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Fight by Moonlight [2nd OU RMT]

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by Joe_Crow, Jun 15, 2010.

  1. Joe_Crow


    May 28, 2010
    This is my second OU team, slightly changed from the first one. The name is derived from my favourite Pokemon, Umbreon. I want to use this on Wi-Fi. Changes I want to make are stated throughout. Any help would be greatly appreciated :) Thank you.

    At a glance


    Swampert [​IMG]

    Swampert @ Leftovers
    ~ Relaxed
    Evs: 252 HP, 198 Def, 60 SAtk
    - Surf/Roar
    - Ice Beam/Avalanche
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock

    Why is it in the team?
    Swampert is my trusty lead here to lay down stealth rock. With surf, ice beam and EQ countering many common leads such as TTar, Metagross, Infernape, Aerodactyl and Heatran. The 60SAtk EVs give Ice Beam and enough power to OHKO Salamance/Dragonite and boosts surf. Earthquake is for STAB and type coverage.

    Is there room for change?
    I'm pretty certain I wanna keep him as is. He goes well with the rest of my team and has never really failed me. I’ve been recommended to change surf to roar for phasing but it hasn’t helped me much. If I did I would consider getting rid of the SAtk EVs and switching ice beam to avalanche. What do you think?

    Metagross [​IMG]

    Metagross @ Leftovers
    ~ Adamant
    Evs: 252 Atk, 112 HP, 132 Speed, 13 Def
    - Meteor Mash
    - Earthquake
    - Agility
    - Ice Punch/Thunder Punch/Explosion

    Why is it in the team?
    My physical sweeper. After an agility this thing can outrun almost anything. He works well for switching into attacks aimed at Zapdos and Swampert.

    Is there room for change?
    Not much. I can usually sweep a couple per match with Metagross and he works well with the rest of my team. The moves need thought.

    Umbreon [​IMG]

    Umbreon @ Leftovers
    ~ Impish
    Evs: 252 HP, 50 Def, 208 SDef
    - Payback
    - Toxic
    - Wish
    - Protect

    Why is it in the team?
    Because he’s so awesome and the central point of my team. My special wall. He’s got a typical toxi-stalling set – Toxic, Wish, Protect, Wish, Protect etc. and is great for taking down bulky non steels. Payback usually hits second and is helpful for taking down Azelf, Celebi which threaten Swampert. Wish support is helpful too when he needs switching out.

    Scizor and Lucario switch-ins were a big problem. Switching into Zapdos was my solution.

    Is there room for change?
    No. I have already bred and trained him and he’s helped me too much to change it now. If he’s not working right I’ll change another part of the team but at the moment there are no problems with him.

    Gengar [​IMG]

    Gengar @ Black Sludge/Life Orb
    ~ Modest
    Evs: 252 SAtk, 252 Speed, 4 HP
    - Shadow Ball
    - Psychic
    - Focus Blast
    - Energy Ball

    Why is it in the team?
    My revenge killer and special sweeper. Shadow ball protects against Gengar’s psychic weakness and is generally a good STAB move. Psychic is there to let Gengar switch into Machamp, Infernape and other fighting types easily, which are a real threat to Umbreon. This is the only counter I have for Infernape at the moment and Infernape is a real problem otherwise.

    If you’re thinking “energy ball wtf?” I kind of need that as a Swampert counter at the moment. Also, if I switch him in against a Swampert no-one ever expects it and they don’t switch out. This goes the same for Psychic.

    Is there room for change?
    Perhaps. I’m not sure whether to have life orb or black sludge. I’ve been messing around with the moveset for a while now. Psychic has to stay really unless I can make another Infernape counter. The last two moveslots are up for debate.

    Dragonite [​IMG]

    Dragonite @ Leftovers/Lum Berry
    ~ Rash
    Evs: 112 Atk, 246 Speed, 196 HP
    - Roost
    - Outrage
    - Flamethrower
    - Superpower

    Why is it in the team?
    My mixed sweeper/wall breaker. Usually for late game use after the enemy is weakened. Flamethrower is needed for type coverage and taking out grasses for Swampert. Superpower is my only efficient Blissey counter and Roost/Lefties are too keep it fighting.

    Is there room for change?
    Definitely. I needed a wall breaker and a Blissey counter. I originally had DDNite but it wasn’t doing the job. Dragonite shares the rock and ice weakness with Zapdos but Zapdos is needed more than Dragonite. Any suggestions who to replace Dragonite with? (I don’t wanna hear Salamence.) I was thinking Lucario maybe but then I have another weak against Infernape…

    Zapdos [​IMG]

    Zapdos @ Life Orb
    ~ Timid
    Evs: 252 SAtk, 176 Speed, 80 HP
    - Thunderbolt
    - Heat Wave
    - U-Turn/Substitute
    - Roost

    Why is it in the team?
    Special sweeper. For type coverage and a Lucario/Scizor/Skarm counter. Umbreon was having difficulties with the first two and Zapdos can switch in and Heat Wave them.

