Pokémon Ferrothorn

[Talpr0ne]

How in the hell wasn't there a theard about him yet? Anyways, let's write some serious shit.

NAME: Ferrothorn
TYPE:

STATS: 74/94/131/54/116/20
ABILITY: Iron Barbs (does damage when hit by a contact move)
HIDDEN ABILITY: Anticipation(warns if the foe knows a SE or OHKO move) - GenVI onwards

NOTABLE MOVES(STABS IN BOLD, STATUS MOVES IN ITALIC)

Power Whip
Gyro Ball
Spikes
Stealth Rock
Leech Seed
Protect
Thunder Wave
Bulldoze
Knock Off
Swords Dance(? LOL)
OVERVIEW


Ferrothorn is one of the most well know things from generation V, and for good reasons. The first is that this thorny plant has a pretty solid and unique typing, it is in fact the only one Steel type able to comfortably take water and electric attacks, while still sponging whit relative ease Ground and Ice attacks; this made him a solid rain and antirain mon. The second is a godly stats spread, as well as a very solid support movepool, whit both defenses very high, unlike most others steel types, and still decent attack and two powerful STABS that don't make him total setup field.

The new generation is a mixed bag for Ferrothorn: on one hand now he gained an useful resistance to Fairy type, and a decrease of Fighting types, walled by said Fairies, as well as being a Spore absorber thanks to the new powder moves mechanics. On the other hand he misses the loved rain, being more susceptible to Fire moves, although he arguably isn't going to crying in a corner like Kabutops and friends.
He also lost the resistances to Ghost and Dark, this is minor due to his high defenses i guess.

It seems also that he now has a new ability, Anticipation. Useful for scouting random HP Fires i guess?


Will the King of all the Nuts(Ferrothorn's Japanese name pun) contunue to rule the metagame? Or will it be dethroned? Discuss.

 

[dadoux]

Anticipation is kinda worthless imo...when you compare it to iron barbs which is an awesome ability with leech seed and rocky helmet and is a pain in the butt to u-turn / outrage into.

imo Ferrothorn will still be OU for various reasons :
-Awesome type and still really hard to switch into (fast mons get paralyzed, grass have to tank a strong gyro ball, stall are gonna let spikes everywhere and they can be outstalled to death)
-Incredible bulk and resistances to grass / electric / water / rock / fairy / steel / dragon / psy with 2 immunities from powder's move / leech seed and poison move
-The Poison and Steel immunity / resistance give him and awesome synergy with fairy pokemon like Togekiss (almost perfect if i'm not mistaken)
-Doesn't give a damn about sticky web, it's pretty much the contrary, stronger gyro ball hello
-Losing a dark / ghost resistance is not that horrible too.

 

[Prosecutor Godot]

This seems like it'll be another good generation for Ferrothorn. With the power creep slowing down, that also means Ferrothorn benefits from being able to use it's bulk. Breloom can no longer switch in to Spore but I don't think switching in Ferro on a Breloom is a good idea, since it can still set up on it. Resists fairies, nice, fighting types nerfed, nice. Losing resistances to Dark and Ghost isn't the end of the world for Ferro, it'll be harder to tank banded T-Tar's crunches and Gengar's Shadow Ball, who usually rely on coverage moves to take out Ferro but eh is what it is. Anticipation is interesting to use over Protect, I always have trouble deciding Ferrothorn movesets between Protect/SR/Spikes/Gyro Ball/Power Whip/Thunder Wave alongside the obligatory Leech Seed but like the above poster just said, probably not worth using over Iron Barbs.

 

[JayHankEdLyon]

There are only threads for New Mons and folks with new typings like Togekiss, which is why in the hell there wasn't a thread about him yet :)

This'll probably be modded but in the meantime you can move over here to discuss everyone's favorite durian:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/old-mon-general-discussion.3490455/page-2#post-4906525

 

[Codyksp]

So what kind of moves and stats are normally used on him? I've been sleeping under a rock since gen 3 and never played competitively so I'm clueless :)

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

I have been using this thing a lot and am writing the anyalysis, but I am wondering what EV spread you guys are using? I use a physically defensive spread to take on Belly Drum Azumarill.

