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Ferrothorn [rewrite] (READY FOR UPLOAD)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Delta 2777, Jul 13, 2013.

  1. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
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    Foreword: I wrote this analysis roughly two years ago, and I felt that some of the comments were out of date due to metagame changes along with certain bans and newly released Pokemon. Some of the wording may be similar if not identical to how it is in the current analysis. Sidenote: this will most likely be my last contribution to Smogon, so don't bother making my contributor non-alumni.

    -----

    [​IMG]
    [Overview]

    <p>When it comes to both overall utility and effectiveness as a defensive pivot, Ferrothorn is second to none. Great defensive typing, above average stats, and a stellar support movepool make him a valuable asset to both offensive and defensive teams alike. The ability to check so many threats at once, including, but not limited to, Latios, Kyurem-B, and virtually every Water-type in the tier barring Keldeo allows Ferrothorn many opportunities to switch in and either set up entry hazards or retaliate with either of his two powerful STAB moves. Much like any other Pokemon, Ferrothorn does have his drawbacks in his poor Speed, a 4x Fire weakness, and no method of reliable recovery (aside from Rest), but if played to his strengths, Ferrothorn will almost always perform well.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Standard
    move 1: Spikes / Stealth Rock
    move 2: Leech Seed / Stealth Rock
    move 3: Power Whip / Protect
    move 4: Gyro Ball / Thunder Wave
    nature: Relaxed
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
    ivs: 0 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is Ferrothorn's standard fare and is what he will be running the vast majority of the time. Despite the myriad of viable moves Ferrothorn has at his disposal, each combination functions almost identically; switch in, set up hazards, and cripple the opponent. Spikes work excellently on Ferrothorn, giving him something to do after switching in on an opponent that can't touch it. Leech Seed is also a very effective move, useful for preventing opposing Pokemon from setting up on him while simultaneously providing self-healing. Either of these moves can be replaced with Stealth Rock should there not be room for it elsewhere on the team, although both are of substantial utility and will be missed.</p>

    <p>Gyro Ball and Power Whip are Ferrothorn's best attacking options, hitting the majority of the standard metagame for at least neutral damage. Each of these two moves has its merits; the former is generally more effective against faster Pokemon or those that resist Power Whip such as Gengar, Latios, Dragonite, and Kyurem-B, whereas the latter primarily slams Water Pokemon such as Rotom-W, Jellicent, Gyarados, and Keldeo. Unfortunately, it is worth noting that some of these Pokemon have methods of crippling Ferrothorn before he lands a single Power Whip; the former two are capable of afflicting Ferrothorn with a burn via Will-O-Wisp, whereas Keldeo can nearly OHKO with Secret Sword before Ferrothorn can land a single hit.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Because Ferrothorn's Attack stat is less than impressive without any investment, there are several alternatives available. Leech Seed is once again an option over Power Whip should you have passed over the move previously in exchange for having both Stealth Rock and Spikes on the same set. On the other hand, if Leech Seed is already being used, Protect is certainly worthy of consideration; it is useful not only for scouting, but also for racking up Leech Seed and Leftovers recovery as well. Thunder Wave has merit over Gyro Ball as a method of crippling faster powerful threats that often enjoy switching into Ferrothorn. Another move not mentioned above is Curse, which allows Ferrothorn to boost its Attack to dangerous levels while simultaneously increasing its Defense through the roof. However, Ferrothorn is still vulnerable to Fire- and Fighting-type attacks and will be OHKOed by many of them. Additionally, most Steel-types absolutely don't mind Curse-boosted Gyro Ball and Power Whip at all, and can set up on Ferrothorn while it struggles to do damage aside from Leech Seed. Using Curse requires a great deal of team support, and keep in mind that Ferrothorn should be used as a defensive supporting Pokemon rather than a tank.</p>

    <p>Ferrothorn can be EVed in many different ways depending on how physically or specially defensive you want him to be. The given EV spread balances Ferrothorn's Defense and Special Defense, with a slight emphasis on Defense, allowing Ferrothorn to better sponge stray Outrages and even some weaker Fighting moves not named Focus Blast. However, a Sassy nature along with 252 Special Defense EVs can be used in order to better take hits from the likes of Latios, Starmie, and Politoed. EV investment can be adapted as seen fit depending on what Ferrothorn is typically depended on to switch into. Because running Thunder Wave alongside Gyro Ball is somewhat counterproductive, be sure to use an Impish nature and 31 Spe IVs when selecting the former to ensure Ferrothorn outpaces paralyzed threats. You may also opt to invest as much as 48 EVs in Speed when using Thunder Wave, as this will allow Ferrothorn to outpace paralyzed base 110s and everything slower. Attack investment is also an option to give Power Whip and Gyro Ball more of a punch, but keep in mind that this may impact Ferrothorn's survivability quite a bit.</p>

    <p>As far as other items besides the standard Leftovers are concerned, Rocky Helmet is also a viable item choice, as Pokemon that use contact moves against Ferrothorn will lose 25% of their health due to the combination of Rocky Helmet and Iron Barbs. This is especially helpful in warding off Pokemon that want to use Rapid Spin against Ferrothorn, especially since Rapid Spin does not remove entry hazards if the user faints from Iron Barbs immediately after using the move. Shed Shell is also viable alternative that allows Ferrothorn to escape the clutches of opposing Magnezone, Wobbuffet, and Gothitelle, although the lack of Leftovers recovery is usually not worth the sacrifice.</p>

