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Ubers Ferrothorn [QC: 3/3] [GP: 2/2]

Discussion in 'Preliminary Pokedex' started by blitzlefan, Feb 4, 2014.

  1. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,310
    Thanks to Dracoyoshi8 for the skeleton that was provided to me! I couldn't have written the analysis without it! :)
    [​IMG]
    Overview
    ########

    With a plethora of utility moves in its arsenal and a fantastic Grass / Steel defensive typing, which provides it with nine resistances and one immunity, Ferrothorn is a solid Pokemon that can provide support for a handful of team archetypes. Due to its good bulk and longevity, Ferrothorn can utilize entry hazards to wear down the opponent's team and is one of the most reliable, if not the most reliable, Spikers in the tier. Ferrothorn can damage its opponents with Toxic and Leech Seed and is especially obnoxious to Pokemon that rely on contact moves thanks to Iron Barbs. Ferrothorn received an indirect buff from the advent of powerful Fairy-types, most notably Xerneas, which is easily 2HKOed by Gyro Ball. However, the nerf to Drizzle means that Ferrothorn cannot tank weak Fire-type moves as reliably as it could last generation, and it subsequently lost quite a bit of staying power against certain threats. The prevalence of Defog users in the Ubers tier, most notably support Arceus formes, means the Spikes that Ferrothorn sets can be quickly removed from the field in a single turn, making them less effective. To add insult to injury, Steel-type Pokemon no longer resist Ghost- and Dark-type moves, which hampers Ferrothorn's effectiveness against threats such as Swords Dance Ghost Arceus. Although the newly introduced Fairy typing diminished Ferrothorn's role in checking Dragons, it remains a resilient entry hazard setter capable of supporting its team exceptionally well.


    Utility
    ########
    name: Utility
    move 1: Gyro Ball
    move 2: Leech Seed / Rest
    move 3: Toxic / Power Whip
    move 4: Spikes / Stealth Rock
    ability: Iron Barbs
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
    ivs: 0 Spe
    nature: Sassy

    Moves
    ========

    This set utilizes Ferrothorn's stellar 74 / 131 / 116 defensive stats and its variety of support options to check critical threats and provide general support to its team. Gyro Ball is a must for Ferrothorn as it 2HKOes Mega Gengar, a top threat in the metagame, preventing Ferrothorn from becoming fodder. Gyro Ball is a fairly reliable STAB move, and due to Ferrothorn's pathetic base 20 Speed, it usually strikes with its maximum Base Power of 150, 2HKOing Xerneas and smashing speedy threats such as Mega Mewtwo Y and Darkrai. Leech Seed chips away at an opposing Pokemon's HP and heals Ferrothorn in the process, allowing it to stall out threats and tank attacks for a longer period of time. As an added bonus, Leech Seed also allows Ferrothorn to check offensive variants of Kyogre. Though Leech Seed provides semi-reliable recovery, it cannot heal status conditions, does not affect Grass-types, and is cleared when the inflicted Pokemon switches out. Therefore, Rest is a viable alternative to Leech Seed, as it makes Ferrothorn more self-sufficient, fully restores its HP, and removes harmful status conditions such as burns, which severely inhibit Ferrothorn's defensive capabilities. In conjunction with Toxic, Rest also allows Ferrothorn to potentially stall out Defog users, as Lugia cannot damage it significantly, and most support Arceus formes can only use Will-O-Wisp and weak Judgments to hurt it. However, using Rest puts Ferrothorn to sleep, leaving it vulnerable for two turns, and cannot be used to damage opposing Pokemon.

    Toxic gives Ferrothorn the ability to cripple common switch-ins such as Ho-Oh and support Arceus formes, as well as place setup sweepers on a timer. Toxic damage compounds with Leech Seed damage and can be used to stall out opposing Pokemon. Toxic cripples Defog users so Ferrothorn can stay in on them and continuously replace the entry hazards lost to Defog. Power Whip can be used as a secondary STAB option, as it allows Ferrothorn to serve as a competent check to non-Choice Specs Kyogre. With its excellent bulk, Ferrothorn is able to repeatedly lay down entry hazards, which hinder the opposing team and punish switches with residual damage. Notably, it fairs better against Defog users than most other entry hazard setters, as it can cripple them with status moves. Spikes is the primary entry hazard as it has fairly limited distribution, as Stealth Rock can be run on a teammate. However, Spikes takes longer to set up and is therefore more vulnerable to Defog. Stealth Rock is a solid alternative, as it punishes a greater variety of threats than Spikes does, requires only one turn to set up, and is crucial in limiting the number of times Ho-Oh can switch in.

    Protect is an alternative option, as it allows Ferrothorn to scout for dangerous moves, benefit from passive recovery, and rack up Toxic and/or Leech Seed damage. The move can be exploited though, as it can give the opponent a free turn to switch to a Pokemon that threatens Ferrothorn, removing the effects of Leech Seed and resetting Toxic counters in the process. Knock Off can also provide additional utility, as it can remove the items of many targets. However, it can be difficult to fit Knock Off on Ferrothorn's moveset, and the move is mostly useless against Mega Evolutions and Arceus formes. Although having access to multiple support moves works in Ferrothorn's favor, the unfortunate truth is that it suffers from four-moveslot syndrome, as it is unable to fit all the moves it wants on a single set.

    Set Details
    ========

    Iron Barbs is the chosen ability for the residual damage it provides on physical attackers that utilize contact moves. The ability also helps to punish weaker U-turns used by Pokemon such as Landorus-T. Leftovers is the optimal item choice for Ferrothorn, as the HP regeneration provided by Leftovers and Leech Seed is too good to pass up. A Sassy nature boosts Ferrothorn's special bulk and, along with running no Speed IVs, strengthens the power of Gyro Ball. The current EV spread maximizes Ferrothorn's special bulk, allowing it to check the multitude of special attackers in the tier as effectively as possible. Although investing in Special Defense is vastly superior, Ferrothorn has the option of investing in Defense, making it more efficient against physical attackers, such as Mega Kangaskhan. Furthermore, it can serve as a backup check to certain variants of Extreme Killer Arceus, as with defensive investment, it avoids the 2HKO from a boosted Lum Berry Adamant Extreme Killer Arceus's Earthquake. The four leftover EVs are placed into Attack to provide a slight buff to Ferrothorn's physical moves.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Ferrothorn can function as a good check to a variety of top threats, tanking hits and slowly wearing them down with Leech Seed and Toxic. Ferrothorn cannot take hits from Kyogre with Choice Specs or multiple Calm Mind boosts, but is otherwise a solid check to the leviathan as it is only 3HKOed by Modest Kyogre's full-powered Water Spout. Ferrothorn can serve as a decent one-time check to unboosted Xerneas, as it can land a 2HKO with Gyro Ball. However, Ferrothorn should not switch in on a boosted Xerneas unless you are certain that it does not carry Focus Blast or Hidden Power Fire; both moves can KO Ferrothorn or damage it beyond repair. Ferrothorn can take advantage of Zekrom, setting up entry hazards against it or crippling a switch-in with Toxic. Furthermore, it can stall out Electric Arceus with Toxic fairly easily and check Palkia in rain. Ferrothorn generally beats walls that rely on Toxic to deal damage, such as Aegislash, Chansey, and Blissey, due to the immunity provided by its Steel typing, and it is able to set up entry hazards against them or pester them with Leech Seed. Ferrothorn does not have the ability to function as a pure wall, as it needs significant team support to make up for its flaws, but is a solid entry hazard setter and should be used as such.

    Be cautious when you have Ferrothorn out, as dangerous moves such as Fire Blast and Focus Blast have a very wide distribution. If you have Protect, use it to scout for these moves, but avoid being too obvious when you use Protect—telegraphing the use of the move is almost a surefire way for Ferrothorn to get set up on. Try to catch Pokemon with Leech Seed as they switch in in order to recover HP when you scout the opponent's moves with Protect. Furthermore, if a dangerous move is revealed, the HP drained by Leech Seed will benefit your chosen switch-in. Leech Seed works especially well against Chansey and Blissey due to their enormous HP stats; Ferrothorn also takes negligible net damage from Seismic Toss due to the passive recovery it receives every turn. Against faster threats, keep in mind that Gyro Ball has only eight PP, so Pressure users such as Mewtwo can quickly make it useless. If the opponent has Xerneas and you lack another solid answer to it, make sure you conserve Gyro Ball's PP.

