OU Ferrothorn

TheEnder

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QC Checks: [AlexWolf, Valentine, Jukain]
GP Checks: [The Dutch Plumberjack, Jukain]

Overview
########

Ferrothorn has a lot to love as a defensive Pokemon. First and foremost, it has a great Grass / Steel typing and solid mixed bulk. Together, its unique set of resistances and bulk allow Ferrothorn to check a plethora of threats. In addition to this, Ferrothorn has access to a wide array of support moves, such as Stealth Rock, Spikes, Leech Seed, and Thunder Wave. Because it has decent offensive presence, Ferrothorn can be hard to switch into for many offensively-oriented teams. However, while Ferrothorn's typing gives it a great set of resistances, it also gives it a glaring 4x weakness to Fire-type attacks, which means that Ferrothorn is easily forced out by Fire-type opponents. In addition to this, some special attackers, such as Latios and Greninja, can get past Ferrothorn if they are carrying Hidden Power Fire. Ferrothorn's typing also leaves it vulnerable to being trapped by the increasingly common Magnezone. Lastly, Ferrothorn's Speed is terrible, which means it has to rely on surviving an attack before using a move itself.

Utility
########
name: Utility
move 1: Stealth Rock / Spikes
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Gyro Ball / Power Whip
move 4: Protect / Power Whip / Thunder Wave
ability: Iron Barbs
item: Leftovers / Shed Shell
evs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
ivs: 0 Spe
nature: Relaxed / Sassy

Moves
========

Ferrothorn is a consistent setter of Stealth Rock because of its great bulk and ability to beat common entry hazard removers, such as Latios, Latias, and Excadrill. Spikes lets Ferrothorn heavily pressure defensively oriented teams, which it can't do when running Stealth Rock. Because of its ability to take on common hazard removers, Ferrothorn is also one of the best defensive Spikes setters. Leech Seed gives Ferrothorn a way recovering health and is a must on every Ferrothorn set, as it lacks reliable recovery. The damage Leech Seed does is also useful for chipping away at the opponent's health. Gyro Ball is Ferrothorn's primary choice for an attacking move, as it OHKOes Mega Gardevoir, and does significant damage to many fast Pokemon such as Latios, Latias, Landorus, and Fairy-types such as Clefable and Sylveon. If taking on Substitute Mega Gyarados and hitting Azumarill, Keldeo, Excadrill, and Hippowdon is more important to your team, Power Whip is an option over Gyro Ball. Protect in tandem with Leech Seed grants Ferrothorn even more recovery and can scout the opponent's next move. If not running Leftovers, Ferrothorn desperately needs all recovery it can get, so to make up for the loss of recovery from Leftovers, running Protect to gain more recovery from Leech Seed is a smart choice. If this isn't all that important to your team, Power Whip is an option over it as it gives Ferrothorn good neutral coverage in tandem with Gyro Ball. If the ability to cripple common switch-ins such as Mega Charizard X, Mega Charizard Y, and Heatran is important, Thunder Wave is an option for the last moveslot. Lastly, Knock Off is an option to annoy common switch-ins by removing their item, such as Heatran's, Zapdos's and Mew's Leftovers, and can be run in the last moveslot.

Set Details
========

The given EV spread with a Relaxed nature lets Ferrothorn fare well against both physically and specially oriented opponents. 168 Special Defense EVs give Ferrothorn enough special bulk to live two Ice Beams from +3 Manaphy. A Sassy nature with the given EV spread allows Ferrothorn to live the combination of Hyper Voice + Focus Blast from Modest Mega Gardevoir most of the time, while still avoiding the 2HKO from +1 Mega Gyarados's Earthquake most of the time. However, the EV spread can be tweaked as much as you like; full investment in Defense lets Ferrothorn take on strong physical attackers such as Life Orb Excadrill and Diggersby, while full investment in Special Defense lets it always live Hyper Voice + Focus Blast from Modest Mega Gardevoir.

