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Ferrothorn? psh. Blissey? pah. NIDOQUEEN FUCK YEAH.

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Darkerones, Apr 14, 2012.

  1. Darkerones

    Darkerones

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    357
    The Queen and the Tyrant



    So as soon as I found out how great Nidoqueen was I decided to make a team centered around her....in a kick ass OU sandstall team!
    This also happens to be my first stall team in 5th Gen.
    I spent hours mixing and matching wall after wall,spinblocker after spinblocker until I found a near perfect combo,and I managed to do it without using ridiculously overused Pokemon (although I did test them).

    Heres a closer look at the final result:

    [​IMG]
    Nidoqueen (F) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Poison Point
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Fire Blast
    - Stealth Rock

    The empress of stall in the lower tiers has made a trip to OU ready to wreck some shit. Behold Nidoqueen! The whole team is centered around her doing one thing and one thing only,setting up dem Toxic Spikes. Afterall,its really all it has over Gliscor and Donphan. Oh,that and one other thing.
    The ability to use a special attacks. With Fire Blast,Nidoqueen sears through common spikers Forretress and Ferrothorn as well as Scizor. Earthquake allows me to damage speccially defensive threats such as Jirachi and Tentacruel better. Black Sludge discourages Trick users that may otherwise cockblock this set.
    Stealth Rock is known as the best support move in the game for a reason,ridding Dragonite of its precious Multiscale and utterly maiming Volcarona.
    The EVs and nature give Nidoqueen a solid 300 defense,coupled with a typing that walls Terrakion along with a lot of Fighting types completely.
    Synergy-wise,Nidoqueen's immunity to Electric make Skarm and Jellicent's lives much easier,and her resistance to fighting and bug supports Tyranitar and Celebi.
    Also,lets not forget that Nidoqueen can absorb Toxic Spikes as well as put them out,giving Celebi and Jellicent an easier time doing their jobs.

    [​IMG]
    Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 240 HP / 52 Spd / 216 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Taunt
    - Recover
    - Toxic

    Jellicent is one of my special defenders,and runs a very useful dual status set. Scald can ruin physical attackers such as Landorus and Dragonite and makes it easier to handle Ferrothorn while Toxic wears down other Jellicent and helps deter bulky sweepers such as Volcarona from setting up. Taunt allows me to shut down other utility Pokemon on opposing stall teams,namely Blissey and Forretress(which explains the speed EVs,speed creep for other Jellicent),all while using Recover to get through the ordeal healthy.
    The EVs/Nature make Jellicent sufficiently bulky on the special side while dumping the remaining EVs into Speed.
    Thanks to Water Absorb,Jellicent takes Water attacks aimed at Nidoqueen and Tyranitar with pleasure.
    Jelli's Ghost typing also helps Ttar against Fighting types.
    Jellicent will often switch into Fire attacks aimed at Skarmory and Celebi as well,just not in the sun.
    Jellicent resists every move Scizor(a serious threat to a lot of this team) throws at it bar Pursuit,making it a great check to it with Scald.

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Crunch
    - Ice Punch
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake

    While this is by no means a full blown Sandstorm team, weather manipulation is a huge advantage to have when playing competitivley,and this Tyranitar does just that plus supporting the team by revenge killing common threats such as Latios,Ninetales,Heatran,Jirachi,Jellicent,Starmie,Gengar,Tornadus,Gyarados etc,the list is endless. Crunch destroys some of the psychics and ghosts I once had trouble against,including the omnipresent Reuniclus. The loss of Pursuit is noticable at times but Gliscor has been giving me headaches lately,so ive decided to use Ice Punch to surprise him (and Landorus I guess) with some frozen justice. Besides,a lot of "skilled" players will assume I pack Pursuit anyway and stay in on me.
    Stone Edge is another good STAB move that tears Volcarona apart and makes nonChoice RotomW cry. Earthquake is used over Superpower for one reason and one reason only,Jirachi. That thing is a prick,and Earthquake rightfully mauls him,Earthquake also disposes of Heatran and Toxicroak cleanly while still scoring the SE hit on other Ttar.
    The EVs and Nature maximize revenge killing potential as its Special Bulk is already awesome.
    Tyranitar takes Fire type attacks like a pro for Skarmory and Celebi,but wont appreciate burns.
    Tyranitar is also immune to Psychic type moves and resistant to Flying and Dark/Ghost,making it a good partner for Hitmontop, Nidoqueen,Celebi, and Jellicent.


