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Fidgit Analysis Workshop

Discussion in 'Create-A-Pokémon Project' started by Fishin, Aug 12, 2008.

  1. Fishin

    Fishin
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    [SET]
    Name: Entry hazard support
    Move 1: Stealth Rock
    Move 2: Spikes / Toxic Spikes
    Move 3: Encore
    Move 4: Earth Power
    Item: Leftovers
    ability: Vital Spirit
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>The first of many support options in Fidgit's movepool is the group of all three entry hazard moves. Encore is amazingly helpful in buying turns for setting up, which is why it's most effective on this set where you want to set as many layers of Spikes as possible. It works like this: Firstly, switch Fidgit in on any non-threatening move against a slower opponent. This can be anything from a healing move, a boosting move, a setup move that only works once (like Stealth Rock), a move that will deal insignificant damage, or a status that Fidgit is immune to (which Vital Spirit helps with). Afterwards, predict your opponent's move; if you think they will try to attack, use Encore, and your opponent will be forced into using their ineffective move again for the next 4-8 turns, which earns you one free turn to set up as they switch out. If you predict a switch, just use Stealth Rock or your Spikes move of choice. The great thing about this set compared to other entry hazard users is how many things it can set up against; thanks to Encore, almost any non-offensive move becomes an opportunity to thrown down a layer of Spikes. Even opponents that would normally OHKO, like Garchomp, can be turned into setup bait as long as you're faster and you switch into the right attack. </p>

    [SET]
    Name: Field support
    Move 1: Trick Room / Gravity / Tailwind
    Move 2: U-turn
    Move 3: Wish
    Move 4: Earth Power
    Item: Leftovers
    ability: Persistent
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Fidgit has several qualities that make it an excellent candidate for setting up the field-affecting moves it has access to. Its unique ability, Persistent, is one; another is its solid defensive typing and stats, which allow it to switch into several common Pokémon without much fear, including Heracross, Lucario, and Revenankh. Wish provides further team support, while U-turn provides a way to scout the enemy's switch and deal some damage in the bargain. Earth Power is a solid attacking move, and helps against Swords Dance Lucario. It also has slightly higher power than Earthquake overall with Fidgit's stats factored in.</p>

    <p>Maximum Speed investment might seem counter-productive with Trick Room considering that the effects of Speed are going to be reversed after a single turn, but it actually has several benefits; it allows Fidgit to use any of its other moves before an opponent acts, and since Fidgit can usually survive one attack from many of its slower counters, as well, you can use U-turn after Trick Room to bring in whatever Pokémon is taking advantage of Trick Room completely unscarred. Increasing either of Fidgit's defenses instead is still a viable option, however.</p>

    [SET]
    Name: Spinner
    Move 1: Rapid Spin
    Move 2: Stealth Rock
    Move 3: Wish
    Move 4: Shadow Ball / Earthquake
    Item: Leftovers
    ability: Vital Spirit
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid / Jolly

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Rapid Spin is the only way to clear your side of the field of Stealth Rock, which heavily cripples any Pokémon weak to it. The number of Rapid Spin users is quite limited, however, so it's a very useful option whenever it's available, and Fidgit has the added bonus of a Rock resistance, causing it to take less damage than most other candidates for the job would. Stealth Rock and Wish give Fidgit something to do when there isn't anything to spin away, though most other support moves can fit effectively into either slot as well. The attacking move in the last slot depends on what Ghost-type you're most worried about; Earthquake is best against Spiritomb, who is neutral to Ghost and usually invests in Special Defense, but Shadow Ball works better against everything else.</p>

    [SET]
    Name: Encore Supporter
    Move 1: Encore
    Move 2: Wish
    Move 3: Earth Power
    Move 4: U-turn / Sludge Bomb / Hidden Power Ice
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Vital Spirit
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>This set plays very similarly to Togekiss's Encore Supporter set. Simply switch into a support or set up move and Encore it. Just don't try to Encore Dragon Dance, since all Dragon Dancers save Adamant Tyranitar will outspeed you after one Dance and can switch to a different move. Once you use Encore, Wish on the switch. Then, U-turn out to a counter. If you feel you don't need U-turn, use Sludge Bomb instead for STAB, or Hidden Power Ice for coverage.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Double Screen
    Move 1: Reflect
    Move 2: Light Screen
    Move 3: Taunt
    Move 4: Stealth Rock
    Item: Light Clay
    Ability: Vital Spirit
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>This takes the place of the dual screen Deoxys-S. This set works great at any point in the game. As a lead, Taunt shuts down many common Stealth Rock layers, and after that, you're free to do what you want. Reflect and Light Screen effectively double your defenses, which ensures that as long as you get the first screen up before taking an attack, almost nothing will be able to OHKO Fidgit. This gives great support to Baton Passers, or stat-up pokemon. Stealth Rock is there if you have time to set it up. Do beware of faster Taunt-using Pokémon such as Azelf, Aerodactyl, and Deoxys-S, however.</p>