    Team Options
    ========

    Kyogre is an outstanding partner for Ferrothorn, as although the duration of Drizzle was shortened to five turns, the rain it brings helps mitigate Ferrothorn's weakness to Fire-type moves. In return, Ferrothorn's Spikes help Kyogre secure KOs and wear down its chief check, Palkia. Ferrothorn can readily switch in on Electric- and Grass-type moves aimed at Kyogre and also use Toxic to wear down bulky checks to Kyogre, such as Grass Arceus. Clerics such as Chansey, Blissey, and Xerneas are excellent partners as well, especially for Leech Seed variants of Ferrothorn, which are very susceptible to burns. Clerics are also beneficial for Rest variants, as they can wake Ferrothorn up immediately if it needs to heal, though it should be noted that Ferrothorn is fairly good at finding free turns to wake up on its own. Ferrothorn is incinerated by Fire-type moves, so it can bait these attacks and give Ho-Oh, Kyogre, Heatran, and most Dragon-types an opportunity to switch in. Fairy-types, Ho-Oh, and Giratina can serve as decent partners too, as they can switch in on Fighting-type moves aimed at Ferrothorn and force switches, either through offensive presence or phazing, to rack up entry hazard damage. Ho-Oh is a major threat to Ferrothorn, so a partner such as Rock Arceus that can check it is appreciated. A teammate with access to a speedy Taunt can be helpful in preventing an opponent's Defog from clearing Ferrothorn's precious Spikes, ensuring that it does not set up in vain. Sweepers in general serve as great teammates, as they can use the entry hazards that Ferrothorn sets to secure OHKOs and 2HKOs, and they appreciate Ferrothorn using Toxic to wear down walls they cannot beat alone.


    Other Options
    ########

    Ferrothorn can utilize a Choice Band instead of Leftovers to catch a number of Pokemon off-guard and potentially obtain KOs with its STAB moves. However, such a set relies heavily on its surprise factor, and Pokemon that are faster and stronger can pull it off more consistently. Rocky Helmet can be considered for the extra chip damage on some physical attackers, but Leftovers is generally better as it increases Ferrothorn's longevity. However, Rocky Helmet is noteworthy for allowing Ferrothorn to quickly take down Mega Kangaskhan, as Iron Barbs and Rocky Helmet both activate twice when it attacks. Shed Shell can be run on Ferrothorn if the user is paranoid about Mega Gengar, but it is a niche option that provides no other benefits. Chople Berry is a situational item that somewhat remedies Ferrothorn's weakness to Fighting-type moves and allows it to act as a one-time check to Xerneas in rain, but like the previous items, it renders Ferrothorn dependent on Leech Seed or Rest for recovery. Thunder Wave can be used over Toxic as an alternative status move, crippling offensive threats such as Blaziken that rely on their Speed to sweep, but Gyro Ball is much weaker against paralyzed targets. Furthermore, without Toxic, Ferrothorn is unable to deal significant damage to defensive Pokemon such as Lugia and cannot stop setup sweepers as effectively. If you do choose to run Thunder Wave, use the move against opposing defensive Steel-types such as Forretress and Skarmory as late as possible, as full paralysis will give the opponent an advantage in a PP stall war. With 24 PP, Iron Head is better against Substitute users than Gyro Ball is, but is noticeably weaker against important targets such as Xerneas. Bulldoze can be used to slow down switch-ins and cripple Heatran, but it is very weak and does not provide coverage against any other relevant threats. Curse can be used to raise Ferrothorn's Attack and Defense and possibly augment the power of Gyro Ball, but is generally an inferior option as Ferrothorn lacks the power to be an effective setup sweeper. Furthermore, many threats carry Fire-type moves that can quickly dispose of Ferrothorn before or after a boost. Anticipation is Ferrothorn's hidden ability, but is largely useless, as Protect is sufficient for scouting out super effective moves, and Ferrothorn appreciates the residual damage Iron Barbs can provide.


    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Ho-Oh**: Ho-Oh is incredibly dangerous to Ferrothorn; it can easily switch in on Ferrothorn's STAB moves, force it out with the threat of a super effective Sacred Fire, set up with Substitute, and proceed to wreak havoc. Ferrothorn's weakness to Ho-Oh necessitates a partner that can deal with it, and thus straps options for teambuilding. However, the combination of Stealth Rock and Toxic can severely limit the damage it can do.

    **Heatran**: Heatran is immune to Toxic, has a 4x resistance to both Gyro Ball and Power Whip, and has access to Taunt and STAB Lava Plume.

    **Dialga**: Dialga is immune to Toxic, resists both Gyro Ball and Power Whip, and often carries Fire Blast, which decimates Ferrothorn.

    **Blaziken**: Blaziken can set up with Swords Dance or smash Ferrothorn with Flare Blitz or Low Kick. However, it can be crippled by the rare Thunder Wave as it switches in.

    **Charizard**: Mega Charizard X and Mega Charizard Y easily come in on Ferrothorn's STAB moves and threaten to KO it with Flare Blitz and Fire Blast, respectively.

    **Mega Mewtwo X**: Mega Mewtwo X can cripple Ferrothorn with Taunt and pummel it with Low Kick. Bulk Up variants of Mega Mewtwo X can use Taunt and proceed to set up, as Drain Punch recovers most of the HP lost to Gyro Ball.

    **Reshiram**: Reshiram can easily switch in on Gyro Ball or Power Whip and threaten to nuke Ferrothorn with its Fire-type STAB move of choice.

    **Mega Lucario**: Mega Lucario resists both of Ferrothorn's STAB moves, is immune to Toxic, and can annihilate Ferrothorn with a powerful Close Combat or set up with Swords Dance.

    **Fighting Arceus**: Although it is fairly uncommon, Fighting Arceus can tank Ferrothorn's STAB moves and wreck it with Judgment. However, it dislikes the residual damage from Toxic and/or Leech Seed.

    **Defensive Steel-types**: Skarmory and Forretress can use Ferrothorn as setup fodder, though Ferrothorn can set up entry hazards on them as well. However, Skarmory has Taunt and Forretress runs Rapid Spin, placing Ferrothorn in a losing position.

    **Fire-type Moves**: Ferrothorn's Grass / Steel typing brings a devastating 4x weakness to Fire-type moves, which are often run by sweepers to augment their coverage. Ferrothorn is vulnerable to Fire-type moves such as Kyurem-W's Fusion Flare in sun or in neutral weather, and is incinerated by Rayquaza's Fire-type moves even in rain due to Air Lock. Although rain support can somewhat patch up this weakness, Fire-type moves still take a large chunk of Ferrothorn's health away; for example, Lustrous Orb Palkia has a chance to 2HKO it with Fire Blast in rain.

    **Taunt**: Ferrothorn struggles against Taunt users, as they can prevent it from using non-attacking moves, greatly hindering its usefulness. Notable Taunt users include Yveltal, Mega Mewtwo X, and Sableye; the former two can smash Ferrothorn with their high-powered STAB moves, while Sableye can cripple it with Will-O-Wisp.

    **Toxic-Immune Arceus Formes**: Poison and Steel Arceus can use Defog to clear away Ferrothorn's entry hazards, cripple Leech Seed variants with Will-O-Wisp, and force Rest variants to fall asleep. However, they will engage in a PP stall war with Ferrothorn and eventually lose to variants with Rest.

    **Substitute**: Substitute works in a similar fashion to Taunt, as it blocks the non-attacking moves Ferrothorn utilizes to deal damage, namely Toxic and Leech Seed. Due to Ferrothorn's mediocre offensive presence, Substitute users such as Substitute + Roost Ho-Oh can easily use it as setup fodder.

    **Burns*: Burns from moves such as Will-O-Wisp and Scald cripple Ferrothorn unless it has Rest or the luxury of cleric support. Burns render Ferrothorn's attacks mostly useless and allow a greater variety of threats to break through it. Furthermore, the constant HP loss associated with a burn prevents Ferrothorn from walling threats to its maximum potential.
    SKELETON (open)


    Overview
    ########

    - Access to numerous utility moves and useful defensive typing
    - One of the most reliable, if not the most reliable, Spikers in the tier
    - Can use Toxic and/or Leech Seed to wear down the opponent, especially those that rely on direct contact moves
    - 5-turn Drizzle makes it unable to tank weak Fire-type moves as reliably as it did previous gen, though some notable special moves were nerfed which helps slightly
    - Serious 4MSS
    - Gyro Ball backed by base 94 attack is reasonably powerful, can 2HKO Xerneas - with pathetic base 20 Spe so usually high BP
    - prevalence of Defog means Spikes aren't as good as in last gen
    - Steel no longer resists Ghost and Dark ;_;
    - NEW HIDDEN ABILITY ANTICIPATION!!!!!!!