    [​IMG]
    Hitmontop (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Close Combat
    - Sucker Punch
    - Foresight

    I considered Donphan for this position earlier,but then decided that 2 Ground types wouldnt do me much good. So I chose Hitmontop to be my rapid spinner. Hitmontop actually has very solid physical bulk plus Intimidate,being able to take on Gyarados and Haxorus,plus,he cleanly gets rid of Blissey and Heatran with STAB Close Combat.
    Ive never had to use Stone Edge before so I instead chose to run Foresight to spin a lot more efficiently. This helps me compete with other stall running around.
    The EVs and nature help Hitmontop take physical assults like its nothing in conjunction with Intimidate.
    Synergy-wise,Hitmontop takes Dark type attacks from the likes of Ttar like its a feather hitting him,something Jellicent appreciates.
    Hitmontop can also seriously maim Magnezone, Skarmory's longtime nemesis,and other Steel types.
    Celebi and Tyranitar also love that Hitmontop resist's Scizor's Bug type attacks. A resistance to Rock type attacks also lets it sponge assaults from Terrakion and the rare Rhyperior quite nicely.

    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 220 SDef / 36 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Giga Drain
    - Heal Bell
    - Recover
    - HP Fire

    I gave in and decided that there was little room for edginess and creativity in OU,especcially in the stall department. Cradily had to go.
    Celebi is a great team player,able to take whatever RotomW throws at it and retaliating against it and other bulky waters with Giga Drain while ridding the team of status with the ever useful Heal Bell.
    Recover provides the always welcome source of reliable recovery,while HP Fire scorches the pesky Scizors who love switching in on me,making Celebi a true check to VoltTurn.
    The EVs and Nature allow Celebi to take a real beating on the special side while also outrunning common utility pokemon.
    Celebi can take Electric and Grass attacks very well,making it a good partner for Skarmory and Jellicent.
    Resistance to Fighting and Water are ones that Tyranitar and Nidoqueen appreciates,and a resistance to Ground also makes life easier for Nidoqueen.
    The resistance to Psychic is also welcome for Hitmontop's sake.


    [​IMG]
    Skarmory (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def/ 8 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Whirlwind
    - Roost
    - Spikes
    - Brave Bird

    Skarmory is a welcome staple of stall teams,and is the hardest of my physical walls.
    Skarmory's role is to set up Spikes and then phaze to avoid getting set up on and to rack up residual damage. The moveset is pretty standard,Roost gets rid of that sometimes nasty Flying typing and provides reliable recovery to make up for the lack of Leftys on this set. Brave Bird is a nifty STAB attack to hit Grass and Fighting types with in case I get Taunted (did i mention that I never had a problem with Fighting types?). The rise in popularity of Magnezone and DragMag teams influenced my decision to put a Shed Shell on Skarm. Being able to laugh at Magnezone is pretty satisfying. The EVs/Nature give me almost unreal physical bulk,taking assaults from powerhouses like Landorus and Dragonite and barely flinching.
    Skarmory's immunity to Ground is a huge plus for Tyranitar and Nidoqueen,making switching in easy.
    A resistance to both Steel and Bug makes Scizor less of a problem.
    Skam's Steel typing provides it with resistances to Psychic,which Hitmontop and Nidoqueen appreciate,Dark/Ghost,which Jellicent and Celebi enjoy,and a pivotal resistance to Dragon. (Takes Outrages like a boss).

    Feel free to critisize!


