearly all Fighting-types, with the exception of those who carry Ice-type moves specifically for himto counter it, while Reuniclus can set up Trick Room which Ferrothorn can potentially take advantage of. Reuniclus also benefits from the entry hazards that Ferrothorn can lay down, even moreso than most other sweepers.</p>

<p>Ferrothorn is also often compared to Forretress when competing for a team slot. This is not surprising;, as both Pokemon possess a similar typing, while also having access to Spikes. Forretress also has better Defense while Ferrothorn has superior Special Defense. In general, the team slot will go to whichever the team needs more: Forretress'sForretress' access to Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin, or Ferrothorn's superior resistances and Special Defense. Regardless, one should consider Forretress before deciding to use Ferrothorn on a team.</p>

[Optional Changes]

<p>Two of the most noteworthy moves not mentioned above are Curse and Gravity. Curse is a viable set-up move for Ferrothorn, allowing it to boost its Attack to dangerous levels while increasing its Defense through the roof simultaniouslysimultaneously. However, Ferrothorn is still vulnerable to Fire-type attacks, and will be OHKOed by many of them, so this set requires a great deal of team support. Gravity, on the other hand, allows Ferrothron to act as a defensive pivot on a Gravity-based team, although Gravity is generally considered a gimmicky strategy.</p>

<p>For individual sets, the standard set does not have many other options available aside from Stealth Rock and Toxic. Stealth Rock is only reccommended if there is no teammate that can set up Stealth Rock as effectively, as Ferrothorn is one of the few viableuseful Pokemon capable of setting up Spikes. Toxic is a viable option as well, but it is generally dismissed in favor of Leech Seed, which heals Ferrothorn in addition to racking up residual damage. Rugged Helmet is also a viable item choice on the standard set, as Pokemon that use contact moves against Ferrothorn will lose 25% of their health due to the combination of Rugged Helmet and Steel Thorns. This is especially helpful in warding off Pokemon that want to use Rapid Spin against Ferrothorn, especially since Rapid Spin does not remove entry hazards if the user faints from Steel Thorns immediately after using the move. On the Choice Band set, Ferrothorn can use Return, Rollout, Payback, Shadow Claw, or even Leech Seed in the fourth slot, although Spikes and Explosion are generally the superior options.</p>

[Counters]

<p>Pokemon that commonly carry Fire-type moves, such as Heatran, Blaziken, Zoroark, and Hydreigon, are more than capable of at the very least forcing Ferrothorn out. However, Ferrothorn is capable of surviving some weaker Fire-type attacks, such as Tyranitar's Flamethrower and Garchomp's Fire Fang. This gives Ferrothorn the opportunity to either attack back or set up entry hazards. Likewise, users of powerful Fighting-type attacks, such as Conkeldurr and Terrakion, will also scare most Ferrothorn off. XatuMagic Bounce Xatu and Espeon, as well as Taunt Skarmory are capable of rendering Ferrothorn nearly useless, preventing it from laying down Spikes while providing their own form of team support in the form of either Dueldual screens or Spikes, respectively.</p>

<p>Many Pokemon that are often otherwise shut down by Ferrothorn, such as Latios and Starmie, are capable of inflicting massive damagecrippling Ferrothorn if they choose to run Hidden Power Fire or Trick. Magnezone with either Hidden Power Fire or the combination of Charge Beam and Substitute is also capable of making Ferrothorn's life miserable. Finally, because Ferrothorn has no access todoes not have reliable recovery outside of Leech Seed and Rest, it can eventually be worn down by powerful and / or boosted neutral hits. Be warned, however, that many of Ferrothorn's counters will dread switching in on the Choice Band set, especially if they are not expecting it.</p>

[Dream World]

<p>Ferrothorn does not get a Dream World ability. However, once Dream World Chandelure is released, it is recommended that Ferrothorn opt to hold a Shed Shell rather than Leftovers in order to avoid being trapped and OHKOed by the deadly chandelier.</p>
 
I have been looking at Ferrothorn for awhile now and I am not that great at calculating what is best for a Pokemon. But it seems, a Sassy Natured Ferrothorn would do well.

He already has good Def and great Special Def. But since his weaknesses will mostly be special, to avoid his Iron Barb, pumping up the Special Def could help it out.

Right now, this is my set.

Nature: Sassy
Item: Leftovers(Will probably replace)
Evs: 252 Special Def, 252 Def, 4 Hp
Move 1: Stealth Rock
Move 2: Spikes
Move 3: Thunder Wave/Toxic
Move 4: Explosion/Protect

Again, I am not an expert, nor do I claim to be. I just figured I would post this set.
 
