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Fight Fire with Fire

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by DoomTrain, Mar 25, 2013.

  1. DoomTrain

    DoomTrain

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    Messages:
    22

    FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE

    [youtube]ZnCFWlso-UQ[/youtube]



    Hey what's up guys, here's DoomTrain with another RMT.
    Just to let you know, Sun is my favourite weather and playstyle 'cause it can be very skill intensive but if played well can rip each other team apart.
    That's why, after my Solar Flare RMT two weeks ago, today I'm going to show you another Drought team.
    Furthermore, I'm a big Metallica fan and thus I decided to name this RMT and each pokemon in the team after Metallica's songs that suit best in my opinion.
    These songs are taken from the first 5 Metallica's albums: Kill 'em All, Ride the Lightning, ...And Justice for All, Master of Puppets and Black Album.


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    Teambuilding Process
    Show Hide


    Ok, I wanted to make a Drought team so Ninetales is obviously the first member of the team.

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    In every Sun team I always want at least one Chlorophyll user, once again I chose Venusaur.

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    Now, as a Sun team, I needed a good control on entry hazard. That's why I chose a core formed by Xatu and Forretress, the former prevents hazards user to set up rocks and spikes and the latter can spin away them if Xatu wasn't able to prevent them. Furthermore, I added Dugtrio to this core to ensure it safe switch-ins against stuff like Heatran and Tyranitar thanks to Forretress' Volt Switch and Xatu's U-turn.

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    Next, I needed a strong and fast revenge killer. My choice landed on Scarf Kyurem-B.

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    After some games, I felt that Kyurem didn't fit so well in the team, it had raw power but wasn't fast enough for me. That's why I decided to replace him with Salamence and I never looked back.

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    JumpInTheFire (Ninetales) (F) @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 248 HP / 120 Def / 96 SDef / 44 Spd
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    [​IMG] Flamethrower
    [​IMG] Sunny Day
    [​IMG] Will-O-Wisp
    [​IMG] Roar

    Ah, here it is, the bringer of light and one of my favourite pokemons: Ninetales. As you all now, BW has blessed the white fox with one of the most gamebreaking abilites available: Drought. Unfortunately, Ninetales is the worst weather inducer in the game, having a bad match-up against each other one (bar Abomasnow), so why would people choose the fox over Politoed or Tyranitar or Hippowdon?
    Well, permanent sun weakens Water-type moves and boosts Fire-type attacks, making this a good answer to the strong Water-type attacks that plague OU and, most importantly, activates Chlorophyll ability turning most Grass-types pokemon into speedy and deadly sweepers. Since all other weather inducers are weak to Grass-type moves (again, bar Abomasnow), Drought teams will always have (at least) one valuable member that can pick them off quite easily.

    The EVs: 44 Spd EVs allow Ninetales to reach 247 Spd, enabling it to outspeed those defensive pokemon sitting on 245 like Gliscor, Jirachi and most Tentacruels. 120 Def EVs enable Ninetales to survive an Eartquake from Focus Sash Dugtrio, 248 Hp EVs maximize Ninetales' overall bulk and 96 SDef EVs with a positive nature allow the fox to switch into most special attacks.

    The Moveset: Flamethrower is, of course, the STAB attack of choice, having decent power in the sun. I preferred it over the more powerful Fire Blast because of its higher PP and perfect accuracy. Sunny Day is pretty mandatory on Ninetales' defensive sets as it can nullify the switch-in of an opponent weather inducer and giving instant momentum advantage. Will-O-Wisp can cripple physical attackers making them nearly useless, and finally Roar for those pesky Volcaronas that like so much setting up on Ninetales.

    Possible changes: Move all Def EVs to SDef for maximum special bulkyness.