    <p>Thanks to Ferrothorn's great typing and support options, he is one of the few Pokemon that can be slapped onto virtually any team and still be worth his weight in gold. As previously mentioned, one of Ferrothorn's greatest perks is his utility as a defensive pivot, meaning even offensively oriented teams will appreciate his ability to take hits and reclaim the tempo of the match. However, this is not to say that Ferrothorn doesn't appreciate some team support. Jellicent is a great potential teammate; together, they resist every attacking type in the game aside from Ground and Flying. In addition, Jellicent is capable of blocking attempts to spin away the hazards that Ferrothorn sets up. Ferrothorn also benefits from teammates that can scare off the Steel-types that give Ferrothorn trouble, namely Skarmory, Forretress, Scizor, and Heatran. Water-types—particularly those that also possess a resistance to Fighting-type moves, such as Gyarados and Tentacruel—also have good synergy with Ferrothorn and are generally adept at defeating the aforementioned Steel Pokemon. One last thing to consider is potentially teaming Ferrothorn up with Politoed. Ferrothorn generally prefers rain to other weathers as it helps to alleviate his Fire weakness, allowing him to sponge attacks such as Latios's Hidden Power Fire and Jirachi's Fire Punch, which would otherwise cripple him. Additionally, thanks to his typing and great defenses, Ferrothorn rarely minds the powered up Water moves that the rain may bring.</p>

    <p>Ferrothorn is also often compared to Forretress when competing for a team slot. This is not surprising, as both Pokemon possess a similar typing while also having access to Spikes. Forretress has better Defense, while Ferrothorn has superior Special Defense. In general, the team slot will go to whichever the team needs more: Forretress's access to Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin, or Ferrothorn's superior resistances and Special Defense. Regardless, one should consider Forretress before deciding to use Ferrothorn on a team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Gyro Ball
    move 2: Power Whip
    move 3: Bulldoze
    move 4: Spikes / Explosion
    nature: Brave
    item: Choice Band
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
    ivs: 0 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While this set may appear to be a gimmick at first, it is quite far from it. Ferrothorn may lack a large offensive movepool, but its two extremely powerful STAB moves in Gyro Ball and Power Whip backed by a respectable base 94 Attack stat show that this set should not be underestimated. Steel- and Grass-type attacks have surprisingly good coverage together, only being resisted by a handful of common threats, most of which possess either Steel or Fire typing. Despite Bulldoze's paltry Base Power of 60, it hits many of the Pokemon that resist Ferrothorn's STAB moves for a large amount of damage. The last moveslot is largely filler; Spikes isn't the best move to be locked into, but can be useful in certain situations. Explosion's high Base Power, on the other hand, is very appealing, but comes at the cost of Ferrothorn's life, and is not much more powerful than Ferrothorn's STAB moves.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is so effective because of Ferrothorn's surprising power when it wields a Choice Band in tandem with its useful bulk and typing. Because many players expect Ferrothorn to simply set up entry hazards or use Leech Seed, it is unlikely for the opponent to switch in a Pokemon capable of withstanding all of Ferrothorn's attacks. Here are some damage calculations to show how powerful this set is, assuming a Brave nature and 0 Speed IVs:</p>

    <ul class="damage_calculation">
    <li>Gyro Ball vs. 0/0 Salamence: 117.2% - 138.1%</li>
    <li>Gyro Ball vs 4/0 Garchomp: 94.1% - 110.9%</li>
    <li>Gyro Ball vs. 4/0 Thundurus-T: 72% - 84.7%</li>
    <li>Gyro Ball vs. 252/0 Celebi: 79.7% - 94.3%</li>
    <li>Gyro Ball vs. 252/184+ Gliscor: 58.8% - 69.5%</li>
    <li>Power Whip vs. 252/0 Conkeldurr: 65.2% - 76.8%</li>
    <li>Power Whip vs. 192/64 Reuniclus: 73.6% - 86.8%</li>
    <li>Power Whip vs. 252/236+ Tentacruel: 67.6% - 79.9%</li>
    <li>Power Whip vs. 252/252+ Reuniclus: 52.6% - 62.3%</li>
    <li>Power Whip vs. 252/252+ Suicune: 83.7% - 98.5%</li>
    <li>Power Whip vs. 252/252+ Hippowdon: 79% - 93.3%</li>
    <li>Bulldoze vs. 248/0 Heatran: 85.2% - 100.8%</li>
    <li>Bulldoze vs. 172/0 Magnezone: 95.1% - 112.3%</li>
    <li>Explosion vs. 192/64 Zapdos: 103% - 121.4%</li>
    </ul>

    <p>Despite the lack of investment in Ferrothorn's defenses, maximizing Ferrothorn's HP still provides it with a fair amount of bulk. In fact, Ferrothorn's bulk in combination with its great defensive typing is one of his main selling points over other Choice Band users such as Terrakion and Scizor, as Ferrothorn will often take multiple hits before going down. Unfortunately, there are several common Pokemon that Choice Band Ferrothorn struggles with, namely Scizor, Skarmory, Bronzong, Forretress, Zapdos, and opposing Ferrothorn. For this reason, it is wise to pair Ferrothorn up with a Fire-type. Not only do they have good offensive synergy, but a Fire-type such as Heatran or Infernape is also capable of switching in on many of the Pokemon that give this set trouble.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A notewothy move not mentioned above is Gravity. Using Gravity allows Ferrothorn to act as a defensive pivot on a Gravity-based team, although Gravity itself is generally considered a gimmicky strategy.</p>