    RETIRED MEMBERS:

    Cradily (M) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Storm Drain
    EVs: 240 HP / 88 Def / 16 SAtk/ 160 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - HP Fire
    - Toxic
    - Stealth Rock
    - Recover
  2. The QWAZ

    The QWAZ

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2012
    Messages:
    527
    nice team, but i would say you would have issues with rain teams especially steel types because they aren't hurt by toxic spikes and if hitmontop is down they can do whatever they want due to fire attacks being weakened by rain to fix this i would suggest work up virizion this is possibly thev single best pokemon to decimate rain with i'd put it over skarmory

    Virizion
    @leftovers/life orb
    ev's: 104atk/152spa/252spe
    work up
    close combat
    giga drain
    hidden power ice/ stone edge
    because most rain attacks are special virizion can easily switch and begin to boost, it also adds some offensive pressure to you're team which you really need
    hope i helped
  3. Nubagator

    Nubagator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    168
    Hi there very cool stall team, I like your creative use of pokemon!
    That said you've made the amateur stall player mistake, in having your team be incredibly vulnerable to CM reuniclus. At this point in time it 6-0s you by itself, however there's a pretty easy solution. Changing Heal Bell to Perish song on Celebi should fix help prevent direct Reuniclus sweeps, since it will always be forced out. Of course has a mere 8 pp so in some cases it may not be enough, but it's still better than nothing.

    I also really don't like Hitmontop as a spinner on this team. With your set it will never get past Jellicent, ever, which is really what it needs to do most since your team has ttar covered fine with Nidoqueen. However I do agree that you need a spinner, and so I recommend a slight moveset change, I would put Foresight over sucker punch which should leave you a good deal less vulnerable to apposing stall/ bulky spike stacking teams. I would also bump up his speed EVs to make sure you outpace Jelli.

    Lastly I feel you're quite weak to Gengar, and EP celebi, but it's hard to fix that without reconstructing your team, and I'm no team-rater. You could replace Nidoqueen with a tentacruel, and top with a SPdef DNite or Rachi, but then you open yourself up to a nasty Terrakion weakness :S
  4. Darkerones

    Darkerones

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    357
    Hmm,I Llike the Peris Song idea,ill test it.
    Ill also test Foresight,as much as i love sucker punch though...
  5. peng

    peng Formerly PenguinX

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Messages:
    469
    Hi. As Nubagator said, you seem to be incredibly weak to CM Reuniclus and pretty much any Gengar. Although Perish Song over Heal Bell on Celebi will force Reuniclus to switch-out, it most definitely isn't a long-term solution it can just come in and Calm Mind up later. Eventually you'll lose Celebi to boosted Psyshocks or being Pursuit trapped by Tyranitar or Scizor who are very common Reuniclus partners. However, I do have some suggestions that should help to patch-up these weaknesses without majorly changing the team.

    The first change I suggest would be to tweak Jellicent's moveset a little. I think that Taunt would be far more useful for your team than Toxic is, so I definitely think you should make this switch. Reuniclus has already been highlighted as the biggest threat to the team, and with Taunt you can prevent it from setting up any further or using Recover, allowing you to wear it down gradually with Scald / Shadow Ball. I've never been a fan of 2 attacks Jellicent since it means you miss-out on running either Taunt or a status move which are Jellicent's greatest assets against opposing stall, but if it works for you then I don't see a reason to change it. You could also bump up its Speed a bit if you want it to break stall better, as currently you are outsped by most Tyranitar / Skarmory / Politoed and those Blissey that have Speed investment for Scizor.