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    HarvesterOfSorrow (Venusaur) (M) @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 80 HP / 252 SAtk / 176 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
    [​IMG] Growth
    [​IMG] Giga Drain
    [​IMG] Hidden Power
    [​IMG] Sludge Bomb

    Venusaur is one of those pokemon that received some tremendous boosts between the transition from DPP and BW and from the latter to BW2.
    BW gave it access to Chlorophyll through the Dream World, making this giant frog with a flower on its back a real threat in the sun. But the gifts it
    received don't stop here. Growth too had a boost becoming, under the sun, a Swords Dance and Nasty Plot paired together and thus one of the best, if not the best, set up move for sun abusers.
    Furthermore, Giga Drain received a power and PP boost however in BW the Chlorophyll+Giga Drain combination was illegal. BW2 fixed this, giving Venusar a less powerful but more reliable STAB move than Solar Beam or Energy Ball and providing a way of recovering all in one. Thanks to its new toys and major boons Venusaur is easily a force to be reckoned with in OU.

    The EVs: 176 Spd EVs along with a Timid Nature enable Venusaur to outspeed Scarfed Base 110 and below, like common Terrakion, Keldeo and Latios in the sun. 252 SAtk EVs in tandem with Life Orb give Venusaur excellent offensive power and the leftovers 80 were put in HP for better overall bulkyness.

    The Moveset: As I said earlier, Growth is one of the best set up moves for sun abusers, sharply boosting Venusaur's Special Attack for the final sweep. Giga Drain is the Grass-type STAB move of choice, hitting some common pokes like Politoed, Rotom-W, Keldeo, Hippowdon, Tyranitar etc. for supereffective damage and is also a way of recovering Life Orb recoil. Sludge Bomb is Venusaur's strongest STAB move in this set, however it's the least used as it has poor coverage.
    Hidden Power [Ice] is my Hidden Power of choice mainly used to revenge kill Dragons and both Landorus' formes who otherwise can be really troublesome for me. I know this moveset is walled by Steel-types but the rest of the team can deal with them quite easily so it's not really a big issue.

    Possile changes: HP [Fire] over HP [Ice] or run a mixed EVs spread with Earthquake over Sludge Bomb.

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    DontTreadOnMe (Forretress) (F) @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    [​IMG] Volt Switch
    [​IMG] Spikes
    [​IMG] Rapid Spin
    [​IMG] Gyro Ball

    Forretress is my go-to guy for physical sweepers and first part of my "VoltTurn hazard-control core" along with Xatu. All it has to do is spin, spin,
    spin. Set up one or two layer of Spikes comes in handy to weaken the opponent team enough to open up a sweep. Furthermore, Forretress can sponge an attack aimed to it and then Volt Switch out, granting a free switch to one of its teammates. Despite its lack of offensive presence and reliable recovery outside of Leftovers and Rest, Forretress is still a valuable member of my team that can block most physical attackers on their tracks and can support its teammates very well.

    The EVs: 80 SDef EVs are for tanking some weaker special attacks without many issues, 252 HP EVs maximize Forretress' overall bulkyness and 176 Def Evs along with a Relaxed Nature are for the best physical defense. However I might change this spread to a 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef, since even with some EVs investment Forretress' SDef is still luckluster.

    The Moveset: Spikes and Rapid Spin are pretty self-explanatory: the former lets me set up hazards on the opponent field, in order to weaken opposite teams, facilitating an attempt of sweeping; the latter keeps my field free of entry hazards, increasing the longevity of my team. Gyro Ball along with a negative nature and 0 Spd IVs allow Forretress to deal some damage while walling a potential threat, Relaxed Nature and 0 Spd IVs come in handy with Volt Switch too, enabling Forretress to tank a hit and then flee out, passing the baton to one of its teammates. Furthermore, Volt Switch allows Forretress to escape from Magnezone's clutches.

    Possible changes: Move all SDef EVs to Def or replace Forretress with Magma Storm Heatran or Bronzong.