I have also been trying Ferrothorn with specially defensive EVs/nature. been running the following:

Careful Ferrothorn @ Occa Berry
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
- Leech Seed
- Curse
- Gyro Ball
- Spikes

with the occa berry Ferrothorn can weather serious punishment even from attacks like Salamence Fire Blast. obviously you already have curse covered under OO so no need to mention this set but I think specially defensive EVs and/or occa berry are worth a footnote.

solid writeup by the way :)
 
Also, for the EV spread, the one I usually use is Sassy nature and 252 HP/160 Def/96 SpD, which gives me defenses of 352 HP, 338 Def, and 321 SpD, meaning it can tank hits well from both ends of the spectrum.

Maybe just worth a mention in optional changes if you're looking for a mixed wall. If not, feel free to ignore. =)
The spread in the OP (252 HP/ 48 Def / 208 SpD) gives you 3 more Def points for 1 less SpD point.

At the very least run a Relaxed nature instead of Sassy which with a spread of 252 HP / 44 Def / 212 SpD generates 352 HP , 339 Def and 321 SpDef so you're gaining a Def point for free.
 
My take on GP - unofficial.
I got the last parts in an automated thingy, but the first three paragraphs didn't work, so I had to use different formatting. Change/Remove
Solid writing, and great article (you convinced me to try a Ferrothorn :P)
[Overview]

<p>With Generation V bringing a plethora Though Generation V brought a multitude of offensively-inclined threats into the metagame, Ferrothorn remains an exception to the rule, holding can hold its ground against many of the most threatening Pokemon seen in competitive play. Great defensive-typing, above average-stats, and a killer support movepool make him a valuable asset to both offensive and defensive teams alike. The cabaility of ability to checking so many threats at once, including but not limited to Latios, Gengar, and nearly every Water-type in existence, allows Ferrothorn many opportunities to switch in and either set up entry hazards or retaliate with either of its two powerful STAB moves. Much like any other Pokemon, however, Ferrothorn does have its drawbacks such as - namely, poor speed and a 4x Fire weakness, but w. With the right team support, though, Ferrothorn will almost always perform well.</p>

[SET]
name: Standard
move 1: Spikes / Stealth Rock
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Gyro Ball / Protect / Thunder Wave
move 4: Power Whip / Protect
nature: Relaxed
item: Leftovers / Shed Shell
evs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpDef
ivs: 0 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set is Ferrothorn's standard fare, and is what it will be running the majority of the time. (Redundant) Spikes work excellently works remarkably well on Ferrothorn, giving it something to do after switching in on one of the many opponents that can't touch him. Leech Seed is also a very effective move, useful for preventing opposing Pokemon from setting up on it, while at the same time providing self-healing. Gyro Ball and Power Whip are Ferrothorn's best attacking options, hitting the majority of the standard metagame for at least neutral damage. They each have their merits; the former is more useful against faster threats, most notably Dragon-types and Gengar, while the latter is more useful against Water-types and slow Pokemon, such as Reuniclus. However, because Ferrothorn's Attack stat without any investment is less than impressive without any investment, Protect is an appealing alternative over either move, as it is - useful not only for scouting, but for racking up Leech Seed and Leftovers recovery as well. Gyro Ball and Power Whip each have their own merits; the former is more useful against faster threats, most notably Dragon-types and Gengar, while the latter is more useful against Water-types and slow Pokemon, such as Reuniclus.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>In addition to the moves listed, t Two other viable options in Ferrothorn's movepool are Stealth Rock and Thunder Wave. While Ferrothorn is typically it is better suited for setting up Spikes, Stealth Rock can be used Ferrothorn can replace Spikes with Stealth Rock if it is being used in tandem with another Spikes user. Stealth Rock can also be used over Leech Seed, although this means Ferrothorn is left without any means of recovery outside of Leftovers. Thunder Wave, despite having poor synergy with Gyro Ball and difficulty finding an open moveslot, allows Ferrothorn to cripple many of its common counters, such as Blaziken and Hydreigon, although it can be difficult to find an open moveslot for it. As a final additional option. Finally, Ferrothorn can use Shed Shell in order to escape from Magnezone and Wobbuffet, although this means that Ferrothorn loses out on valuable Leftovers recovery.</p>

