Ferrothorn + Jellicent, Stallmates

[Korski]

Approved by OmegaDonut

So everyone's surely aware at this point of this potent defensive Gen. V duo, with their Celetran-ish type combination and apparent boon to Stall strategy.

Nattorei
Type: Grass / Steel
Ability: Steel Thorns (Rough Skin clone)
Stats: 74 / 94 / 131 / 54 / 116 / 20

Weaks:

Resists:

Immunities:

Notable Moves:
Spikes
Stealth Rock
Leech Seed
Curse
Ingrain
Toxic
Protect
Thunder Wave

Power Whip
Explosion
Gyro Ball

Nattorei has great bulk, typing, and moves. Steel Thorns + Leech Seed + Toxic can sap opponents' health very quickly. Needs to keep Shanderaa far, far away, and probably Magnezone, too. Will probably always run Shed Shell. Note that Spikes is legal with Leech Seed and Stealth Rock, but not both at the same time.

Burunkeru
Type: Water / Ghost
Ability: Water Absorb / Cursed Body / lolDamp (DW)
Stats: 100 / 60 / 70 / 85 / 105 / 60

Weaks:

Resists:

(Cursed Body / Damp)
Immunities:

(Water Absorb)

Notable Moves:
Recover
Toxic
Taunt
Protect
Will-O-Wisp

Evil Eye
Shadow Ball
Surf
Boiling Water

Burunkeru has everything it needs for longevity. Good stats, typing, Water Absorb, and Recover help it stick around to Spinblock. Will-O-Wisp and Boiling Water will make physical attackers and Pursuiters think twice before switching in, which is good because Burunkeru's Defense stat is lacking.

Pros:

• They cover each others' weaknesses. Like CeleTran and MagneMence before them, this duo resists each others' weaknesses. Burunkeru is immune to Fighting moves and resists Fire moves that hit Nattorei SE and Nattorei resists all of Burunkeru's 4 weaknesses in Dark, Electric, Ghost, and Grass, so switching between the two to avoid devastating SE attacks should be quite advantageous and open up room elsewhere on the team typing-wise.
• Together, they resist 15 of the 17 Attack types. This is great. Burunkeru and Nattorei together resist every attacking type in the game besides Flying (whatever) and Ground (shoot). Having such a great spread of resistances in just two Pokemon will be a huge help to Stall players.
• Good defensive stats. 74 / 131 / 116 and 100 / 70 / 105 are bulky enough (Burunkeru could use a Def boost, but it's still bulkier than Rotom-A, which is good.), meaning they can take repeated hits. Add to that the fact that both have means of recovery (Leech Seed, Recover) and you're looking at two really good walls.
• Entry Hazards + Spin blocking. Nattorei has access to both Stealth Rock and Spikes and Burunkeru has the Ghost typing required to make sure layers stay on the field.

Cons:

• No Ground resist. A resistance to Earthquake is such a highly valued one, and this combo lacks it. Both need to stay away from SD Doryuuzu unless they can catch it with a Power Whip / WoW / Surf / Boiling Water on the switch, which is unfortunate, since Dory could be Gen. V's premier offensive Rapid Spinner. Thank goodness you get to pick out four other Pokemon for your team.
• Gen. V is pretty strong. It's the strongest of the generations by good measure. All the new 140+ attackers and the (initially) non-existent banlist allowing former Ubers to run around will make players play a lot smarter if they want to keep their Stallmons around.

Potential Teammates (will update with thread):

• Zapdos: Immune to Earthquake, resists Flying moves, good stallmon in general. Ice weakness mitigated by Burunkeru, Rock by Nattorei.
• Latias: With Wish it can heal up Nattorei, who only has Leech Seed in terms of self-recovery. Can Phaze opponents through entry hazards. Resists Fire, Grass, Electric, Water (3rd Water resist!), and Fighting and is immune to Ground, but shares Burunkeru's Dark and Ghost weaknesses.
• Erufuun: Can switch in on setup-Pokes who try to stat up while forcing duo out and Encore / Stun Spore. Frail, though, and shares Fire weakness with Nattorei.
• Blissey: Classic stallmon can switch into any Special Attack fearlessly. New Wish mechanics makes it even better than it was last Gen. in terms of supporting.

