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FINAL BOSS

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by Zach, May 27, 2010.

  1. Zach

    Zach

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2009
    Messages:
    780
    FINAL BOSS
    ............

    !introduction

    Hello, children!! Presenting my new RMT here "FINAL BOSS"!! It's a semistall team or stall team with some offensive elements if you're the kind of person who doesn't like all these asinine terms being made. Brief history first: after my previous RMT, SUPERSTALLING FUN, I decided to take a break from semistall for a while. I created and discarded countless DDRoost Mence teams, Spikes Offense teams, Specs Heatrans, some combinations of the three, and other random things that I had wanted to play with for a while but didn't. Unfortunately, my teams sucked. So after a while I returned to stall teams, and began playing around with that. This team is the result of about a month's worth of ideas for a team; I eventually settled on this general idea that I wanted a MixMence on a semistall team. Why? Salamence is notorious for his ability to soften up bulky Pokemon with his fearsome Draco Meteor, his excellent typing and STAB, and his perfectly distributed stats. When you combine this with Spike support, Salamence is all the more menacing and broken. So I set out to make the team and the products are below. So about the team itself: it begins with the SkarmBliss combination. This duo make an effective combination that take advantage of the pokemon that threaten one another, allowing for the easy set up of Spikes and Stealth Rock or the spread of Toxic damage. In other words, they may not wall everything ever like in ADV, but they are still the undisputable King and Queen of stalling. And where there is SkarmBliss, there is a Rotom-a: all that hard work getting those hazards up shouldn't go to waste because of Rapid Spin. Rotom is also a solid check to countless things in the metagame; Metagross, Scizor, Gyarados, etc. Rotom also spin blocks pretty well against most Pokemon; Forretress can only manage a 3HKO, and not even that after Will-o-Wisp. Starmie is more of a pain but can be handled for the most part. The worst is Hydro Pump / Life Orb / Rapid Spin versions but even those can be bested with prediction and Blissey. This leaves me with two slots. I take this time to notice a shameful weakness to Infernape, a saddening defeat in the face of DD Salamence, and a quick rout by Taunt Life Orb Heatran. So in came Suicune; it might not be the best answer to all these threats, but it certainly carries its weight with its incredible bulk, great typing, and the ability to pull off a Calm Mind sweep pretty easily. One slot left. With Salamence's Draco Meteors and Spikes constantly breaking down the enemy's thick defenses, the perfect cleaner is Choice Scarf Jirachi. Jirachi loves the way Salamence weakens bulky Waters and the way that Spikes chips away at bulky Pokemon's health, meaning Jirachi has to count on one less turn of flinching in order to Iron Head its way to victory. Once the team has been weakened and everything is outsped, there is little chance that once Jirachi is brought out that the opponent will win. Overall I'm very happy with this team, although I wish I was a bit more innovative with the sets, but its played successfully none the less. GO GO GO:
    ............

    !hello​

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    ............


    (quick note: My last RMT, SUPERSTALLING FUN, was made shortly after I beat The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker, so I gave my team members Wind Waker themed names. Well this RMT was created shortly after I beat The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess and in the spirit of tradition or maybe just lack of creativity I'm using Twilight Princess themed names.)

    Usurper King the Skarmory, Lum Berry.

    [​IMG] | [​IMG]
    252 HP / 148 SpD / 108 Spe
    Careful nature
    -Taunt
    -Spikes
    -Roost
    -Whirlwind


    Skarmory, the Spike stacking lead. Spikes are the center point of this team, as they are the main component fueling this team's stalling capabilities and its offensive prowess. And since Spikes are so important to this team, I went with what is in my opinion, the best user of Spikes in standard play: Specially Defensive Taunt Skarmory. The EV spread maximizes the number of Pokemon Skarmory can set up on, expanding that pool to include Blissey, Vaporeon, Swampert, Suicune, Celebi, and more. Taunt further increases that pool by preventing pHazers and status users from stopping Skarmory, all while preventing the opponent from healing or setting up hazards of their own. 252 HP is used to compensate for Skarmory's poor HP stat and is pretty much necessary since I'm using Skarm defensively. 148 Special Defense ensures that 80 SpA Blissey can never 2HKO Skarmory with Flamethrower; it also prevents Suicune and Vaporeon from doing the same with Surf. 108 Spe outruns 16 Spe Gyarados, preventing them from Resting before a Taunt or Roaring before a Whirlwind. Speaking of Whirlwind, Skarmory is the team's sole pHazer, and although having only one isn't fun, Skarmory's ability to set up Spikes and then accumulate damage with Whirlwind is great. Lum + Taunt beats Roserade and Smeargle. And the icing on the cake: Skarm has instant recovery in Roost.

    Usurper King Zant (spoilers) (open)
    [​IMG]

    Once a Prince in the Royal Family of The Twilight Realm, Zant had a dream of becoming the King of the Twilight People. However, when the throne was handed instead to the Twilight Princess, Zant attacked her and usurped the throne. With his new questionably obtained power, Zant pursued his second aspiration: to take the kingdom of Hyrule and the rest of the world and shroud it in the Twilight that he revered, so that he would preside over it all. At least, those seemed to be his motives, but he was in fact a minion of Ganon, who appeared to Zant as a god and granted him some of the strength from his Triforce of Power, so that Zant might do his bidding. Zant is the primary antagonist for most of the game.