<p>Ferrothorn can be EVed in many different ways, depending on how defensive it needs to be on each side of the damage spectrum. The given EV spread balances Ferrothorn's Defense and Special Defense, with a slight emphasis on Defense, allowing Ferrothorn to fare better against threats such as Excadrill, Landorus, Haxorus, Gyarados, and some variants of Scizor. However, a Sassy nature can be used in order to better take hits from the likes of Latios, Starmie, and Gengar even better. EV investment can be adapted as seen fit depending on what Ferrothorn is typically depended on to switch into more often. Finally, while not required, Ferrothorn can benefit from some investment in Attack in order to inflict more damage to foes, such as Landorus (does more damage to all foes, not specifically Landorus - thus removed.). Anywhere between 40 and 252 EVs can be used, ; however, keep in mind that too much investment severely detracts from Ferrothorn's survivability.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Gyro Ball
move 2: Power Whip
move 3: Level GroundBulldoze
move 4: Spikes / Explosion
nature: Brave
item: Choice Band
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpDef
ivs: 0 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While this set may appear, at first glance, to be a gimmick at first, it is quite far from the opposite. Ferrothorn may lack a large offensive movepool, but its two extremely powerful STAB moves in, Gyro Ball and Power Whip, backed by a respectable base 94 Attack stat show that, make this a set is not to be underestimated. Steel- and Grass-type attacks have surprisingly good coverage together, only being reisisted by only a handful of common threats, mostall of which possessare either of Steel- or Fire-typing. While Level Ground may haveBulldoze has a paltry 60 base power of 60, it hits many of the Pokemon that resist Ferrothorn's STAB moves for a large amount of damage. The last moveslot is largely a filler; Spikes isn't the best move to be locked into, but can be useful in certain situations. Explosion's high base power, on the other hand, is very appealing, but comes at the cost of Ferrothorn's life, and is not much more powerful than Ferrothorn's STAB-moves.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>This set is so effective because of Ferrothorn's surprising power when it wields a Choice Band in tandem with its useful bulk and typing. Because many players expect Ferrothorn to simply set up Spikes or use Leech Seed in order to recover, it is typically, it is unlikely for the opponent to switch in a Pokemon capable of withstanding all of Ferrothorn's attacks. Here are some damage calculations to show how powerful this set is, assuming a Brave nature and 0 Speed IVs.</p>

<ul class="damage_calculation">
<li>Gyro Ball vs. 4/0 Garchomp: 94.1% - 110.9%</li>
<li>Gyro Ball (-1) vs. 0/0 Salamence: 77.9% - 91.8%</li>
<li>Gyro Ball vs. 4/0 Thundurus: 72% - 84.7%</li>
<li>Gyro Ball vs. 252/4 Deoxys-S: 115.5% - 136.2%</li>
<li>Gyro Ball vs. 252/184+ Gliscor: 58.8% - 69.5%</li>
<li>Power Whip vs. 4/0 Excadrill: 107.73% - 126.80%</li>
<li>Power Whip vs. 252/0 Conkeldurr: 65.2% - 76.8%</li>
<li>Power Whip vs. 192/64 Reuniclus: 73.6% - 86.8%</li>
<li>Power Whip vs. 252/252+ Reuniclus: 52.6% - 62.3%</li>
<li>Power Whip vs. 252/252+ Suicune: 83.7% - 98.5%</li>
<li>Power Whip vs. 252/252+ Hippowdon: 79% - 93.3%</li>
<li>Level Ground vs. 4/0 Heatran: 69.1% - 81.5%</li>
<li>Level Ground vs. 40/0 Magnezone: 70.1% - 83.8%</li>
<li>Explosion vs. 192/64 Zapdos: 80.8% - 95.1%</li>
</ul>

<p>Despite the lack of investment in Ferrothorn's defensesdefensive investment, maximizing Ferrothorn's HP investment still provides it with plenty ofsufficient bulk. In fact, Ferrothorn's bulk in combination with its great defensive- typing is one of his main selling points over other Choice Band users, such as Terrakion, Garchomp, and Scizor, as Ferrothorn willcan often take multiple hits before going down. Unfortunately, there are several common Pokemon that Choice Band Ferrothorn struggles with:, primarily Scizor, Skarmory, Bronzong, Zapdos, and opposing Ferrothorn. For this reason, it is wise to pair Ferrothorn up with a Fire-type. Not only do they have good synergy, but a Fire-type such as Heatran or Infernape is capable of switching in on many of the Pokemon that give this set trouble.</p>

[Team Options]

<p>Thanks to Ferrothorn's great defensive typing, it is one of the easiest Pokemon to make a defensive core with. Jellicent is one of the best options, as together they resist every attacking type in the game with the exception of Ground. In addition, Jellicent is capable of blocking attempts to spin away the hazards that Ferrothorn sets up. Fire-types in general also make great teammates to Ferrothorn, as not only do they resist Ferrothorn's biggest weakness, but they also scare off many of the Pokemon that give Ferrothorn problems, such as Skarmory, Scizor, and some Jirachi. Water-types also generally have good synergy with Ferrothorn, particularly those that also possess a resistance to Fighting-type moves, such as Gyarados and Tentacruel.</p>