    <p>As far as individual sets are concerned, the standard set does not have many other options apart from what is listed aside from the generic Toxic and Curse. Stealth Rock is only recommended if there is no teammate that can set up Stealth Rock effectively, as Ferrothorn is one of the few useful Pokemon capable of setting up Spikes. Toxic is generally dismissed in favor of Leech Seed, which heals Ferrothorn in addition to racking up residual damage. On the Choice Band set, Ferrothorn can use Return, Rollout, Payback, Shadow Claw, or even Leech Seed in the fourth slot, although Spikes and Explosion are generally superior options.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Pokemon that carry Fire-type moves, such as Heatran, Infernape, Ninetales, and Hydreigon, are more than capable of forcing Ferrothorn out. However, not only is Ferrothorn is capable of surviving some weaker Fire-type attacks such as Tyranitar's Flamethrower, but if rain is up many of these attacks (particularly those that lack STAB) can be tanked by Ferrothorn quite nicely. This gives him the opportunity to either attack back or set up entry hazards. Likewise, users of powerful Fighting-type attacks, such as Conkeldurr, Breloom, and Terrakion, will also scare most Ferrothorn off. Magic Bounce Xatu and Espeon, as well as Taunt Skarmory, are capable of rendering Ferrothorn nearly useless, preventing him from laying down Spikes while providing team support in the form of either dual screens or Spikes, respectively.</p>

    <p>Many Pokemon that are often otherwise shut down by Ferrothorn, such as Latios and Starmie, are capable of crippling Ferrothorn if they choose to run Hidden Power Fire or Trick. Magnezone with either Hidden Power Fire or the combination of Charge Beam and Substitute is also capable of making Ferrothorn's life miserable. Finally, because Ferrothorn does not have reliable recovery outside of Leech Seed and Rest, it can eventually be worn down by powerful or boosted neutral hits. Be warned, however, that many of Ferrothorn's counters will dread switching in on the Choice Band set, especially if they are not expecting it.</p>
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2013
  2. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Ok, we can make an exception here since you wrote the original analysis / is experienced with Ferrothorn.

    QC APPROVED (1/3)
  3. tehy

    tehy

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    Hey just a thought but

    'Despite the myriad of viable moves Ferrothorn has at its disposal, each combination functions essentially the same; switch in, set up hazards, and cripple the opponent'

    Leech Seed isn't exactly crippling, just saying. And you could include a part in there about hitting opponents with an attack too, although it's pretty okay as is

    Also 'Of course, Ferrothorn has other options as well'
    This segment probably shouldn't exist but if it did it should really be AC
  4. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
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    Yeah I don't really like the way I worded that either, I'll probably change it up a bit.
  5. Vertex

    Vertex

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    I don't really understand this statement. Ferrothorn should be supporting the team, but others shouldn't be supporting it, save synergy. You should also write how its 4x weakness to fire is remedied in rain and its poor speed is boos for gyro ball.
  6. ginganinja

    ginganinja Cheating on Haunter
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    QC APPROVED 2/3
  7. BKC

    BKC
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    qc approved 3/3
  8. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
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    This is ~95% done, aside from a few wordings which I might change. The Choice Band set is nearly verbatim of what I wrote in the original analysis.

    Also funny: NOBODY noticed that my calculations from two years ago, which have been on-site ever since, against Magnezone, Heatran, and Zapdos were way off for some reason. I fixed them (still wrong for the current on-site analysis).

    GP time.
  9. panamaxis

    panamaxis Allons-y!
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    is curse worth a set? It was pretty legit when i used it in BW1 and it still seemed pretty good when Heist was using it in BW2. Curse/LS/PW/gyro
  10. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa

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    What does 252/48/208 specifically allow Ferrothorn to avoid?
  11. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    They're mostly used to help balance out Ferrothorn's bulk with the emphasis on physical bulk, as mentioned in the Additional Comments. Specifically, 48 Def EVs are enough to hit a jump point due to Ferrothorn's unique base 131 Def stat, and the rest is placed into SpD. Hitting that jump point in Def makes the spread a bit more efficient as well. Incidentally, the 208 SpD EVs area also enough to hit a jump point in SpD should you run Sassy > Relaxed, and so it gives the spread a good degree of versatility.
  12. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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    What's the extra special defense accomplishing that 252 / 168 / 88 didn't accomplish is what I think he was asking. I'd think a bit more defensive bulk what be necessary to take SS from Keldeo better, but I don't run Ferrothorn nearly as much as most of the other users here on Smogon do so I am curious about what the change of evs accomplish, like A dude is.

    Agent Gibbs, I found that answer to not be helpful. Can you mention how that spreads takes SS (or other common OU things) vs. the other ev spread, etc. to show us why it is more effective?

    I'm not saying it isn't more effective, only that I don't use Ferrothorn and would like to be enlightened and that answer really isn't telling me anything other than you hit a few jump points (you don't specify what you're jumping?) and so I'd like more clarification please.

    Thanks :)
  13. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    I didn't design the EV spread, I'm just explaining what it does based on the observations I am able to make. If you're wondering why there's more special bulk here than in the old spread, then it might be because this spread offers more balance between defenses. The old spread has 352 Def and 310 SpD, while the new one has 341 Def and 320 SpD. In addition, the old spread was pretty much chosen for similar reasons (good overall bulk with an emphasis on physical bulk), and so its design wasn't any more specific.