    Secondly, I would recommend replacing Heatran with a Choice Scarf Tyranitar. ScarfTar is an excellent Pokemon on stall due to its ability to trap Gengar as long as it doesn't have a Substitute up. Although this will often mean sacrificing something to get Tyranitar in for free, its a much better solution than what you are currently doing, which seems to just be 'break its subs and pray it doesn't have Pain Split' or get a lucky string of 50:50 Sucker Punch predictions with Hitmontop. Tyranitar also deals 55-65% to Bold 252 HP / 252 Def Reuniclus, meaning you can at least check it along with Jellicent's Taunt and Shadow Ball. Tyranitar also acts as a great check to Sun-teams which seems to be the main reason you were using Heatran in the first place, except you can actually damage Ninetales and aren't screwed by the rare Earthquake Venusaur. You are still incredibly weak to Dugtrio Drought teams even with this change, but so are most non-Rain stall teams. You pretty much just have to play really conservatively with Tyranitar or get a Pursuit off with Tyranitar pretty early into the game to keep Sand around. Using Scarf Tyranitar also means you can actually beat last Poke SubCM Latias who can be pretty annoying for this team, since all you really have for it in the first place is Shadow Ball / Toxic Jellicent (yay more 50:50 guesses!) and phazing it, which obviously won't work in this scenario. Tyranitar also gives you a check to LO Starmie, who in Rain 2hkos everything on your team and all you can do is Sucker Punch with Hitmontop or hope Celebi doesn't get caught by Ice Beam on the switch-in. Your team also seems a kinda weak to Calm Mind variants of Jirachi; Tyranitar resists basically all of the common moves on the set (except Water Pulse which is kinda outdated and doesn't do much anyway), and you can 2HKO them as long as you don't get paralyzed by Thunder if they have it. Basically, ScarfTar is amazing on these types of teams, please use it!

    Obviously with Heatran gone you've lost Stealth Rock. However, this is pretty easy to fix. In my opinion you should just use Poison Point Nidoqueen and give it Stealth Rock over Ice Beam or Fire Blast. Fire Blast still OHKOs Scizor with Stealth Rock up and 2HKOs Ferrothorn (assuming no rain) without the Sheer Force boost, but its not like either are doing much to you anyway.

    At the moment, Celebi is the only Pokemon thats stopping you from getting destroyed by Rotom-W, especially the non-choiced variants. However, Rotom-W is nearly always paired with Tyranitar or Scizor, who can Pursuit you for loads of damage (if not a KO) and you can't really do anything back with your moveset. With Celebi down your team doesn't have much to take on Rotom-W at all, especially if it has Pain Split or is ChestoRest. Obviously Giga Drain and Recover are staples on this set, but either Psychic or Heal Bell seem incredibly situational, so I'd like to see you replace one of them with Baton Pass. Although many people opt for U-Turn on Celebi, I find Baton Pass is far more useful to escape the clutches of Pursuiting Tyranitar and Scizor, and ultimately give you some free hazard set-up with Skarmory or Nidoqueen.

    So I think I covered just about everything I wanted to say here. Although this rate is probably massive the changes made are actually quite small and shouldn't really make much of a change to the dynamics of the team. Other than the tweaks here, this is a really interesting team, good luck!

    Just for reference, the exportable below is what the team would look like with the above changes if you decide to go with them!
    Show Hide
    Nidoqueen (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Poison Point
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Fire Blast
    - Stealth Rock

    Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 248 HP / 216 SDef / 48 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Shadow Ball
    - Recover
    - Taunt

    Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake

    Hitmontop (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Close Combat
    - Sucker Punch
    - Stone Edge

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 220 SDef / 36 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Giga Drain
    - Baton Pass
    - Recover
    - Psychic

    Skarmory (F) @ Shed Shell
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Whirlwind
    - Roost
    - Spikes
    - Brave Bird
  6. Darkerones

    Darkerones

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    357
    Wow thank you so much!
    All of your suggestions are awesome,I ussually don't really care for Sand but in this case I have to give in and use Ttar. What are your thoughts on Unnerve Tran? Celebi and Jellicent don't really like the Sand. Hitmontop isn't a huge fan of it either.
    The only thing I don't agree with is Stealth Rock on Nidoqueen,Sheer Force is the reason I even used her in the first place,and she will sorely miss the power to OHKO dragons such ad Haxorus,therefore being set up bait because she can't hit hard enough. I might just put Stealth Rock on Celebi as it forces bulky waters to switch.
  7. Nubagator

    Nubagator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    168
    If you implement Peng's changes I would remove shadow ball and use, toxic on Jellicent, so that you can better combat Volcarona. I think his changes take the team in the right direction, as they patch a lot of holes without really opening any other ones.
  8. Darkerones