<p>On the subject of Fighting-type moves, Pokemon that can counter the Fighting-types that often trouble Ferrothorn can also prove to make invaluable teammates. Gliscor and Reuniclus are both good choices; Gliscor is capable of defeating nearly all Fighting-types, with the exception of those who carry Ice-type moves specifically to counter it, while Reuniclus can set up Trick Room, which Ferrothorn can potentially take advantage of. Reuniclus also benefits from the entry hazards that Ferrothorn can lay down, even more so than most other sweepers.</p>

<p>Ferrothorn is also often compared towith Forretress when competing for a team slot. This is not surprising, as; both Pokemon possess a similar typing, while also having and access to Spikes. Forretress also has better Defense, while Ferrothorn has superior Special Defense. In general, the team slot willshould go to whichever the team needs more: Forretress's access to Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin, or Ferrothorn's superior resistances and Special Defense. Regardless, one should consider Forretress before deciding to use Ferrothorn on a team.</p>

[Optional Changes]

<p>Two of the most noteworthy moves not mentioned above are Curse and Gravity. Curse is a viable set-up move for Ferrothorn, allowing it to boost its Attack to dangerous levels while increassimultaneously pushing its Defense through the roof simultaneously. However, Ferrothorn is still vulnerable to Fire-type attacks, and will be OHKOed by many of them, so this set requires a great deal of team support. Gravity, on the other hand, allows Ferrothron to act as a defensive pivot on a Gravity-based team, although Gravity is generally considered a gimmicky strategy.</p>

<p>For individual sets, the standard set does not have many other options available aside from Stealth Rock and Toxic. Stealth Rock is only reccommended if there is no teammate that can set up Stealth Rock as effectively, as Ferrothorn is one of the few useful Pokemon capable of setting up Spikes. Toxic is a viable option as well, but it is generally dismissed in favor of Leech Seed, which heals Ferrothorn in addition to racking up residual damage. Rugged Helmet is also a viable item choice on the standard set, as Pokemon that use contact moves against Ferrothorn will lose 25% of their health due to the combination of Rugged Helmet and Steel Thorns. This is especially helpful in warding off Pokemon that want to use Rapid Spin against Ferrothorn, especially since Rapid Spin does not remove entry hazards if the user faints from Steel Thorns immediately after using the move. On the Choice Band set, Ferrothorn can use Return, Rollout, Payback, Shadow Claw, or even Leech Seed in the fourth slot, although Spikes and Explosion are generally the superior options.</p>

[Counters]

<p>Pokemon that carry Fire-type moves, such as Heatran, Blaziken, Zoroark, and Hydreigon, are more than capable of at the very least forcing Ferrothorn out. However, Ferrothorn is capable of surviving some weaker Fire-type attacks, such as Tyranitar's Flamethrower and Garchomp's Fire Fang. This gives Ferrothorn the opportunity to either attack back or set up entry hazards. Likewise, uUsers of powerful Fighting-type attacks, such as Conkeldurr and Terrakion, will also scare most Ferrothorn off. Magic Bounce Xatu and Espeon, as well as Taunt Skarmory are capable of rendering Ferrothorn nearly useless, preventing it from laying down Spikes while providing their own form of team support in the form of either dual screens or Spikes, respectively.</p>

<p>Many Pokemon that are often otherwise shut down by Ferrothorn, such as Latios and Starmie, are capable of crippling Ferrothorn if they choose to run Hidden Power Fire or Trick. Magnezone with either Hidden Power Fire or the combination of Charge Beam and Substitute is also capable of making Ferrothorn's life miserable. Finally, because Ferrothorn does not have reliable recovery outside of Leech Seed and Rest, it can eventually be worn down by powerful or boosted neutral hits. Be warned, however, that many of Ferrothorn's counters will dread switching in on the Choice Band set, especially if they are not expecting it.</p>

[Dream World]

<p>Ferrothorn does not get a Dream World ability. However, once Dream World Chandelure is released, it is recommended that Ferrothorn opt to hold a Shed Shell rather than Leftovers in order to avoid being trapped and OHKOed by the deadly chandelier.</p>
 
For those of you who have wasted time thinking about who to breed Nattorei with to get good egg moves (took me forever to figure this out), here you go...
Male Caturne + Female Nattorei = Nattorei w/ spikes and leech seed
Male Tortera + Female Nattorei = Natorei w/ stealth rocks
Male Crustle + Female Nattorei = Nattorei w/ stealth rocks and spikes

Ohh and I think this moveset works best (wall)

