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Fighting against rain in the sand.

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Arikado, May 9, 2013.

  1. Arikado

    Arikado العدالة تمطر من فوق
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 17, 2010
    I couldn't think of a cheesy title so I went with this shitty one instead.
    After quitting competitive Pokemon a while before B/W2 were released, I've finally came back after a year and a half and it's actually better than before. Oh well, here it comes:

    Team building process:

    I started with Mew. A Pokemon I've used in the B/W metagame before I quit with great success. And what better set is there to use in the OU besides the Wallbreaker set?

    Next came Tyranitar. Always had him in all of my teams, always will. It's just a great Pokemon. Incredible special bulk, respectable physical bulk despite all his weaknesses, and impressive attack stats even though it lacks a bit in terms of speed, but that's not that much of a big deal in this metagame.

    Next came in was Latias. A great little princess. Impressive defenses, great speed, and respectable matk. I've used a set before (with success) that can work as a bulky LO sweeper and a great status absorber, so I thought I'd use it again. And, well, it didn't disappoint.

    The newly added member here was Jirachi. I was looking for a scarfed revenge-killer when it hit me, Jirachi has 100 base speed which can troll all the scarfed Kyurem-B, Salamence, Gyarados (yes, it exists), and basically anything with a 90-100 base speed. It also can abuse hax to it's advabtage thanks to Iron Head. So for those reasons, I didn't hesitate to add a scarfed Jirachi with the 3 elemental punches and iron head into my team.

    Keldeo. I never liked Keldeo. I absolutely hate ponies. But I changed my mind about him when I added him into my team to try and check rain, it's pretty beast. Even though many of the times it's completely walled thanks to poor STAB combinations, it still puts holes into an enemy's rain (or not) team.

    And finally, the last member of the team, Ferrothorn. I still felt a little rain weak so I added this guy. I also noticed the lack of a Pokemon that can setup Stealth Rock in my team so that's another reason. Even though I never liked this guy, he also turned out to be a beast with Leech Seed support.

    That was my final team for a while. After a little bit testing though, it turns out that I was weak to specially-defensive Heatran pretty badly, so I had change a Pokemon in my team, and it was Jirachi.

    Now that's what I call a "rain rapist"! In a metagame centered mostly of rain, this team can hold up very well. Even against sun it can do pretty good (on paper, haven't tested). And I'm willing to bet all my money that it can rape hail as well. Conkeldurr was a great addition to my team and a pretty good revenge-killer that could replace Jirachi.

    Team at a glance:


    In depth:

    [​IMG] @ Leftovers
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Taunt
    - Softboiled
    - Ice Beam

    My usual lead. It doesn't only blow people away since they ALWAYS think it's gonna use Stealth Rock, but it also blows people away because it spreads burns and can easily break through walls with Taunt/Burn. Ice Beam does great against dragons whether they're burned or not. Dragonite isn't a problem here because I can easily burn him and tank all his physical hits, a mixed Dragonite with Hurricane in the rain can be quite troublesome though, but I can burn to negate Multiscale's effect assuming SR isn't up and then Ice Beam for a neat OHKO or 2HKO. It can't really do anything besides Hurricane.

    I've ran against a bunch of people who switch in Xatu on Mew fearing an SR or a Taunt, but they're vulnerable to Ice Beam. Although reflecting Taunt unto my Mew is annoying, I can predict a switch and Ice Beam right away. Espeon is the problem though, especially variants with HP Fighting or Signal Beam. Tyranitar, despite being specially defensive, can fall to those.

    It's pretty obvious why I chose Taunt on this moveset, to break walls and cripple Pokemon like Blissey or Ferrothorn and the likes. And it works pretty well. Softboiled is my healing move of choice and it's pretty great. Mew doesn't die easily unless he's being constantly being hit with heavy moves.

    EVs make this guy quite bulky and able to take an Outrage from dragons and retaliate with either a burn to make Mew tank another one and cripple the dragons or Ice Beam if I'm comfortable it will score an OHKO. Timid 72 Spd make me outspeed all Tyranitar, Magnezone, max Heatran and Scizor. The only 4 I need to outspeed.