Leftovers is the preferred item, as Ferrothorn heavily appreciates the added recovery. However, Shed Shell is an alternative over Leftovers if the ability to escape from Magnezone and Gothielle is more valuable to your team than the extra recovery Leftovers provides. Rocky Helmet is an alternate option over Leftovers or Shed Shell in order to weaken physical attackers that try to hit Ferrothorn with weaker attacks, such as U-turn, Knock Off, and not very effective moves that make contact.

Usage Tips
========

It's advised to send in Ferrothorn on a Pokemon that does not really threaten it, such as Azumarill, Chansey, opposing Ferrothorn, Slowbro, or Suicune, and proceed to set up Stealth Rock or Spikes. Leech Seed is the most spammable move in the moveset, and if the opposing team lacks a Pokemon that is immune to it, it's more than likely favorable to use it. Playing carefully with Protect is advised, as it can be easy to take advantage of. Its main uses are letting Ferrothorn gain extra recovery in a pinch and scouting for lures like Hidden Power Fire Greninja and Latios. You should always scout for this type of moves by using Protect or switching out, especially if Ferrothorn is important to beat the opposing team. If the opposing team has a Defogger capable of switching safely into Ferrothorn, such as Skarmory or Zapdos, pulling double switches to stop them from Defogging is smart. Lastly, if not running Shed Shell, it's advised to play carefully around trappers such as Magnezone and Gothitelle, especially if Ferrothorn is important to take on a member of the opposing team.

Team Options
========

Pokemon that are capable of dealing with Fire-types such as Mega Charizard X, Mega Charizard Y, Talonflame, and Heatran make good teammates. Heatran excels at this role, especially if holding an Air Balloon. It can also set Stealth Rock, which allows Ferrothorn to run Spikes. Defiant users that can take advantage of the opponent trying to remove Ferrothorn's entry hazards with Defog, such as Bisharp and Thundurus, also make good teammates. If running a Sassy nature, Ferrothorn's physical walling capabilities are reduced, so Pokemon that can deal with strong physical attackers such as Life Orb Excadrill and Diggersby make great teammates. Defensive Landorus-T is one of the best choice, as it is also capable of running Stealth Rock. Fairy-types such as Clefable and Azumarill also make good partners becuase they can take on Fighting-types and Hidden Power Fire Greninja. Lastly, Keldeo and Infernape make good teammates, as they are capable of beating Mega Scizor and Bisharp, both of which can use Ferrothorn as setup fodder.

Other Options
########

While Ferrothorn has access to quite a few support moves, it doesn't really have many other options than the ones mentioned in the main set. Bulldoze hits Heatran and Magnezone hard, but it will not OHKO either of them. Toxic can be used to punish bulky switch-ins, such as Zapdos, Mew, and Mandibuzz, while Curse is a decent boosting option, as Ferrothorn has high Special Defense and is immune to Toxic. Rest is an an option alongside Leech Seed for semi-reliable recovery. It should be noted that Ferrothorn has to drop a utility move if running Rest, however. If Ferrothorn is run on Trick Room teams, Explosion is an option, as it does a lot of damage to most opponents and gains momentum for the team. With its decent offensive stats, it also has the option to run a Choice Band set, but such a set is gimmicky and wastes Ferrothorn's potential as a support Pokemon.

Checks & Counters
########

**Fire-types**: Fire-types such as Mega Charizard X, Mega Charizard Y, Talonflame, and Heatran resist Ferrothorn's STAB attacks and can OHKO Ferrothorn with their respective Fire-type STAB attacks. However, Mega Charizard X and Talonflame must be wary of the recoil damage from Flare Blitz and Iron Barbs.

**Zapdos**: Zapdos resists both Ferrothorn's STAB moves and can threaten Ferrothorn out with Heat Wave or Defog its entry hazards away.