Potential Counters (will update with thread):

• Sazandora: Commonly carries Fire and Dark moves.
• Offensive Zapdos: Commonly runs Thunderbolt and Heat Wave. Lightningrod boosts its SpA, so it can really run through this core if it gets a boost.
• Breloom: SubPuncher with Seed Bomb hits both for SE damage. Spore.
• Shanderaa: Big threat with 145 SpA and Fire/Ghost STAB which wrecks this duo. Shadow Tag.

So what do you all think? Is this the face of Gen. V stall? How do you plan on using this impressive core?

 

[Saria]

Burungeru and natoreii combo isnt that great, is really overrated, im using them myself, i was one of the first using it, but combined with the true perfect partner for natoreii, wish latias. They cover each other weakness perfectly and latias keeps natoreii healthy with wish

 

[boota212]

These two pokemon will ultimately become the new face of stall. Burunkeru becomes an even more promising option, since Rotom-A has lost it's ghost secondary typing, Burunkeru will become the ultimate spin-blocker. Despite the lack of a ground resist, these two most definitly have the potential to keep you stalled-out for an interminable amount of time. Nice summary of the two OP.

 

[Not Scicky]

On Nattorei, I'm fairly sure you can get Spikes + Stealth Rock by breeding spikes onto an Iwaparesu and then getting it to learn Stealth Rocks through level up. It's just impossible to get the combination of Leech Seed + Stealth Rocks + Spikes, you can have any variation on the two.

Edit: Zapdos makes a great counter AND partner to these two with his ground immunity and resistance to flying (counterwise he has heatwave and thunderbolt but it's not really the best option against Burunkeru), he also helps out with Nattorei's fighting weakness and Burunkeru's grass weakness, sound like a pokemon you know? *cough*breloom*cough*

He's also fantastic at abusing Nattorei's hazards thanks to whirlwind and roar.

 

[GLS]

Burungeru is a bit overstimated in the defense bit. He is prime set up bait for special sweepers like NP Lucario since he really can't do anything to them aside from attack with weak attacks. And with the advent of the new Bulb item it makes his attack, which is usually Boiling Water so far, aid in the setting up. I'd like to see something with higher Sp Def to the pair. Or adding in something with Dragon Tail. Together they really allow you to just set up on them.

 

[Bribery]

I've paired this duo with Latias and it works well. They may be a good defensive core as a duo but a lot of things can set up on them. Latias covers Nattorei's weaknesses perfectly and two of Burunkeru's. Her base 110 lets her revenge kill slower setup Pokemon, like NP Lucario, that could otherwise setup all over Nattorei and Burunkeru.

Another Pokemon that this duo needs to watch out for is Sazandora.

 

[Not Scicky]

I've never really seen Bulb personally, and 100/105 is amazing as far as Special Defense goes, and it's NOT completely crippled by physical sweepers like Blissey is. 85 SpAtk isn't completely terrible though, and the burn damage doesn't just aid in taking hits, but in taking something down.

@Bribery: And Shanderaa, Fire/Ghost hurts like a bitch.

 

[M BLADE]

Does anyone think that Zapdos is a very cool teammate for those two?
It resists the other 2 types Natto and Buru doesn't, it has nice bulk, recovery move etc.

Also, bulky Latias with Wish maybe?

Some guesses...

 

[Ice-eyes]

What you want in a Wishpasser now is high HP and Latias doesn't really have that - plus, Tar is EVERYWHERE...

 

[Arc Tech]

It's not very hard to break them- nattorei's quad fire weakness cripples them imo (the fact nattorei has no reliable recovery hurts as well).

There are plenty of pokemon that can break them. Lati@s with hp fire and soul dew and either cm or tbolt would eliminate them both. An offensive Zapdos should be able to ko both of them, especially if it has a lightning rod boost. Fighting + Dark/Ghost, a common attacking combination, also hits both of them super effectively. Shandera can also hit them both SE with it's stabs.

A new skarmbliss they are not. I have swept many teams containing the nattorei+burungeru easily on PO. Often with Kerudio (lol @ burungeru being a kerudio counter).

