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Battle Spot Ferrothorn

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Psynergy, Jul 19, 2017.

  1. Psynergy

    Psynergy Guaranteed Crits
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    [​IMG]

    [OVERVIEW]

    Ferrothorn is one of the most effective Stealth Rock users in the Battle Spot Singles metagame, fitting well onto many teams due to its fantastic defensive typing. Ferrothorn's great bulk in conjunction with its numerous resistances allows it to check a wide range of threats such as Tapu Koko, Tapu Lele, Mimikyu, Garchomp, Mega Metagross, and Mega Kangaskhan. Its Iron Barbs ability, Stealth Rock, and Leech Seed combined allow it to effectively wear down teams and function as strong support. Powerful STAB moves and decent Attack make Ferrothorn less passive than most defensive Pokemon and allow it to function as an effective Choice Band user. However, Ferrothorn suffers from weaknesses to common Fire- and Fighting-type attacks, and with its low Speed, this makes it very susceptible to unexpected coverage moves such as Hidden Power Fire.

    [SET]
    name: Support
    move 1: Gyro Ball
    move 2: Stealth Rock
    move 3: Leech Seed
    move 4: Protect / Power Whip / Bullet Seed
    item: Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
    ability: Iron Barbs
    nature: Relaxed / Sassy
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]
    Moves
    ========

    * Gyro Ball is Ferrothorn's strongest STAB move, hitting most offensive threats at maximum power due to Ferrothorn's low Speed.
    * Stealth Rock offers team support in the form of residual damage that breaks Focus Sash and Sturdy while also pressuring Fire-types that threaten Ferrothorn such as Charizard and Volcarona.
    * Leech Seed grants Ferrothorn extra recovery and another way to wear down foes. This also helps it threaten bulky foes it otherwise can't touch such as Porygon2 and Celesteela.
    * Protect allows Ferrothorn to take full advantage of Leftovers and Leech Seed recovery to stay healthy while also allowing it to scout for potential Z-Moves.
    * Power Whip increases Ferrothorn's offensive presence by being a secondary STAB option that hits most Water- and Ground-types harder than Gyro Ball. It can also be used over Stealth Rock to retain the utility that Protect provides.
    * Bullet Seed gives Ferrothorn a better matchup against Mimikyu and provides a more accurate Grass-type STAB attack than Power Whip, though its damage output is less consistent than Power Whip's.

    Set Details
    ========

    * Leftovers gives Ferrothorn a steady source of recovery, allowing it to reliably stall out foes with Leech Seed and Protect.
    * Iron Barbs allows Ferrothorn to punish physical attackers that make contact, slowly wearing them down for its team. Rocky Helmet can be used instead of Leftovers to augment this residual damage at the cost of reliable recovery.
    * A Relaxed nature with 0 Speed IVs maximizes Ferrothorn's physical bulk while making it as slow as possible to ensure Gyro Ball is hitting at maximum power most of the time.
    * The EV spread makes Ferrothorn as physically bulky as possible, with the remaining EVs placed in Attack. Ferrothorn can be more specially defensive with a Sassy nature if checking the likes of Tapu Koko and Tapu Lele is more important than taking physical attacks.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    * Ferrothorn should prioritize setting Stealth Rock up as soon as possible, since its fantastic bulk and typing allow it to safely set up against anything that lacks a Fire- or Fighting-type move.
    * Ferrothorn often forces switches due to its great defensive typing, so using Leech Seed in anticipation of a switch is often a safe play.
    * While Stealth Rock punishes most Fire-types, Ferrothorn's presence often invites Fire-types to switch in immediately, so avoid setting Stealth Rock too soon if you have nothing that can afford to switch into a Fire-type attack afterwards.
    * Despite being able to disrupt many Pokemon with its Leech Seed and powerful STAB moves, Ferrothorn should not be relied upon to break through very bulky foes, as it lacks the offensive presence to overpower them.
    * Many Pokemon that Ferrothorn typically checks often run coverage specifically for it, such as Fire Punch Mega Kangaskhan and Hidden Power Fire Tapu Koko, so be wary of any such potential lures when against teams that otherwise look weak to Ferrothorn.

    Team Options
    ========

    * Setup sweepers such as Mega Blaziken, Mega Salamence, and Mega Charizard X benefit greatly from Stealth Rock support wearing down the opposing team and breaking Focus Sash.
    * Flying-types such as Zapdos and the aforementioned Mega Salamence appreciate Ferrothorn's ability to switch into Rock- and Ice-type moves, and in return, they're able to switch into Fighting-type moves that threaten Ferrothorn. They also ease Ferrothorn's matchup against Ground-types that might overpower it otherwise such as Garchomp and Landorus-T.
    * Water-types such as Gyarados and Tapu Fini deal with Fire-types that threaten Ferrothorn, while Ferrothorn can handle Electric- and Grass-type moves in return. Pelipper or Politoed can also provide rain support to let Ferrothorn take weaker Fire-type attacks.
    * Tyranitar benefits from Ferrothorn's resistances to Fairy, Water, Grass, and Steel while faring better against Mega Charizard X and Mega Charizard Y than Water-types. Sandstorm damage also helps Ferrothorn wear down the opposing team.
    * Ferrothorn struggles with bulky Electric-types such as Zapdos and some Thundurus-T variants, so it appreciates teammates that can handle them such as Landorus-T, Mamoswine, and Toxic Zapdos.
    * Ferrothorn's great defensive typing allows it to fit well as glue on many teams, as it doesn't require much support to fill its role beyond having a teammate that can handle Fire-type moves.