    As far as "jump points" go, I think you misunderstood what jump points are. Jump points are a phenomenon that occurs when you add 4 EVs to a stat with a boosting nature and you end up getting two stat points instead of one. This occurs because the boosting nature multiplies a stat by 1.1, but stats with a decimal "remainder" always round down. Once the nature-boosted stat has been EV'd enough so that there is no decimal remainder when multiplied by 1.1, you actually get 2 more stat points than if you had a decimal remainder of .9 instead of just the 1 point. In this case, 44 EVs would give Ferrothorn 339 Def, while those extra 4 EVs give Ferrothorn 341 Def. Generally if you're just trying to create a balanced all-purpose defensive spread with no real defensive benchmarks (i.e. surviving a certain attack), then it's good to go for a jump point in one stat to get more bang for your buck.

    There might be a better spread, perhaps one that lets Ferrothorn survive a 2HKO from something, but I can't think of one at the moment. This is just what I can tell you from my own observation. If you want a more detailed answer, you'll have to ask the analysis writer.

    EDIT: I did a quick calculation and found that the 208 SpD EVs are actually exactly enough to guarantee that 4 SpA Salamence without a Life Orb (ScarfMence and LumDD, for example) can never OHKO with Fire Blast after Stealth Rock or Spikes + a turn of Leftovers, which makes Ferrothorn a slightly better check to it. That deserves a mention.
    Princess Bubblegum and Shurtugal like this.
  14. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Remove Shed Shell as a main slash from the set asap and put it to AC. Will come for more observations on this later...
  15. BurningMan

    BurningMan fueled by beer

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    Replace Rugged Helmet with Rocky Helmet and i agree that Shed Shell should be AC as Magnezone/Gothitelle aren't that common to warrant a slash.
  16. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
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    Also change Steel Thorns to Iron Barbs. And doesn't Rocky Helmet deserve to be slashed after Leftovers on the Standard set? It really punishes Pokémon trying to Outrage and other physical moves. I will say, though, that it's usage is really only justified if you run Leech Seed, since Ferrothorn needs some form of recovery. I'd certainly use Rocky Helmet over Shed Shell.
  17. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
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    Oh my god it's already approved why are people still commenting on this jesus christ

    Whatever I'll make those insignificant changes and I guess I'll write up a curse set since pana endorses it, other than that either GP check this or leave me alone please
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  18. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Delta 2777 this is how the process goes and nobody is forcing you to write this. The QC team can post their thoughts even after this is QC checked for obvious reasons and i don't get why you thought the opposite.
  19. Ender

    Ender Comfortably Numb
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    [​IMG]
    GP Check 1/2
    I see that some changes might be being made, but I went ahead and gave it a GP Check. If it changes more, just let me know and I'll look over it again.

    Additions and Changes
    Deletions
    [Comments]

    Show Hide


    [Overview]

    <p>When it comes to both overall utility and effectiveness as a defensive pivot, Ferrothorn is second to none. Great defensive typing, above average stats, and a stellar support movepool make him a valuable asset to both offensive and defensive teams alike. The ability to check so many threats at once, including, [added comma] but not limited to Latios, Kyurem-B, and virtually every Water-type in the tier barring Keldeo allows Ferrothorn many opportunities to switch in and either set up entry hazards or retaliate with either of his two powerful STAB moves. Much like any other Pokemon, Ferrothorn does have his drawbacks in his poor Speed, a 4x Fire weakness, and no method of reliable recovery (aside from Rest), but if played to his strengths, Ferrothorn will almost always perform well.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Standard
    move 1: Spikes / Stealth Rock
    move 2: Leech Seed / Stealth Rock
    move 3: Power Whip / Leech Seed / Protect
    move 4: Gyro Ball / Thunder Wave
    nature: Relaxed
    item: Leftovers / Shed Shell
    evs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
    ivs: 0 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is Ferrothorn's standard fare and is what he will be running the vast majority of the time. Despite the myriad of viable moves Ferrothorn has at his disposal, each combination functions almost identically; switch in, set up hazards, and cripple the opponent. Spikes work excellently on Ferrothorn, giving him something to do after switching in on an opponent that can't touch it. Leech Seed is also a very effective move, useful for preventing opposing Pokemon from setting up on him while simultaneously providing self-healing. Either of these moves can be replaced with Stealth Rock should there not be room for it elsewhere on the team, although both are of substantial utility and will be missed.</p>

    <p>Gyro Ball and Power Whip are Ferrothorn's best attacking options, hitting the majority of the standard metagame for at least neutral damage. Each of these two moves has its merits; the former is generally more effective primarily against faster Pokemon or those that resist Power Whip such as Gengar, Latios, Dragonite, and Kyurem-B, whereas the latter primarily slams Water Pokemon such as Rotom-W, Jellicent, Gyarados, and Keldeo. Unfortunately, it is worth noting that some of these Pokemon have methods of crippling Ferrothorn before he lands a single Power Whip; the former two are capable of afflicting Ferrothorn with a burn via Will-O-Wisp, whereas Keldeo can nearly OHKO with Secret Sword before Ferrothorn can land a single hit.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Because Ferrothorn's Attack stat is less than impressive without any investment, there are several alternatives available. Leech Seed is once again an option over Power Whip should you have foregone passed over the move previously in exchange for having both Stealth Rock and Spikes on the same set. On the other hand, if Leech Seed is already being used, Protect is certainly worthy of consideration; it is useful not only for scouting, but also for racking up Leech Seed and Leftovers recovery as well. Finally, Thunder Wave has merit over Gyro Ball as a method of crippling faster powerful threats that often enjoy switching into Ferrothorn so often.</p>