Nattorei@Rocky Helmet or Leftovers
trait:Iron barbs
-Gyro ball
-Power whip
-Leech seed
-Spikes
252 hp/48 Def/208 spl.D
 
I'm surprise their is no curse set yet. i been using this and it works nicely

name: Cursethorn
move 1: Curse
move 2: Leech Seed / Ingrain / Explosion
move 3: Gyro Ball
move 4: Power Whip
nature: Sassy
item: Leftovers
evs: 252hp / 4def / 252DpDef
ivs: 0 Spe

Curse pumps your attack and lowers your speed boosting Gyro Ball even more. since your cursing you do not need defense investment so you put max hp and Spdef. the big choice is between leech seed or ingrain. leach seed weakens you opponents, but do not work on plant types like b-loom and whimsiscott. ingrain heals you and prevents you from being roared out, but prevents you from switching. if you use ingrain make sure that they are no counters on your opponents side. if you do not think Ferrowthorn will last then you could always explode.
 

Aeron Ee1

Nom nom nom
is a Top Contributor Alumnus
Changes in bold
Removals in red
Comments in bold red

[Overview]

<p>With Generation V bringing a plethora of offensively-inclined threats into the metagame, Ferrothorn remains an exception to the rule, holding its ground against many of the most threatening Pokemon seen in competitive play. Great defensive typing, above average stats, and a killer support movepool make him a valuable asset to both offensive and defensive teams alike. The ability to check so many threats at once, including but not limited to Latios, Gengar, and nearly every Water-type in existence allows Ferrothorn many opportunities to switch in and either set up entry hazards or retaliate with either of its two powerful STAB moves. Much like any other Pokemon, Ferrothorn does have its drawbacks in its poor Speed and a 4x Fire weakness, but with the right team support, (comma) Ferrothorn will almost always perform well.</p>

[SET]
name: Standard
move 1: Spikes / Stealth Rock
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Gyro Ball / Protect / Thunder Wave
move 4: Power Whip / Protect
nature: Relaxed
item: Leftovers / Shed Shell
evs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpDef
ivs: 0 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set is Ferrothorn's standard fare, and is what it will be running the majority of the time. Spikes work excellently on Ferrothorn, giving it something to do after switching in on an opponent that can't touch him. Leech Seed is also a very effective move, useful for preventing opposing Pokemon from setting up on it, while at the same time providing self-healing. Gyro Ball and Power Whip are Ferrothorn's best attacking options, hitting the majority of the standard metagame for at least neutral damage. However, because Ferrothorn's Attack stat is less than impressive without any investment, Protect is an appealing alternative over either move, as it is useful not only for scouting, but for racking up Leech Seed and Leftovers recovery as well. Gyro Ball and Power Whip each have their own merits; the former is more useful against faster threats, most notably Dragon-types and Gengar, while the latter is more useful against Water-types and slow Pokemon, such as Reuniclus.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>In addition to the moves listed, two other viable options in Ferrothorn's movepool are Stealth Rock and Thunder Wave. While Ferrothorn is typically better suited for setting up Spikes, Stealth Rock can be used if it is being used with another Spikes user. Stealth Rock can also be used over Leech Seed, although this means Ferrothorn is left without any means of recovery outside of Leftovers. Thunder Wave, despite having poor synergy with Gyro Ball, allows Ferrothorn to cripple many of its common counters, such as Blaziken and Hydreigon, although it can be difficult to find an open moveslot for it. As a final additional option, Ferrothorn can use Shed Shell in order to escape from Magnezone and Wobbuffet, although this means that Ferrothorn loses out on valuable Leftovers recovery.</p>