    [SET]
    Name: Finicky Fidgit
    Move 1: Earth Power
    Move 2: Sludge Bomb
    Move 3: Shadow Ball
    Move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Electric
    Item: Choice Specs
    Ability: Vital Spirit
    Evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>What Fidgit lacks in firepower, it makes up with its solid defenses and good Speed. This is one of the sturdier Choice users you will find. Earth Power and Sludge Bomb are for STAB, while Shadow Ball is for Ghosts you may encounter, and Hidden Power Ice is for the Dragons who would normally wall you. If you want to suprise enemy Gyarados who think they can set up on you, use Hidden Power Electric, but if it doesn't KO, get out of there fast. </p>

    <p>There aren't many other options for this set, but the most notable is Energy Ball, who would hit Swampert hard. Using a support move in one slot is also a workable option; it can lull the opponent into thinking that this is a regular Fidgit, and gives Fidgit something useful to do in the event that the opponent has something that walls this set entirely, like Blissey. Likewise, U-turn can be used in order to find out what the opponent's Fidgit counter is, so you can get Fidgit away safely and hit the counter hard next time it switches in. Its also possible to go Modest and equip a Choice Scarf to outspeed most of the metagame, up to but not including Modest ScarfGar.</p>


    [Other Options]

    <p>Fidgit has several support moves that aren't listed on any of the main sets. Knock Off is a useful support move that doesn't really have a place on any specific set. Whirlwind works if you're looking for a phazer, though many stat-boosting opponents will be able to hit Fidgit Super Effectively. Protect can be combined with Wish to essentially form a reliable healing move, stall for Leftovers recovery, and scout an opponent's move, though a smart enemy can take advantage of the extra turn by switching or using a non-offensive move. Block stops an opponent from switching, which can work if you're trying to stall.</p>

    <p>Attacking is far from Fidgit's strong suit, but it does have a few other offensive options that can help against specific threats. Sludge Bomb is useful against Grass-types and (assuming Vital Spirit) makes Fidgit into one of the best Breloom switch-ins available. Stone Edge/Rock Slide and Energy Ball are useful against Flying and Water-types, who can usually switch in without much fear. Pursuit and Sucker Punch can surprise opponents, but Fidgit's Attack is too low to use them very effectively.</p>

    <p>None of the options for the above movesets are set in stone; they're merely a sampling of what combinations of moves might prove effective. Fidgit's support movepool is so huge that at least five different moves could be viable options on a support slot in any given set. Feel free to mix and match Fidgit's movepool to suit your team's needs best, as that's the way it'll be the most helpful to your strategy as a whole.</p>

    [EVs]

    <p>Maximum Speed and HP investment with a Speed-boosting nature give Fidgit the best chance to use its support moves and come out alive. Tying against opposing Fidgit is useful, but if it's not important to you, 232 Speed EVs will put Fidgit one point above Jolly Garchomp, which is the lowest you should consider going if Fidgit is going to be investing heavily in Speed. If defenses are more important, 252 HP / 216 SpD / 40 Spe with a Speed-boosting nature provides near-equal defensive stats and 281 Speed, just enough to beat Adamant Lucario, Timid/Hasty Heatran, and any Pokémon sitting just above.</p>

    [Opinion]

    <p>Pure Utility. That's the idea behind Fidgit, and that's exactly what it brings to the table; no other Pokémon can learn Stealth Rock, both types of Spikes, both screens, Gravity, Tailwind, Trick Room, Encore, and a plethora of other support moves, and very few can use the support moves they've been given as effectively. At the same time, it doesn't have much in the way of offense and lacks a regular healing move (though Wish + Protect can fill that void to an extent), but those flaws are very easily overlooked once the amount of support Fidgit can provide becomes apparent.</p>