**Mega Venusaur**: Mega Venusaur takes little-to-no damage from Power Whip, can tank Ferrothorn's Gyro Balls, and can do significant damage in return with Hidden Power Fire. Mega Venusaur is also immune to Leech Seed, so it only has to be wary of the uncommon Thunder Wave.

**Magnezone**: If Ferrothorn is not running Shed Shell, Magnezone can trap Ferrothorn with Magnet Pull and proceed to do a lot of damage with Hidden Power Fire. Magnezone also fears very little from Ferrothorn, as it resists its STAB attacks.

**Mega Scizor**: With the combination of Roost and Swords Dance, Mega Scizor uses Ferrothorn as setup fodder, as it fears nothing that Ferrothorn can throw at it.

**Clefable**: With maximum investment in Defense, Clefable can outstall Ferrothorn's Gyro Balls, and proceed to set up Calm Mind. It can also 2HKO Ferrothorn with unboosted Flamethrowers.

**Fighting-types**: Strong Fighting-types, such as Terrakion, Keldeo, Mega Heracross, and Mega Medicham, can do hefty amounts of damage to Ferrothorn with their STAB moves, if not OHKO it. They all have to be wary of Gyro Ball or Power Whip, however.

**Taunt**: Taunt users that fear little from Ferrothorn's attacks, such as Mew and Mandibuzz, completely shut it down, as Ferrothorn can't use Leech Seed when Taunted.
 
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Albacore

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I'd have Thunder Wave mentioned as a way of severely crippling Latis while they Defog your Spikes away and just providing really annoying utility in general. Also helps a lot if you're using Ferro mainly as support for a wallbreaker (with Spikes chipping away at switchins and obviously TWave being great support for most wallbreakers).
 

TheEnder

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I'd have Thunder Wave mentioned as a way of severely crippling Latis while they Defog your Spikes away and just providing really annoying utility in general. Also helps a lot if you're using Ferro mainly as support for a wallbreaker (with Spikes chipping away at switchins and obviously TWave being great support for most wallbreakers).
thanks, implemented :]
 

Lumari

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You should probably mention that Thunder Wave and Gyro Ball can't really be used on the same set because they're extremely counterproductive with each other.
 

aim

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I'd slash shed shell since Magnezone is definitely becoming common enough to use it. Goes nicely with protect. and yeah ^
 

TheEnder

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Why Spikes need their own set instead of a slash in the main set, and a separate explanation under Moves, Usage Tips, and Team Options?
I'd slash shed shell since Magnezone is definitely becoming common enough to use it. Goes nicely with protect. and yeah ^
PMd

EDIT: Taking this back to WIP until a decision is made.
 
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Jukain

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TheEnder if it wasn't clear in the PM, you should make this into an entire update of Ferrothorn, as Spikes on its own does not warrant an entire set.
 
Gyro Ball OHKOs Mega Gardevoir and does significant damage to Latios, Latias, Lanodrus and Fairy-types such as Clefable and Sylveon.
Actually, Clefable doesn't take much damage from Gyro Ball:
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (51 BP) vs. 252 HP / 96 Def Clefable: 120-144 (30.4 - 36.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (51 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 92-110 (23.3 - 27.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
 

TheEnder

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Actually, Clefable doesn't take much damage from Gyro Ball:
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (51 BP) vs. 252 HP / 96 Def Clefable: 120-144 (30.4 - 36.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (51 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 92-110 (23.3 - 27.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (97 BP) vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Clefable: 212-252 (53.8 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

that is significant imo (relaxed + 0 spe ivs needed).
 
I know ORAS aren't released but I suggest 252 HP / 136 +Def / 120 SpD as a new spread.
With this spread, you have 0,4% chance to be 2HKOed by +1 Crunch Mega Gyarados and LO Kyurem-B.


"The 168 EVs in Special Defense gives Ferrothorn enough special bulk to live two Ice Beams from +3 Manaphy."
Ice Beam Manaphy is extremely rare now, Manaphy runs RD+TG with Scald/Surf and Psychic or RD+CM.
 