<p>Ferrothorn can be EVed in many different ways, depending on how defensive it needs to be on each side of the damage spectrum. The given EV spread balances Ferrothorn's Defense and Special Defense, with a slight emphasis on Defense, allowing Ferrothorn to fare better against threats such as Excadrill, Landorus, Haxorus, Gyarados, and some variants of Scizor. However, a Sassy nature can be used in order to take hits from the likes of Latios, Starmie, and Gengar even better. EV investment can be adapted as seen fit depending on what Ferrothorn is typically depended on to switch into more often. Finally, while not required, Ferrothorn can benefit from some investment in Attack in order to inflict more damage to foes, such as Landorus. Anywhere between 40 and 252 EVs can be used, however keep in mind that too much investment severely detracts from Ferrothorn's survivability.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Gyro Ball
move 2: Power Whip
move 3: Bulldoze
move 4: Spikes / Explosion
nature: Brave
item: Choice Band
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpDef
ivs: 0 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While this set may appear to be a gimmick at first, it is quite far from it. Ferrothorn may lack a large offensive movepool, but its two extremely powerful STAB moves in Gyro Ball and Power Whip backed by a respectable base 94 Attack stat show that this set is not to be underestimated. Steel- and Grass-type attacks have surprisingly good coverage together, only being reisisted by a handful of common threats, most of which possess either Steel or Fire typing. Despite Bulldoze's paltry Base Power of 60, it hits many of the Pokemon that resist Ferrothorn's STAB moves for a large amount of damage. The last moveslot is largely filler; Spikes isn't the best move to be locked into, but can be useful in certain situations. Explosion's high Base Power, on the other hand, is very appealing, but comes at the cost of Ferrothorn's life, and is not much more powerful than Ferrothorn's STAB moves.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>This set is so effective because of Ferrothorn's surprising power when it wields a Choice Band in tandem with its useful bulk and typing. Because many players expect Ferrothorn to simply set up Spikes or use Leech Seed in order to recover, it is typically unlikely for the opponent to switch in a Pokemon capable of withstanding all of Ferrothorn's attacks. Here are some damage calculations to show how powerful this set is, assuming a Brave nature and 0 Speed IVs.</p>

<ul class="damage_calculation">
<li>Gyro Ball vs. 4/0 Garchomp: 94.1% - 110.9%</li>
<li>Gyro Ball (-1) vs. 0/0 Salamence: 77.9% - 91.8%</li>
<li>Gyro Ball vs. 4/0 Thundurus: 72% - 84.7%</li>
<li>Gyro Ball vs. 252/4 Deoxys-S: 115.5% - 136.2%</li>
<li>Gyro Ball vs. 252/184+ Gliscor: 58.8% - 69.5%</li>
<li>Power Whip vs. 4/0 Excadrill: 107.73% - 126.80%</li>
<li>Power Whip vs. 252/0 Conkeldurr: 65.2% - 76.8%</li>
<li>Power Whip vs. 192/64 Reuniclus: 73.6% - 86.8%</li>
<li>Power Whip vs. 252/252+ Reuniclus: 52.6% - 62.3%</li>
<li>Power Whip vs. 252/252+ Suicune: 83.7% - 98.5%</li>
<li>Power Whip vs. 252/252+ Hippowdon: 79% - 93.3%</li>
<li>Bulldoze vs. 4/0 Heatran: 69.1% - 81.5%</li>
<li>Bulldoze vs. 40/0 Magnezone: 70.1% - 83.8%</li>
<li>Explosion vs. 192/64 Zapdos: 80.8% - 95.1%</li>
</ul>

<p>Despite the lack of investment in Ferrothorn's defenses, maximizing Ferrothorn's HP investment still provides it with plenty of bulk. In fact, Ferrothorn's bulk in combination with its great defensive typing is one of his main selling points over other Choice Band users, such as Terrakion, Garchomp, and Scizor, as Ferrothorn will often take multiple hits before going down. Unfortunately, there are several common Pokemon that Choice Band Ferrothorn struggles with, namely Scizor, Skarmory, Bronzong, Zapdos, and opposing Ferrothorn. For this reason, it is wise to pair Ferrothorn up with a Fire-type. Not only do they have good synergy, but a Fire-type such as Heatran or Infernape is capable of switching in on many of the Pokemon that give this set trouble.</p>

[Team Options]

<p>Thanks to Ferrothorn's great defensive typing, it is one of the easiest Pokemon to make a defensive core with. Jellicent is one of the best options, as together, (comma) they resist every attacking type in the game with the exception of Ground. In addition, Jellicent is capable of blocking attempts to spin away the hazards that Ferrothorn sets up. Fire-types in general also make great teammates to Ferrothorn, as not only do they resist Ferrothorn's biggest weakness, but they also scare off many of the Pokemon that give Ferrothorn problems, such as Skarmory, Scizor, and some Jirachi. Water-types also generally have good synergy with Ferrothorn, particularly those that also possess a resistance to Fighting-type moves, such as Gyarados and Tentacruel.</p>

<p>On the subject of Fighting-type moves, Pokemon that can counter the Fighting-types that often trouble Ferrothorn can also prove to make invaluable teammates. Gliscor and Reuniclus are both good choices; Gliscor is capable of defeating nearly all Fighting-types, with the exception of those who carry Ice-type moves specifically to counter it, while Reuniclus can set up Trick Room which Ferrothorn can potentially take advantage of. Reuniclus also benefits from the entry hazards that Ferrothorn can lay down, even moreso than most other sweepers.</p>