    Is there room for change?
    Could be. Since I’ve added him he’s been doing a good job though. Evs and moveset might need rethinking and. I don’t have access to HP grass/ice unfortunately so I need a replacement.

    Biggest Threats:


    – If I’m replacing Dragonite I can only rely on Metagross to dent it.

    - Umbreon's payback and Gengar's psychic if he can get in there first.

    – Only Swampert counters really.

    - No counters at the moment

    – Swampert can take him down with ease. Once he's down I have problems...

    - A HUGE problem. Swampert is OHKOd by grass knot, Metagross is destroyed with fire STABs and Umbreon doesn't like close combat. Zapdos and Dragonite are weak against rock slide etc. The only counter I have is Gengar which is the reason it's running psychic. This needs some thought.

    - A problem here...

    - Umbreon?

    - Priority moves are a problem.

    - I have a lot of ground weakness in my team. Gengar’s energy ball is my only salvation as I can’t get HP grass on Zapdos.

    - Swampert is my only help here

    - Swampert and Metagross are weak to HP grass and heat wave. If I give ice punch to Meta and he’s set up with agility I can counter it.


    And there's the team. Let me know what you think, and what I could replace Dragonite with :)
  2. Karpi


    Sep 9, 2007
    Since i dont play the cartridge games, i dont know how time consuming it is to change your EV spread... but if its not a huge hassle then i happen to know a zapdos set that works very well, its called SubRoost Zapdos

    176 Speed EVs lets your Timid Zapdos outspeed all lucario
    Then you want to put the extra 76 EV points in HP for a little more bulk.

    -Heat Wave

    Using a bulkier Zapdos can help tremendously with your gyarados problem as well
    Someone else might have a better EV spread...
  3. BIG loven

    BIG loven Not so little anymore

    Jun 21, 2009
    I can't just sit here and do nothing for that zapdos set. I recommend changing it to the subroost set, it goes so much harder. It's a step into the defensive area.

    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    ~ Timid
    Evs: 248 HP / 184 SpD / 76 Spe
    - Thunderbolt
    - Toxic
    - Substitute
    - Roost
  4. danmantincan


    Apr 7, 2010
    Hey I got your VM.

    Since it seems that Umbreon is the core of your team, I would recommend someone that can set up Toxic Spikes, as well as remove them. I think you might want to replace Gengar with Tentacruel. It is not a very common Pokemon but it can help greatly with your Infernape problem, resisting both STABs, HP Ice, and Grass Knot only has 80 BP against its great 120 base Special Defense while hitting back with STAB Surf.

    If you swap Gengar for Tentacruel, you will need a revenge killer. I think CB Scizor with Bullet Punch/U-Turn/Quick Attack/Super Power instead of Agiligross might be the best choice for your team. Scizor is able to hit first without the need to set up, Quick Attack is mostly to revenge Gyarados (since Offensive Gyarados can outspeed and O/2HKO your entire team after a Dragon Dance) but also allows Scizor to hit Zapdos hard. Scizor will also benefit from Tentacruel removing any entry hazards your opponent sets up.

    Since your Zapdos can't have HP Ice or Grass, I think the SubRoost set with Substitute/Roost/Thunderbolt/Toxic will work well on your team. With Toxic Spikes, ground types that are immune to your Thunderbolt (except Gliscor and Flygon) can easily be worn down with Substitute and Roost. Thunderbolt hits fliers that are unaffected by Toxic Spikes. Toxic will let you poison the previously mentioned Flygon and Gliscor, but you can choose Roar if you are worried about something setting up on you.

    If you don't really like Dragonite (and don't want to use Salamence) as your wall breaker, I think that a mixed Infernape could work in it's spot, though I personally believe that mixed Salamence would be the best replacement since you aren't using Extremespeed on Dragonite, and you would lose a valuable ground immunity if you choose Infernape.

    Lastly, with Toxic Spikes, Toxic is no longer needed on Umbreon. Yawn and Curse are the two best replacements that I can think of. Yawn will cause switches, which works great with entry hazards, and Curse will boost Umbreon's defense and attack, while basically guaranteeing that Payback will have 100 Base Power.

    Hope that helped. Good Luck.
  5. Joe_Crow


    May 28, 2010
    Thanks for the help. I've changed Zapdos to a bulkier sub set, although I better keep heat wave in there as that's why I needed it.
    I'll consider using Salamence for that slot then. Or would extremeSpeed Nite be better?
    What do you think about the Swampert moveset?
    Would Starmie be any use in Gengars place? I have no rapid spinner and that would still help with the Nape problem.

  6. danmantincan


    Apr 7, 2010
    For Swampert, I would go with Roar over Surf, and Ice Beam over Avalanche. Roar will prevent Gyarados from setting up on Swampert and Ice Beam doesn't have to worry about Intimidate from Gyarados/Salamence lowering your attack stat.
  7. Joe_Crow


    May 28, 2010
    Thanks a lot for the help. I'm worried however i'm gonna end up with barely any attacking power on some walls. If i replace Gengar and make zapdos defensive.

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