 

[papita]

I am using the standard gen 5 spread and it still works for me. Ferrothorn hasn´t changed much and it still a good defensive mon. Even better now since fairies exist

 

[nikovan]

Not to be THAT guy, but this should go in the old mon general discussion since Ferrothorn did not receive any particular game changing buff (like a Mega Evolution).

Other than that, I can say that his 3 hazards + Gyro Ball set seems to be at the mercy of Defog users, so we might have to change to only Stealth Rocks + something else. His attack is decent, he could run Sneaky Pebbles, Power Whip, Gyro Ball and Toxic/Protect.

 

[Creamysan]

what IVs it should have?

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

what IVs it should have?

If you are running Ferrothorn with Gyroball, you are going to want a -Speed nature (Relaxed) and 0 Speed 0 IVs.

Otherwise, just go 31 HP, Attack, Defense, and Special Defense. The Speed and Special attack IVs can suck because you will never use them.

 

[Creamysan]

If you are running Ferrothorn with Gyroball, you are going to want a -Speed nature (Relaxed) and 0 Speed 0 IVs.

Otherwise, just go 31 HP, Attack, Defense, and Special Defense. The Speed and Special attack IVs can suck because you will never use them.

Alright, thank you!

 

[Codyksp]

There are only threads for New Mons and folks with new typings like Togekiss, which is why in the hell there wasn't a thread about him yet :)

This'll probably be modded but in the meantime you can move over here to discuss everyone's favorite durian:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/old-mon-general-discussion.3490455/page-2#post-4906525

That thread isn't exactly what I would consider to be clear. Some people would actually appreciate a seperate thread on a strong pokémon like this, especially those who haven't worshipped the previous 5 generations like gods. I for one appreciate this thread because I know nothing about this pokémon aside from the fact that he was OU.

Moving on, it seems that Spikes, Leech Seed and Stealth Rock have to be bred onto Ferroseed this gen?

 

[JayHankEdLyon]

That thread isn't exactly what I would consider to be clear. Some people would actually appreciate a seperate thread on a strong pokémon like this, especially those who haven't worshipped the previous 5 generations like gods. I for one appreciate this thread because I know nothing about this pokémon aside from the fact that he was OU.

Moving on, it seems that Spikes, Leech Seed and Stealth Rock have to be bred onto Ferroseed this gen?

http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...-please-read-before-posting-a-thread.3490381/

Rules is rules. If the mods let this thread continue, fine, just giving a friendly warning that it might not be long for this world. Lighten up, champ in the making.

 

[AJC]

ferrothorn is more annoying now that you can't just sleep powder or spore it now thanks to grass typing rendering it immune to those moves.

you have to settle for the unreliable hypnosis, dark void which only darkrai and smeargle have access to or yawn which requires ferrothorn to stay in a turn to get slept.

 

[Otter Power]

Recently I obtained a nice Ferroseed with both spikes *and* stealth rock! Would it be worth it to run both of them on Ferro, or just one of the hazards?

I currently run an adamant Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn -- he's really good at countering mega Kangaskhan, as just her fake-out double-activates the iron barbs and the rocky helmet. Ferro counters Azumarill well too, as he can take a hit from superpower.

 

[CavemanCossy]

Recently I obtained a nice Ferroseed with both spikes *and* stealth rock! Would it be worth it to run both of them on Ferro, or just one of the hazards?

I currently run an adamant Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn -- he's really good at countering mega Kangaskhan, as just her fake-out double-activates the iron barbs and the rocky helmet. Ferro counters Azumarill well too, as he can take a hit from superpower.

Here's my modified set from Gen 5;

Relaxed
252 HP / 184 Def / 68 SpD
Leftovers
~ Stealth Rock (previously Spikes)
~ Leech Seed
~ Power Whip
~ Gyro Ball

I always used to run Spikes on Ferrothorn, but I find that this isn't really that good anymore because;
- Talonflame and Charizard (X and Y) seem to be popular. Stealth Rock scares the shit out them and keeps them away from switching in.
- The buff to Defog makes it kinda redundant to run Spikes, as it requires a lot of time to fully set up whereas Stealth rock only needs one.
- Stealth Rock, aside from checking fire types, also hits flying types and levitators that would otherwise avoid spikes.