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Gyro Ball
    move 2: Bullet Seed
    move 3: Power Whip
    move 4: Knock Off / Bulldoze
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Iron Barbs
    nature: Brave
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]
    Moves
    ========

    * Gyro Ball is Ferrothorn's strongest and most reliable STAB move, capable of breaking through most fast threats.
    * Bullet Seed gives Ferrothorn a secondary STAB option that breaks through Substitute, which helps it avoid being helpless against all Substitute users despite its low Speed.
    * Power Whip is a more consistently powerful Grass-type attack than Bullet Seed for situations where the extra power is more desirable at the cost of accuracy and ability to break through Substitute.
    * Knock Off takes advantage of the switches Ferrothorn often forces, providing utility in removing the foe's item as well as great neutral coverage. It also gives Ferrothorn a way to hit Aegislash.
    * Bulldoze gives Ferrothorn a way to punish Fire-types that expect to set up freely on it such as Blaziken and Heatran while also letting it help its teammates through the Speed drops.


    Set Details
    ========

    * Choice Band is necessary to give Ferrothorn as much immediate power as possible to surprise foes expecting Ferrothorn to be a support variant.
    * Iron Barbs allows Ferrothorn to punish physical attackers that make contact, which is useful for wearing down foes that Ferrothorn can't reliably OHKO on its own.
    * A Brave nature with 0 Speed IVs maximizes Ferrothorn's Attack while making it as slow as possible for Gyro Ball.
    * The EV spread makes Ferrothorn as powerful as possible while giving it maximum overall bulk because Ferrothorn will often be taking damage before attacking.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    * Choice Band Ferrothorn functions best as a lure, since the opponent will most likely assume Ferrothorn is running a defensive set.
    * Ferrothorn's STAB combination isn't great, so be careful when locking into either of its STAB moves if the opposing team has any dangerous setup sweepers that can take advantage of it.
    * Gyro Ball is very powerful even against resistant foes, provided that the foe is fast, so locking into it is often a safe move.
    * If the opposing team has many slow or Steel-resistant Pokemon, Power Whip and Bullet Seed are often safer moves to lock into.
    * It's not uncommon for teams to run multiple Z-Crystal users or even multiple Mega Evolutions, so be careful about locking into Knock Off if there's a good chance of one of these Pokemon switching in.
    * While Ferrothorn's natural bulk is great, a lack of recovery means that Ferrothorn will be quickly worn down, so avoid switching Ferrothorn directly in if possible.


    Team Options
    ========

    * Ferrothorn appreciates Dragon- and Water-types such as Mega Salamence, Mega Charizard X, and Tapu Fini handling Fire-type moves that threaten it.
    * Flying- and Ghost-types such as Zapdos, Landorus-T, Aegislash, and Mega Gengar can switch into Fighting-type moves that threaten Ferrothorn.
    * Stealth Rock support helps Ferrothorn take advantage of the surprise factor of doing huge damage to foes, so teammates such as Mamoswine and Hippowdon pair well with it.
    * Ferrothorn appreciates bulky teammates such as the aforementioned Zapdos and Hippowdon being able to take multiple hits as well as offer status support and extra residual damage to help Ferrothorn break through foes more easily.
    * Intimidate support from the likes of Gyarados and Salamence helps Ferrothorn switch into physical attacks more comfortably, which is valuable because it will likely take another hit before it gets a chance to attack.


    [STRATEGY COMMENTS]
    Other Options
    =============

    * Toxic gives Ferrothorn a more reliable option than Leech Seed for breaking down bulky foes such as Porygon2, though this is better left to one of Ferrothorn's teammates.
    * Thunder Wave can punish fast foes that might otherwise set up relatively safely against Ferrothorn, though it has poor synergy with Gyro Ball and Ferrothorn has difficulty giving up a moveslot for it.
    * Explosion can be used on the Choice Band set as a last-resort option, though it's difficult to fit onto such a slow Choice Band user.
    * Payback is a more consistently powerful alternative to Knock Off on the Choice Band set that reliably 2HKOes Mega Metagross, though the utility of removing an item usually makes Knock Off the preferred choice.
    * Curse gives Ferrothorn a way to increase its offensive presence while boosting its Defense further, though it's difficult to fit into a set and it doesn't help Ferrothorn against Fire-types.
    * A Sitrus Berry or Figy Berry can be used to give Ferrothorn more immediate recovery than Leftovers, though Ferrothorn is bulky enough to take better advantage of Leftovers.


    Checks and Counters
    ===================

    **Fire-type Pokemon and Moves**: Fire-types such as Blaziken, Mega Charizard X, Mega Charizard Y, and Heatran all easily OHKO Ferrothorn with their respective Fire-type moves and don't take much from either of its STAB moves. Ferrothorn's huge Fire-type weakness also leaves it vulnerable to common Fire-type coverage users such as Hidden Power Fire Tapu Lele, Tapu Koko, and Greninja, Fire Fang Garchomp, and Fire Punch Mega Kangaskhan. Physical attackers should still be mindful of Iron Barbs and Rocky Helmet recoil, though, especially in combination with Flare Blitz recoil.

    **Fighting-types**: Fighting-types such as Mega Lucario, Mega Lopunny, Mega Heracross, and Pheromosa can all threaten Ferrothorn with their respective Fighting-type STAB moves. Mega Lucario and Mega Heracross in particular threaten to set up with Swords Dance, since they don't mind Gyro Ball. However, Mega Lopunny and Pheromosa rely on High Jump Kick to beat Ferrothorn, so they must be wary of Protect.

    **Physically Bulky Pokemon**: Ferrothorn has trouble breaking through physically bulky Pokemon that can't easily be worn down through Leech Seed such as Mega Mawile, Celesteela, and Kartana. While Celesteela doesn't like taking a Leech Seed, it often runs Flamethrower or Substitute to beat Ferrothorn. Meanwhile, Kartana and Mega Mawile can threaten to set up with Swords Dance and break through with Sacred Sword and Knock Off, respectively.

