Ferrothorn

[firehusky]

QC: shrang / Sweep / WreckDra
GP: P Squared / fleurdyleurse​

Overview
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Ferrothorn has solid defensive stats and a good defensive typing which gives it many of resistances. It is commonly seen on teams as a strong check to Kyogre, Latios, and Latias. Ferrothorn's support movepool is very large consisting of moves such as Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave, Spikes, and Leech Seed. Its decent Attack stat combined with Gyro Ball allows it to check many fast threats such as Mega Gengar and Xerneas. However, Ferrothorn is rendered useless by Taunt, is very slow, and has a nasty 4x weakness to Fire-type moves.

Support
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name: Support
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Gyro Ball / Power Whip
move 3: Leech Seed
move 4: Protect / Thunder Wave / Toxic
ability: Iron Barbs
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
nature: Sassy

Moves
========

Ferrothorn is one of the best entry hazard setters in Ubers thanks to its solid bulk. It fares very well against the most common Defoggers, Latios and Latias, especially if it is running a status move such as Toxic. Spikes allows Ferrothorn to pressure defensive teams, deterring them from switching. Gyro Ball is used to heavily damage faster Pokemon such as Mega Gengar and Xerneas, while Power Whip hits Kyogre, Ground Arceus, and Palkia hard; italso packs quite a punch against neutral targets. Leech Seed helps Ferrothorn recover health and, combined with entry hazards, can be used to chip away at the foe's health. Protect works well with Leech Seed and Leftovers, allowing Ferrothorn to recover HP while scouting against Choice-locked Pokemon. Thunder Wave can be used to cripple setup sweepers, but it should not be used with Gyro Ball, as Thunder Wave will lower Gyro Ball's power. Toxic wears down common switch-ins to Ferrothorn such as support Arceus formes and Defog users; as such, it has good synergy with Spikes.

Set Details
========

Iron Barbs helps Ferrothorn wear down physical attackers such as Mega Kangaskhan. Leftovers gives Ferrothorn some passive recovery, helping it avoid some crucial 2HKOs and 3HKOs. 252 HP and Special Defense EVs allow Ferrothorn to better check special attackers, such as Kyogre, while a Sassy nature further boosts Ferrothorn's special bulk. 0 Speed IVs should be used with Gyro Ball to strengthen it. Investing in Defense is also not a bad idea, as it helps Ferrothorn check powerful physical attackers such as Swords Dance Arceus variants with more ease.

Usage Tips
========

You should aim to use Ferrothorn's good defensive typing and bulk to your advantage by using it to set up entry hazards. Ferrothorn should be taking hits and trying to wear down the opposing Pokemon with residual damage from Leech Seed, entry hazards, or Toxic. Around common Fire Blast or Focus Blast users such as Dialga, Palkia, and Mewtwo, use Protect to see if they have it. It should also be noted that Gyro Ball only has 8 PP, so use it only when you have to.

Team Options
========

Ho-Oh is a good teammate for Ferrothorn, as the two work well together, and Ho-Oh appreciates Spikes support which wears down its checks and counters. Lugia can switch in to Fighting-types and a few Fire-types easily and phaze its foes to take advantage of Spikes. Water Arceus can check Ho-Oh and other Fire-types in general as well; it can also provide Defog support. Setup sweepers appreciate Ferrothorn setting up entry hazards, and using Toxic and Leech Seed to wear down bulky walls that they cannot muscle past. Ferrothorn also enjoys cleric support from Pokemon such as Blissey or Clefable, as it is easily worn down by burn damage.

Other Options
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You can opt to run Rocky Helmet over Leftovers to heavily damage Pokemon that use contact moves; however, the passive recovery from Leftovers is usually more useful. Knock Off can be used to neuter item-reliant Pokemon, such as Latios and Latias.

Checks & Counters
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**Fire-type Pokemon**: Fire-type Pokemon such as Mega Blaziken, Primal Groudon, and Ho-Oh are able to KO Ferrothorn with their STAB moves. However, Mega Blaziken and Ho-Oh are neutered by Thunder Wave and Toxic.

**Taunt**: Taunt users such as Yveltal completely shut Ferrothorn down but must be wary of Gyro Ball, Leech Seed, and status.

**Darkrai**: Darkrai can easily cripple Ferrothorn with Dark Void and proceed to use it as setup fodder if running Nasty Plot.

**Mega Sableye**: Mega Sableye stops Ferrothorn from setting up entry hazards and takes little damage from its attacks.

**Powerful Physical Wallbreakers**: Primal Groudon can easily beat Ferrothorn with Fire Punch, and Rayquaza can easily break through it with Dragon Ascent or V-create. Mega Salamence takes little damage from Gyro Ball and is unaffected by status if it is running Refresh, while it can easily render Ferrothorn setup fodder. However, all of them are annoyed by Leech Seed.