 

[VKCA]

So not really any way to deal with magnezone though... hmm thats kind of a bummer. Not to mention that Burunkeru doesn't really have the greatest defenses. Really strong physical fire moves could be a bit of a problem.

 

[Ice-eyes]

Yeah, it's definitely the electrics that tear through this core, which has problems with Zapdos, Borutorosu and Magnezone.

 

[Green Mage]

Not close to being skarmbliss, or celetran for that matter. Here's the thing: one is hit with ghost/dark, and the other is hit with fighting, and no pokemon in the game resists both. Anything with ghost or dark and fighting breaks it and there's no teammate you can use to protect them from it.

 

[Not Scicky]

LO Jolly Hihidaruma's Flare Blitz does 30% - 35.4% to Burunkeru with max HP and defense, so that's pretty scary, but come on, it's pretty much the same situation with Hihidaruma as it is with Ononokusu and Skarmory, he just breaks shit, but in that case Burunkeru has a chance to hit him with Boiling Water, and he's not super bulky or anything so he'll take quite a chunk of HP from it even if he doesn't get burned or anything. But anyway, that's Hihidaruma, easily the strongest physical fire type in the game, so anything that's not him won't really be doing upwards of that.

Burunkeru and Nattorei aren't the new Skarmbliss, but on a team WITH those two, they present a pretty great stall team, with Blissey masterfully sponging Special Hits, Burunkeru absorbing rapid spins, Nattorei setting up hazards and Skarmory providing extra hazard support and the ability to siphon through the opponents team, as well as extra physical bulk on top of Nattorei's already excellent bulk, as far as counters, Emboar completely dominates with Wild Bolt, Hammer Arm and Flare Blitz, so I sort of feel like Skarmory is replaceable, since he kind of exaggerates Burunat's Fire/Elec weakness and it's just neutral to fighting so if Burunkeru's out, you'll have trouble with fighting types, really, I'd replace him with Zapdos.

 

[Frost Nocturne]

Not close to being skarmbliss, or celetran for that matter. Here's the thing: one is hit with ghost/dark, and the other is hit with fighting, and no pokemon in the game resists both. Anything with ghost or dark and fighting breaks it and there's no teammate you can use to protect them from it.

You do realize that exact same scenario applies to Celetran as well, right? And Skarmbliss is easily broken by Infernape/Blaziken for example, just as Nattguru is broken by Breloom/Birijion. Thats what you have other teammates for. No core is completely perfect, thats what you have 4 other Teammates for. Besides, one of the greatest things about Nattorei+Burungeru is that they lay hazards and block spinning by themselves in addition to being a great defensive core that lets you pivot to spike or block spin.

 

[Xaif]

So long as it doesn't switch in on a Surf or Boiling Water, Houndoom is a good counter.

 

[Green Mage]

It doesn't apply to celetran. Celetran is not weak to an unresisted offensive combination.

 

[Saria]

What you want in a Wishpasser now is high HP and Latias doesn't really have that - plus, Tar is EVERYWHERE...

Latias compared to blissey/ chansey is a suppar choice as a wish passer. But the problem is blissey share a fighting weakness with natoreii while latias have perfect sinergy with him. Also max HP latias have 8 HP more than natoreii so is like using wish with the old mechanic, and natoreii apreciate all the health he can get specially when he have to take DM's and Outrages every time

 

[Hooker Punch]

Zuruzukin hits both super effectively with STABs, can Shed Skin off Status, and sets up in both of their faces with Bulk Up or Dragon Dance. He gets Ice Punch to cover Latias and Zapdos, too.

 

[blasphemy1]

I don't know why people insist on comparing them to SkarmBliss when they'll likely be paired with those two, Hippowdon, Latias, Zapdos, etc. Nattorei has the advantage of being a straight up counter for Water-types, and it is immune to Toxic Spikes. Strategies like Agility Empoleon + Toxic Spikes or Crocune will lose to Nattorei, whereas they'd beat your typical SkarmBliss core. I think that's the best part- they are able to complement the current stall standards really well. A team with Latias / Burunkeru / Blissey / Nattorei / Skarmory / Nidoqueen would be difficult to break. Nattorei can use Leech Seed / Stealth Rock / Power Whip / Gyro Ball, while Burunkeru can use Boiling Water / Recover / Night Shade / Taunt.