    **Bulky Electric-types**: Bulky Electric-types such as Zapdos, bulky Thundurus-T, Magnezone, and Rotom-H all take very little from Ferrothorn's STAB moves, and they often run coverage for Ferrothorn such as Heat Wave or Focus Blast. Magnezone in particular can potentially trap Ferrothorn and remove it with Hidden Power Fire, and it only fears the uncommon Bulldoze from Choice Band variants.
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
  2. Psynergy

    Psynergy Guaranteed Crits
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    There was some discussion on Choice Band Ferrothorn on Discord I'm logging for reference even though it's not a formal stamp. Theorymon also gave this a formal check as well, logged that separately.

    Band Discussion (open)

    [5:08 AM] Jhon-: Ferrothorn @ Choice Band
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Gyro Ball
    - Power Whip
    - Bullet Seed / Explosion - Knock Off / Bulldoze Is what I was thinking of for band ferro a while back



    [5:10 AM] Jhon-: What you have for comparison:
    move 1: Gyro Ball move 2: Bullet Seed move 3: Knock Off / Power Whip move 4: Power Whip / Bulldoze
    I still generally prefer Pwhip as the priority over seed, buthaving both I think is very common on band(edited)



    [5:14 AM] noved: I used band ferro a lot and would not want it without seed, the multi hit move is really useful



    [5:33 AM] Jhon-: I like it for the accuracy foremost, and multi-hit second. The only common~ish sub users it helps against are Gyara and Suicune. Sash users (hits required): Prima (2), Mamo (3), Cloyster (3 if at -1def), Lele (4), Nihilego (4) But on the other side, stuff like fiwam Fini drops to a single pwhip while seed triggers the berry. And the average damage is far higher on Whip, since it's just slightly weaker than a 5-hit seed.



    [5:44 AM] noved: Gliscor and curse mimikyu are also things you wanna hit



    [6:12 AM] Jhon-: Curse Mimi is fine for it. Gliscor is iffy, it's only really useful in a last mon scenario, where the Ferro is healthy. eq is 4hko (possible 3 on some modern gliscor varients), so if you don't get good rolls (no 2-hits) then you can actually still lose it. And the issue of locking into a weak grass attack against something with protect and resistant switchins out back. I see Gliscor, when not on stall, paired with Charizard quite often, Ferro just become setup bait.



    [6:15 AM] noved: i mean its still better than not having any good option vs it



    [6:16 AM] noved: without it you get sub'd on easily



    [6:16 AM] noved: but i still think the accuracy + dealing with curse mimi is enough to push its viability



    [6:17 AM] noved: curse mimi was the common set in that 2000+ friendly comp and on ps high ladder looks like the same trend is happening(edited)



    [6:18 AM] noved: its definitely a mon i think is important to deal with quickly



    [6:26 AM] Jhon-: I just went through nouthuca searching cb ferro fron singles S2-4 The results with these sets https://pastebin.com/952uX4Uh



    [6:26 AM] Jhon-: Basically nearly always have both



    [6:28 AM] Jhon-: 1 count of bullet no whip, 3 counts of whip no bullet and 11 counts of having both



    [6:32 AM] noved: i def think both is optimal



    [6:32 AM] noved: i'd probs have the set as gyro|bs|pw|knock/bulldoze(edited)



    [6:34 AM] Jhon-: I'd shoot for that as well



    [6:36 AM] Jhon-: Thoughts on mentioning payback in oo, after seeing it on those sets I looked at the one calc I assumed it was for (M-Meta) and it 2hkos even the varients which ev to sruvive lando eq, which knock just misses out on. Knock itself only having a ~40% to 2hko no bulk meta (though you probably get barbs at some point) It KO's bulky M-Gengar too if locking into gyro is an issue



    [6:39 AM] noved: Yeah thats pretty cool

    Theorymon check (open)

    [9:30 PM] Theorymon: hmm In the overview I'd mention that its high BP moves also make it less passive than most other defensive Pokemon



    [9:32 PM] Theorymon: Not sure if this is worth slashing in, but I've seen players use Power Whip over Stealth Rock before so they can have extra coverage with Protect. I feel like that isn't quite as good as last gen since Charizard and Volcarona got better, but I think that's worth mentioning in set comments at least



    [9:33 PM] Psynergy: oh that's probably worth mentioning yeah, don't think I'd slash it in there though



    [9:34 PM] Psynergy: since no SR is definitely viable



    [9:34 PM] Theorymon: they have some annoyig type overlap, but I'd consider mentioning TTar just because Water-types don't do too well against Mega Charizard Y



    [9:35 PM] Theorymon: Focus Blast makes that iffy tho



    [9:35 PM] Theorymon: but tbh



    [9:35 PM] Psynergy: well focus blast isn't super common



    [9:35 PM] Theorymon: I dont really see many FB Charizard now a days lol



    [9:36 PM] Theorymon: seems to be at 6% usage



    [9:36 PM] Theorymon: yeah you can wing that



    [9:38 PM] Theorymon: hmm maybe you could mention Payback in OO, I remember it making a difference in some calc but idr what it was



    [9:38 PM] Theorymon: lemme think



    [9:38 PM] Theorymon: (for CB)



    [9:39 PM] Theorymon: oh yeah I think it beats Mega Metagross more reliably?