**Fire-type Coverage Moves**: Ferrothorn must be wary around Pokemon that commonly use Fire-type coverage moves, such as Fire Blast Dialga, Palkia, and Mewtwo as well as the occasional Hidden Power Fire Mega Diancie and Xerneas.

 

[firehusky]

Okay I think this is QC ready

 

[Krauersaut]

bump because this is an analysis of importance

also i'm not QC but checks and counters requires a LOT more effort

hazards shouldn't be a mandatory slot on it, and quite frankly i'd slash leech seed in first

 

[firehusky]

Ok, I'll fix that a bit

 

[firehusky]

idk what to put in checks and counters though
any ideas?

 

[Lemonade]

Assuming Ferro is running SpD set, strong physical attackers, especially Primal Groudon. Also Ray I guess, since it does 70% min and Ferro isn't that hard to wear down as long as you don't give it a bunch of free Leech Seed healing. Mence takes like 0 from Gyro Ball and cares about nothing if it has Refresh. Ofc being Leech Seeded is annoying for everything

Fire-type coverage, though there isn't too much of that

also maybe a mention of Gyro Ball's low PP in usage tips, as something to be wary of

 

[firehusky]

Changes made.

 

[Krauersaut]

"powerful physical attackers" isn't good enough, you could say the same for most pokemon in the meta

go more in depth into specific ones

also, Darkrai does not *typically* run taunt and should be given its own special mention for being able to potentially cripple Ferrothorn for the rest of the game, or, since you seem to like making things vague, you could just say "status", as ferro is weak to burns, vulnerable to sleep and, as every mon is, weak af to being frozen.

mention Dialga as a check as it can't do jack shit to dialga other than a pitiful passive damage thing in Leech Seed and fry it with fire blast

also mention Palkia being able to switch in on resist to Gyro Ball or absorb status and potentially decimate it with fire blast

on that note, "fire type coverage moves" also isn't good enough, expand that out a bit more

 

[Nayrz]

palkia 4x resists steel moves now?

 

[PISTOLERO]

more like "Krauersaut is QC now?"

 

[Krauersaut]

oops

edit:

more like "Krauersaut is QC now?"

also i'm not QC but checks and counters requires a LOT more effort

 

[firehusky]

"powerful physical attackers" isn't good enough, you could say the same for most pokemon in the meta

go more in depth into specific ones

also, Darkrai does not *typically* run taunt and should be given its own special mention for being able to potentially cripple Ferrothorn for the rest of the game, or, since you seem to like making things vague, you could just say "status", as ferro is weak to burns, vulnerable to sleep and, as every mon is, weak af to being frozen.

mention Dialga as a check as it can't do jack shit to dialga other than a pitiful passive damage thing in Leech Seed and fry it with fire blast

also mention Palkia being able to switch in on resist to Gyro Ball or absorb status and potentially decimate it with fire blast

on that note, "fire type coverage moves" also isn't good enough, expand that out a bit more

"powerful physical attackers" isn't good enough, you could say the same for most pokemon in the meta

go more in depth into specific ones

also, Darkrai does not *typically* run taunt and should be given its own special mention for being able to potentially cripple Ferrothorn for the rest of the game, or, since you seem to like making things vague, you could just say "status", as ferro is weak to burns, vulnerable to sleep and, as every mon is, weak af to being frozen.

mention Dialga as a check as it can't do jack shit to dialga other than a pitiful passive damage thing in Leech Seed and fry it with fire blast

also mention Palkia being able to switch in on resist to Gyro Ball or absorb status and potentially decimate it with fire blast

on that note, "fire type coverage moves" also isn't good enough, expand that out a bit more

k so here is what I need to do:
change powerful physical attackers to powerful physical wallbreakers
actually darkrai does sometimes run taunt, but okay I'll give it a mention
add status to checks and counters
dialga and palkia as checks
also, how do I expand fire type coverage moves?

 

[Nayrz]

**Fire Coverage Moves** - Ferrothorn must be very careful around Pokemon that commonly use Fire-type coverage, such as Fire Blast Dialga, Palkia, and Mewtwo as well as the occasional Hidden Power Fire from Mega Diancie and Xerneas.
you are welcome (im aware focus blast xern is used more and still ohkos at +2 so remove the xerneas part if you wish)

it should be mentioned that power whip also hits stuff like palkia and arceus ground if a team needs it, also packs a good punch vs neutral targets
i'd be careful calling ferrothorn a "kyogre counter" there are a few instances in which kyogre can power past ferrothorn (mainly cm if played right) and without power whip taking down kyogre becomes a tedious process. strong check is probably a better word to use here, zekrom isnt a top tier threat anymore either.
rayquaza doesnt need v-create to break ferrothorn, dragon ascent does at least 70% so that could do with rewording (c&c)
i dont think taunt should be the no1 thing that beats ferro, ho-oh, blaze and heatran destroy it and should probs move up alot. most taunt users take a pretty large hit from gyro ball (mewtwo is 2hkod as well as mega gengar while yveltal is 2hkod after sr so they must be careful switching in)
if you are gonna mention magic bounce i think just "mega sableye" is a better idea - diancie cant stop ferrothorn even with hp fire and ferrothorn will ohko with ease with either power whip or gyro

thats all i noticed so far

 