    [​IMG] (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 244 HP / 36 Atk / 220 SDef / 8 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower
    - Stone Edge

    My powerhorse. Not only does it counter the Lati@s solid, but it can also do huge amounts of damage thanks to Crunch to basically anything that doesn't resist it. Superpower nails down stupid Ferrothorn switch-ins and it's a pretty good coverage move as it can do a neat chunk of damage to anything that switches in. Pursuit is obvious as I need it to trap the Lati@s, and Crunch is my preferable STAB move that I spam if there was nothing that resists it. Stone Edge is just.. well, it's there. It's a good STAB but I usually never use it since it's unreliable and especially on this variant of Tyranitar. I can't afford a missed Stone Edge, yet it's there for good damage.

    EVs make Tyranitar bulky on the special side that it can never die against a Lati@s unless it has prior-damage, and even with that there's a big chance that I will trap the Lati@s and OHKO anyway. 8 Spd allow me to speed-creep other Tyranitars with no speed investments and rape them with Superpower.

    [​IMG] @ Fist Plate
    Trait: Iron Fist
    EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Mach Punch
    - Drain Punch
    - Bulk Up
    - Payback

    My revenge-killer of choice, and not only can it revenge-kill excellently with Mach Punch, it can also be a great set-up sweeper thanks to Bulk Up and Fist Plate/Iron Fist/Mach Punch combo. Obviously mach punch is there to revenge-kill, Drain Punch is there as a solid method of recovery after a Bulk Up or two if I'm in the safezone and can't be killed, and Payback is for Pokemon that resist Mach Punch (Gyarados, mainly) who can outspeed Conk.

    EVs are straight-forward. Maximum attack with maximum bulk possible and 12 speed to speed-creep other Conks, as they can be quite troublesome to my team. Fist Plate is excellent because I already have a good way of recovery (Drain Punch) and I really need a boosted Mach Punch to revenge-kill anything and everything, even those that resist it. (Looking at you, Thundurs-T.)

    [​IMG] (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 152 HP / 176 SAtk / 180 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Refresh
    - Recover
    - Surf

    You might get surprised that I actually use Refresh/Recover combo on my Latias but it really works quite well. Latias is my status absorber and it does a very good job at that. Not only does it absorb status, but it's also a very capable sweeper with Draco Meteor and can do a lot of damage with Surf provided that it's raining.

    152 HP EVs minimize Life Orb damage and let me survive a +2 Lucario ExtremeSpeed, even though I can't really OHKO, but I can still do respectable damage with Surf.

    [​IMG] @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Substitute
    - Calm Mind
    - Surf
    - Secret Sword

    My preferable rain check and arguably the best Pokemon in the current metagame. Although I'm not convinced much with this set and I actually considered Scarf Keldeo to replace Jirachi but I couldn't accept that build either. I tried this build and.. even though it can do some great stuff if it managed to pull a Sub and a Calm Mind, it's completely walled by things like Lati@s and Jellicent, so I'm thinking of switching the moveset around.

    Keldeo's a great rain check though, a Surf after a +1 boost under the rain can really hurt anything badly, and Secret Sword is a great other STAB.

    [​IMG] (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Another rain check, and my Stealth Rocker of choice. Leech Seed has been great help for Mew as it can let him stall with Burn/Leech Seed and Softboiled/Ice Beam, and Protect can help Ferro himself stall. HP Fire might seem useless to you (especially since this IS a rain check) but it really hasn't been useless to me. Even with a base SpA of 54, it has more than 50% chance to OHKO Scizor and 100% OHKO with SR up. Yeah, it will be blown away by CB Superpower, but it can nail SD Scizor who think they can set-up on a free switch. And believe it or not, it actually helped me quite a few times against opposing Ferrothorns as well, even Forretress, although I usually switch into Mew to prevent it from setting all the entry hazards. EV spread is a pretty basic one, so that covers it all.

    Threats I've noticed:

    [​IMG] + [​IMG]: Separately, Heatran can't really do anything, but together with Celebi it's hell. Celebi being able to counter Keldeo and Latias cold, while still being able to damage my Tyranitar (somewhat), and Heatran being able to take my Ttar's CB Crunch (while Celebi takes CB Superpower). My only hope of defeating them would be to sacrifice a Pokemon to get in Tyranitar against Celebi and Pursuit, fingers crossed it's not an offensive Celebi with Leaf Storm.

    [​IMG] / [​IMG]: I just can't touch them. Especially if they have Signal Beam (in Espeon's case) and surprisingly I've ran against a lot that do. Alakazam can simply sweep through most of my team with just Psychic and Focus Blast while I can barely do anything in return, only hope I have is to catch him offguard with Tyranitar, survive his Focus Blast and OHKO with Crunch.