    [9:40 PM] Theorymon: 252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Metagross: 70-84 (45.1 - 54.1%) -- 39.8% chance to 2HKO



    [9:40 PM] Theorymon: 252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Payback (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Metagross: 106-126 (68.3 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



    [9:40 PM] Theorymon: yeah I'd say that's OO worthy at least



    [9:41 PM] Psynergy: hm probably



    [9:42 PM] Theorymon: I sorta want to say mention Curse too since it has the bulk for it, but note that Curse doesn't really help Ferrothorn much with its checks since its mostly Fire-types



    [9:42 PM] Psynergy: with usage that low it should probably stay there though



    [9:42 PM] Psynergy: I almost mentioned curse but opted against it initially



    [9:42 PM] Theorymon: also lol I once used SD Ferrothorn wayback, but idk about that man it only works on TR rofl



    [9:42 PM] Psynergy: bc I couldn't think of any concrete reason to mention it beyond "it gives ferrothorn more attack"



    [9:42 PM] Theorymon: honestly I think that's good enough reason, + it lets you tell people why it isn't too common



    [9:43 PM] Theorymon: aka "That won't help against Fire-types"



    [9:43 PM] Theorymon: otherwise besides my nitpicks, the analysis seems fine to me



    [9:43 PM] Theorymon: Ferrothorn is really straight-foward lol



    [9:44 PM] Theorymon: just tell me when you implement that stuff and I'll stamp it



    [9:44 PM] Theorymon: also Ima upload Landorus-T as well



    [9:44 PM] Psynergy: oh before that, do you have any comments on the CB slashes?



    [9:44 PM] Theorymon: I think they're fine, though I'll admit that sometimes I use Power Whip > Bullet Seed but I think I'm in the minority there



    [9:45 PM] Psynergy: discussion before this seemed to converge to gyro ball bullet seed and power whip as mandatory with bulldoze and knock off slashed in the last



    [9:45 PM] Theorymon: oh



    [9:45 PM] Theorymon: hmm I think I might slightly prefer that



    [9:45 PM] Theorymon: because CB Power Whip despite its accuracy



    [9:45 PM] Theorymon: I find it more reliable than Bullet Seed cuz Bullet Seed sometimes whiffs lol



    [9:45 PM] Theorymon: but breaking subs is no joke



    [9:45 PM] Psynergy: the current slashes are just based on what I've seen both on blogs and in my experience



    [9:46 PM] Theorymon: I think that only works well against offensive sub mons tho



    [9:46 PM] Psynergy: but both bulldoze and knock off feels iffy to me this gen



    [9:46 PM] Psynergy: even though a lot of them do run both



    [9:46 PM] Theorymon: tbh the last slot is mostly filler anyways



    [9:46 PM] Psynergy: I've even seen seed bomb tbh but I don't think I'll mention that



    [9:47 PM] Theorymon: lol Seed Bomb is the "FUCK SPACIAL REND IM GONNA USE DRAGON PULSE PALKIA" option to me



    [9:47 PM] Psynergy: yeah lol



    [9:48 PM] Psynergy: the set I saw with it was gyro seed bomb bulldoze knock off



    [9:48 PM] Psynergy: last season too
    Demantoid, Jhon and Theorymon like this.
  3. NOVED

    NOVED twitch.tv/novedpoke
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    I'd slash Bullet Seed after Power Whip on the first set. It's nice to have a 100% acc grass stab and hits through Disguise to help deal with Curse Mimikyu a little faster.

    * Many Pokemon that Ferrothorn checks often run coverage specifically for it, so be wary of any potential lures that can threaten it, especially on teams that otherwise look weak to Ferrothorn.
    I think giving some examples here would be nice, some that come to mind for me are Fire Punch Kanga and HP Fire Primarina. If there's others you can think of that you'd rather add that's cool too.

    * Flying-types such as Zapdos and the aforementioned Mega Salamence appreciate Ferrothorn's ability to switch into Rock- and Ice-type moves, while being able to switch into Fighting-type moves that threaten Ferrothorn.
    I'd also add that they can take some ease off Ferrothorn dealing with Ground-types, cause Lando EQs can wear down Ferro a decent bit sometimes.

    * Thunder Wave can punish fast foes that might otherwise set up relatively safely against Ferrothorn, though it has difficulty giving up a moveslot for it.
    Probably mention that the anti-synergy with Gyro Ball can make it a bit awkward too sometimes.

    Everything else looks good, nice work man. 2/2
  4. The Dutch Plumberjack

    The Dutch Plumberjack ace of wands
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    GP 1/2
    free HP fire ferro (open)
    [OVERVIEW]

    Ferrothorn is one of the most effective Stealth Rock users in the Battle Spot Singles metagame, fitting well onto many teams due to its fantastic defensive typing. Ferrothorn's great bulk in conjunction with its numerous resistances allow it to check a wide range of threats such as Tapu Koko, Tapu Lele, Mimikyu, Garchomp, Mega Metagross, and Mega Kangaskhan. Its Iron Barbs ability, Stealth Rock and Leech Seed all allow it to effectively wear down teams and function as a strong support for its team. Powerful STAB moves and decent Attack also make Ferrothorn less passive than most defensive Pokemon and allow to function as an effective Choice Band user. However, Ferrothorn also suffers from weaknesses to common Fire- and Fighting-type attacks, and with its low Speed, (AC) this makes it very susceptible to unexpected coverage moves such as Hidden Power Fire.

    [SET]
    name: Support
    move 1: Gyro Ball
    move 2: Stealth Rock
    move 3: Leech Seed
    move 4: Protect / Power Whip / Bullet Seed
    item: Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
    ability: Iron Barbs
    nature: Relaxed / Sassy
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]
    Moves
    ========

    * Gyro Ball is Ferrothorn's strongest STAB move, hitting most offensive threats at maximum power due to its low Speed.
    * Stealth Rock offers team support in the form of residual damage that breaks Focus Sash and Sturdy (RC) while also pressuring Fire-types such as Charizard and Volcarona that threaten Ferrothorn.
    * Leech Seed grants Ferrothorn extra recovery while giving it another way to wear down foes. This also helps it threaten other bulky foes it otherwise can't touch, such as Porygon2 and Celesteela.
    * Protect allows Ferrothorn to take full advantage of Leftovers and Leech Seed recovery to stay healthy (RC) while also allowing it to scout for potential Z-Moves.
    * Power Whip increases Ferrothorn's offensive presence, giving a secondary STAB option that hits most Water- and Ground-types harder than Gyro Ball. Power Whip It can also be used over Stealth Rock to have both the utility that Protect provides and the secondary STAB option at the same time.
    * Bullet Seed gives Ferrothorn a better matchup against Mimikyu and provides a more accurate Grass-type STAB than Power Whip, though its damage output is less consistent than Power Whip's.

