Ferrothorn

[PichuFTW]

Still finishing up.

Overview

-Great Typing that leaves it with many resistances and a few weaknesses.
-Great support moves such as Spikes, Thunder Wave, Stealth Rocks, and Leech Seed.
-Great defenses.
-Iron Barbs helps let physical attack not hit Ferrothorn
-Decent Attack stat to do some damage when it has to.
-Grass and Steel STABS are strong.
-Fire and Fighting is very common.
-No longer has rain support to help with the x4 fire weakness.
-Steel nerf allows Ghost and Dark types bypass Ferrothorn.
-With the introduction of Defog, Ferrothorn has a hard time setting up hazards without being blown away.


Support
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Move 1: Spikes/Stealth Rock
Move 2: Leech Seed
Move 3: Thunder Wave/Gyro Ball
Move 4: Power Whip/Protect
Ability: Iron Barbs
Item: Leftovers/Rocky Helmet
EVs: 252 HP, 48 Def, 208 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Nature: Relaxed

Moves
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-Spikes and Stealth Rock are there to have hazards on the field.
-Leech Seed provides Ferrothorn the recovery it needs to survive.
-Thunder Wave is there to cripple fast threats such as Talonflame and Greninja while Gyro Ball allows you to hit faster Pokemon hard.
-Power Whip allows you to hit Ground, Water, and Rock types hard while Protect allows you to get Leech Seed recovery while scouting the opponent.
-Do not run Gyro Ball and Thunder Wave on the same set.

Set Details
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-Leftovers helps Ferrothorn heal when it can not use Leech Seed while Rocky Helmet effectively takes 25% of a Physical Attack when it is hit with a Direct Contact move.
-The EV spreads are there to allow Ferrothorn to perform as a mixed wall. If you already have a Special or Physical Wall, you can put EVs in Defense or Special Defense to make Ferrothorn a stronger wall of the wall you do not have.
-Relaxed nature and the 0 Speed IVs allows Gyro Ball to take maximum damage.

Usage Tips
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-Switch in Ferrothorn to a Pokemon that Ferrothorn resists.
-Once Ferrothorn is in, set up Spikes or Stealth Rocks if needed, or Thunder Wave the upcoming counter or Leech Seed if it already has a status.
-Ferrothorn hates burns, but does not care too much about paralysis as Gyro Ball gets stronger.

Team Options
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-Many setup sweepers enjoy the hazards that Ferrothorn provide.
-Water-types such as Rotom-W and Azumarill works very well together as Water-types in general help resist many types together.
-Pokemon that resist both Fire and Fighting are great partners to Ferrothorn such as Azumarill, Dragonite, and Salamence.

Other Options
#########
-A Choice Band Ferrothorn can throw off certain Pokemon and do a lot of damage, but the only real damage Ferrothorn will do is to hurt Fire-types with Bulldoze.
-Ferrothorn can also run Toxic to poison other Pokemon that like to setup on Ferrothorn, but most Pokemon switch out by the time they get Thunder Wave or Leech Seeded.

Checks and Counters
##########
-Many Fire-type Pokemon can end Ferrothorn quite easily such as Talonflame, Charizard X, Charizard Y, and Victini. However, to Physical attackers, none of them would like to lose 25% of their health by the Iron Barb and Rocky Helmet combo.
-Any Pokemon with a strong Attack or Special Attack stat with a fire move can often make Ferrothorn switch or KO on the spot.
-Pokemon with strong Fighting-type STAB such as Lucario and Conkeldurr can force Ferrothorn out.
-Taunt users such as Sableye, Thundurus, and Gliscor often shut down Ferrothorn while only Thundurus fears Gyro Ball.
-Burning Ferrothorn can cripple it in some ways.

 

[Ash Borer]

Ferrothorn learns knock off, should be one of the first things mentioned imo. Defog really kills spike stacking, Zapdos, hp fire latias, and some other anti hazards pokemon even remove them on ferrothorn itself.

SR is fine because rocks are rocks, but, knock off is ab etter move than spikes for this thing now imo.

 

[Swamp Link]

I know you're just working off last gen's analysis, but the ev spread then I believe was to tank +2 Haxorus's EQ, which isn't relevant at all anymore, really, so that should probably. To what, I don't know, that would take some testing and feedback from people who have used it, since I have not, but that spread doesn't seem optimal.
According to this, optimal ev's for overall bulk would be 252 HP/88 Def/168 SpD Sassy, but you'd probably want to find some benchmarks.

 

[PichuFTW]

I honestly forgot about Knock Off... lol.

I was not exactly sure of Standard Ferrothorn's EVs, so I left it in WIP. I use a custom EV set to take certain hits, but I was not sure what EVs everyone else use.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

I've been messing around with certain spreads, and 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD with a Relaxed nature hits a bonus point in Defense while also allowing it to live two of these attacks:

252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 128+ Def Ferrothorn: 156-185 (44.3 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 128 SpD Ferrothorn: 161-190 (45.7 - 53.9%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 128+ Def Ferrothorn: 160-190 (45.4 - 53.9%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Unowninator]

I've been considering Anticipation as its ability to alert me of a surprise Fire attack. Is it worth going through that hassle for it? Why or why not?

 

[PichuFTW]

Well, its usually obvious on what Pokemon has a fire attack. If it is like a Blissey for example, Ferrothorn will still be able to take two of those. If a Specs Latios has Hidden Power Fire, Ferrothorn will live it with enough Specia Bulk. What I am trying to say is, Pokemon that are not Fire Types or Dragons do not carry Fire type moves in many cases. There are few exceptions though. Usually, just run Iron Barbs so you can punish Physical Attackers like Aegislash and Azumarill :).