    Utility
    ########
    name: Utility
    move 1: Gyro Ball
    move 2: Leech Seed / Rest
    move 3: Toxic / Power Whip
    move 4: Spikes / Stealth Rock / Protect
    ability: Iron Barbs
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Sassy
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
    ivs: 0 Spe

    Moves
    ========

    - Gyro Ball 2HKOs Xerneas and Mega Gengar, hits faster sweepers (e.g. MMY, Darkrai)
    - Leech Seed doesn't heal burn, but doesn't put Ferrothorn to sleep and also damages the opponent
    - Rest makes Ferrothorn more self sufficient and allows it to heal burn, which it despises, recover HP and potentially stall out defoggers; having something with Aromatherapy or Heal Bell is highly recommended
    - Toxic gives Ferrothorn the ability to beat Lugia and certain Arceus (these are defoggers!)
    - Power Whip is an option to smack Kyogre and other weather setters (e.g. Groudon, Tyranitar on the switch)
    - Spikes and Stealth Rock work well on Ferrothorn because it fairs better off against Defog users than most other hazard setters residual damage benefits team
    - Protect can be used to scout and get free healing from Leech Seed / Leftovers / Toxic damage but can be exploited by switch / set up move
    - Knock Off provides great utility but can be difficult to fit on the set

    Set Details
    ========

    - Max HP for max bulk - patch up base 74 HP
    - You can either invest into Defense or Special Defense to fit your team's needs
    - For example, if you have Groudon, consider investing in Special Defense in order to switch in on Kyogre more safely, but SpD is much much better
    - Minimum Speed for MAXIMUM DAMAGE
    - Always use Leftovers, the HP regeneration between Leech Seed and Leftovers is too good
    - Ferrothorn gets more utility out of status moves or Protect, so having another Stealth Rock user is beneficial
    - Iron Barbs for residual damage on physical attacks and punishing weaker U-turns
    - if team needs it, a spread of 252 HP / 68 Atk / 188 SpD can be use to guarantee the OHKO on Rash all-out attacker Xerneas after SR (no investment needed for those with a nature that reduces Def)

    Usage Tips
    ========

    - Good check to a lot of threats such as Kyogre, Zekrom, Electric Arceus, Palkia in rain and can combat some support Arceus formes
    - generally beats walls that rely on toxic (e.g. blobs and aegi) due to immunity and leech seed restoring HP
    - If you have Protect, use it to scout Fire- and Fighting-type moves; Flamethrower and Focus Blast have a WIDE distribution
    - DO NOT switch it in on an Xerneas that has already set up unless you know it doesn't have Focus Blast or Hidden Power Fire
    - Ferrothorn cannot take hits from Kyogre with Choice Specs or multiple Calm Mind boosts, but is otherwise a solid check
    - Gyro Ball has only 8 PP, keep this in mind when using it, especially against Pressure users. If they have Xerneas, make sure you save some if for it if you lack any other solid answer
    - Try to catch Pokemon with Leech Seed on the switch; that way you can recover HP while scouting with Protect and it will benefit your switch-in
    - Iron Barbs activates twice against Mega Kangaskhan when it uses contact moves
    - For Ferrothorn vs Ferrothorn/Forretress/Skarmory/etc, if you have Thunder Wave, delay paralyzing it as long as you can; the full paralysis will give the opponent a PP advantage

    Team Options
    ========

    - Although Drizzle got nerfed, Ferrothorn still appreciates having it up, so Kyogre works reasonably well; Kyogre also loves having Spikes support and Ferrothorn can readily switch in on Electric and Grass moves
    - Clerics like Blissey and Xerneas are great if you are running Leech Seed and still useful for when you are not, as burn is greatly limits Ferrothorns survivability. Also can be used to wake up Ferrothorn after Rest though it's good at finding free turns to wake up
    - Fire-type moves are Ferrothorn's bane, but can be used to bait them; Ho-Oh, Rock Arceus, Kyogre, Heatran and most Dragon-types can use them as an opportunity to switch in
    - Fairy-types, Ho-Oh, and Giratina, can also switch in on Fighting-type moves
    - setup sweepers in general appreciate hazards to secure OHKOs and 2HKOs as well as Toxic wearing down certain walls
    - a teammate with access to a fast Taunt can be helpful in preventing Defog from clearing Ferro's precious hazards


    Other Options
    ########

    - Choice Band can catch a number of Pokemon off guard with OHKOes and 2HKOes using Gyro Ball and Power Whip, but relies heavily on surprise and can be done more reliably with faster and stronger Pokemon
    - Iron Head is more effective against Substitute than Gyro Ball, as it has higher PP
    - Thunder Wave can be used over Toxic, but it will weaken Gyro Ball and doesn't allow you to beat many defensive Pokemon
    - With Bulldoze you can really hurt Heatran and the Speed drop will be annoying to many switch-ins
    - If you have SERIOUS GONADS, then you can try Curse jk don't do it plz
    - Rocky Helmet is cute, but Leftovers + Leech Seed is generally going to be better. Good for counterteaming your friends who use Mega Kangaskhan
    - anticipation lol


    Checks & Counters
    ########

    - Fire-type moves, especially outside of Rain (also Rayquaza V-Create in Rain)
    - Substitute users can really mess with Ferro (e.g. SubRoost Ho-Oh), though it can set Spikes
    - Taunt messes up Ferrothorn pretty bad, especially Taunt Roost/Oblivion Wing Yveltal
    - Mewtwo also has a speedy Taunt, and Fire Blast (MM and MMY) or Low Kick (MMX)
    - Ferrothorn hates getting burned
    - Skarmory, Bronzong, and Forretress can use it as set up bait, but Ferrothorn can set up on them as well
    - Heatran is immune to Toxic, 4x resists Gyro Ball AND Power Whip and has STAB Lava Plume
    - Dialga immune to Toxic, resists Gyro Ball and Power Whip and has Fire Blast for coverage
    - Mega Blaziken, Mega Lucario, Mega Mewtwo X, Terrakion and Fighting Arceus can all dent it with Fighting-STABs, although Blazikens is much safer using Flare Blitz
    - Poison Arceus and Steel Arceus can Defog hazards away, cripple Leech Seed Ferro using WoW or force it to rest; eventually loses to Rest variants and causes PP stall
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2014
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  2. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!

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  3. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!

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    Posting to say that I'm done writing up the analysis - hoping for that last QC check! Suggestions for additions / corrections would be appreciated too! :)
  4. Hack

    Hack formerly Hack He Must
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

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    Overview
    This is good, no changes needed imo.

    Utility-set
    Rather than slashing Protect with the entry hazards, I'd slash it in the slot with Toxic and Power Whip. Very simply put, every Ferrothorn should use some entry hazard to give opposing players incentive to switch in support Arceus, which you can the Leech Seed or/and Toxic accordingly. If you are opting for Ferrothorn in this metagame anyway, you should really be looking at its qualities in beating Defogers and therefore getting up hazards realiably and not look too much on what it walls (cause it doesn't wall too many offensive threats after all). The set should look like:

    move 1: Gyro Ball
    move 2: Leech Seed / Rest
    move 3: Toxic / Power Whip / Protect
    move 4: Stealth Rock / Spikes

    Or you simply mention Protect in set details. It's hard to fit- Gyro is a much, and a healing move of some sort together with Toxic gives you the ability to set up hazards and keep them up. The logic again, is simply that Toxic and Rest/Leech Seed works as tools to get up hazards multiple times. If you forgo the hazard of your choice then you are having a blunt wall that has a big, exploitable weakness and can't really counter many offensive threats (i.e. Kyogre, Palkia, Mewtwo) effectively. Also, note the switch in the preferred hazard- Stealth Rock goes first because of Ferrothorn's ability to keep it up reliably. Stealth Rock is also more important considering Ho-oh, and as you claimed yourself, Spikes-stacking is harder to pull off. With the reslashing of the moves, you will have to make some minor changes in set details, obviously.

    Remove this, better examples of a Toxic target are miscellaneous Defog Arceus-formes.