    Set Details
    ========

    * Leftovers gives Ferrothorn a steady source of recovery, allowing it to reliably stall out foes with with Leech Seed and Protect.
    * Iron Barbs allows Ferrothorn to punish physical attackers that make contact, slowly wearing them down for its team. Rocky Helmet can be used instead of Leftovers to augment this residual damage, at the cost of reliable recovery.
    * A Relaxed nature with a 0 Speed IV maximizes Ferrothorn's physical bulk while making it as slow as possible to ensure Gyro Ball is hitting at maximum power most of the time.
    * The EV spread makes Ferrothorn as physically bulky as possible, with the remaining EVs placed in Attack. Ferrothorn can be more specially defensive with a Sassy nature if checking the likes of Tapu Koko and Tapu Lele is more important than taking physical attacks.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    * Ferrothorn should prioritize setting Stealth Rock up as soon as possible, since its fantastic bulk and typing allows allow it to safely set up against anything that lacks a Fire- (AH) or Fighting-type moves move.
    * Ferrothorn often forces switches due to its great defensive typing, so using Leech Seed in anticipation of a switch is often a safe play.
    * While Stealth Rock punishes most Fire-types, Ferrothorn's presence often invites Fire-types to switch in immediately, (AC) so avoid setting Stealth Rock too soon if you have nothing that can afford to switch into a Fire-type attack afterwards.
    * Despite being able to disrupt many Pokemon with Leech Seed and its high-powered (AH) STAB moves, Ferrothorn should not be relied upon to break through very bulky foes, (AC) as it lacks the offensive presence to overpower them.
    * Many Pokemon that Ferrothorn checks often run coverage specifically for it, such as Fire Punch Mega Kangaskhan and Hidden Power Fire Tapu Koko, so be wary of any potential lures that can threaten Ferrothorn on teams that otherwise look weak to it.

    Team Options
    ========

    * Setup sweepers such as Mega Blaziken, Mega Salamence, and Mega Charizard X benefit greatly from Stealth Rock support to wear down the opposing team and break Focus Sash.
    * Flying-types such as Zapdos and the aforementioned Mega Salamence appreciate Ferrothorn's ability to switch into Rock- and Ice-type moves, while being and in return they're able to switch into Fighting-type moves that threaten Ferrothorn. They also ease Ferrothorn's matchup against Ground-types such as Garchomp and Landorus-T that might overpower it otherwise.
    * Water-types such as Gyarados and Tapu Fini deal with Fire-types that threaten Ferrothorn, while Ferrothorn can handle Electric- and Grass-type moves in return. Pelipper or Politoed can also provide rain support to let Ferrothorn take weaker Fire-type attacks.
    * Tyranitar benefits from Ferrothorn's resistances to Fairy, Water, Grass, and Steel (RC) while faring better against Mega Charizard X and Mega Charizard Y than most Water-types. Sandstorm damage also helps Ferrothorn wear down the opponent opposing team.
    * Ferrothorn struggles with bulky Electric-types such as Zapdos and some Thundurus-T variants, so it appreciates teammates that can handle them such as Landorus-T, Mamoswine, and Toxic Zapdos.
    * Ferrothorn's great defensive typing allows it to fit well as glue on many teams, as it doesn't require much support to fill its role beyond having a teammate that can handle Fire-type moves.

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Gyro Ball
    move 2: Bullet Seed
    move 3: Power Whip
    move 4: Knock Off / Bulldoze
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Iron Barbs
    nature: Brave
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]
    Moves
    ========

    * Gyro Ball is Ferrothorn's strongest and most reliable STAB move, capable of breaking through most fast threats.
    * Bullet Seed gives Ferrothorn a secondary STAB option that breaks through Substitute, which helps it avoid being helpless against all Substitute users despite its low Speed.
    * Power Whip is a more consistently powerful Grass-type STAB than Bullet Seed for situations where the extra power is more desirable, at the cost of accuracy and inability to break through Substitute.
    * Knock Off takes advantage of the switches Ferrothorn often forces, providing utility in removing the foe's item as well as great neutral coverage. It's It also gives Ferrothorn a way to hit Aegislash.
    * Bulldoze gives Ferrothorn a way to punish Fire-types such as Blaziken and Heatran that expect to set up freely on it (RC) while also providing letting it help its teammates through the Speed drops that can help its teammates. (optional)


    Set Details
    ========

    * Choice Band is necessary to give Ferrothorn as much immediate power as possible, in order to surprise foes expecting Ferrothorn to be a support variant.
    * Iron Barbs allows Ferrothorn to punish physical attackers that make contact, which is useful for bringing down foes that Ferrothorn can't reliably OHKO on its own.
    * A Brave nature with a 0 Speed IV maximizes Ferrothorn's Attack while making it as slow as possible for Gyro Ball.
    * The EV spread makes Ferrothorn as powerful as possible while giving it as much overall bulk because Ferrothorn will often be taking damage before attacking.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    * Choice Band Ferrothorn functions best as a lure, since the opponent will most likely assume Ferrothorn is running a defensive set.
    * Ferrothorn's STAB type combination isn't great, so be careful locking into either of its STAB moves if the opposing team has any dangerous setup sweepers that can take advantage of it.
    * Gyro Ball is very powerful even against resisted resistant foes, provided that the foe is fast, so locking into Gyro Ball is often a safe move.
    * If the opposing team has many slow Pokemon or Steel-resistant Pokemon, Power Whip or Bullet Seed are often safer moves to lock into.
    * It's not uncommon for teams to run multiple Z-Crystal users or even multiple Mega Evolutions, so be careful locking into Knock Off if there's a good chance of one of these Pokemon switching in.
    * While Ferrothorn's natural bulk is great, the lack of recovery means that Ferrothorn will be quickly worn down, so avoid switching in Ferrothorn directly if possible.