 

[Darkamber8828]

Pokemon used other attack!

Balloon popped!

Fuck!

On a serious note, everyone go use SkarmChanNattoRungeruHippoGyara!

On an actually serious note, this is the (extra) incentive to use Doryuuzu.

Nattorei not having recovery and having to run Shed Shell really sucks, though.

 

[OldSchoolNub]

Birijion seems like a solid counter. Its offense is a bit low, but Life Orb Adamant/Modest Birijion always 2HKOs these two(Leaf Blade/Energy Ball to Burunkeru, Close Combat/Focus Blast to Nattorei).

Also, CB Adamant Birijion OHKOs Nattorei the majority of the time if it runs a nature that isn't +Def(like Careful) and OHKOs Max Def Burunkeru most of the time if Stealth Rock is in play. Scenarios are similar if it's Specs Modest Birijion. However, it's important to note that this requires excellent prediction. Leaf Blade/Energy Ball does next to nothing to Nattorei's 4x resist and nice defenses, and Close Combat/Focus Blast literally does nothing to Burunkeru. Not to mention, you're locked in which allows the opposing Pokemon to set up or heal.

 

[Korski]

I think the "it's not SkarmBliss" crowd is being overly critical with your high expectations. SkarmBliss has solid counters in Infernape and MixMence, just like any two-Pokemon combo would have. Please recall that a Pokemon team has six members, and the qualities these two Pokemon have as I outlined in the OP are more than enough to earn their places on well-built Stall teams, especially with the removal of Rotom-A from the Spinblocking mix.

I was thinking these two sets could work well together:

Nattorei @ Shed Shell
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Final Stats: 352 / 224 / 320 / x / 341 / 76

Spikes
Leech Seed
Protect
Power Whip / Gyro Ball

• EVs are maximized with X-Act's Defense EVs Applet
• Amazing 352 / 320 / 341 defenses with 11 resists.
• Power Whip vs.
  4/0 Jolly LO Doryuuzu: 55.8% on average. Jolly LO Doryuuzu does 49.7% with EQ.
  252/252+ Swampert 83.1%-98.0%
  4/0 Tyranitar: 72.5% on average.
  Standard Vaporeon: 58.9% on average.
• Protect is the amazing scouting move it's always been. Choice users trying to bluff SE attacks can be properly scouted, and you're guaranteed a turn of Leech Seed healing every other turn.
• If you can manage to get up SR and 3 layers of Spikes, you can Leech Seed on the switch, follow it up with a Protect, and take out 51% HP minimum (against a 4x SR resist) against a single grounded opponent, 61% if the opponent is neutral to SR and not a Grass-type.
• Walled pretty hard by Grass-types unless you go with Gyro Ball, which has half the PP.

Burunkeru @ Leftovers
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Final Stats: 404 / x / 262 / 207 / 246 / 156

Recover
Will-O-Wisp
Surf
Shadow Ball / Toxic

• Surf over Boiling Water for 74.5%-88.3% to Doryuuzu (vs. 63.5%-75.1% with Boiling Water) and 75.8%-89.6% to 4/0 Shanderaa (OHKO w/SR. Burunkeru takes 73.3% on average from Scarf Shanderaa Shadow Ball).
• Will-O-Wisp a necessity to handle Pursuiters and to help take down physical threats.
• Toxic is an option for Special Attackers who try to set up on it, like Lati@s or Suicune, otherwise Shadow Ball is good for expanding coverage.

A theorymon team of these two plus MixPert, RestTalk Intimidate Gyarados, SpD RestTalk/Roar/Lava Plume Heatran, and another Poke of choice, maybe Erufuun for anti-setup/stall, Wish Blissey/Latias, or some kind of Rapid Spinner, could be darn good.

I think this core has a lot of potential.

 

[blasphemy1]

Shandera wrecks this combo SO hard it's not even funny.

Nattorei will be running Shed Shell, and Shanderra probably won't have Shadow Tag for a while.

 

[EpicTurtle]

A wish passer is needed to help keep up Nattorei and his lack of reliable recovery other than that this combo seems good. It depends on the metagame and how it will work.