I will finish editing Ferrothorn tomorrow(Its not done yet). So it should be in QC by then. Sorry about the delay :(.

 

[Swamp Link]

Yeah, Anticipation's not a worthless ability, but Iron Barbs is really good. Anticipation probably shouldn't be mentioned outside of OO.

 

[Gamerjimi]

Why would anyone run Impish? I get that it only lowers Special Attack but Ferrothorn wants to be as slow as possible for Gyro Ball. Too many things take a pretty big chunk from Gyro Ball, like Terrakion and other fast threats that can't OHKO Ferrothorn.

 

[Shiruba]

Why would anyone run Impish? I get that it only lowers Special Attack but Ferrothorn wants to be as slow as possible for Gyro Ball. Too many things take a pretty big chunk from Gyro Ball, like Terrakion and other fast threats that can't OHKO Ferrothorn.

I guess if you're not running Gyro Ball? Maybe you can outspeed a few things at a quarter of their actual speed [after paralysis] if you have a neutral nature.
Not sure about specifics, though.

 

[Gamerjimi]

I guess if you're not running Gyro Ball? Maybe you can outspeed a few things at a quarter of their actual speed [after paralysis] if you have a neutral nature.
Not sure about specifics, though.

I used a Thunder Wave Slowbro last gen for a while, which has stat of 30, and don't remember out speeding anything after paralysis. But, like you said, not sure about specific calcs though.

 

[QxC4eva]

I know you're just working off last gen's analysis, but the ev spread then I believe was to tank +2 Haxorus's EQ, which isn't relevant at all anymore, really, so that should probably. To what, I don't know, that would take some testing and feedback from people who have used it, since I have not, but that spread doesn't seem optimal.
According to this, optimal ev's for overall bulk would be 252 HP/88 Def/168 SpD Sassy, but you'd probably want to find some benchmarks.

Both spreads give ferrothorn 352/320/341 or 352/341/320 defenses so neither one is more optimal than the other.

 

[Yuri]

Definitely slash Knock Off somewhere as all Defog and Rapid Spin users miss their items (except maybe Baloon Excadrill). Lati@s in particular are hit by a HUGE chunk. Additionaly, Conkeldurr will miss its Assault Vest. It should probably be the first option in slot 4.

Sylveon and Clefable are great partners as they can soak up Fightning and Fire moves and further threaten the Lati@s while Heal Belling a burn away and providing Wish support. Ferrothorn also resists the Steel and Poison type attacks that scare the fairies away.

It isn't that great at checking Mega Pinsir as Return still deals a ton and it can Earthquake what is left of Ferrothorn after that. On the other hand, Gyro Ball hits it for like 70% and Thunder Wave neuters it almost completely.

 

[Magnemite]

All right, so the new strategy dex is going up very soon and there are several Pokemon, including this one, that do not currently have completed analyses. PichuFTW, if you could please try to make this look presentable within the next day, that would be helpful. Please contact user darkie once you've made it look presentable (by that I mean "acceptable to be on-site") and refer to and update this pirate pad: https://www.piratepad.ca/p/dex_skeletons

This needs to be done by tomorrow afternoon (GMT -6), so make sure you get it done! If you can't make it look presentable in the next day, please say so in the pirate pad so someone else can make a quick skeleton of it. Thanks!

 

[Martin]

Maybe try having CB out of OO? It is still highly effective this gen, and only bolstered further by the Knock Off buff

 

[Unowninator]

Maybe try having CB out of OO? It is still highly effective this gen, and only bolstered further by the Knock Off buff

Don't forget Pin Missile.

 

[Martin]

Don't forget Pin Missile.

oh yea. that was buffed too, although less significant than Knock Off. I feel that the set is probably MORE viable than it was last gen.

 

[KnockYourselfOut - Kyo]

Add Swords Dance and Curse to OO. Those share similar problems to Choice Band.

EDIT: Do however mention that after a Swords Dance boost + Life Orb / Iron Plate, Ferrothorn can OHKO-2HKO resisted Pokemon like offensive Mega Charizard X after Stealth Rocks with Gyro Ball.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 255-300 (85.5 - 100.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Iron Plate Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 236-278 (79.1 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

The issue is just that it's hard for it to set up a Swords Dance and execute a Gyro Ball right afterwards. I must admit, the damage Power Whip and Gyro Ball do after those boosts is impressive!

EDIT 2: CyclicCompound Yeah, that's basically why I said OO. Well put.

 

[CyclicCompound]

Why are we discussing any offensive sets? Ferrothorn runs offensive sets as gimmicks and poor lures, there is no reason for them to be anywhere out of OO. Considering how bulky the metagame has become, it's harder than it was before to successfully knock something out before someone discovers your gimmick and outplays it (which isn't hard, considering Ferrothorn lacks a truly spammable move). There are so many other better offensive options in Excadrill and Scizor that basically achieve everything Ferrothorn is going for, except with far better offensive stats and the ability to actually outrun stuff and be threatening. Choice Band Ferrothorn sucks because there are a hundred and one Pokemon that can set up on each of Ferrothorn's moves. Swords Dance sucks because nobody in their right mind would let it set up AND get a kill.

Please. I'm not QC, but really, keep these sets to OO.

 

[Colonel M]

I will be taking this over per request of Quality Control.