<p>Ferrothorn is also often compared to Forretress when competing for a team slot. This is not surprising, as both Pokemon possess a similar typing, while also having access to Spikes. Forretress also has better Defense while Ferrothorn has superior Special Defense. In general, the team slot will go to whichever the team needs more: Forretress' access to Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin, or Ferrothorn's superior resistances and Special Defense. Regardless, one should consider Forretress before deciding to use Ferrothorn on a team.</p>

(team options section has been deleted, but there's some good stuff in here. so if they're said no where else, put them in the AC of the more appropriate set)
[Other Options]

<p>Two of the most noteworthy moves not mentioned above are Curse and Gravity. Curse is a viable set-up move for Ferrothorn, allowing it to boost its Attack to dangerous levels while simultaneously increasing its Defense through the roof simultaneously. However, Ferrothorn is still vulnerable to Fire-type attacks, and will be OHKOed by many of them, so this set requires a great deal of team support. Gravity, on the other hand, allows Ferrothorn to act as a defensive pivot on a Gravity-based team, although Gravity is generally considered a gimmicky strategy.</p>

<p>For individual sets, the standard set does not have many other options available aside from Stealth Rock and Toxic. Stealth Rock is only recommended if there is no teammate that can set up Stealth Rock as effectively, as Ferrothorn is one of the few useful Pokemon capable of setting up Spikes. Toxic is a viable option as well, but it is generally dismissed in favor of Leech Seed, which heals Ferrothorn in addition to racking up residual damage. Rugged Helmet is also a viable item choice on the standard set, as Pokemon that use contact moves against Ferrothorn will lose 25% of their health due to the combination of Rugged Helmet and Steel Thorns. This is especially helpful in warding off Pokemon that want to use Rapid Spin against Ferrothorn, especially since Rapid Spin does not remove entry hazards if the user faints from Steel Thorns immediately after using the move. On the Choice Band set, Ferrothorn can use Return, Rollout, Payback, Shadow Claw, or even Leech Seed in the fourth slot, although Spikes and Explosion are generally the superior options.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Pokemon that carry Fire-type moves, such as Heatran, Blaziken, Zoroark, and Hydreigon, are more than capable of at the very least forcing Ferrothorn out. However, Ferrothorn is capable of surviving some weaker Fire-type attacks, such as Tyranitar's Flamethrower and Garchomp's Fire Fang. This gives Ferrothorn the opportunity to either attack back or set up entry hazards. Likewise, users of powerful Fighting-type attacks, such as Conkeldurr and Terrakion, will also scare most Ferrothorn off. Magic Bounce Xatu and Espeon, as well as Taunt Skarmory are capable of rendering Ferrothorn nearly useless, preventing it from laying down Spikes while providing their own form of team support in the form of either dual screens or Spikes, respectively.</p>

<p>Many Pokemon that are often otherwise shut down by Ferrothorn, such as Latios and Starmie, are capable of crippling Ferrothorn if they choose to run Hidden Power Fire or Trick. Magnezone with either Hidden Power Fire or the combination of Charge Beam and Substitute is also capable of making Ferrothorn's life miserable. Finally, because Ferrothorn does not have reliable recovery outside of Leech Seed and Rest, it can eventually be worn down by powerful or boosted neutral hits. Be warned, however, that many of Ferrothorn's counters will dread switching in on the Choice Band set, especially if they are not expecting it.</p>

[Dream World]

<p>Ferrothorn does not get a Dream World ability. However, once Dream World Chandelure is released, it is recommended that Ferrothorn opt to hold a Shed Shell rather than Leftovers in order to avoid being trapped and OHKOed by the deadly chandelier.</p>


excellent. i loved it.

(2/2)
 

prem

failed abortion
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in the checks and counters section, you should remove the Blaziken mention because it's now uber, but great analysis otherwise
 

prem

failed abortion
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About the CB set:

Bulldoze is counterproductive with Gyro Ball here. Bulldoze cuts the opponent's speed, which is great except that makes Gyro Ball weaker. Gyro Ball receiving STAB and usually having higher base power, I'd say it gets priority; the calcs were impressive, but with things like Heatran carrying balloons, Blaziken leaving for ubers, and Volcarona being neutral to Ground... I'd say Bulldoze is pretty useless.

Yeah you get some coverage, but honestly not much. Torterra showed us what piss-poor coverage Grass and Ground have, and obviously Steel adds little to that. Combine that with its low base power and the fact that it attracts balloons and levitators like flies to shit and well... you get the idea.
On any other set I'd say it doesn't matter but its a CB set... and you need enough moves to provide coverage worth a damn. I say scrap it.