    Team Options
    ========

    * Ferrothorn appreciates Dragon- and Water-types such as Mega Salamence, Mega Charizard X, (AC) and Tapu Fini that can handle Fire-type moves that threaten it.
    * Flying- and Ghost-types such as Zapdos, Landorus-T, Aegislash, and Mega Gengar can switch into Fighting-type moves that threaten Ferrothorn.
    * Stealth Rock support helps Ferrothorn take advantage of the surprise factor of Ferrothorn doing huge damage to foes, so teammates such as Mamoswine and Hippowdon pair well with it.
    * Ferrothorn appreciates bulky teammates such as the aforementioned Zapdos and Hippowdon that afford to take multiple hits (RC) as well as offer status support and extra residual damage to help Ferrothorn break down foes more easily.
    * Intimidate support from the likes of Gyarados and Salamence helps Ferrothorn switch into physical attacks more comfortably, which is valuable because it will likely take another hit before it gets a chance to attack.


    [STRATEGY COMMENTS]
    Other Options
    =============

    * Toxic gives Ferrothorn a more reliable option than Leech Seed for breaking down bulky foes such as Porygon2, though this is better left to one of Ferrothorn's teammates.
    * Thunder Wave can punish fast foes that might otherwise set up relatively safely against Ferrothorn, though it has poor synergy with Gyro Ball and Ferrothorn has difficulty giving up a moveslot for it.
    * Explosion can be used on the Choice Band set as a last-resort option, though it's difficult to fit onto such a slow Choice Band user.
    * Payback is a more consistently powerful alternative to Knock Off on the Choice Band set that reliably 2HKOs 2HKOes Mega Metagross, though the utility of removing an item usually makes Knock Off the preferred choice.
    * Curse gives Ferrothorn a way to increase its offensive presence while boosting its Defense further, though it's difficult to fit into a set and it doesn't help Ferrothorn against Fire-types.
    * A Sitrus Berry or pinch Berry (just name one of them, pinch Berry is really reserved for Liechi / Salac and friends) can be used to give Ferrothorn more immediate recovery than Leftovers, though Ferrothorn is bulky enough to take better advantage of Leftovers.


    Checks and Counters
    ===================

    **Fire-types and Fire-type Moves**: Fire-types such as Blaziken, Mega Charizard X, Mega Charizard Y, and Heatran all easily OHKO Ferrothorn with their respective Fire-type moves and don't take too much from either of its STAB moves. Ferrothorn's huge Fire-type weakness also leaves it vulnerable to common Fire-type coverage, such as Hidden Power Fire Tapu Lele, Tapu Koko, and Greninja, Fire Fang Garchomp, and Fire Punch Mega Kangaskhan. Physical attackers should still be mindful of Iron Barbs and Rocky Helmet recoil, (AC) though, especially in combination with Flare Blitz recoil.

    **Fighting-types**: Fighting-types such as Mega Lucario, Mega Lopunny, Mega Heracross, and Pheromosa can all threaten Ferrothorn with their respective Fighting-type STAB moves. Mega Lucario and Mega Heracross in particular threaten to set up with Swords Dance, (AC) since they don't mind Gyro Ball too much. However, Mega Lopunny and Pheromosa rely on High Jump Kick to beat Ferrothorn, (AC) so they must be wary of Protect.

    **Physically Bulky Pokemon**: Ferrothorn has trouble breaking through other physically bulky Pokemon that can't easily be worn down through Leech Seed, such as Mega Mawile, Celesteela, and Kartana. While Celesteela doesn't like taking a Leech Seed, it often runs Flamethrower or Substitute to win that matchup. Meanwhile, (AC) Kartana and Mega Mawile can threaten to set up with Swords Dance and break through with Sacred Sword and Knock Off, (AC) respectively.

    **Bulky Electric-types**: Bulky Electric-types such as Zapdos, bulky Thundurus-T, Magnezone, (AC) and Rotom-H all take very little from Ferrothorn's STAB moves, while often running and they often run coverage for Ferrothorn such as Heat Wave and or Focus Blast. Magnezone in particular can potentially trap Ferrothorn and remove it with Hidden Power Fire, and it only fears the uncommon Bulldoze from Choice Band variants.[/quote]
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
    Jhon, Psynergy and Demantoid like this.
  5. Psynergy

    Psynergy Guaranteed Crits
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    Thanks for the check, implemented all of the above! Not freeing HP Fire Ferro though it's outclassed by HP Fire Breloom. :/
  6. CryoGyro

    CryoGyro living the life carefree
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    [OVERVIEW]

    Ferrothorn is one of the most effective Stealth Rock users in the Battle Spot Singles metagame, fitting well onto many teams due to its fantastic defensive typing. Ferrothorn's great bulk in conjunction with its numerous resistances allows it to check a wide range of threats such as Tapu Koko, Tapu Lele, Mimikyu, Garchomp, Mega Metagross, and Mega Kangaskhan. Its Iron Barbs ability, Stealth Rock, (comma) and Leech Seed all combined allow it to effectively wear down teams and function as a strong support for its team. Powerful STAB moves and decent Attack also make Ferrothorn less passive than most defensive Pokemon and allow it to function as an effective Choice Band user. However, Ferrothorn suffers from weaknesses to common Fire- and Fighting-type attacks, and with its low Speed, this makes it very susceptible to unexpected coverage moves such as Hidden Power Fire.

