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Ferrothorn (SubSeed) [QC 0/3]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by youngjake93, Sep 3, 2012.

  1. youngjake93


    Sep 3, 2012
    name: SubSeed
    move 1: Thunder Wave
    move 2: Leech Seed
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Spikes/Gyro Ball/Power Whip
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Calm
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD

    Ferrothorn has something great that it shares with only Celebi, Sawsbuck and Smeargle: Thunder Wave+Leech Seed
    This set utilizes the most out of Ferrothorn's bulk. At first glance, the set seems extremely taunt bait, but in reality any taunter would fear coming into this set. The most important element of the set is Thunder Wave. Paralyzing the opponent essentially puts an uninvested Ferrothorn at around 86 base speed +Spd. That means that many slower taunters that don't fear Power Whip or Gyro Ball just switched into being paralyzed and then Leech Seeded because they are now out-sped. You may want to opt for 28 speed EVs to outspeed base 100s after paralysis to widen your dominance. The choice for minimal HP does diminish bulk slightly, but it increases the effectiveness of leech seed and wish passes tremendously. Other less noticeable side effects include lowering the return of opponent drain punches, giga drains, horn leeches, and shell bells.
    This Ferrothorn plays well when it can be on the field as much as possible, so having an immediate threat to its counters is ideal. Flash Fire Chandelure scares away both fighting types and fire types with its immunities. Likewise, Gengar and Heatran provide similar support.
    Finally, although this Ferrothorn can succeed greatly in whittling down opponents while staying healthy, it's team support cannot be overlooked. Other low HP Pokemon as well as set-up sweepers that like to stay near high HP(dragonite,volcarona,drain punches,life orbers) benefit tremendously from being switched in against a leech seeded pokemon. It is also useful in maintaining Sturdy on things like Skarmory and Donphan.
    Other slow Pokemon will benefit from the great job Ferrothorn does at spreading paralysis.
    And of course, after this Ferrothorn has fulfilled its main duty of paralyzing the opponent, it can still offer support with spikes.
    If you are worried about fast taunters, Gyro Ball is an option over spikes. If you need Ferrothorn to do a better job at beating down water types with recovery, Power Whip is an option.

    What Ferrothorn can stall out with subseed after paralysis:
    Beats base 85 speed with zero speed EVs
    Beats base 100 speed with 28 speed EVs
    Beats base 110 speed with 48 speed EVs
    Beats Tornadus-T with 72 speed EVs

    Restoring the Sub:
    Against a 435 HP opponent, Ferrothorn will completely restore it's substitute with leech seed+leftovers. Factoring in chance to paralyze, Ferrothorn can expect to restore it's substitute against a 348 HP opponent(slightly higher than standard Scizor) while getting a free layer of spikes every four turns. Even against an unparalyzed Shuckle(base 20 HP lol) you are regaining 56% of your substitute back per turn. These numbers mean that Ferrothorn can effectively outstall anything it manages to paralyze with a base speed <=85 that doesn't have reliable recovery.

    You are going to probably want a ghost type in case you paralyze Scarfcross or Conkeldurr and to block rapid spinners. You also want something to absorb burns, maybe paralysis, and something to tank fire attacks. Oh and something that will gladly switch into taunt or trick and something to deter grass types(especially Celebi who shrugs off Thunder Wave).
    In my experience, Choiced Chandelure made a great partner, it loved to accept leech seed passes, was immune to fighting, blocked rapid spin, immune to fire, blasted grass types, and could care less about taunt and trick.

    Optimal Switch-ins to start wreaking havoc:
    Almost anything in rain that isn't a hurricane
    Any Outrages
    Rotom W if you think it is going to use Hydro Pump
    Boosting sweepers that you need to slow down

    Edit: Umm idk why this was locked without any reason given =/

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