    I've been thinking of switching Conkeldurr with Scizor )especially since Gengar causes me some troubles, too) but I don't know, Conkeldurr has been very good and won me many matches.

    Considered changes:

    Landorus > Keldeo. I decided that Keldeo, while being an awesome rain check and sometimes pulls an amazing sweep if it manages to set-up, doesn't really do much besides luring Jellicent and Celebi out. I'm currently testing this Landorus instead of my Keldeo:
    Landorus @ Expert Belt/Choice Scarf (need to scarf to beat my threats, need the belt for extra HP Ice/QuakEdge power)
    Naive 252 Atk | 4 HP | 252 Spe Sand Force
    Earthquake - Stone Edge - U-turn - HP Ice

    Problem though is that I realized that with this over Keldeo, I'm walled cold by Skarmory so I'm thinking of Gravity. Though a Gravity set still wouldn't fix my weakness against Alakazam/Espeon and to an extent, Gengar.
  2. Arikado

    Arikado العدالة تمطر من فوق
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 17, 2010
  3. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte Who says I can't get stoned?
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Jul 5, 2012
    Hey, I got your request.

    If countering Rain is what this team sets out to do, I'll give you a nice pat on the back because the team does it well. However, your overuse of Rain counters and lack of proper counters to weatherless and opposing Sand sweepers makes this team a bit weaker in that regard. As you have pointed out, the team is quite weak both offensively and defensively to some pretty common Psychic types. Espeon can OHKO Keldeo and Conkeldurr and wall Ferrothorn and Mew. Alakazam can KO Tyranitar, OHKO your Fighting-types, and shrug off Leech Seed and hazards damage. Choice Band Tyranitar is good at trapping slower Psychic types such as Lati@s, Mew, or Celebi, but in order to trap things like Alakazam or Gengar, your Tyranitar needs more bulk, not more power. I think you should try Specially Defensive Tyranitar instead of your Banded one.

    Tyranitar @ Leftovers
    252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpDef
    Crunch / Pursuit / Superpower / Stealth Rock

    This Tyranitar solves multiple problems of the team without changing too much of the synergy that is present. It reliably traps and KOs Alakazam and Gengar, both of whom can outspeed BandTar and OHKO with Focus Blast. SpDefTar can sponge an FBlast and still OHKO with Crunch or Pursuit. Plus, it can still reliably handle all of the other special attackers you're probably used to handling, such as Lati@s or Espeon. Another advantage of SpDef TTar is the ability to switch attacks. You won't be setup fodder after trapping things, and you'll be anle to hit hard and trap at different times without having to switch. This also means that, with Superpower, Tyranitar can take care of your CeleTran weakness by KOing Celebi with Pursuit and KOing Heatran with Superpower. As an added bonus, it can sponge special attacks, and set Stealth Rock, too.

    Other than changing TTar, I don't see many other major changes you could do to solve your team's problems. As you've said, Scizor over Conk could be a good idea, but then you become extremely weak to Sun, to the point where it'd do more harm than good.

    There are, however, some small changes that you can make. I feel as if your logic in using Latias as a status sponge is flawed because you do have a Mew on the team- which not only plays a much less important role but can also reflect status back at the opponent, making it a more ideal status absorber. For this reason, I suggest you use Mew as your status absorber and then replace Latias's Refresh with Hidden Power Fire. This will not only help you more solidly check Steels such as Skarmory, Forretress, Scizor, or Ferrothorn, but also help Latias escape from being walled by Celebi.

    Let TTar set Rocks and let Latias help handle Steel-types and Ferrothorn suddenly gets two open moveslots. Its Stealth Rock hazard support is no longer needed, so I suggest that you tried Spikes instead, for further entry hazards to inflict damage to your opponents. It also pressures your opponent to bring out their spinner and spin, which, in the case of Starmie, you can trap with TTar, and in the case of Tenta or Forretress, you can set up with Keldeo or Conkeldurr. Then, instead of HP Fire, I would run Gyro Ball, just so you can hit faster foes for extra damage, as well as prevent yourself from being set up upon by sweepers. It hits DDancers and Scarfers for a lot of damage too, checking your team's relative lack of Speed. Thunder Wave is another option, and can by your teammates extra opportunities to sweep, but it makes Ferrothorn setup fodder for Sub sweepers, Ground-types, and Taunters.

    Cool team. Good luck!

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