    You should really pretty much always use Sdef Ferro, Groudon isn't really the most accurate example of a partner that forces Ferrothorn to invest in sdef. Pretty much, just mention that Defense is shitty and can be used in some very specific scenarios (but who the would rely on Ferro to check Ekiller for example). I don't love the mention of Chansey as a partner. Not only does this combination compound both Ho-oh and Blaziken weakness- but it is also possible for Gengar to remove both of these mons without having to resort to dbond suicide: 252 SpA Mega Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 208-246 (59 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Chansey is also not worth the support it needs to function simply because it cannot check Kyogre, and Ferrothorn can't do that either- meaning that you will still, even when using both these sdef walls- need a sponge for Kyogre. Maybe Palkia is a better example of a partner that can handle Kyogre, but again, Defensive spreads are really iffy and not worth it, so put emphasis on that. If you want to include a good example of where defensive Ferro is worth it, you can mention Kanga.

    The last part about Xerneas must be rewritten.
    +2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 374-442 (106.2 - 125.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Ferrothorn is by no means a fail safe to Xerneas. A Rash all-out attacker still does 69.3 - 82.1% with LO Focus Blast, and you flat out lose to Geomancy using HP Fire or Focus Blast, both common.

    Conclusion: As you see from the calcs and examples of partners etc. it shows that Ferrothorn is a quite flawed mon that needs a lot of team support to handle big threats, while it's like Chansey in a way- it doesn't exactly wall enough stuff to be a pure wall. That's why it is important to make sure to emphasize that it is a solid hazard setter instead.

    Other options
    Shed Shell and Chople Berry. The former is a niche option if you are paranoid about Gengar, the latter actually makes you a one-time check to Xerneas in rain. You probably know what the disadvantages of using these items are, so I won't go deeper into that.

    Checks and counters
    Ho-oh. Heatran, which is almost irrelevant, gets an own paragraph, so you get the idea. In general I feel you have been too nice on Ferrothorn's weakness to Ho-oh throughout the analysis. It is really painful to have a mon not only giving almost free switch ins to Ho-oh, but also giving free Substitutes to it when it's in. This straps options for teambuilding as it is almost necessary to include a switch-in to Ho-oh, and that is much harder than just putting pressure on it like you can with other builds.

    Implement this and

    QC approved 3/3
  5. Manaphy

    Manaphy

    Joined:
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    Disagreeing on making Stealth Rock first slash. The move has good enough distribution that you can easily fit it somewhere else on your team. A lot of the point of trying to kill Defog Arceus in the first place is so that you can Spike Stack anyway.
    Ho-Oh can just switch-in on you Stealth Rocking anyway. Considering people will commonly run this with Toxic and Kyogre I really don't see this as a boon for Stealth Rock at all.
  6. Hack

    Hack formerly Hack He Must
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

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    Yes, it does switch in as you set it, but Ferrothorn has a good niche in that it can very easily keep SR up, a big boon in the metagame. After SR is set, Ho-oh has considerable problems switching in reliably, a Toxic on the switch without SR is just a timer- add SR and you have put big pressure on it. Since Ferro is good at beating defogers, SR will be hard to remove for Ho-oh based teams, which is a big boon if you are using Ferrothorn anyway. Having two hazard users is cool if you can fit it, and then Spikes is good because of its low distribution, but if you want to compress your team to having one hazard mon (which can be very good in a lot of cases), then Ferrothorn is excellent since it's probably the stand alone best SR user at keeping SR up without much support.
  7. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!

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    Hack He Must, I've finished implementing the changes you suggested! Please look it over before I mark it as GP ready (I'm sick / feeling pretty awful, and I might have missed something).
  8. Manaphy

    Manaphy

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    We're talking about slashing here though- IMO Spikes deserves first slash as it's a very rare move to have in this metagame and Rocks can be set up with other teammates. Not much to be said really
  9. Melee Mewtwo

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    Honestly, there's a lot of good SR setters in this meta. If you are talking about the ones that can stick in on the defogger and wait out the toxic turns then Dialga is probably the best at that. Speaking of which, Spikes is probably the biggest reason you'd pick a ferro over a dialga in the first place. Imo, spikes are more imporatnt and protect can just be left as a move details mention and not slashed.
    Manaphy likes this.
  10. Melee Mewtwo

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    Okay, just a few things I missed with DY8's analysis (didn't look at his checks and counters section or something for some reason lol) and in the write up. I don't understand the Thunder Wave mention in the usage tips in the last sentence as you don't mention thunder wave anywhere else before that sentence. (it's actually all the way down in OO) I also don't get the spread for checking all out Xern as that set often runs Focus Blast which beats Ferro to a pulp.

    I kinda feel like you didn't properly explain the key reasons for some of the move choice (I mean you put good reasons but not the super crucial ones for the slashing choies etc.). Basically..
    -gyro is a must cause mega gengar is top threat and you don't want to be fodder for him (the other kills are just bonus)
    -leech seed is recovery but also allows your ferro to check offensive kyogres which you don't if you run rest
    -rest heals burns though (you go that bit)
    -toxic cripples defogers which means (with ferro resistences) you can spam him on the defogger and keep replacing spikes
    -p whip is there if you want to check kyogre (i think you got that bit too)
    -hazards are hazards (no gripes with that)

    Also for the checks and counters section, add a Charizard bullet (both Y and X in one). You might want to split up the fighting type section into individual mons per bullet like you did with the fire types cause they each have varying degrees of effectiveness depending on how well they switch in etc. I don't think it's worth mention in Bronzong as a check as it's just spikes fodder and SR isn't a fair trade, skarm/forry/dialga can at least taunt/spin/roast. In general, organize your checks and counters section from most effective checks (like Heatran) to the least effective/general dangers (sub/taunt etc). (also take into consideration how effective that check is in general. It's not an exact science though so dw too much about making sure the order is perfect)
  11. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!

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    Changes:
    - Protect is no longer a slash; subsequent changes made to Moves
    - Eliminated alternative EV spread; it's impractical and is unneeded (my bad)
    - Moved Thunder Wave mention from Usage Tips to Other Options, and clarified the meaning
    - More emphasis on Mega Gengar in why Gyro Ball is required
    - Leech Seed helping beat offensive Kyogre also mentioned
    - Replacing Spikes on Defog users added to benefits of Toxic
    - Spikes reslashed before Stealth Rock
    - Charizard added in Checks and Counters
    - Checks and Counters section reorganized, but if somebody could look it over and give me suggestions it'd be appreciated

    Hopefully I did this right!
  12. Melee Mewtwo

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    Looks good imo, good job.
  13. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!

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    Alright, thank you! If there aren't any other issues, I'll move this analysis into GP by the end of the day. :)
  14. Fireburn

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    Mention Reshiram and Kyu-W w/Fusion Flare too. Otherwise everything looks fine!
  15. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!

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    As Reshiram beats Ferrothorn fairly easily (resists both STABs + threatens with Blue Flare/Fusion Flare), I gave it its own bullet point in Checks and Counters. On the other hand, since Gyro Ball can KO Kyurem-W after Stealth Rock as it switches in, I simply mentioned Kyurem-W in the bullet "Fire-type Moves".

    I hope this reasoning makes sense! Thank you!
  16. blitzlefan

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    Moving this analysis to GP!
  17. Calm Pokemaster

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    Overview
    ########

    With a plethora of utility moves in its arsenal and an excellent Grass / Steel defensive typing, which provides it with nine resistances and one immunity, Ferrothorn is a solid Pokemon that can provide support for a handful of team archetypes. Due to its good bulk and longevity, Ferrothorn can utilize entry hazards to wear down the opponent's team, (remove comma) and is one of the most reliable, if not the most reliable, Spikers in the tier. Ferrothorn can damage its opponents with Toxic and Leech Seed, (remove comma) and is especially obnoxious to Pokemon that rely on contact moves, thanks to Iron Barbs. Ferrothorn received an indirect buff from the advent of powerful Fairy-types, most notably Xerneas, which is easily 2HKOed by Gyro Ball. However, the nerf to Drizzle means that Ferrothorn cannot tank weak Fire-type moves as reliably as it could last generation, and it subsequently lost quite a bit of staying power against certain threats. The prevalence of Defog users in the Ubers tier, most notably support Arceus formes, means the Spikes that Ferrothorn sets can be quickly removed from the field in a single turn, making them less cost-effective. To add insult to injury, Steel-type Pokemon no longer resist Ghost- and Dark-type moves, which hampers Ferrothorn's effectiveness against threats such as Swords Dance Ghost Arceus. Although the newly introduced Fairy typing diminished Ferrothorn's role in checking Dragons, it remains a resilient hazard setter capable of supporting its team exceptionally well.