EDIT: also I've never seen a Ferrothorn with Bulldoze anyway. I've actually never seen one with any damaging moves other than Gyro Ball or Power Whip. I think its effectiveness is dubious at best and Ferrothorn has better and more useful things to be doing.
i have actually been using cb ferro extensively atm, and it is actually quite good. and on the choice band set after a bulldoze you wont be able to change to gyroball, making you switch anyway. i actually like choice band set more than the pure defensive set
 
Jellicent is one of the best options, as together, they resist every attacking type in the game with the exception of Ground.
They also fail to resist Flying, and with Hurricane being on every rain team, it's worth noting.

Also, the CB set should have 248 HP EVs, as that way it will take less damage from Spikes/SR. The other 4 should go into Sp Def.
I know this has already been through QC, but I fail to see any way that the new spread wouldn't be better than the current one.
 
Random idea: Trick Room Reuniclus + Curse Ferrothorn.

Ferrothorn can absorb hits while the set-up goes on, and once Ferrothorn reaches where the user wants him to be in terms of Curse bulk, he can just go from there.
 

breh

強いだね
Random idea: Trick Room Reuniclus + Curse Ferrothorn.

Ferrothorn can absorb hits while the set-up goes on, and once Ferrothorn reaches where the user wants him to be in terms of Curse bulk, he can just go from there.
Setup moves mesh poorly with Trick Room unless the TR user is the one doing the setup (for example, Nasty Plot Slowking in gen 4 UU) because you reduce the number of turns you can sweep to 2, less with subsequent setups.
 
Nitpicking:

[SET]
name: Standard
move 1: Spikes / Stealth Rock
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Gyro Ball / Protect / Thunder Wave
move 4: Power Whip / Protect
nature: Relaxed
item: Leftovers / Shed Shell
evs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
ivs: 0 Spe
and

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Gyro Ball
move 2: Power Whip
move 3: Bulldoze
move 4: Spikes / Explosion
nature: Brave
item: Choice Band
evs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
ivs: 0 Spe
Fixed both instances of "SpDef" to "Spd."
 
I would like to re-iterate that 248 HP EVs is a superior spread on the CB set, because max HP causes you to take more Spikes and SR damage.

Also:
Delta 2777 said:
The ability to check so many threats at once, including but not limited to Latios, Gengar
Every single set in the Gengar analysis runs Focus Blast, which will always 2HKO the standard EV spread, even through Leftovers, even without SR or Spikes support, even without a Life Orb.
I don't see how Ferro is checking Gengar.
 

Delta 2777

Machampion
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I would like to re-iterate that 248 HP EVs is a superior spread on the CB set, because max HP causes you to take more Spikes and SR damage.

Also:

Every single set in the Gengar analysis runs Focus Blast, which will always 2HKO the standard EV spread, even through Leftovers, even without SR or Spikes support, even without a Life Orb.
I don't see how Ferro is checking Gengar.
The spread has listed 248 HP for a while now.
Ferrothorn can switch in on Shadow Ball for free and OHKO with Gyro Ball. Even if they do use Focus Blast, there's less than a 50% chance that Gengar will land both consecutively. I think calling Ferrothorn a "check" isn't too outlandish (obviously its not a full-on counter).
 
The spread has listed 248 HP for a while now.
Ferrothorn can switch in on Shadow Ball for free and OHKO with Gyro Ball. Even if they do use Focus Blast, there's less than a 50% chance that Gengar will land both consecutively. I think calling Ferrothorn a "check" isn't too outlandish (obviously its not a full-on counter).
That's weird. When I go to the analysis, it says 252 EVs. But then if I re-load the page, it says 248. I just did that three times, and it did the same thing every time... w/e, apparently you're right.

I just checked. LO Gengar using Shadow Ball + Focus Blast does 89.5%-106% to the spread currently given. If hazards are up, Ferrothorn is going down.
Granted, not all Gengar run a Life Orb, but those that do pretty much beat Ferrothorn.
I guess Ferrothorn is technically a check, but it's a very shaky one at best.
 
I just realized the sets list "SpDef" instead of "SpD". There also are a few mentions of Garchomp (calcs, Fire Fang variants, etc.). That's all I found, kickass analysis
 
i think this ferrothorn set deserves a spot on the anaylisis

[SET]
name: Standard
move 1: Curse
move 2: Protect
move 3: Leech Seed
move 4: Gyro Ball
nature: Sassy
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 252 SpDef / 6 Def
ivs: 0 Spe
it works really well and after a few curse it can turn in to a juggernaut that is hard to take down
 

November Blue

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is a Contributor Alumnus
Wait, 248 HP?

I thought that 252 was better. It's a perfect lefties/leech seed number, which seems more important (IMO) as ferro lacks a recovery move.

EDIT: See, this is what happens when you post something before you check the analysis. Choice band set runs 248 HP EVs, got it.
 

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