    [SET]
    name: Support
    move 1: Gyro Ball
    move 2: Stealth Rock
    move 3: Leech Seed
    move 4: Protect / Power Whip / Bullet Seed
    item: Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
    ability: Iron Barbs
    nature: Relaxed / Sassy
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]
    Moves
    ========

    * Gyro Ball is Ferrothorn's strongest STAB move, hitting most offensive threats at maximum power due to its Ferrothorn's low Speed.
    * Stealth Rock offers team support in the form of residual damage that breaks Focus Sash and Sturdy while also pressuring Fire-types that threaten Ferrothorn such as Charizard and Volcarona that threaten Ferrothorn.
    * Leech Seed grants Ferrothorn extra recovery while giving it and another way to wear down foes. This also helps it threaten other bulky foes it otherwise can't touch, (comma) such as Porygon2 and Celesteela.
    * Protect allows Ferrothorn to take full advantage of Leftovers and Leech Seed recovery to stay healthy while also allowing it to scout for potential Z-Moves.
    * Power Whip increases Ferrothorn's offensive presence, (comma) giving by being a secondary STAB option that hits most Water- and Ground-types harder than Gyro Ball. It can also be used over Stealth Rock to have both retain the utility that Protect provides and the secondary STAB option at the same time.
    * Bullet Seed gives Ferrothorn a better matchup against Mimikyu and provides a more accurate Grass-type STAB attack than Power Whip, though its damage output is less consistent than Power Whip's.

    Set Details
    ========

    * Leftovers gives Ferrothorn a steady source of recovery, allowing it to reliably stall out foes with with Leech Seed and Protect.
    * Iron Barbs allows Ferrothorn to punish physical attackers that make contact, slowly wearing them down for its team. Rocky Helmet can be used instead of Leftovers to augment this residual damage, (comma) at the cost of reliable recovery.
    * A Relaxed nature with a 0 Speed IVs maximizes Ferrothorn's physical bulk while making it as slow as possible to ensure Gyro Ball is hitting at maximum power most of the time.
    * The EV spread makes Ferrothorn as physically bulky as possible, with the remaining EVs placed in Attack. Ferrothorn can be more specially defensive with a Sassy nature if checking the likes of Tapu Koko and Tapu Lele is more important than taking physical attacks.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    * Ferrothorn should prioritize setting Stealth Rock up as soon as possible, since its fantastic bulk and typing allow it to safely set up against anything that lacks a Fire- or Fighting-type move.
    * Ferrothorn often forces switches due to its great defensive typing, so using Leech Seed in anticipation of a switch is often a safe play.
    * While Stealth Rock punishes most Fire-types, Ferrothorn's presence often invites Fire-types to switch in immediately, so avoid setting Stealth Rock too soon if you have nothing that can afford to switch into a Fire-type attack afterwards.
    * Despite being able to disrupt many Pokemon with its Leech Seed and its high-powered powerful STAB moves, Ferrothorn should not be relied upon to break through very bulky foes, as it lacks the offensive presence to overpower them.
    * Many Pokemon that Ferrothorn typically checks often run coverage specifically for it, such as Fire Punch Mega Kangaskhan and Hidden Power Fire Tapu Koko, so be wary of any such potential lures that can threaten Ferrothorn on when against teams that otherwise look weak to it Ferrothorn.

    Team Options
    ========

    * Setup sweepers such as Mega Blaziken, Mega Salamence, and Mega Charizard X benefit greatly from Stealth Rock support to wearing down the opposing team and breaking Focus Sash.
    * Flying-types such as Zapdos and the aforementioned Mega Salamence appreciate Ferrothorn's ability to switch into Rock- and Ice-type moves, and in return, (comma) they're able to switch into Fighting-type moves that threaten Ferrothorn. They also ease Ferrothorn's matchup against Ground-types that might overpower it otherwise such as Garchomp and Landorus-T that might overpower it otherwise.
    * Water-types such as Gyarados and Tapu Fini deal with Fire-types that threaten Ferrothorn, while Ferrothorn can handle Electric- and Grass-type moves in return. Pelipper or Politoed can also provide rain support to let Ferrothorn take weaker Fire-type attacks.
    * Tyranitar benefits from Ferrothorn's resistances to Fairy, Water, Grass, and Steel while faring better against Mega Charizard X and Mega Charizard Y than most Water-types. Sandstorm damage also helps Ferrothorn wear down the opposing team.
    * Ferrothorn struggles with bulky Electric-types such as Zapdos and some Thundurus-T variants, so it appreciates teammates that can handle them such as Landorus-T, Mamoswine, and Toxic Zapdos.
    * Ferrothorn's great defensive typing allows it to fit well as glue on many teams, as it doesn't require much support to fill its role beyond having a teammate that can handle Fire-type moves.

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Gyro Ball
    move 2: Bullet Seed
    move 3: Power Whip
    move 4: Knock Off / Bulldoze
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Iron Barbs
    nature: Brave
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]
    Moves
    ========

    * Gyro Ball is Ferrothorn's strongest and most reliable STAB move, capable of breaking through most fast threats.
    * Bullet Seed gives Ferrothorn a secondary STAB option that breaks through Substitute, which helps it avoid being helpless against all Substitute users despite its low Speed.
    * Power Whip is a more consistently powerful Grass-type STAB attack than Bullet Seed for situations where the extra power is more desirable, (comma) at the cost of accuracy and inability to break through Substitute.
    * Knock Off takes advantage of the switches Ferrothorn often forces, providing utility in removing the foe's item as well as great neutral coverage. It also gives Ferrothorn a way to hit Aegislash.
    * Bulldoze gives Ferrothorn a way to punish Fire-types such as Blaziken and Heatran that expect to set up freely on it such as Blaziken and Heatran while also letting it help its teammates through the Speed drops.