    [Counters]
    <p>There's no way to dispel Trick Room (aside from using Trick Room again), Tailwind, or Gravity once they're active, and Fidgit will be switching out most of the time to let a different Pokémon take advantage of the field effects, so countering the field support set is more a matter of countering whatever the opponent switches to rather than Fidgit itself. As for the other sets, there are several Pokémon who can come in without much direct risk and pose a threat. It's important to note that in Fidgit's case, "pose a threat" is far more of a quality to look for in a counter than "switch in without risk", since most of what Fidgit is doing won't involve attacking directly. Gengar is faster than Fidgit, resistant or immune to both STAB attacks, and while it does learn Taunt, it can easily 2HKO with Hidden Power Ice, or simply put non-Vital Spirit variants to Sleep with Hypnosis. Neither Azelf nor Syclant resist Poison, but both of them can switch in on a Ground attack and OHKO with STAB Psychic and Ice Beam, respectively. Dugtrio can't switch in completely safely, but can come in on any setup attack and OHKO with Earthquake. Bronzong inflicts solid damage with Earthquake and laughs off anything Fidgit might try to do in return (and has the additional advantage of moving before nearly anything else in Trick Room), though it loses its invulnerability to Ground if Fidgit uses Gravity.</p>

    <p>Bulky Water-types can generally switch into Fidgit without much fear. Starmie is probably the best choice; it's faster than Fidgit, hits Super Effective with both STAB attacks, and can use Rapid Spin to clear any Spikes or Toxic Spikes. Gyarados is also a good option since it's immune to Ground, neutral to Poison, and can Taunt any setup attacks (though it has to watch out for Fidgit's Taunt) or use Waterfall for heavy damage. Other solid choices include Suicune, Milotic, and Swampert.</p>
  2. Jenigmat

    Jenigmat

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    If the opponent can KO you, you won't get Trick Room up. It has -7 priority, lower than anything else in the game.
  3. Fishin

    Fishin
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    Good catch, thanks.
  4. Gothic Togekiss

    Gothic Togekiss
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    Repost from previous thread.

  5. X-Trader

    X-Trader

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    You know this thing can actually be a Bulky Sweeper. Doesn't really deserve a set, but something along the lines of 46 HP / 212 SpA / 252 Speed, with Earth Power, Shadow Ball / Sludge Bomb, Light Screen, Wish would be a neat starter or something like that. I'm trying to think of a set you've missed, but you have pretty much all the viable ones.

    EDIT: Found one, this thing can actually be useful as a starter. I recommend this set:

    Name: Anti-Lead / Starter
    Move 1: Taunt
    Move 2: Stealth Rock
    Move 3: Wish
    Move 4: U-turn / Light Screen
    Item: Leftovers
    ability: Vital Spirit
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly
  6. billymills

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    i'm not sure i understand the reason for maxing speed on the tailwind set. You're going to outspeed after that turn anyway, I'd suggest either 330,(modest 115s and spe+ 100s) or 320(modest 110s and spe+ 95s)
  7. Jenigmat

    Jenigmat

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    Changes in bold, there weren't that many. My two cents.
  8. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
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    As GT pointed out, on all the sets with a neutral nature and no atk EVs, [Timid] Earth Power will outdamage [Jolly] Earthquake. Not that it matters on pokemon like Lucario anyhow.
  9. Sunday

    Sunday God Bless Nintys Incompetence :*)
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    Outdamage, perhaps, but I want to know how it does on average against everything that's weak to it...
  10. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    Well if you want a sweeping set you could go with

    Gravity
    Earthpower
    Sludge Bomb
    Wish
    Leftovers
    Persistant
    4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid

    Poison and Ground after Gravity is only resisted by Nincada and Shedinja.

    Are we going to make a Choice Specs set? It could surprise some of its counters.

    On the Spinner set, you could give it Encore to Encore Pain Split from Dusknoir or Spiritomb who will try to block Rapid Spin. Also Timid should always be used and switch Earthquake with Earthpower.
  11. Gothic Togekiss

    Gothic Togekiss
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    ^ Well if we considered every Pokemon within OU that's weak to it regardless of ability then we have. Now

    Code:
    Bronzong, Supporter set
    Earthquake: 44.97% - 53.25%
    Earth Power: 37.87% - 44.97%
    
    Electivire, It's Super Effective set
    Earthquake: 80.82% - 96.58%
    Earth Power: 69.86% - 82.88%
    
    Heatran, Spectran set
    Earthquake: 100.9% - 120.12%
    Earth Power: 105.71% - 126.13%
    
    Infernape, Mixape set
    Earthquake: 77.82% - 92.15%
    Earth Power: 90.1% - 106.48%
    
    Jirachi Wish&U-turn set
    Earthquake: 36.41% - 43.39%
    Earth Power: 44.89% - 52.87%
    
    Jolteon, Sub Passer set
    Earthquake: 95.59% - 113.24%
    Earth Power: 68.38% - 81.62%
    