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    SeekAndDestroy (Dugtrio) (F) @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Arena Trap
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    IVs: 21 HP
    [​IMG] Stealth Rock
    [​IMG] Earthquake
    [​IMG] Reversal
    [​IMG] Stone Edge

    Despite having the lowest BST in the OU tier, luckluster defenses and subpar attack stat, Dugtrio still possess an important niche in the OU evironment, being the only fully-evolved Arena Trap user.
    Its ability, combined with its blistering base 120 Speed allow Dugtrio to be one of the best trappers and revenge killers in OU metagame. In sun teams, Dugtrio is a staple due to the fact that it can trap and kill Tyranitar or other weakened weather inducers easily, allowing Ninetales to set up sun as the dominant weather.
    Dugtrio's abilities don't stop here. It can trap and kill two of the major threats for Drought teams: Heatran and Volcarona. However, Dugtrio's paper-thin defenses don't let him switch into sun-boosted STAB Fire-type attacks (or any strong STAB attack), so one must be very careful when playing with the trio of moles.
    Furthermore, Dugtrio can trap and kill stuff like Terrakion, Blissey and weakened Tentacruel with little effort and then set up Stealth Rock before fainting. All in all, with the correct support and a good amount of prediction Dugtrio can really be determinant for this team's success.

    The EVs: pretty self-explanatory. 252 Atk and 252 Spd along with a Jolly Nature provide Dugtrio maximum power and speed. 4 SDef are useless like in any other stat. 21 HP IVs grant Dugtrio to survive two Seismic Tosses with 1 HP and thus fire off full-powered Reversals.

    The Moveset: Stealth Rock because none of my other team members (bar Forretress) can learn it and it's easily the best move in the game. Earthquake act as a reliable and powerful STAB. Stone Edge grants almost perfect coverage along Earthquake and allows Dugtrio to kill Volcarona easily and comes in handy against other pokes weak to it. Reversal in tandem with Focus Sash allow Dugtrio to survive a hit with 1 HP left and then retaliate with a full-powered Reversal.

    Possible changes: None.

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    MasterOfPuppets (Xatu) (F) @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spd
    Bold Nature
    [​IMG] Thunder Wave
    [​IMG] U-turn
    [​IMG] Roost
    [​IMG] Heat Wave

    Enter Xatu, another BW lottery winner, blessed with one of the best abilities in the game: Magic Bounce. This Trait let Xatu send back most non-damaging attacks in the game such as Stealth Rock, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Spore, Toxic, Thunder Wave, Roar etc. Simply put, it acts as a permanent Magic Coat.
    Xatu is the second half of my "VoltTurn hazard-control core" along with Forretress and it is just wonderful. It can switch into most hazards setters like Ferrothorn, Forretress, Skarmory and even Hippowdon with no efforts and bouncing hazards back. However there are some setters that it can't deal with, like Tyranitar, that's why I paired Xatu with Forretress so I always have a way of getting rid of hazards.
    Furthermore this magical bird is my dedicated counter to Breloom, sending back Spore and taking pitful damage from its attacks. Xatu does its best against stall team, though they're rare nowadays. Furthermore, Xatu is able to kill all the pokemons I mentioned before (bar Hippowdon) with a powerful and supereffective Heat Wave in the sun. You have no idea how many people let their Forretress or Ferrothorn in against Xatu just to see them melting.
    I chose Rocky Helmet as item because it comes in handy for stalling physical attackers, deal some damage to spinners and break Dragonite's Multiscale. Furthermore I didn't feel the need of the passive recovery provided by Leftovers as Xatu has access to Roost as its realiable recovery move.
    Despite its low base stats, this clairvoyant bird has never let me down.

    The EVs: 56 Spd EVs let Xatu outspeed Adamant Breloom and OHKO with Heat Wave in the sun. 248 HP EVs provide Xatu with an odd HP number in order to switch in 5 times in case of Stealth Rock and 204 Def EVs along with a Bold Nature maximize Xatu's physical bulk.

    The Moveset: Thunder Wave allow Xatu to cripple those fast and powerful attackers that like switch into it like Latios, however sometimes I wanted to run Toxic instead to better deal with stuff like Hippowdon. U-turn formes a VoltTurn core with Forretress, making prediction and especially Dugtrio switch-ins easier. Roost is Xatu's realiable recovery move that provides increased longevity and Heat Wave roastes each Steel-type that Xatu likes switching into and has decent power in the sun.