    Utility
    ########
    name: Utility
    move 1: Gyro Ball
    move 2: Leech Seed / Rest
    move 3: Toxic / Power Whip
    move 4: Spikes / Stealth Rock
    ability: Iron Barbs
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Sassy
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
    ivs: 0 Spe

    Moves
    ========

    This set utilizes Ferrothorn's excellent 74/131/116 defensive stats and its variety of support options to check critical threats and provide general support to its team. Gyro Ball is required a must (I felt this emphasises Gyro Ball's importance better) for Ferrothorn as it 2HKOes Mega Gengar, a top threat in the metagame, preventing Ferrothorn from becoming fodder for the specter. Gyro Ball is a fairly reliable STAB move, and due to Ferrothorn's pathetic base 20 Speed, it usually strikes with a its maximum Base Power of 150, 2HKOing Xerneas and smashing speedy threats such as Mega Mewtwo Y and Darkrai. Leech Seed chips away at an opposing Pokemon's HP and heals Ferrothorn in the process, allowing it to stall out threats and tank attacks for a longer period of time. As an added bonus, Leech Seed also allows Ferrothorn to check offensive variants of Kyogre. Though Leech Seed provides semi-reliable recovery, it cannot heal status conditions, does not affect Grass-types, and is cleared when the inflicted Pokemon switches out. Therefore, Rest is a viable alternative to Leech Seed, as it makes Ferrothorn more self-sufficient, fully restores its HP, and removes harmful status conditions such as burns, which severely inhibit Ferrothorn's defensive capabilities. In conjunction with Toxic, Rest also allows Ferrothorn to potentially stall out Defog users, as Lugia cannot damage it significantly, (add comma) and most support Arceus formes can only use Will-O-Wisp and weak Judgments to hurt it. However, using Rest puts Ferrothorn to sleep, leaving it vulnerable for two turns, and cannot be used to damage opposing Pokemon.

    Toxic gives Ferrothorn the ability to cripple common switch-ins such as Ho-Oh and support Arceus formes, as well as place setup sweepers on a timer. Toxic damage compounds with Leech Seed damage and can be used to stall out opposing Pokemon. Toxic cripples Defog users, so Ferrothorn can stay in on them and continuously replace the hazards lost to Defog. Power Whip can be used as a secondary STAB option, as it allows Ferrothorn to serve as a competent check to non-Choice Specs Kyogre. With its excellent bulk, Ferrothorn is able to repeatedly lay down entry hazards, which hinder the opposing team and punish switches with residual damage. Hazards are good choices for Ferrothorn as Notably, it fairs better against Defog users than most other hazard setters, as it can cripple them with status moves. Spikes is the primary entry hazard, (remove comma) as it has fairly limited distribution, and Stealth Rock can be run on a teammate. However, Spikes takes longer to set up and is therefore more vulnerable to Defog. Stealth Rock is a solid alternative, as it punishes a greater variety of threats than Spikes does, requires only one turn to set up, and is crucial in limiting the number of times Ho-Oh can switch in.

    Protect is an alternative option, as it allows Ferrothorn to scout for dangerous moves, benefit from passive recovery, and rack up Toxic and/or Leech Seed damage. The move can be exploited though, as it can give the opponent a free turn to switch to a Pokemon that threatens Ferrothorn, removing the effects of Leech Seed and resetting Toxic counters in the process. Knock Off can also provide additional utility, as it can remove the items of many targets. However, it can be difficult to fit Knock Off on Ferrothorn's moveset, and the move is mostly useless against Mega Evolutions and Arceus formes. Although having access to multiple support moves works in Ferrothorn's favor, the unfortunate truth is that it suffers from four-moveslot syndrome, as it is unable to fit all the moves it wants on a single set.

    Set Details
    ========

    Iron Barbs is the chosen ability for the residual damage it provides on physical attackers that utilize contact moves. As an extra bonus, the ability helps to punish weaker U-turns used by Pokemon such as Landorus-T. Leftovers is the optimal item choice for Ferrothorn, as the HP regeneration provided by Leftovers and Leech Seed is too good to pass up. A Sassy nature boosts Ferrothorn's special bulk, (remove comma) and, (add comma) along with running no Speed IVs, strengthens the power of Gyro Ball. The current EV spread maximizes Ferrothorn's special bulk, allowing it to check the multitude of special attackers in the tier as effectively as possible. Although investing in Special Defense is vastly superior, Ferrothorn has the option of investing in Defense, making it more efficient against physical attackers, such as Mega Kangaskhan. Furthermore, it can serve as a backup check to certain variants of the Extreme Killer, as with defensive investment, it avoids the 2HKO from a boosted Lum Berry Adamant Extreme Killer's Earthquake. The four leftover EVs are placed into Attack to provide a slight buff to its physical moves.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Ferrothorn can function as a good check to a variety of top threats, tanking hits and slowly wearing them down with Leech Seed and Toxic. Ferrothorn cannot take hits from Kyogre with Choice Specs or multiple Calm Mind boosts, but is otherwise a solid check to the leviathan as it is only 3HKOed by Modest Kyogre's full-powered Water Spout. Ferrothorn can serve as a decent one-time check to unboosted Xerneas, as it can land a 2HKO with Gyro Ball. However, Ferrothorn should not switch in on a boosted Xerneas unless you are certain that it does not carry Focus Blast or Hidden Power Fire; both moves can KO Ferrothorn or damage it beyond repair. Ferrothorn can take advantage of Zekrom, setting up hazards against it or crippling the switch-in with Toxic. Furthermore, it can stall out Electric Arceus with Toxic fairly easily, (remove comma) and can check Palkia in rain. Ferrothorn generally beats walls that rely on Toxic to deal damage, such as Aegislash, Chansey, and Blissey, (add comma) due to the immunity provided by its Steel typing, and it is able to set up entry hazards against them or pester them with Leech Seed. Ferrothorn does not have the ability to function as a pure wall, as it needs significant team support to make up for its flaws, but is a solid hazard setter, (remove comma) and should be used as such.

    Be cautious when you have Ferrothorn out, as dangerous moves such as Fire Blast and Focus Blast have a very wide distribution. If you have Protect, use it to scout for these moves, but avoid being too obvious when you use Protect—telegraphing the use of the move is almost a surefire way for Ferrothorn to get set up on. Try to catch Pokemon with Leech Seed as they switch in, in order to recover HP when you scout the opponent's moves with Protect. Furthermore, if a dangerous move is revealed, the HP drained by Leech Seed will benefit your chosen switch-in. Leech Seed works especially well against Chansey and Blissey, (remove comma) due to their enormous HP stats; Ferrothorn also takes negligible net damage from Seismic Toss, due to the passive recovery it receives every turn. Against faster threats, keep in mind that Gyro Ball has only eight PP, so Pressure users such as Mewtwo can quickly make it useless. If the opponent has Xerneas and you lack another solid answer to it, make sure you conserve Gyro Ball's PP.

    Team Options
    ========

    Kyogre is an excellent partner for Ferrothorn, as although the duration of Drizzle was shortened to five turns, the rain it brings helps mitigate Ferrothorn's weakness to Fire-type moves. In return, Ferrothorn's Spikes help Kyogre secure KOs and wear down its chief check, Palkia. Ferrothorn can readily switch in on Electric- and Grass-type moves aimed at the whale, (remove comma) and can also use Toxic to wear down bulky checks to Kyogre, such as Grass Arceus. Clerics such as Chansey, Blissey, and Xerneas are excellent partners as well, especially for Leech Seed variants of Ferrothorn, which are very susceptible to burns. Clerics are also beneficial for Rest variants, as they can wake Ferrothorn up immediately if it needs to heal, though it should be noted that Ferrothorn is fairly good at finding free turns to wake up on its own. Ferrothorn is incinerated by Fire-type moves, so it can bait fiery attacks and give Ho-Oh, Kyogre, Heatran, and most Dragon-types an opportunity to switch in. Fairy-types, Ho-Oh, and Giratina can serve as decent partners too, as they can switch in on Fighting-type moves aimed at Ferrothorn and can force switches, either through offensive presence or phazing, to rack up entry hazard damage. Ho-Oh is a major threat to Ferrothorn, so a partner such as Rock Arceus that can check the phoenix is appreciated. A teammate with access to a speedy Taunt can be helpful in preventing an opponent's Defog from clearing Ferrothorn's precious hazards, ensuring that it does not set up in vain. Sweepers in general serve as excellent teammates, as they can use the hazards that Ferrothorn sets to secure OHKOs and 2HKOs, and they appreciate Ferrothorn using Toxic to wear down walls they cannot beat alone.