    Lucario, SDLuke set
    Earthquake: 81.56% - 96.45%
    Earth Power: 83.69% - 100%
    
    Magnzone, Steel Killer set
    Earthquake: 93.83% - 112.35%
    Earth Power: 119.75% - 141.98%
    
    Metagross, CB-Gross set
    Earthquake: 36.81% - 44.51%
    Earth Power: 53.3% - 63.19%
    
    Skarmory, Physical Wall set
    Earthquake: 31.14% - 37.72%
    Earth Power: 79.64% - 94.01%
    
    Tentacruel, Support Set
    Earthquake: 69.89% - 82.39%
    Earth Power: 34.09% - 40.91%
    
    Tyantiar, Choice Band Set
    Earthquake: 39.11% - 46.53%
    Earth Power: 28.71% - 34.65% (In the sand), 43.56% - 51.98% (without sand)
    
    Zapdos, Defensive Roost Set
    Earthquake: 37.5% - 44.27%
    Earth Power: 50.52% - 59.9%
    
    All damage calculation are done with two things in mind
    1. No EVs within Atk or SpA on Fidgit
    2. I used the first set I saw within each of the defening Pokemon's analysis.
  12. Kira

    Kira

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    Actually it has -6 priority not -7. Though that hardly matters. If you are going for Trick Room then invest the Ev's into defense.

    Oh and since I am posting in here anyway. How do I get the CAP Pokemon sprites to show up on shoddy?
  13. Hyra

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    Agreeing. And isn't high Physical Defense more common than high Special Defense (simply because Blissey is that good at the Special side). At least for the Gravity set, Earth Power should be a main option, because it kills Skarmory instead of being a 4HKO.

    Also, recommending making each of the Support moves its own set.

    Example:

    Gravity
    Toxic Spikes
    Earth Power
    Encore/Wish

    for a Gravity set, so that Toxic Spikes hits people like Cresselia.

    and such for each one. It also allows you to explain how each move works much better.
  14. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    Did some damage calculations against OU spinners.

    Code:
    Donphan
    Earthquake: 14.8% - 17.4%
    Earthpower: 35.4% - 41.7%
     
    Forretress
    Earthquake: 15.8% - 18.6%
    Earthpower: 38.4% - 45.2%
     
    Starmie
    Earthquake: 33.2% - 39.2%
    Earthpower: 34.6% - 40.5%
     
    Tentacreul
    Earthquake: 70.4% - 82.7%
    Earthpower: 35.2% - 41.5%
     
    Fidgit
    Earthquake: 41.6% - 49.0%
    Earthpower: 55.3% - 65.0%
    0 Atk/SpAtk on standard sets
    I'll do damage calculations on Rapin Spin blockers next.

    Edit: Here they are

    Code:
    Dusknoir
    Earthquake: 17.7% - 20.7%
    Earthpower: 24.1% - 28.1%
     
    Spiritomb
    Earthquake: 27.0% - 31.9%
    Earthpower: 23.0% - 27.3%
     
    Revenankh
    Earthquake: 21.9% - 25.8%
    Earthpower: 17.7% - 20.8%
    Neither do much damage to any of them.
  15. latinoheat

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    Gunk shot is just as accurate under gravity so is probably a better option.
  16. Venom

    Venom red eyes no visine
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    Fidgit has alot of potential to be a great Taunter, I gotta run right now, but I'll fix this up tomorrow, credits to matty for helping me with the set lol

    Fidgit @ Leftovers
    Ability: Vital Spirit
    EVs: 168 HP / 88 Def / 252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly
    - Taunt
    - Toxic Spikes / Stealth Rock
    - Wish
    - Earthquake
  17. X-Trader

    X-Trader

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    Wow, I thought I kinda just said that. Me and Venom can make it even better lol.
  18. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    Forgot about that. A physical set would have more overall power, but the possible SpDef drop of Earthpower could be useful. It would really depend on which one would benefit your team more.
  19. OvaRoa

    OvaRoa

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    I can't see that being an anti-lead considering the amount of leads holding taunt that will outspeed it.

    Even roserarde can leaf storm it after taunted, which will hurt.
  20. Venom

    Venom red eyes no visine
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    I didn't notice your post lol, my bad.
  21. omgthatkid

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    Do we really need to be maxing speed?
    I'd just go for out-speeding Garchomp.
    The only Pokemon that this Pokemon has a chance of tying with/out-speeding are Rapidash, Manectric, Mismagius, and Scyther. All of those listed are BL or UU.
    In the 120 base speed tier, there are only 4 Pokemon who rarely use neutral natures.
    Just give that a thought, I guess.
  22. Fishin

    Fishin
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    You also want to tie with other Fidgit, otherwise you're vulnerable to being Encore/Taunted, and Fidgit will also do a decent amount of damage to each other with Earth Power/quake, so tying is important.