    Darkerones

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    357
    Hey im working on modyfing the RMT to fit what Peng suggested. ScarfTar is godly,oh my goodness. I dont even care that this is now technically a sandstall team,i love it

    EDIT: changes made!
  9. bubbly

    bubbly

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    883
    Cool stall team, glad to see Nidoqueen getting the attention it deserves. Problem though, Hitmontop is mostly redundant with Nidoqueen. All it can really do which Nido can't is Rapid Spin. This has left you incredibly weak to Sun teams (if Tyranitar goes down, which it usually will with Dugtrio, Donphan, Will-o-wisp's and high powered Grass moves everywhere) then a standard well built sun team should break through you very easily.

    It's always very difficult to fix stall weaknesses because any change tends to open up 5 other holes. One thing you could try is this: use Toxic Spikes Roserade > Celebi, Terrakion over Hitmontop, and Claydol / Hitmontop over Nidoqueen. Terrakion together with Tyranitar will let you at least hold your own against Drought teams; the other changes give you back Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin while not hurting the teams synergy (e.g. they still beat the same threats). Doing this might weaken the team slightly against non-Sun teams though, so try this out a couple of times and see how it works. Terrakion is always nice to have to break down opposing stall (especially rain stall which tends to beat non-weather stall pretty easily), clean up in the endgame and so on.
  10. Darkerones

    Darkerones

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    357
    While the suggestions are noted,the whole point of the team is to use Nidoqueen....with the changes you suggested this team will look like nothing more than a standard Sand Team.
  11. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn the hidden heart of the ocean
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    2,826
    very interesting team, couple of changes imma suggest though.

    first, run Superpower > Earthquake on Tyranitar. it's a great surprise factor thingy and makes SD Lucario shit bricks. it'll also give you better coverage against stuff like Scrafty etc. that you need to revenge or something. next, Dugtrio sun teams eat you for breakfast.........no idea what to do here, Duggy is broken and needs to be banned as it ruins the competitive weather war system and replaces it with tons of noobs abusing herpderp ninetales + spinner + duggy + 3 sun sweepers. last thing, on Jellicent you absolutely need to run Will-O-Wisp > Toxic as it'll make dealing with stuff like Ferrothorn loads easier. oh yeah, and you might consider Perish Song over Giga Drain on Celebi, I've seen that save many an ass.

    besides all that garbage, nice team.
  12. Darkerones

    Darkerones

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    357
    Actually,Dug hasnt given too much trouble,it will usually waste time Stealth Rocking (this has sadly happned to me so many times) and EQ wont OHKO,while an EQ of my own 2HKOs it,and if the opponent doesnt realize im scarfed, EQ has a good chance of OHKOing Tales too.
    But your point is taken.
    Will O Wisp will definetley go back on Jelli.
    What should it use for STAB?
    I disagree with SuperPower,Lucario already trembles at EQ,and you do realize that Scrafty is at the bottom of OU usage right? EQ allows me to hit Tentacruel,one of this team's worst nightmares,and score an SE hit on Infernape. On top of that,even if Tar is a scarfer,i like consistent attacks.
    I used to run Perish Song but thanks to the addition of Ttar,most of the Pokemon that would usually set up on me are forced out or KOed by him anyway,so id rather not be Taunt bait.
  13. peng

    peng Formerly PenguinX

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Messages:
    469
    I know this has gone back and forth a lot but I really think you should go back to Toxic on Jellicent. Will-O-Wisp hits Ferrothorn on the switch-in I guess but I think between the 30% chance with Scald, Hitmontop and Nidoqueen, you shouldn't have many problems with Ferrothorn. Losing Toxic means you can't do much to Morning Sun or ChestoRest Volcarona, who just sets up to +2/3 against half your team and sweeps you clean.