    Other Options
    ########

    Ferrothorn can utilize a Choice Band instead of Leftovers to catch a number of Pokemon off-guard and potentially obtain KOs with its STAB moves. However, such a set relies heavily on its surprise factor, and Pokemon that are faster and stronger can pull it off more consistently. Rocky Helmet can be considered for the extra chip damage on some physical attackers, but Leftovers is generally better as it increases Ferrothorn's longevity. However, Rocky Helmet is noteworthy for allowing Ferrothorn to quickly take down Mega Kangaskhan, as Iron Barbs and Rocky Helmet both activate twice when it attacks. Shed Shell can be run on Ferrothorn if the user is paranoid about Mega Gengar, but it is a niche option that provides no other benefits. Chople Berry is a situational item that somewhat remedies Ferrothorn's weakness to Fighting-type moves and allows it to act as a one-time check to Xerneas in rain, but like the previous items, it renders Ferrothorn dependent on Leech Seed or Rest for recovery. Thunder Wave can be used over Toxic as an alternative status move, crippling offensive threats such as Blaziken that rely on their Speed to sweep, but Gyro Ball is much weaker against paralyzed targets. Furthermore, without Toxic, Ferrothorn is unable to deal significant damage to defensive Pokemon such as Lugia, (remove comma) and cannot stop setup sweepers as effectively. If you do choose to run Thunder Wave, use the move against opposing defensive Steel-types such as Forretress and Skarmory as late as possible, as full paralysis will give the opponent an advantage in a PP stall war. With 24 PP, Iron Head is better against Substitute users than Gyro Ball is, but is noticeably weaker against important targets such as Xerneas. Bulldoze can be used to slow down switch-ins and cripple Heatran, but it is very weak and does not provide coverage against any other relevant threats. Curse can be used to raise Ferrothorn's Attack and Defense and possibly augment the power of Gyro Ball, but is generally an inferior option as Ferrothorn lacks the power to be an effective setup sweeper. Furthermore, many threats carry Fire-type moves that can quickly dispose of Ferrothorn before or after a boost. Anticipation is Ferrothorn's hidden ability, but is largely useless, as Protect is sufficient for scouting out super effective moves, and Ferrothorn appreciates the residual damage Iron Barbs can provide.


    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Ho-Oh**: Ho-Oh is incredibly dangerous to Ferrothorn; it Ho-Oh can easily switch in on Ferrothorn's STAB moves, force it out with the threat of a super effective Sacred Fire, set up with Substitute, and proceed to wreak havoc. Ferrothorn's weakness to Ho-Oh necessitates a partner that can deal with it, and thus straps options for teambuilding. However, the combination of Stealth Rock and Toxic can severely limit the damage it can do.

    **Heatran**: Heatran is immune to Toxic, has a 4x resistance to both Gyro Ball and Power Whip, and has access to Taunt and STAB Lava Plume.

    **Dialga**: Dialga is immune to Toxic, resists both Gyro Ball and Power Whip, and often carries Fire Blast, which decimates Ferrothorn.

    **Blaziken**: Blaziken can set up with Swords Dance or smash Ferrothorn with Flare Blitz or Low Kick. However, it can be crippled by the rare Thunder Wave as it switches in.

    **Charizard**: Mega Charizard X and Mega Charizard Y easily come in on Ferrothorn's STAB moves and threaten to KO it with Flare Blitz or and Fire Blast, respectively.

    **Mega Mewtwo X**: Mega Mewtwo X can cripple Ferrothorn with Taunt and pummel it with Low Kick. Bulk Up variants of Mega Mewtwo X can use Taunt and proceed to set up, as Drain Punch recovers most of the HP lost to Gyro Ball.

    **Reshiram**: Reshiram can easily switch in on Gyro Ball or Power Whip and threaten to nuke Ferrothorn with its Fire-type STAB move of choice.

    **Mega Lucario**: Mega Lucario resists both of Ferrothorn's STAB moves, is immune to Toxic, and can annihilate Ferrothorn with a powerful Close Combat or set up with Swords Dance.

    **Fighting Arceus**: Although it is fairly uncommon, Fighting Arceus can tank Ferrothorn's STAB moves and wreck it with Judgment. However, it dislikes the residual damage from Toxic and/or Leech Seed.

    **Defensive Steel-types**: Skarmory, and Forretress can use Ferrothorn as setup fodder, though Ferrothorn can set up hazards on them as well. However, Skarmory has Taunt and Forretress runs Rapid Spin, placing Ferrothorn in a losing position.

    **Fire-type Moves**: Ferrothorn's Grass / Steel typing brings a devastating 4x weakness to Fire-type moves, which are often run by sweepers to augment their coverage. Ferrothorn is vulnerable to Fire-type moves such as Kyurem-W's Fusion Flare in sun or in neutral weather, (remove comma) and is incinerated by Rayquaza's Fire-type moves even in rain, due to Air Lock. Although rain support can somewhat patch up this weakness, Fire-type moves still take a large chunk of Ferrothorn's health away; for example, Lustrous Orb Palkia has a chance to 2HKO it with Fire Blast in rain.

    **Taunt**: Ferrothorn struggles against Taunt users, as they can prevent it from using non-attacking moves, greatly hindering its usefulness. Notable Taunt users include Yveltal, Mega Mewtwo X, and Sableye; the former two can smash Ferrothorn with their high-powered STAB moves, while Sableye can cripple it with Will-O-Wisp.

    **Toxic-immune Arceus formes**: Poison Arceus and Steel Arceus can use Defog to clear Ferrothorn's hazards, cripple Leech Seed variants with Will-O-Wisp, and force Rest variants to fall asleep. However, they will engage in a PP stall war with Ferrothorn and eventually lose to variants with Rest.

    **Substitute**: Substitute works in a similar fashion to Taunt, as it blocks the non-attacking moves Ferrothorn utilizes to deal damage, namely Toxic and Leech Seed. Due to Ferrothorn's mediocre offensive presence, Substitute users such as Substitute + Roost Ho-Oh can easily use it as setup fodder.

    **Burns*: Burns from moves such as Will-O-Wisp and Scald cripple Ferrothorn unless it has Rest or the luxury of cleric support. Burns render Ferrothorn's Gyro attacks (I didn't get this: what does 'Gyro attacks' mean?) mostly useless and allow a greater variety of threats to break through it. Furthermore, the constant HP loss associated with a burn prevents Ferrothorn from walling threats to its maximum potential.


    Just one point I would like to point out: don't bifurcate two verb phrases with a comma. This resource on commas should help you with any other doubts regarding comma usage: do check it out! This was a pretty good write-up otherwise, so -

    [​IMG]

    GP 1 / 2
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2014
    blitzlefan likes this.
  18. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!

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    Thank you very much! I've always been a bit unsure about comma usage, so I'll definitely read that article. Oh and "Gyro attacks" used to read Gyro Ball, but then I remembered that Power Whip was slashed too, so I tried to change it to "attacks" (and failed lol). I'll implement these changes when I have access to my laptop. Thanks again!

    Also, just another GP question: what words do we capitalize in the titles for the Checks and Counters section? I was unsure of this when I was writing the analysis. Is there a rule for this?
  19. Furai

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    its Checks and Counters
  20. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!

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    Errr... I meant like: Is it "Fire-type Moves" or "Fire-type moves"? "Toxic-immune Arceus formes" or "Toxic-Immune Arceus Formes"?
    How does the capitalization work for the titles? Hopefully a GP member could chime in on this too! Thanks!