    <p>Ferrothorn can be EVed in many different ways depending on how physically or specially defensive you want him to be. The given EV spread balances Ferrothorn's Defense and Special Defense, with a slight emphasis on Defense, allowing Ferrothorn to better sponge stray Outrages and even some weaker Fighting moves not named Focus Blast. However, a Sassy nature along with 252 SpD Special Defense EVs can be used in order to better take hits from the likes of Latios, Starmie, and Politoed even better. EV investment can be adapted as seen fit depending on what Ferrothorn is typically depended on to switch into more often. Because running Thunder Wave alongside Gyro Ball is somewhat counterproductive, be sure to use an Impish nature and 31 Spe IVs when selecting the former to ensure Ferrothorn outpaces paralyzed threats. You may also opt to invest as much as 48 EVs in Speed when using Thunder Wave, as this will allow you to outpace paralyzed base 110s and everything slower. Attack investment is also an option to give Power Whip and Gyro Ball more of a punch, but keep in mind that this may impact Ferrothorn's survivability quite a bit.</p>

    <p>Thanks to Ferrothorn's great typing and support options, he is one of few Pokemon that can be slapped onto virtually any team and still be worth his weight in gold. As previously mentioned, one of Ferrothorn's greatest perks is his utility as a defensive pivot, meaning even offensively oriented teams will appreciate his ability to take hits and reclaim the tempo of the match. However, this is not to say that Ferrothorn doesn't appreciate some team support. Jellicent is a great potential teammate; together, they resist every attacking type in the game aside from Ground and Flying. In addition, Jellicent is capable of blocking attempts to spin away the hazards that Ferrothorn sets up. Ferrothorn also benefits from teammates that can scare off the Steel-types that give Ferrothorn trouble, namely Skarmory, Forretress, Scizor, and Heatran. Water-types—particularly those that also possess a resistance to Fighting-type moves, such as Gyarados and Tentacruel—also generally have good synergy with Ferrothorn [removed comma] and are generally adept at defeating the aforementioned Steel Pokemon. One last thing to consider is potentially teaming Ferrothorn up with Politoed. Ferrothorn generally prefers rain to other weathers as it helps to alleviate his Fire weakness, allowing him to sponge attacks such as Latios's Hidden Power Fire and Jirachi's Fire Punch, [added comma] which would otherwise cripple him. Additionally, thanks to his typing and great defenses, Ferrothorn rarely minds the powered up Water moves that the rain may bring.</p>

    <p>Ferrothorn is also often compared to Forretress when competing for a team slot. This is not surprising, as both Pokemon possess a similar typing while also having access to Spikes. Forretress also has better Defense, while Ferrothorn has superior Special Defense. In general, the team slot will go to whichever the team needs more: Forretress's access to Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin, or Ferrothorn's superior resistances and Special Defense. Regardless, one should consider Forretress before deciding to use Ferrothorn on a team. Much like Forretress, Ferrothorn has the option of adorning a Shed Shell in order to escape the clutches of opposing Magnezone, Wobbuffet, and Dugtrio, although the lack of Leftovers recovery is usually not worth the sacrifice.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Gyro Ball
    move 2: Power Whip
    move 3: Bulldoze
    move 4: Spikes / Explosion
    nature: Brave
    item: Choice Band
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
    ivs: 0 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While this set may appear to be a gimmick at first, it is quite far from it. Ferrothorn may lack a large offensive movepool, but its two extremely powerful STAB moves in Gyro Ball and Power Whip backed by a respectable base 94 Attack stat show that this set is should not to be underestimated. Steel- and Grass-type attacks have surprisingly good coverage together, only being reisisted by a handful of common threats, most of which possess either Steel or Fire typing. Despite Bulldoze's paltry base power of 60, it hits many of the Pokemon that resist Ferrothorn's STAB moves for a large amount of damage. The last moveslot is largely filler; Spikes isn't the best move to be locked into, but can be useful in certain situations. Explosion's high Base Power, on the other hand, is very appealing, but comes at the cost of Ferrothorn's life, and is not much more powerful than Ferrothorn's STAB moves.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is so effective because of Ferrothorn's surprising power when it wields a Choice Band in tandem with its useful bulk and typing. Because many players expect Ferrothorn to simply set up entry hazards or use Leech Seed, it is typically unlikely for the opponent to switch in a Pokemon capable of withstanding all of Ferrothorn's attacks. Here are some damage calculations to show how powerful this set is, assuming a Brave nature and 0 Speed IVs.</p>

    <ul class="damage_calculation">
    <li>Gyro Ball vs. 0/0 Salamence: 117.2% - 138.1%</li>
    <li>Gyro Ball vs 4/0 Garchomp: 94.1% - 110.9%</li>
    <li>Gyro Ball vs. 4/0 Thundurus-T: 72% - 84.7%</li>
    <li>Gyro Ball vs. 252/0 Celebi: 79.7% - 94.3%</li>
    <li>Gyro Ball vs. 252/184+ Gliscor: 58.8% - 69.5%</li>
    <li>Power Whip vs. 252/0 Conkeldurr: 65.2% - 76.8%</li>
    <li>Power Whip vs. 192/64 Reuniclus: 73.6% - 86.8%</li>
    <li>Power Whip vs. 252/236+ Tentacruel: 67.6% - 79.9%</li>
    <li>Power Whip vs. 252/252+ Reuniclus: 52.6% - 62.3%</li>
    <li>Power Whip vs. 252/252+ Suicune: 83.7% - 98.5%</li>
    <li>Power Whip vs. 252/252+ Hippowdon: 79% - 93.3%</li>
    <li>Bulldoze vs. 248/0 Heatran: 85.2% - 100.8%</li>
    <li>Bulldoze vs. 172/0 Magnezone: 95.1% - 112.3%</li>
    <li>Explosion vs. 192/64 Zapdos: 103% - 121.4%</li>
    </ul>