[SparksBlade]

i'm not sure rest is good ferro. You just become a sitting duck, and you need all those types of moves i.e. hazard, attack, leech seed, protect/twave something. Imo it can't replace anything for Rest.
As for the 1 attacking moveslot, i went through his movepool and it can get Knock Off, which is like the universally best move, and i think it can be used if Ferro's sole job is not to check Xern. Knock Off really messes up the Latis and Lugia and is in general a nice move imo. Could be added to OO

 

[firehusky]

K I'll get rid of rest, and put knock off in OO.

 

[firehusky]

updated everything

 

[Sweep]

Overview

In addition to offensive Kyogre variants, stress that it checks the Lati twins extremely well. It also does well vs Darkrai after it has slept something since they very rarely carry Focus Blast anymore.

Its defensive stats are fairly good by Ubers standards but nothing special (thanks to that mediocre HP stat), I'd change "high" to "solid" imo.

Support

SLASH SPIKES BEFORE STEALTH ROCK! In fact, I'd just move SR to moves bc Ferrothorn is a pretty good Spikes user in a Lati-infested metagame, especially if Ferrothorn carries a status move.

Stress that Toxic nails Defog users and therefore has good synergy with Spikes. It's a perfectly legitimate option though Protect is very often too useful to pass up.

In Set Details, mention what extra physical defense would be used for (think EKiller and other SD Arceus).

I'd remove Kyogre as a partner, regular Ogre isn't very good AND doesn't easily switch into Ho-Oh and other mons that frighten Ferro. Other Options section looks good.

 

[firehusky]

K I updated it

 

[Didoy75]

I think you can mention an alternative EVs spread: 248 HP / 96 Def / 164 SpD with a Sassy Nature allows you to check Primal-Ogre, Latis, etc. like the classic spead + checking EKiller (in a very specific situation), it allows you to take 2 +2 EQ from Jolly LO EKiller after SR if you seeded it the first turn and you protected the second turn. Of course, the strategy is very predictable, but this spread also helps checking other SD Arceus formes & other physical attackers.

 

[shrang]

Couple of things:

• Is a strong check to Kyogre, Latios, Latias, and Darkrai after Sleep Clause has been activated

Not really, Darkrai does a crapload with +2 Dark Pulses since Steel doesn't resist Dark any more. Sure you might be able to hit it once with Gyro Ball, but you won't kill it, or you can get Leech Seed on it, but you're still losing most of the time.

**Fire-type Pokemon** Fire-type Pokemon such as Mega Blaziken and Ho-Oh can roast Ferrothorn with their respective STAB moves. However, both are neutered by Thunder Wave or Toxic.

Add Primal Don to that please. In fact, one of the reasons I dislike running Ferrothorn is how big of a P Donner bait it is.

Provided you fix these two tiny things, qc approved 1/3

 

[firehusky]

Couple of things:



Not really, Darkrai does a crapload with +2 Dark Pulses since Steel doesn't resist Dark any more. Sure you might be able to hit it once with Gyro Ball, but you won't kill it, or you can get Leech Seed on it, but you're still losing most of the time.



Add Primal Don to that please. In fact, one of the reasons I dislike running Ferrothorn is how big of a P Donner bait it is.

Provided you fix these two tiny things, qc approved 1/3

done :]

 

[Sweep]

QC 2/3

 

[firehusky]

k I'll start writing this up

 

[firehusky]

k, this has been written up, ready for one last QC check and then onto GP!

 

[Lemonade]

Checks and Counters:
I don't think you should mention Trick Darkrai because it's pretty much nonexistent and not that good. Just Dark Void and setting up

Also Sweep said this:

I'd remove Kyogre as a partner, regular Ogre isn't very good AND doesn't easily switch into Ho-Oh and other mons that frighten Ferro.

Blissey and Clefable appear a few times on SPL teams with Ferro and they fit the cleric role (also can Wish Pass) you described so maybe mention those.

Usage Tips
examples of Pokemon you would expect to have Fire Blast / Focus Blast ie Dialga, Mewtwo, Palkia, maybe even potential HP Fire from Latis

nice n spamming the forum cuz I don't want to do hw