    Also, the changes from the first GP check have been implemented - the analysis is ready for a second check!
  21. GatoDelFuego

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    It looks like all words are capitalized, but "Fire-types" is one "word" and "Toxic-Immune" is a compound adjective formed by two real words, as opposed to our "coined word" "-types"

    I might do this later but this ain't a placeholder
  22. GatoDelFuego

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    This is actually the placeholder

    blitzlefan

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    Overview
    ########

    With a plethora of utility moves in its arsenal and a fantastic Grass / Steel defensive typing, which provides it with nine resistances and one immunity, Ferrothorn is a solid Pokemon that can provide support for a handful of team archetypes. Due to its good bulk and longevity, Ferrothorn can utilize entry hazards to wear down the opponent's team and is one of the most reliable, if not the most reliable, Spikers in the tier. Ferrothorn can damage its opponents with Toxic and Leech Seed and is especially obnoxious to Pokemon that rely on contact moves, (RC) thanks to Iron Barbs. Ferrothorn received an indirect buff from the advent of powerful Fairy-types, most notably Xerneas, which is easily 2HKOed by Gyro Ball. However, the nerf to Drizzle means that Ferrothorn cannot tank weak Fire-type moves as reliably as it could last generation, and it subsequently lost quite a bit of staying power against certain threats. The prevalence of Defog users in the Ubers tier, most notably support Arceus formes, means the Spikes that Ferrothorn sets can be quickly removed from the field in a single turn, making them less cost-effective. To add insult to injury, Steel-type Pokemon no longer resist Ghost- and Dark-type moves, which hampers Ferrothorn's effectiveness against threats such as Swords Dance Ghost Arceus. Although the newly introduced Fairy typing diminished Ferrothorn's role in checking Dragons, it remains a resilient entry hazard setter capable of supporting its team exceptionally well.


    Utility
    ########
    name: Utility
    move 1: Gyro Ball
    move 2: Leech Seed / Rest
    move 3: Toxic / Power Whip
    move 4: Spikes / Stealth Rock
    ability: Iron Barbs
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Sassy
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
    ivs: 0 Spe

    Moves
    ========

    This set utilizes Ferrothorn's stellar 74 / 131 / 116 defensive stats and its variety of support options to check critical threats and provide general support to its team. Gyro Ball is a must for Ferrothorn as it 2HKOes Mega Gengar, a top threat in the metagame, preventing Ferrothorn from becoming fodder for the specter. Gyro Ball is a fairly reliable STAB move, and due to Ferrothorn's pathetic base 20 Speed, it usually strikes with its maximum Base Power of 150, 2HKOing Xerneas and smashing speedy threats such as Mega Mewtwo Y and Darkrai. Leech Seed chips away at an opposing Pokemon's HP and heals Ferrothorn in the process, allowing it to stall out threats and tank attacks for a longer period of time. As an added bonus, Leech Seed also allows Ferrothorn to check offensive variants of Kyogre. Though Leech Seed provides semi-reliable recovery, it cannot heal status conditions, does not affect Grass-types, and is cleared when the inflicted Pokemon switches out. Therefore, Rest is a viable alternative to Leech Seed, as it makes Ferrothorn more self-sufficient, fully restores its HP, and removes harmful status conditions such as burns, which severely inhibit Ferrothorn's defensive capabilities. In conjunction with Toxic, Rest also allows Ferrothorn to potentially stall out Defog users, as Lugia cannot damage it significantly, and most support Arceus formes can only use Will-O-Wisp and weak Judgments to hurt it. However, using Rest puts Ferrothorn to sleep, leaving it vulnerable for two turns, and cannot be used to damage opposing Pokemon.

    Toxic gives Ferrothorn the ability to cripple common switch-ins such as Ho-Oh and support Arceus formes, as well as place setup sweepers on a timer. Toxic damage compounds with Leech Seed damage and can be used to stall out opposing Pokemon. Toxic cripples Defog users, (RC) so Ferrothorn can stay in on them and continuously replace the entry hazards lost to Defog. Power Whip can be used as a secondary STAB option, as it allows Ferrothorn to serve as a competent check to non-Choice Specs Kyogre. With its excellent bulk, Ferrothorn is able to repeatedly lay down entry hazards, which hinder the opposing team and punish switches with residual damage. Notably, it fairs better against Defog users than most other entry hazard setters, as it can cripple them with status moves. Spikes is the primary entry hazard as it has fairly limited distribution, and as Stealth Rock can be run on a teammate. However, Spikes takes longer to set up and is therefore more vulnerable to Defog. Stealth Rock is a solid alternative, as it punishes a greater variety of threats than Spikes does, requires only one turn to set up, and is crucial in limiting the number of times Ho-Oh can switch in.

    Protect is an alternative option, as it allows Ferrothorn to scout for dangerous moves, benefit from passive recovery, and rack up Toxic and/or Leech Seed damage. The move can be exploited though, as it can give the opponent a free turn to switch to a Pokemon that threatens Ferrothorn, removing the effects of Leech Seed and resetting Toxic counters in the process. Knock Off can also provide additional utility, as it can remove the items of many targets. However, it can be difficult to fit Knock Off on Ferrothorn's moveset, and the move is mostly useless against Mega Evolutions and Arceus formes. Although having access to multiple support moves works in Ferrothorn's favor, the unfortunate truth is that it suffers from four-moveslot syndrome, as it is unable to fit all the moves it wants on a single set.

    Set Details
    ========

    Iron Barbs is the chosen ability for the residual damage it provides on physical attackers that utilize contact moves. As an extra bonus, The ability also helps to punish weaker U-turns used by Pokemon such as Landorus-T. Leftovers is the optimal item choice for Ferrothorn, as the HP regeneration provided by Leftovers and Leech Seed is too good to pass up. A Sassy nature boosts Ferrothorn's special bulk and, along with running no Speed IVs, strengthens the power of Gyro Ball. The current EV spread maximizes Ferrothorn's special bulk, allowing it to check the multitude of special attackers in the tier as effectively as possible. Although investing in Special Defense is vastly superior, Ferrothorn has the option of investing in Defense, making it more efficient against physical attackers, such as Mega Kangaskhan. Furthermore, it can serve as a backup check to certain variants of the Extreme Killer Arceus, as with defensive investment, it avoids the 2HKO from a boosted Lum Berry Adamant Extreme Killer Arceus's Earthquake. The four leftover EVs are placed into Attack to provide a slight buff to its Ferrothorn's physical moves.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Ferrothorn can function as a good check to a variety of top threats, tanking hits and slowly wearing them down with Leech Seed and Toxic. Ferrothorn cannot take hits from Kyogre with Choice Specs or multiple Calm Mind boosts, but is otherwise a solid check to the leviathan as it is only 3HKOed by Modest Kyogre's full-powered Water Spout. Ferrothorn can serve as a decent one-time check to unboosted Xerneas, as it can land a 2HKO with Gyro Ball. However, Ferrothorn should not switch in on a boosted Xerneas unless you are certain that it does not carry Focus Blast or Hidden Power Fire; both moves can KO Ferrothorn or damage it beyond repair. Ferrothorn can take advantage of Zekrom, setting up entry hazards against it or crippling it on the switch-in with Toxic. Furthermore, it can stall out Electric Arceus with Toxic fairly easily and check Palkia in rain. Ferrothorn generally beats walls that rely on Toxic to deal damage, such as Aegislash, Chansey, and Blissey, due to the immunity provided by its Steel typing, and it is able to set up entry hazards against them or pester them with Leech Seed. Ferrothorn does not have the ability to function as a pure wall, as it needs significant team support to make up for its flaws, but is a solid entry hazard setter and should be used as such.

    Be cautious when you have Ferrothorn out, as dangerous moves such as Fire Blast and Focus Blast have a very wide distribution. If you have Protect, use it to scout for these moves, but avoid being too obvious when you use Protect—telegraphing the use of the move is almost a surefire way for Ferrothorn to get set up on. Try to catch Pokemon with Leech Seed as they switch in, (RC) in order to recover HP when you scout the opponent's moves with Protect. Furthermore, if a dangerous move is revealed, the HP drained by Leech Seed will benefit your chosen switch-in. Leech Seed works especially well against Chansey and Blissey due to their enormous HP stats; Ferrothorn also takes negligible net damage from Seismic Toss, (RC) due to the passive recovery it receives every turn. Against faster threats, keep in mind that Gyro Ball has only eight PP, so Pressure users such as Mewtwo can quickly make it useless. If the opponent has Xerneas and you lack another solid answer to it, make sure you conserve Gyro Ball's PP.