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TheEnder

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I know ORAS aren't released but I suggest 252 HP / 136 +Def / 120 SpD as a new spread.
With this spread, you have 0,4% chance to be 2HKOed by +1 Crunch Mega Gyarados and LO Kyurem-B.
ik, but this is for XY as of now, so i guess we save that spread for the oras revamp :|
 

alexwolf

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In the overview, add that outside of Fire-types, many special attackers can get past it by carrying Hidden Power Fire. Also, i would remove Gothitelle and stick to Magnezone, Gothitelle can trap like every single defensive Pokemon, so there is no need to mention it in every single overview, and it's not that popular anyway.

Mention scouting for HP Fire on Pokemon such as Latios, Latias, Greninja, etc, with either Protect or switching out in usage tips.

In checks and counters, add HP Fire Mega Venusaur, Magnezone, SD + Roost Mega Scizor, and CM Clefable.

Great job!

QC APPROVED 1/3
 

TheEnder

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In the overview, add that outside of Fire-types, many special attackers can get past it by carrying Hidden Power Fire. Also, i would remove Gothitelle and stick to Magnezone, Gothitelle can trap like every single defensive Pokemon, so there is no need to mention it in every single overview, and it's not that popular anyway.

Mention scouting for HP Fire on Pokemon such as Latios, Latias, Greninja, etc, with either Protect or switching out in usage tips.

In checks and counters, add HP Fire Mega Venusaur, Magnezone, SD + Roost Mega Scizor, and CM Clefable.

Great job!

QC APPROVED 1/3
did this
 

Lumari

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Overview
########

Ferrothorn has a lot to love in as a defensive Pokemon. First and foremost, it has a great Grass / Steel typing and great mixed bulk. The unique set of resistances its typing provoides provides, in tandem with its defensive stats, allows Ferrothorn to check a plethora of threats. In addition to this, Ferrothorn has access to a wide array of support moves, such as Stealth Rock, Spikes, Leech Seed, (AC) and Thunder Wave. Becuase Because it has decent offensive presence, Ferrothorn can be hard to switch into for many offensively-oriented (add hyphen) teams. However, while Ferrothorn's typing gives it a great set of resistances, it also gives it a glaring 4x weakness to Fire-type attacks, which means Ferrothorn is easily forced out against Fire-type opponents. In addition to this, some special attackers, such as Latios as Greninja, can get past Ferrothorn if they are carrying Hidden Power Fire. Ferrothorn's typing also leaves it vulnerable to trapping by the increasingly common Magnezone. Lastly, Ferrothorn's Speed is terrible, which means it has to rely on surviving an attack before using a move itself.

Utility
########
name: Utility
move 1: Stealth Rock / Spikes
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Gyro Ball / Power Whip
move 4: Protect / Power Whip / Thunder Wave
ability: Iron Barbs
item: Leftovers / Shed Shell
evs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
ivs: 0 Spe
nature: Relaxed / Sassy
ivs: 0 Spe