    <p>Despite the lack of investment in Ferrothorn's defenses, maximizing Ferrothorn's HP still provides it with a fair amount of bulk. In fact, Ferrothorn's bulk in combination with its great defensive typing is one of his main selling points over other Choice Band users [removed comma] such as Terrakion and Scizor, as Ferrothorn will often take multiple hits before going down. Unfortunately, there are several common Pokemon that Choice Band Ferrothorn struggles with, namely Scizor, Skarmory, Bronzong, Forretress, Zapdos, and opposing Ferrothorn. For this reason, it is wise to pair Ferrothorn up with a Fire-type. Not only do they have good offensive [you mention defensive synergy immediately after this, so I thought I would clarify] synergy, but a Fire-type such as Heatran or Infernape is also capable of switching in on many of the Pokemon that give this set trouble.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Two of the most noteworthy moves not mentioned above are Curse and Gravity. Curse is a viable set-up move for Ferrothorn, allowing it to boost its Attack to dangerous levels while simultaneously increasing its Defense through the roof. However, Ferrothorn is still vulnerable to Fire-type attacks, and will be OHKOed by many of them, so this set requires a great deal of team support. Gravity, [comma] on the other hand, [comma] allows Ferrothorn to act as a defensive pivot on a Gravity-based team, although Gravity itself is generally considered a gimmicky strategy.</p>

    <p>As far as individual sets are concerned, the standard set does not have many other options apart from what is listed aside from the generic Toxic. Stealth Rock is only recommended if there is no teammate that can set up Stealth Rock as effectively, as Ferrothorn is one of the few useful Pokemon capable of setting up Spikes. Toxic is generally dismissed in favor of Leech Seed, which heals Ferrothorn in addition to racking up residual damage. Rugged Helmet is also a viable item choice on the standard set, as Pokemon that use contact moves against Ferrothorn will lose 25% of their health due to the combination of Rugged Helmet and Steel Thorns. This is especially helpful in warding off Pokemon that want to use Rapid Spin against Ferrothorn, especially since Rapid Spin does not remove entry hazards if the user faints from Steel Thorns immediately after using the move. On the Choice Band set, Ferrothorn can use Return, Rollout, Payback, Shadow Claw, or even Leech Seed in the fourth slot, although Spikes and Explosion are generally superior options.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Pokemon that carry Fire-type moves, such as Heatran, Infernape, Zoroark, and Hydreigon, are more than capable of forcing Ferrothorn out. However, not only is Ferrothorn is capable of surviving some weaker Fire-type attacks such as Tyranitar's Flamethrower, but if rain is up many of these attacks (particularly those that lack STAB) can be tanked by Ferrothorn quite nicely. This gives him the opportunity to either attack back or set up entry hazards. Likewise, users of powerful Fighting-type attacks, such as Conkeldurr and Terrakion, will also scare most Ferrothorn off. Magic Bounce Xatu and Espeon, as well as Taunt Skarmory are capable of rendering Ferrothorn nearly useless, preventing him from laying down Spikes while providing their own form of team support in the form of either dual screens or Spikes, respectively.</p>

    <p>Many Pokemon that are often otherwise shut down by Ferrothorn, such as Latios and Starmie, are capable of crippling Ferrothorn if they choose to run Hidden Power Fire or Trick. Magnezone with either Hidden Power Fire or the combination of Charge Beam and Substitute is also capable of making Ferrothorn's life miserable. Finally, because Ferrothorn does not have reliable recovery outside of Leech Seed and Rest, it can eventually be worn down by powerful or boosted neutral hits. Be warned, however, that many of Ferrothorn's counters will dread switching in on the Choice Band set, especially if they are not expecting it.</p>
  20. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    Okay since Delta hasn't been around for a long long while, I'm gonna go sock-puppet him for a while since it's helluva lot of work just to get a separate thread back up. I implemented that last GP check, so please get this finished with one last one, GP checkers.

    Cheers!
  21. Oglemi

    Oglemi Working hard
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    [Overview]

    <p>When it comes to both overall utility and effectiveness as a defensive pivot, Ferrothorn is second to none. Great defensive typing, above average stats, and a stellar support movepool make him a valuable asset to both offensive and defensive teams alike. The ability to check so many threats at once, including, but not limited to, Latios, Kyurem-B, and virtually every Water-type in the tier barring Keldeo allows Ferrothorn many opportunities to switch in and either set up entry hazards or retaliate with either of his two powerful STAB moves. Much like any other Pokemon, Ferrothorn does have his drawbacks in his poor Speed, a 4x Fire weakness, and no method of reliable recovery (aside from Rest), but if played to his strengths, Ferrothorn will almost always perform well.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Standard
    move 1: Spikes / Stealth Rock
    move 2: Leech Seed / Stealth Rock
    move 3: Power Whip / Leech Seed / Protect
    move 4: Gyro Ball / Thunder Wave
    nature: Relaxed
    item: Leftovers / Shed Shell
    evs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
    ivs: 0 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is Ferrothorn's standard fare and is what he will be running the vast majority of the time. Despite the myriad of viable moves Ferrothorn has at his disposal, each combination functions almost identically; switch in, set up hazards, and cripple the opponent. Spikes work excellently on Ferrothorn, giving him something to do after switching in on an opponent that can't touch it. Leech Seed is also a very effective move, useful for preventing opposing Pokemon from setting up on him while simultaneously providing self-healing. Either of these moves can be replaced with Stealth Rock should there not be room for it elsewhere on the team, although both are of substantial utility and will be missed.</p>