    Team Options
    ========

    Kyogre is an outstanding partner for Ferrothorn, as although the duration of Drizzle was shortened to five turns, the rain it brings helps mitigate Ferrothorn's weakness to Fire-type moves. In return, Ferrothorn's Spikes help Kyogre secure KOs and wear down its chief check, Palkia. Ferrothorn can readily switch in on Electric- and Grass-type moves aimed at the whale Kyogre and also use Toxic to wear down bulky checks to Kyogre, such as Grass Arceus. Clerics such as Chansey, Blissey, and Xerneas are excellent partners as well, especially for Leech Seed variants of Ferrothorn, which are very susceptible to burns. Clerics are also beneficial for Rest variants, as they can wake Ferrothorn up immediately if it needs to heal, though it should be noted that Ferrothorn is fairly good at finding free turns to wake up on its own. Ferrothorn is incinerated by Fire-type moves, so it can bait these fiery attacks and give Ho-Oh, Kyogre, Heatran, and most Dragon-types an opportunity to switch in. Fairy-types, Ho-Oh, and Giratina can serve as decent partners too, as they can switch in on Fighting-type moves aimed at Ferrothorn and force switches, either through offensive presence or phazing, to rack up entry hazard damage. Ho-Oh is a major threat to Ferrothorn, so a partner such as Rock Arceus that can check the phoenix it is appreciated. A teammate with access to a speedy Taunt can be helpful in preventing an opponent's Defog from clearing Ferrothorn's precious Spikes hazards, ensuring that it does not set up in vain. Sweepers in general serve as great teammates, as they can use the entry hazards that Ferrothorn sets to secure OHKOs and 2HKOs, and they appreciate Ferrothorn using Toxic to wear down walls they cannot beat alone.


    Other Options
    ########

    Ferrothorn can utilize a Choice Band instead of Leftovers to catch a number of Pokemon off-guard and potentially obtain KOs with its STAB moves. However, such a set relies heavily on its surprise factor, and Pokemon that are faster and stronger can pull it off more consistently. Rocky Helmet can be considered for the extra chip damage on some physical attackers, but Leftovers is generally better as it increases Ferrothorn's longevity. However, Rocky Helmet is noteworthy for allowing Ferrothorn to quickly take down Mega Kangaskhan, as Iron Barbs and Rocky Helmet both activate twice when it attacks. Shed Shell can be run on Ferrothorn if the user is paranoid about Mega Gengar, but it is a niche option that provides no other benefits. Chople Berry is a situational item that somewhat remedies Ferrothorn's weakness to Fighting-type moves and allows it to act as a one-time check to Xerneas in rain, but like the previous items, it renders Ferrothorn dependent on Leech Seed or Rest for recovery. Thunder Wave can be used over Toxic as an alternative status move, crippling offensive threats such as Blaziken that rely on their Speed to sweep, but Gyro Ball is much weaker against paralyzed targets. Furthermore, without Toxic, Ferrothorn is unable to deal significant damage to defensive Pokemon such as Lugia and cannot stop setup sweepers as effectively. If you do choose to run Thunder Wave, use the move against opposing defensive Steel-types such as Forretress and Skarmory as late as possible, as full paralysis will give the opponent an advantage in a PP stall war. With 24 PP, Iron Head is better against Substitute users than Gyro Ball is, but is noticeably weaker against important targets such as Xerneas. Bulldoze can be used to slow down switch-ins and cripple Heatran, but it is very weak and does not provide coverage against any other relevant threats. Curse can be used to raise Ferrothorn's Attack and Defense and possibly augment the power of Gyro Ball, but is generally an inferior option as Ferrothorn lacks the power to be an effective setup sweeper. Furthermore, many threats carry Fire-type moves that can quickly dispose of Ferrothorn before or after a boost. Anticipation is Ferrothorn's hidden ability, but is largely useless, as Protect is sufficient for scouting out super effective moves, and Ferrothorn appreciates the residual damage Iron Barbs can provide.


    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Ho-Oh**: Ho-Oh is incredibly dangerous to Ferrothorn; it can easily switch in on Ferrothorn's STAB moves, force it out with the threat of a super effective Sacred Fire, set up with Substitute, and proceed to wreak havoc. Ferrothorn's weakness to Ho-Oh necessitates a partner that can deal with it, and thus straps options for teambuilding. However, the combination of Stealth Rock and Toxic can severely limit the damage it can do.

    **Heatran**: Heatran is immune to Toxic, has a 4x resistance to both Gyro Ball and Power Whip, and has access to Taunt and STAB Lava Plume.

    **Dialga**: Dialga is immune to Toxic, resists both Gyro Ball and Power Whip, and often carries Fire Blast, which decimates Ferrothorn.

    **Blaziken**: Blaziken can set up with Swords Dance or smash Ferrothorn with Flare Blitz or Low Kick. However, it can be crippled by the rare Thunder Wave as it switches in.

    **Charizard**: Mega Charizard X and Mega Charizard Y easily come in on Ferrothorn's STAB moves and threaten to KO it with Flare Blitz and Fire Blast, respectively.

    **Mega Mewtwo X**: Mega Mewtwo X can cripple Ferrothorn with Taunt and pummel it with Low Kick. Bulk Up variants of Mega Mewtwo X can use Taunt and proceed to set up, as Drain Punch recovers most of the HP lost to Gyro Ball.

    **Reshiram**: Reshiram can easily switch in on Gyro Ball or Power Whip and threaten to nuke Ferrothorn with its Fire-type STAB move of choice.

    **Mega Lucario**: Mega Lucario resists both of Ferrothorn's STAB moves, is immune to Toxic, and can annihilate Ferrothorn with a powerful Close Combat or set up with Swords Dance.

    **Fighting Arceus**: Although it is fairly uncommon, Fighting Arceus can tank Ferrothorn's STAB moves and wreck it with Judgment. However, it dislikes the residual damage from Toxic and/or Leech Seed.

    **Defensive Steel-types**: Skarmory, (RC) and Forretress can use Ferrothorn as setup fodder, though Ferrothorn can set up entry hazards on them as well. However, Skarmory has Taunt and Forretress runs Rapid Spin, placing Ferrothorn in a losing position.

    **Fire-type Moves**: Ferrothorn's Grass / Steel typing brings a devastating 4x weakness to Fire-type moves, which are often run by sweepers to augment their coverage. Ferrothorn is vulnerable to Fire-type moves such as Kyurem-W's Fusion Flare in sun or in neutral weather, and is incinerated by Rayquaza's Fire-type moves even in rain, (RC) due to Air Lock. Although rain support can somewhat patch up this weakness, Fire-type moves still take a large chunk of Ferrothorn's health away; for example, Lustrous Orb Palkia has a chance to 2HKO it with Fire Blast in rain.

    **Taunt**: Ferrothorn struggles against Taunt users, as they can prevent it from using non-attacking moves, greatly hindering its usefulness. Notable Taunt users include Yveltal, Mega Mewtwo X, and Sableye; the former two can smash Ferrothorn with their high-powered STAB moves, while Sableye can cripple it with Will-O-Wisp.

    **Toxic-Immune Arceus formes**: Poison Arceus and Steel Arceus can use Defog to clear away Ferrothorn's entry hazards, cripple Leech Seed variants with Will-O-Wisp, and force Rest variants to fall asleep. However, they will engage in a PP stall war with Ferrothorn and eventually lose to variants with Rest.

    **Substitute**: Substitute works in a similar fashion to Taunt, as it blocks the non-attacking moves Ferrothorn utilizes to deal damage, namely Toxic and Leech Seed. Due to Ferrothorn's mediocre offensive presence, Substitute users such as Substitute + Roost Ho-Oh can easily use it as setup fodder.

    **Burns*: Burns from moves such as Will-O-Wisp and Scald cripple Ferrothorn unless it has Rest or the luxury of cleric support. Burns render Ferrothorn's attacks mostly useless and allow a greater variety of threats to break through it. Furthermore, the constant HP loss associated with a burn prevents Ferrothorn from walling threats to its maximum potential.

    Nice work!

    [​IMG]
    2/2
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2014
  23. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!

    Joined:
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    GatoDelFuego
    Mostly implemented, but there's one thing. You changed it to: "Ferrothorn can take advantage of Zekrom, setting up entry hazards against it or crippling it on the switch with Toxic."

    However, I meant that since Ferrothorn forces Zekrom out, Ferrothorn can cripple a Ho-Oh as it switches in, rather than crippling Zekrom. "Ferrothorn can take advantage of Zekrom, setting up entry hazards against it or crippling a switch-in with Toxic." Is this okay?
  24. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego This is what is technically known as a Firecat
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Mentor

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    blitzlefan That's perfect; I just didn't read into it enough.
  25. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!

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    This analysis should be done then! Thanks to everybody who helped me finish this!
    Cobalt314 likes this.

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