Moves
========

Ferrothorn is a consistent setter of Stealth Rock, (RC) because of its great bulk and ability to beat common entry hazard removers, such as Latios, Latias, and Excadrill. Spikes lets Ferrothorn heavily pressure defensively oriented teams, which is an ability it lacks it can't do when running Stealth Rock. Because of its capability to take on common hazard removers, Ferrothorn is also one of the best defensive Spikes setters. Leech Seed lets gives Ferrothorn have a way recovering to recover health, (RC) and is a must on every version of Ferrothorn set, as it lacks reliable recovery. The damage Leech Seed does is also useful for chipping away at the opponent's (add apostrophe) health. Gyro Ball is Ferrothorn's primary choice of attacking moves, as it OHKOs OHKOes Mega Gardevoir and does significant damage to Latios, Latias, Lanodrus Landorus, and other Fairy-types, (RC) such as Clefable and Sylveon. If taking on Substitute Mega Gyarados, as well as hitting Azumarill, Keldeo, Excadrill, (AC) and Hippowdon for good damage, (AC) is more important to your team, Power Whip is an option over Gyro Ball. Protect in tandem with Leech Seed grants Ferrothorn even more recovery, which can be crucial in many cases. Protect and it is also useful for scouting purposes. If not running Leftovers as Ferrothorn's item, Protect is absolutely mandtory mandatory, as Ferrothorn desperately needs the extra recovery it can provoide provide. If the extra recovery from Protect this isn't all that important to your team, Power Whip is an option over it. Power Whip, when ran in tandem with Gyro Ball, as it gives Ferrothorn good neutral coverage in tandem with Gyro Ball. If giving Ferrothorn the ability to cripple common switch-ins such as Mega Charizard X, Mega Charizard Y, and Heatran is important (or w/e), Thunder Wave is an option for the last moveslot. Lastly, Knock Off is an option to annoy common switch-ins by removing their item, such as Zapdos's and Mew's Leftovers, and can be ran run in the last moveslot.

Set Details
========

The given EV spread with a Relaxed nature lets Ferrothorn fare well against both physically and specially oriented opponents. The 168 Special Defense EVs in Special Defense gives give Ferrothorn enough special bulk to live two Ice Beams from +3 Manaphy. A Sassy nature with the given EV spread gives allows Ferrothorn the ability to live the combination of Hyper Voice + Focus Blast from Modest Mega Gardevoir most of the time, while still avoiding the 2HKO from +1 Mega Gyarados's Earthquake most of the time. However, the EV spread can be tweaked as much as you like; full investment in Defensive Defense lets Ferrothorn take on strong physical attackers such as Life Orb Excadrill and Diggersby, while full investment in Special Defense lets it always live Hyper Voice + Focus Blast from Modest Mega Gardevoir.

Leftovers is the preferred item, (AC) as Ferrothorn lacks reliable recovery, (RC) and appreciates every kind of recovery it can get. However, Shed Shell is an alternative over Leftovers if the ability to escape from Magnezone's and Gothielle's trapping Gothitelle is more valuable to your team than the extra recovery Leftovers provides. Rocky Helmet is also an alternate option over Leftovers or Shed Shell, (RC) in order to weaken physical attackers, such as Azumarill and Landorus-T, (I mean, you can keep them if they are specifically relevant, but this sentence suffers from too many examples, and afaik its purpose is more to punish moves like Knock Off and U-turn than Azu and Lando per se) that try to hit Ferrothorn with weaker attacks, such as U-turn, (AC) and Knock Off, and not very effective moves that make contact.

Usage Tips
========

It's advised to send in Ferrothorn on a Pokemon that does not threaten it, such as Azumarill, Chansey, opposing Ferrothorn, Slowbro, (AC) or Suicune, and proceed to set up Stealth Rock or Spikes. Leech Seed is the most spammable move in the moveset, and if the opposing team lacks an immunity Pokemon that is immune to it, it's more than likely favorable to use it. Playing carefully with Protect is advised, as it can be easy to take advantage of. Its main uses are letting Ferrothorn gain extra recovery in a pinch, (RC) and scouting for lures like Hidden Power Fire Greninja and Latios. However, Especially (just seems more appropriate, don't know what contrast you're trying to point out here) if Ferrothorn is important to beat the opposing team, you should always scout for this kind of moves, either by using Protect or by switching out. If the opposing team has a Defogger capable of switching safely into Ferrothorn, such as Skarmory and or Zapdos, pulling double switches to stop them from Defogging is smart. Lastly, if not running Shed Shell, it's adivsed advised to play carefully around trappers such as Magnezone and Gothitelle, especially if Ferrothorn is important to take on a member of the opposing team.