    Possible changes: Move all Spd EVs to Def and replace Thunder Wave with Toxic.

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    CreepingDeath (Salamence) (M) @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature
    [​IMG] Outrage
    [​IMG] Dragon Claw
    [​IMG] Earthquake
    [​IMG] Fire Blast

    Salamence was the last addiction to the team and man, I really love it. Salamence received a new toy in the BW transition too. Thanks to Dream World the mighty Dragon gained Moxie. I'm pretty sure you all know how it works but let me explain you, imagine a powerful outraging dragon that becomes more and more stronger as its opponents faint. Well, that's what Salamence is, a Dragon-type war machine that becomes more powerful the more it rages.
    Moxie has really been a great boon to Salamence, making its Choice Scarf set more deadly than ever, providing mixed attacking power with solid speed.
    Despite having a Choice Item, Salamence is very versatile and can act as a revenge killer and as late game sweeper once the opponent's checks and counters have been taken out.
    Salamence is easily one of the best Choice Scarf users in the game.

    The EVs: pretty simple, 252 Spd EVs and a positive nature for maximum speed enabling Salamence to outspeed stuff like +1 Dragonite and +1 Modest Volcarona, 252 Atk EVs take advantage of Salamence's high Base 135 Attack stat and let it fire off STAB Dragon-type attacks at full power. 4 SAtk EVs give a little more "oomph" to Fire Blast.

    The Moveset: Outrage is Salamence's strongest physical STAB and can punch huge holes into the opponent team, Dragon Claw is an alternative STAB move used when Salamence can't lock itself into Outrage, Earthquake gives coverage against most Steel-types, namely Heatran and Jirachi and Fire Blast is used for those Steel-types that are neutral or immune to Earthquake, like Skarmory, Ferrothorn and Forretress.

    Possible changes: None.

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    Threatlist
    Show Hide
    [​IMG] Hydreigon: Mixed Variants are a pain in the ass, none of my pokemon can swith in a boosted Draco Meteor. Choice sets are a little more easy to manage. However, usually I need to sac a mon and then Mence outspeeds and revenge kills. Luckily this thing is really rare.

    [​IMG] Landorus: SpecialRP variants 6-0 me. Physical variants are handled by Forretress. Special All Out Attacker always gets at least a kill, then Venusaur outspeeds and revenge kills with HP [Ice].

    [​IMG] Landorus-T: A really big threat, Forretress can handle it to an extent, but my only way to kill it is Venusaur's HP [Ice].

    [​IMG] Latios: Scarf variants are only outsped by Venusaur, none of my pokes can take a hit. It's definitely the biggest threat to this team.

    [​IMG] Lucario: SD Life Orb boosted can OHKO all my team bar Venusaur. I need to keep Dugtrio's Sash intact, switch in on SD and kill with Earthquake.

    [​IMG] Mamoswine: Along with Latios 2nd biggest threat to the team.



    Well, this was Fight Fire with Fire, a Drought team RMT by DoomTrain. Feel free to rate, steal or whatever, but please if you do leave a Luvdisc! :toast:


    Importable

    Show Hide
    JumpInTheFire (Ninetales) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 248 HP / 120 Def / 96 SDef / 44 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Flamethrower
    - Sunny Day
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Roar

    HarvesterOfSorrow (Venusaur) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 80 HP / 252 SAtk / 176 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Growth
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Sludge Bomb

    DontTreadOnMe (Forretress) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Volt Switch
    - Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Gyro Ball

    SeekAndDestroy (Dugtrio) (F) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Reversal
    - Stone Edge

    MasterOfPuppets (Xatu) (F) @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Thunder Wave
    - U-turn
    - Roost
    - Heat Wave

    CreepingDeath (Salamence) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast


  2. Livio

    Livio
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2012
    Messages:
    266
    Hey guy, even if da team is pretty standard (like a large part of Sunny teams) and has a good sinergy, i have to give you some advice about it. In fact, it seems have some embarassing threat, for example you have not much to do against Sheer Force RPLandorus after the boost, Landorus-T double dancer (you can t contain it after the boost on speed except with Forretress, that s anyway a setupp fodder for its Sword Dance), or against the common Fire types pokemon, first of all Heatran (you have not a safe Switch in, and you may only try to revengekill it with Duggy, but the Shed Shell set gives you 6-0 without any problem) or a random Infernape, especially with the support of the choice scarf. So my suggestions are:

    • Well, the first suggestion that i give you, is to replace your Forretress, you really don t need a spinner, in fact you already have a Magic Bouncer and have only to play well to dont put in your field the entry hazard, furthermore, you don t need a spikes setter because the team is enaugh offense, so you lose only Momentum when you try to set up. My suggestion is to run Heatran instead of him, it allows you the best answer to the common fire pokemon (Salamence is always a bad switch in, especially with the sun weather up) , while give you the good offense and the steel that you need to not be prey for the dragons. I d suggest you one with an Evs spread of 4HP/252Satk/252Spd Timid Nature and a moveset of Fire Blast/Flame Charge/Hidden Power [Ice]/Earth Power. It allows you a good switch in against the fire and dragon types, and give you a footprint much more offensive. The item could be Air Baloon, that allows you to enter on others heatran without any problem and start to boost on obvious switch off, or guarantee you the win of an eventual 1vs1 against Dugtrio.

    • You have some problem yet, in particular against pokemon such as Landorus(-T) polisher, or some other speed booster, such as Thundurus-t.
      My suggestion is to replace Latias instead of Salamence. With her good Def stat, Latias allows you to enter on the sbove threats and counter them, maintaining at the same time, the good offensive that you need.
      I d suggest you one with an evs spread of 72HP/184Satk/252Spd Timid Nature and a moveset of Psyshock/Draco Meteor/Hidden Power [Fire]/Recover. The investment in Hp allows you to have a bit bulk more without losing the offensive that characterizes the lat twins, furthermore guarantees you to hold a +2 Sludge Bomb of Clorophyll Venusaur and shot it with Psyshock. Well, you re losing a Scarfer, but i think taht your team is pretty fast and doesn t need one.
    • Last suggestion, easy but fundamental, is to replace Memento instead of Stone Edge on your Dugtrio. Stone Edge make you a bit weak to some Booster, preventing that the mole does its job in evely peace.

    Hope i Helped Bro :)

    Tl;dr

    Show Hide


    [​IMG]
    Heatran (F) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Flame Charge
    - Earth Power
    - Fire Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]


    [​IMG]

    Latias (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 72 HP / 184 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Draco Meteor
    - Recover
    - Psyshock

    [​IMG] Stone Edge ----> Memento
  3. DoomTrain

    DoomTrain

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    Messages:
    22
    Hey Uomo Solo! Thanks for your rate! I think you pointed out almost all problems this team has.
    I agree with Forretress being kinda dead weight but it has been working really good so far.
    I don't think that Heatran would be a good addiction to the team as it will increase my weakness to Landorus, Terrakion etc. I know it has the Air Baloon as item but it usually pops in a heartbeat.
    In place of Forretress I am now testing Bronzong, which covers pretty much every weakness I had.

    I am testing Latias instead of Salamence and it's working wonders! I miss Salamence's raw power a bit but having another solid switch in to rain teams does worth it, thanks! =)
  4. DoomTrain

    DoomTrain

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    Messages:
    22
    Ok, after some further tests I'm running these new pokemons and EVs spreads:

    [​IMG]
    HarvesterOfSorrow (Venusaur) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 72 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 180 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Growth
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Sludge Bomb

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - U-turn
    - Fire Punch
    - Ice Punch
    - Iron Head

    [​IMG]
    MasterOfPuppets (Xatu) (F) @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Toxic
    - U-turn
    - Roost
    - Heat Wave

    [​IMG]
    Latias (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 72 HP / 184 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Recover

    Jirachi and Latias replace respectively Forrtress and Salamence

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