    <p>Gyro Ball and Power Whip are Ferrothorn's best attacking options, hitting the majority of the standard metagame for at least neutral damage. Each of these two moves has its merits; the former is generally more effective against faster Pokemon or those that resist Power Whip such as Gengar, Latios, Dragonite, and Kyurem-B, whereas the latter primarily slams Water Pokemon such as Rotom-W, Jellicent, Gyarados, and Keldeo. Unfortunately, it is worth noting that some of these Pokemon have methods of crippling Ferrothorn before he lands a single Power Whip; the former two are capable of afflicting Ferrothorn with a burn via Will-O-Wisp, whereas Keldeo can nearly OHKO with Secret Sword before Ferrothorn can land a single hit.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Because Ferrothorn's Attack stat is less than impressive without any investment, there are several alternatives available. Leech Seed is once again an option over Power Whip should you have passed over the move previously in exchange for having both Stealth Rock and Spikes on the same set. On the other hand, if Leech Seed is already being used, Protect is certainly worthy of consideration; it is useful not only for scouting, but also for racking up Leech Seed and Leftovers recovery as well. Finally, Thunder Wave has merit over Gyro Ball as a method of crippling faster powerful threats that often enjoy switching into Ferrothorn.</p>

    <p>Ferrothorn can be EVed in many different ways depending on how physically or specially defensive you want him to be. The given EV spread balances Ferrothorn's Defense and Special Defense, with a slight emphasis on Defense, allowing Ferrothorn to better sponge stray Outrages and even some weaker Fighting moves not named Focus Blast. However, a Sassy nature along with 252 Special Defense EVs can be used in order to better take hits from the likes of Latios, Starmie, and Politoed. EV investment can be adapted as seen fit depending on what Ferrothorn is typically depended on to switch into. Because running Thunder Wave alongside Gyro Ball is somewhat counterproductive, be sure to use an Impish nature and 31 Spe IVs when selecting the former to ensure Ferrothorn outpaces paralyzed threats. You may also opt to invest as much as 48 EVs in Speed when using Thunder Wave, as this will allow Ferrothorn to outpace paralyzed base 110s and everything slower. Attack investment is also an option to give Power Whip and Gyro Ball more of a punch, but keep in mind that this may impact Ferrothorn's survivability quite a bit.</p>

    <p>Thanks to Ferrothorn's great typing and support options, he is one of the few Pokemon that can be slapped onto virtually any team and still be worth his weight in gold. As previously mentioned, one of Ferrothorn's greatest perks is his utility as a defensive pivot, meaning even offensively oriented teams will appreciate his ability to take hits and reclaim the tempo of the match. However, this is not to say that Ferrothorn doesn't appreciate some team support. Jellicent is a great potential teammate; together, they resist every attacking type in the game aside from Ground and Flying. In addition, Jellicent is capable of blocking attempts to spin away the hazards that Ferrothorn sets up. Ferrothorn also benefits from teammates that can scare off the Steel-types that give Ferrothorn trouble, namely Skarmory, Forretress, Scizor, and Heatran. Water-types—particularly those that also possess a resistance to Fighting-type moves, such as Gyarados and Tentacruel—also generally have good synergy with Ferrothorn and are generally adept at defeating the aforementioned Steel Pokemon. One last thing to consider is potentially teaming Ferrothorn up with Politoed. Ferrothorn generally prefers rain to other weathers as it helps to alleviate his Fire weakness, allowing him to sponge attacks such as Latios's Hidden Power Fire and Jirachi's Fire Punch, which would otherwise cripple him. Additionally, thanks to his typing and great defenses, Ferrothorn rarely minds the powered up Water moves that the rain may bring.</p>

    <p>Ferrothorn is also often compared to Forretress when competing for a team slot. This is not surprising, as both Pokemon possess a similar typing while also having access to Spikes. Forretress also has better Defense, while Ferrothorn has superior Special Defense. In general, the team slot will go to whichever the team needs more: Forretress's access to Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin, or Ferrothorn's superior resistances and Special Defense. Regardless, one should consider Forretress before deciding to use Ferrothorn on a team. Much like Forretress, Ferrothorn has the option of adorning a Shed Shell in order to escape the clutches of opposing Magnezone, Wobbuffet, and Dugtrio, although the lack of Leftovers recovery is usually not worth the sacrifice.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Gyro Ball
    move 2: Power Whip
    move 3: Bulldoze
    move 4: Spikes / Explosion
    nature: Brave
    item: Choice Band
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
    ivs: 0 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While this set may appear to be a gimmick at first, it is quite far from it. Ferrothorn may lack a large offensive movepool, but its two extremely powerful STAB moves in Gyro Ball and Power Whip backed by a respectable base 94 Attack stat show that this set should not be underestimated. Steel- and Grass-type attacks have surprisingly good coverage together, only being resisted by a handful of common threats, most of which possess either Steel or Fire typing. Despite Bulldoze's paltry Base Power of 60, it hits many of the Pokemon that resist Ferrothorn's STAB moves for a large amount of damage. The last moveslot is largely filler; Spikes isn't the best move to be locked into, but can be useful in certain situations. Explosion's high Base Power, on the other hand, is very appealing, but comes at the cost of Ferrothorn's life, and is not much more powerful than Ferrothorn's STAB moves.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is so effective because of Ferrothorn's surprising power when it wields a Choice Band in tandem with its useful bulk and typing. Because many players expect Ferrothorn to simply set up entry hazards or use Leech Seed, it is unlikely for the opponent to switch in a Pokemon capable of withstanding all of Ferrothorn's attacks. Here are some damage calculations to show how powerful this set is, assuming a Brave nature and 0 Speed IVs:</p>