Team Options
========

Pokemon that are capable of dealing with Fire-types like such as Mega Charizard X, Mega Charizard Y, Talonflame, (AC) and Heatran make good teammates. Heatran excels at this role, especially if holding an Air Balloon. It can also set Stealth Rock, which allows Ferrothorn to run Spikes. Defiant users that can take advantage of the opponent trying to remove Ferrothorn's entry hazards with Defog, such as Bisharp and Thundurus, also make good teammates. If running a Sassy nature, Pokemon capable of dealing with strong physical attackers are good partners. Defensive Landorus-T is probably the best choice, as it is also capable of running Stealth Rock. Fairy-types like such as Clefable and Azumarill also make good partners due to having the ability to because they can take on Fighting-types and Hidden Power Fire Greninja. Lastly, Keldeo and Infernape make good teammates, (AC) as they are capable of beating Mega Scizor and Bisharp, both of which use Ferrothorn as setup fodder.

Other Options
########

While Ferrothorn has access to a lot of support moves, it hasn't really got a lot of other options than the ones mentioned in the main set. Bulldoze hits Heatran and Magnezone hard, but it will not OHKO either of them. Toxic can be used to punish bulky switch-ins, such as Zapdos, Mew, (AC) and Mandibuzz, and while Curse is a decent boosting option, as Ferrothorn has high Special Defense and is immune to Toxic. Rest is an an option alongside Leech Seed for semi-reliable recovery, if it is really wanted on your team. It should be noted that Ferrothorn has to drop a utility move if running Rest, however. If Ferrothorn is run on Trick Room teams, Explosion is an option, as it does a lot of damage to most opponents and gains momentum for the team. With its decent offensive stats, it also has the option to run a Choice Band set, but such a set is gimmicky and wastes Ferrothorn's potential as a support Pokemon.

Checks & Counters (remove the dots here)
########

  • **Fire-types**: Fire-types such as Mega Charizard X, Mega Charizard Y, Talonflame, and Heatran resist Ferrothorn's STAB attacks, (RC) and can OHKO Ferrothorn with their respective Fire-type STAB attacks. However, Mega Charizard X and Talonflame must be vary wary of the recoil damage from Flare Blitz and Iron Barbs.
  • **Zapdos**: Zapdos resists both (active voice over passive) Ferrothorn's STAB moves are both resisted by Zapdos, which and can threaten Ferrothorn out with Heat Wave, (RC) or Defog Ferrothorn's its entry hazards away.
  • **Mega Venusaur**: Mega Venusaur takes little to no damage from Power Whip and Gyro Ball, (RC) and can do significant damage in return with Hidden Power Fire. Mega Venusaur is also immune to Leech Seed, so it only has to be vary wary of the uncommon Thunder Wave.
  • **Magnezone**: If Ferrothorn is not running Shed Shell, Magnezone can trap Ferrothorn due to with Magnet Pull, (RC) and proceed to do a lot of damage with Hidden Power Fire. Magnezone also fears very little from Ferrothorn, as it resists its STAB attacks.
  • **Mega Scizor**: With the combination of Roost and Swords Dance, Mega Scizor uses Ferrothorn as set-up setup fodder, as it fears nothing that Ferrothorn can throw at it.
  • **Clefable**: With maximum investment in Defense, Clefable can outstall Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball's, Balls and proceed to set up Calm Mind's. It can also 2HKO Ferrothorn with unboosted Flamethrower's Flamethrowers.
  • **Fighting-types**: Strong Fighting-types, such as Terrakion, Keldeo, Mega Heracross, and Mega Medicham, can do heafty hefty amounts of damage to Ferrothorn with their Fighting-type STAB moves, if not OHKOing it. They all have to be vary wary of Gyro Ball or Power Whip, however.
  • **Taunt**: Taunt users that fear little from Ferrothorn's attacks, such as Mew and Mandibuzz, completely shut it down, as Ferrothorn can't use Leech Seed while being when Taunted.



GP 1/2
 
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