As for your counters, they really depends on the spread you run on Ferrothorn, obviously. If Mega-Kang and Azumarril worry you, I'd say it'd be best to run a Defensive spread. Here's some calcs with Choice Band Azumarill.

Popular OU EV spread from previous gen;
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Superpower vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 330-390 (93.75 - 110.79%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
My current EV spread
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Superpower vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Ferrothorn: 298-352 (84.65 - 100%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO

And here are the Mega-Kanghaskan calcs

Popular OU EV spread from previous gen;
+2 252 Atk Mega-Kanghaskan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 220-259 (62.5 - 73.57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

So I'd say your only real worry is that Azumarill using Superpower, as that's still a very possible OHKO after Stealth rock.

I'm obviously not considering Belly Drum Azumarill because, no matter what set you run, Ferrothorn ain't surviving Superpower from +6 Atk.

 

[tyronetheblack]

what would be a good counter for this pokemon my teams get destroyed be ferrothorn?

 

[Clair]

Ferrothorn lost a bit in the generation shift. Rain's been mentioned but Defog is the more serious problem, especially since Ferro has little way of touching most common Foggers. Hard countering Azumarill without Superpower is a nice niche though.

 

[ColtCababa]

-The Poison and Steel immunity / resistance give him and awesome synergy with fairy pokemon like Togekiss (almost perfect if i'm not mistaken)

That can be said for many other Steel types.

I have been using this thing a lot and am writing the anyalysis, but I am wondering what EV spread you guys are using? I use a physically defensive spread to take on Belly Drum Azumarill.

I'd be wary of that if Azumarill happens to run Superpower:

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 190-224 (53.9 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[tyronetheblack]

That can be said for many other Steel types.


I'd be wary of that if Azumarill happens to run Superpower:

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 190-224 (53.9 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

what about the attack loss after one superpower?

 

[Debury]

what would be a good counter for this pokemon my teams get destroyed be ferrothorn?

It doesn't like fire very much, nor does it like fighting so things like Conkeldurr and Keldeo are handy. Keldeo less so if it packs vine whip mind you.

Can be phased out by burning it and then switching in a grass type or Goodra with Sap Sipper to weaken it further. You dont always need to go for the big KO with a ferrothorn as it only really ever has either Gyro Ball or Vine whip to hurt you which teams can resist quite comfortably. Leech seed is good for recovery but its like a charged up pile of leftovers and takes the turn to set it as long as you don't miss with it.

I once used the move curse on Ferrothorn which worked pretty well as it then slows itself down further so Gyro ball hits even harder. After a couple of curses this thing was even harder to take down.

 

[Milkshook]

Hmmmmm. Is Choice band Ferrothorn still viable? And what would happen if you took the Choice band set, and gave it an Assault vest instead? o.o

 

[Jaroda]

Ferrothorn's mediocre attack, poor offensive movepool, atrocious speed with the inability to switch moves is a death sentence. At best you can hope for a really strong Gyro Ball on something fast, or an Explosion to say farewell, but its a poor misuse of his strong suits.

As for Assault Vest: Poor power, can't lay hazards, and can't use Thunder Wave, Leech Seed or Leftovers. You're a sitting duck quite frankly.

 

[Milkshook]

Ferrothorn's mediocre attack, poor offensive movepool, atrocious speed with the inability to switch moves is a death sentence. At best you can hope for a really strong Gyro Ball on something fast, or an Explosion to say farewell, but its a poor misuse of his strong suits.

As for Assault Vest: Poor power, can't lay hazards, and can't use Thunder Wave, Leech Seed or Leftovers. You're a sitting duck quite frankly.

I was never a big fan of banded Ferrothorn myself. Or any Ferrothorn. But I felt like it would be worth mentioning as it seemed good.

 

[midend]

I run a mono attacking statuser.
Thornintheneck@lefties
252Def/252hp/4atk,impish
Iron barbs
Power whip
Sr
Twave
Leech seed
Team needed grass coverage, so i slotted him in. Very standard, but that's how it works. Twave really annoys the hell out of sweepers thinking it can set up on it, and those who arent get sapped by leechseed.

On a side note banded ferro hurts like mad. Bulldoze smacks so many switch ins for mad damage...esp ttar, terrakion, chandy, entei