    Definitely keep Earthquake on Tyranitar, you really need it for Psyshock / Thunder SubCMRachi and it also provides really good neutral coverage (for example hitting all of Politoed / Ferrothorn / Tentacruel for neutral or better to make them easier to wear down). Lucario is still OHKOd and Scrafty really shouldn't be an issue for this team between Skarmory and Hitmontop.
  14. Darkerones

    Darkerones

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    357
    Well both Wisp and Toxic have worked fairly well for me. Ill have to think on that one,its a tough decision. If Volca becomes that big of a threat though ill use Toxic. I ussually have no problem wearing it down with SR and Surf though,I just need to win the weather war.

    Oh and I've been considering using a more speccially defensive Skarm with Lefties,any thoughts?
  15. Darkerones

    Darkerones

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    357
    bump!
    Some minor changes
  16. Darkerones

    Darkerones

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    357
    MAJOR CHANGES PEOPLE

    Also,what do you guys think about running Lum berries on every mon with reliable recovery to make up for the loss of my cleric?

    HP Rock on Cradily??
  17. Darkerones

    Darkerones

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    357
  18. Darkerones

    Darkerones

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    357
    made some crucial changes. bump.
  19. ZoroDark

    ZoroDark

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    215
    I really should change the Lum Berries for Lefties, you already have a spinner and nidoqueen to get toxic spikes away. since you're running sand you really want to use lefties
  20. peng

    peng Formerly PenguinX

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Messages:
    469
    To me it almost feels like you are using Cradily for the sake of it, since I'm not really seeing the advantages it has over Celebi outside of the SDef boost in sand. Celebi can pull off a Specially Defensive set without being crippled by Toxic from Politoed, meaning its an arguably better check to Rain teams with far greater longevity. I feel you are really overselling Cradily's ability to cripple Volt-turn, as its easily outsped by Scizor and takes 94-110% from Choice Banded U-Turn.

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 248 HP / 216 SDef / 44 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Fire] / Heal Bell
    - Recover
    - Baton Pass / Heal Bell / Stealth Rock

    So I don't really want to reiterate what I already said like 5 posts up but I feel Baton Pass (or at the very least Hidden Power [Fire]) on SDef Celebi is the best way to patch-up you're glaring weakness to the most common offensive core in the game; Tyranitar / Scizor / Rotom-W and any 3 other Pokemon are causing huge amounts of trouble without it. I really urge you to go back to this set, since I'm really not seeing what Cradily is doing for you.

    Shed Shell > Leftovers on Skarmory please, you really need it not to get destroyed by practically any DragMag team. You need Pursuit > Ice Punch on Tyranitar to deal with Subless Gengar, Latios, Starmie etc etc etc who otherwise just switch-out and come back in later to cause more trouble, Gengar especially. I also still think you should put Rocks on Nidoqueen to free up a moveslot on Celebi (or Cradily) since you get all the same notable KOs with Sheer Force as with Poison Point.

    Basically I disgaree with all the changes you made again. I strongly feel that Poison Point SR Nidoqueen / Shed Shell Skarmory / Toxic Jellicent / ScarfTar / Hitmontop / SDef Celebi is by far the most solid version of this team and covers practically everything in the game without being majorly weak to any teamstyle. I know I ended up just repeating what I said in my last post but I think you've made this team waayyyy weaker with all these new changes!
  21. Darkerones

    Darkerones

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    357

    Im going to make two variations of the team just to satisfy my own OCD needs as well (I was reluctant to use Celebi in the first place because i hate legendaries). One of this version mostly for wifi and for fun,and one of your variation for laddering and serious battling. I agree that the Celebi variant is stronger but i felt the need to be edgy and creative,so i did sort of just throw Cradily in there as soon as I found him somewhat viable.

    What are your opinions of Foresight over Stone Edge on Hitmontop? Ive almost never had to use Stone Edge ever.

    The only real thing im still going to be stubborn on is Ice Punch on Tyranitar. Nobody will know that I dont pack Pursuit and will just assume I do,trust me,ive never had anyone actually try to switch out of Tyranitar,instead trying to do chip damage. Plus,i have a glaring Breloom/Gliscor weakness otherwise. With some residual damage i can KO both with Ice Punch.

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