    Set Details
    ========

    * Choice Band is necessary to give Ferrothorn as much immediate power as possible, (comma) in order to surprise foes expecting Ferrothorn to be a support variant.
    * Iron Barbs allows Ferrothorn to punish physical attackers that make contact, which is useful for bringing wearing down foes that Ferrothorn can't reliably OHKO on its own.
    * A Brave nature with a 0 Speed IVs maximizes Ferrothorn's Attack while making it as slow as possible for Gyro Ball.
    * The EV spread makes Ferrothorn as powerful as possible while giving it as much maximum overall bulk because Ferrothorn will often be taking damage before attacking.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    * Choice Band Ferrothorn functions best as a lure, since the opponent will most likely assume Ferrothorn is running a defensive set.
    * Ferrothorn's STAB type combination isn't great, so be careful when locking into either of its STAB moves if the opposing team has any dangerous setup sweepers that can take advantage of it.
    * Gyro Ball is very powerful even against resistant foes, provided that the foe is fast, so locking into Gyro Ball it is often a safe move.
    * If the opposing team has many slow Pokemon or Steel-resistant Pokemon, Power Whip or and Bullet Seed are often safer moves to lock into.
    * It's not uncommon for teams to run multiple Z-Crystal users or even multiple Mega Evolutions, so be careful about locking into Knock Off if there's a good chance of one of these Pokemon switching in.
    * While Ferrothorn's natural bulk is great, the a lack of recovery means that Ferrothorn will be quickly worn down, so avoid switching in Ferrothorn directly in if possible.


    Team Options
    ========

    * Ferrothorn appreciates Dragon- and Water-types such as Mega Salamence, Mega Charizard X, and Tapu Fini that can handle handling Fire-type moves that threaten it.
    * Flying- and Ghost-types such as Zapdos, Landorus-T, Aegislash, and Mega Gengar can switch into Fighting-type moves that threaten Ferrothorn.
    * Stealth Rock support helps Ferrothorn take advantage of the surprise factor of Ferrothorn doing huge damage to foes, so teammates such as Mamoswine and Hippowdon pair well with it.
    * Ferrothorn appreciates bulky teammates such as the aforementioned Zapdos and Hippowdon that afford being able to take multiple hits as well as offer status support and extra residual damage to help Ferrothorn break down through foes more easily.
    * Intimidate support from the likes of Gyarados and Salamence helps Ferrothorn switch into physical attacks more comfortably, which is valuable because it will likely take another hit before it gets a chance to attack.


    [STRATEGY COMMENTS]
    Other Options
    =============

    * Toxic gives Ferrothorn a more reliable option than Leech Seed for breaking down bulky foes such as Porygon2, though this is better left to one of Ferrothorn's teammates.
    * Thunder Wave can punish fast foes that might otherwise set up relatively safely against Ferrothorn, though it has poor synergy with Gyro Ball and Ferrothorn has difficulty giving up a moveslot for it.
    * Explosion can be used on the Choice Band set as a last-resort option, though it's difficult to fit onto such a slow Choice Band user.
    * Payback is a more consistently powerful alternative to Knock Off on the Choice Band set that reliably 2HKOes Mega Metagross, though the utility of removing an item usually makes Knock Off the preferred choice.
    * Curse gives Ferrothorn a way to increase its offensive presence while boosting its Defense further, though it's difficult to fit into a set and it doesn't help Ferrothorn against Fire-types.
    * A Sitrus Berry or Figy Berry can be used to give Ferrothorn more immediate recovery than Leftovers, though Ferrothorn is bulky enough to take better advantage of Leftovers.


    Checks and Counters
    ===================

    **Fire-types and Fire-type Pokemon and Moves**: Fire-types such as Blaziken, Mega Charizard X, Mega Charizard Y, and Heatran all easily OHKO Ferrothorn with their respective Fire-type moves and don't take too much from either of its STAB moves. Ferrothorn's huge Fire-type weakness also leaves it vulnerable to common Fire-type coverage, (comma) users such as Hidden Power Fire Tapu Lele, Tapu Koko, and Greninja, Fire Fang Garchomp, and Fire Punch Mega Kangaskhan. Physical attackers should still be mindful of Iron Barbs and Rocky Helmet recoil, though, especially in combination with Flare Blitz recoil.

    **Fighting-types**: Fighting-types such as Mega Lucario, Mega Lopunny, Mega Heracross, and Pheromosa can all threaten Ferrothorn with their respective Fighting-type STAB moves. Mega Lucario and Mega Heracross in particular threaten to set up with Swords Dance, since they don't mind Gyro Ball too much. However, Mega Lopunny and Pheromosa rely on High Jump Kick to beat Ferrothorn, so they must be wary of Protect.

    **Physically Bulky Pokemon**: Ferrothorn has trouble breaking through other physically bulky Pokemon that can't easily be worn down through Leech Seed, (comma) such as Mega Mawile, Celesteela, and Kartana. While Celesteela doesn't like taking a Leech Seed, it often runs Flamethrower or Substitute to win that matchup beat Ferrothorn. Meanwhile, Kartana and Mega Mawile can threaten to set up with Swords Dance and break through with Sacred Sword and Knock Off, respectively.

    **Bulky Electric-types**: Bulky Electric-types such as Zapdos, bulky Thundurus-T, Magnezone, and Rotom-H all take very little from Ferrothorn's STAB moves, and they often run coverage for Ferrothorn such as Heat Wave or Focus Blast. Magnezone in particular can potentially trap Ferrothorn and remove it with Hidden Power Fire, and it only fears the uncommon Bulldoze from Choice Band variants.
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
    Psynergy likes this.
  7. Psynergy

    Psynergy Guaranteed Crits
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    Took care of all the above, thanks! Unless someone else has anything to say, Ferrothorn is now done.
  8. Theorymon

    Theorymon I'll be your 1-up girl!
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    Sorry for not getting to this earlier, first 2 weeks of class buried me in an avalanche of homework and I forgot. I'm way ahead now though just so I can fit in Smogon stuff, so this is now uploaded :D

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