    So you can use other moves besides Tailwind at full speed (and get Tailwind up at full speed).

    Erm, we'd have 10+ sets, then. Having several different "base" sets with moves/abilities that work well together (Vital Spirit is better with Encore since it lets you Encore sleep moves, U-Turn is good on a set that's using Trick Room so you can scout an opponent's switch and bring in your best answer to it) and a general "the support moves on these sets are interchangable" attitude seems like the best way to have an analysis that's both concise and informative.

    I'm really doubtful that a sweeping set would be very effective; it has no stat boosting moves, so best it could do is just max an attacking stat and use LO, which won't even be enough to OHKO it's counters, let alone have a prayer at an actual sweep. A sweeping set with Gravity is sort of a neat idea, but it becomes instantly obvious what you're doing so an opponent won't switch Bronzong or Skarmory in.

    A lead set was one I considered, but as a SR setup Pokemon it will lose to pretty much all of the common SR/Suicide leads (except maybe Infernape, who's still faster), and most leads are capable of at least hitting it SE. Taking a look at how it fares against the top 10 leads of July:



    Bronzong: Fidgit can Taunt Bronzong's SR, but will take a decent amount of damage from EQ/Gyro Ball. Pretty neutral matchup, Fidgit can set up SR and prevent the opponent from doing so but it'll take a fair amount of damage in the process.

    Gengar: Gengar is faster, resistant to most moves, and LOGar most likely 2HKOs with Shadow Ball (I'd have to check the calculations again to be completely sure). Fidgit loses.

    Azelf: Fidgit is outsped and OHKOed by Psychic. Fidgit loses.

    Gyarados: Pretty similar to Bronzong, Fidgit can't do anything but set up SR but it'll take heavy damage at the same time.

    Tyranitar: Depends completely on what set Tyranitar is running, there are a lot that can potentially lead. Choice Band/Scarf sets will inflict pretty heavy damage with EQ/IB, but the Lead Tar set loses.

    Ninjask: Fidgit is bulky enough to shrug off anything Ninjask does and can Taunt an attempt to BP. Fidgit wins.

    Yanmega: Pretty good matchup. I don't think Air Slash or HP Ice will 2HKO, so Fidgit can probably set up SR without taking too much damage provided it isn't flinched.

    Aerodactyl: Taunt completely shuts Fidgit down, and Aero is free to set up its own SR. Fidgit loses.

    Salamence: Depends on the set. Specsmence inflicts huge damage with Hydro Pump, DD sets do a solid amount with Earthquake.

    Crobat: Taunt shuts Fidgit down completely, again. If Crobat isn't carrying Taunt, Fidgit can set up without trouble, but most Crobat leads do carry Taunt.


    Most of these matchups Fidgit is either losing or risking heavy damage to set up Stealth Rock, which other leads like Azelf can accomplish; difference is, things like Azelf not only faster but are likely to inflict a fair amount of damage before going down, whereas Fidgit usually will not.
  23. Hyra

    Hyra
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    About for each Support move, I just meant Tailwind, Trick Room, and Gravity. Just because each one of those has an entirely different effect and is better backed by different other moves. To me, saying that Tailwind, Trick Room, and Gravity are all options on one set says they function similarly, which isn't true.

    I also believe that the Rapid Spin and Spiker sets could be one, just because do you really need to lay two different sets of Spikes with one Pokemon? Something like Spiking Move/Rapid Spin/Encore/Wish or Attacking move would work equally well. Just a sentence in the Set Comments saying you can drop Rapid Spin if you don't need it for your team should be enough.
  24. omgthatkid

    omgthatkid

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    Hmm, I think I have to agree that they should be left on one set to abuse Persistent.
    Instead of having the title be "Field Support" I think it would be much more appropriately named "Persistent." Then, in the comments, you could talk about how one would go about abusing Persistent with this particular moveset.
  25. ParadOxymoron

    ParadOxymoron

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    I feel like the moves in the first move slot of the Persistent moveset should go Gravity / Tailwind / Trick Room, because that's how they'd be ordered from least novel to most off the wall.

    Also, as many people have said, Earth Power > Earthquake. I don't see why anyone would ever seriously consider using Earthquake over Earth Power on something with a higher special attack; note Gothic Togekiss's post regarding the damage calculations.

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