    <ul class="damage_calculation">
    <li>Gyro Ball vs. 0/0 Salamence: 117.2% - 138.1%</li>
    <li>Gyro Ball vs 4/0 Garchomp: 94.1% - 110.9%</li>
    <li>Gyro Ball vs. 4/0 Thundurus-T: 72% - 84.7%</li>
    <li>Gyro Ball vs. 252/0 Celebi: 79.7% - 94.3%</li>
    <li>Gyro Ball vs. 252/184+ Gliscor: 58.8% - 69.5%</li>
    <li>Power Whip vs. 252/0 Conkeldurr: 65.2% - 76.8%</li>
    <li>Power Whip vs. 192/64 Reuniclus: 73.6% - 86.8%</li>
    <li>Power Whip vs. 252/236+ Tentacruel: 67.6% - 79.9%</li>
    <li>Power Whip vs. 252/252+ Reuniclus: 52.6% - 62.3%</li>
    <li>Power Whip vs. 252/252+ Suicune: 83.7% - 98.5%</li>
    <li>Power Whip vs. 252/252+ Hippowdon: 79% - 93.3%</li>
    <li>Bulldoze vs. 248/0 Heatran: 85.2% - 100.8%</li>
    <li>Bulldoze vs. 172/0 Magnezone: 95.1% - 112.3%</li>
    <li>Explosion vs. 192/64 Zapdos: 103% - 121.4%</li>
    </ul>

    <p>Despite the lack of investment in Ferrothorn's defenses, maximizing Ferrothorn's HP still provides it with a fair amount of bulk. In fact, Ferrothorn's bulk in combination with its great defensive typing is one of his main selling points over other Choice Band users such as Terrakion and Scizor, as Ferrothorn will often take multiple hits before going down. Unfortunately, there are several common Pokemon that Choice Band Ferrothorn struggles with, namely Scizor, Skarmory, Bronzong, Forretress, Zapdos, and opposing Ferrothorn. For this reason, it is wise to pair Ferrothorn up with a Fire-type. Not only do they have good offensive synergy, but a Fire-type such as Heatran or Infernape is also capable of switching in on many of the Pokemon that give this set trouble.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Two of the most noteworthy moves not mentioned above are Curse and Gravity. Curse is a viable set-up move for Ferrothorn, allowing it to boost its Attack to dangerous levels while simultaneously increasing its Defense through the roof. However, Ferrothorn is still vulnerable to Fire-type attacks, and will be OHKOed by many of them, so this set requires a great deal of team support. Gravity, on the other hand, allows Ferrothorn to act as a defensive pivot on a Gravity-based team, although Gravity itself is generally considered a gimmicky strategy.</p>

    <p>As far as individual sets are concerned, the standard set does not have many other options apart from what is listed aside from the generic Toxic. Stealth Rock is only recommended if there is no teammate that can set up Stealth Rock effectively, as Ferrothorn is one of the few useful Pokemon capable of setting up Spikes. Toxic is generally dismissed in favor of Leech Seed, which heals Ferrothorn in addition to racking up residual damage. Rugged Helmet is also a viable item choice on the standard set, as Pokemon that use contact moves against Ferrothorn will lose 25% of their health due to the combination of Rugged Helmet and Iron Barbs. This is especially helpful in warding off Pokemon that want to use Rapid Spin against Ferrothorn, especially since Rapid Spin does not remove entry hazards if the user faints from Iron Barbs immediately after using the move. On the Choice Band set, Ferrothorn can use Return, Rollout, Payback, Shadow Claw, or even Leech Seed in the fourth slot, although Spikes and Explosion are generally superior options.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Pokemon that carry Fire-type moves, such as Heatran, Infernape, Zoroark, and Hydreigon, are more than capable of forcing Ferrothorn out. However, not only is Ferrothorn is capable of surviving some weaker Fire-type attacks such as Tyranitar's Flamethrower, but if rain is up many of these attacks (particularly those that lack STAB) can be tanked by Ferrothorn quite nicely. This gives him the opportunity to either attack back or set up entry hazards. Likewise, users of powerful Fighting-type attacks, such as Conkeldurr and Terrakion, will also scare most Ferrothorn off. Magic Bounce Xatu and Espeon, as well as Taunt Skarmory, are capable of rendering Ferrothorn nearly useless, preventing him from laying down Spikes while providing team support in the form of either dual screens or Spikes, respectively.</p>

    <p>Many Pokemon that are often otherwise shut down by Ferrothorn, such as Latios and Starmie, are capable of crippling Ferrothorn if they choose to run Hidden Power Fire or Trick. Magnezone with either Hidden Power Fire or the combination of Charge Beam and Substitute is also capable of making Ferrothorn's life miserable. Finally, because Ferrothorn does not have reliable recovery outside of Leech Seed and Rest, it can eventually be worn down by powerful or boosted neutral hits. Be warned, however, that many of Ferrothorn's counters will dread switching in on the Choice Band set, especially if they are not expecting it.</p>


    GP Approved 2/2
  22. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    And after months of sitting on its hard thorny butt, this guy's ready to get uploaded! (Can't do it myself since I sorta "wrote it")
  23. BurningMan

    BurningMan fueled by beer

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    In OO Rugged Helmet is still used instead of the real translation Rocky Helmet
  24. Oglemi

    Oglemi Working hard
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    fixed that
  25. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    This has yet to be added:
    Also, Rocky Helmet should go to AC as it's a very useful item and makes Ferrothorn a pseudo-spinblocker.

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