    Agitha the Blissey, Leftovers.

    [​IMG] | [​IMG]
    24 HP / 252 Def / 232 SpD
    Bold nature
    -Stealth Rock
    -Toxic
    -Flamethrower
    -Softboiled


    You can stick with your Special Defense or Scarf Tars guys, but Blissey will always do this job better. Blissey walls stuff, and I'd be weak to stuff without her. Together, her and Skarm form an excellent stalling and entry hazard core. Many of the things that scare away Skarmory, ie Heatran, are Stealth Rock bait for Blissey. Toxic is used because it maximizes the number of Pokemon Blissey can beat one on one. Toxic is also great for poisoning random Pokemon like MixMence (to which Blissey is a great check), Gliscor (as it switches in), Tyranitar, etc. Flamethrower is the attacking move of choice because it has great neutral and super effective coverage, and it also works well together with Toxic. Softboiled = more recovery, woohoo.

    Princess Agitha (open)
    [​IMG]

    Agitha is a delusional girl that lives in a place called "Agitha's Castle" in Hyrule Castle Town. When she first meets Link, wearing his green tunic, she thinks he is a grasshopper and is surprised to discover he is a person. She then launches into her story about how she is the Princess of the Insect Kingdom, and that she invited the 24 Golden Bugs of Hyrule to a Royal Ball, but they all seem to have gotten lost. She asks Link to help her find them; giving her Golden Bugs is rewarded with money and wallet upgrades.


    Poe the Rotom-a, Leftovers.

    [​IMG] | [​IMG]

    248 HP / 124 Def / 136 SpD
    Bold nature
    -Thunderbolt
    -Will-o-Wisp
    -Rest
    -Sleep Talk


    Spike team need spin blocker bleh. Yeah, it blocks Rapid Spin and the only other thing that does that well is Spiritomb which would actually be kinda cool to fight Machamp better but Rotom-a has got way better resists. Thunderbolt is general obligatory STAB and hits Steel types neutrally rather than super-effectively for some reason, but Rotom still manages to be a main check of SD Scizor and Agiligross quite well. In addition, check to Gyarados here. I went with the slow defensive spread because I've got enough checks to Lucario. Also Will-o-Wisp burns Salamence and Scarf Tar and stuff. Its especially amusing to burn Scarf Tar, because it can't OHKO me, so if it Crunches, I just switch after Burning, and if it Pursuits, I rest instead. Rest Sleep Talk recovery blah blah

    Poe (huuuuuge ass pic) (open)
    [​IMG]

    60 poe's are spread across Hyrule, and they together hold a curse on a very rich man named Jovani, who sold his soul to these Poes for reasons unknown. Finding and defeating all the poes will break the curse on Jovani, who was previously immobile, and as a reward he will provide you a literally unlimited source of money.


    Lanayru the Suicune, Leftovers.

    [​IMG] | [​IMG]

    232 HP / 252 Def / 24 Spe
    Bold nature
    -Calm Mind
    -Surf
    -Ice Beam
    -Rest


    Suicune was the final addition to the defensive core, and as such, it attempts to act as a catchall to what the other defense mons are weak to. Some of these Pokemon include Infernape, Salamence, Heatran (especially Taunt Life Orb), Tyranitar etc. Suicune is certainly not the ideal answer to each individual Pokemon here, but I have been satisfied with Suicune's ability to check these Pokemon to a respectable extent. Surf is obligatory STAB, has respectable 95 Base Power, hits aforementioned Tyranitar, Infernape, and Heatran super effective style, and most importantly I need it to get to Kanto. Ice Beam is for Salamence tbh. This leaves two slots left. I could have gone with 3 attack Cune but I already had Rotom at this point and I wanted Suicune to get some recovery, so I stuck in Rest. The final slot it CM because hurr durr open slot on Cune stick in CM. Actually, I've been pleasantly surprised with how many times Suicune pulls off a Calm Mind sweep. Also, the 24 Speed EVs mean that Suicune will outrun most Defensive Rotom, getting in another Calm Mind before taking a Thunderbolt.

    Lanayru (huge pic) (open)
    [​IMG] Lanayru is one of the four Light Spirits of Hyrule, and is responsible for watching over the titular Lanayru Province. Lanayru is the last light spirit that link encounters in the game, and it appears as a serpentine or dragon-like creature. It seems to dwell underwater, unlike the other light spirits. It is named after the Golden Goddess Nayru.




    Argorok the Salamence, Life Orb.

    [​IMG] | [​IMG]
    16 Attack / 240 Special Attack / 252 Speed
    Naive nature
    -Draco Meteor
    -Flamethrower
    -Brick Break
    -Roost


    Totin' gats strapped with infrared beams. This is the centerpiece, the focal point, and the creme de la creme. Salamence loves to fire off his incredibly powerful Draco Meteors - which is hard enough to switch into without the Spikes - roasting the Steel types who try to resist into a crisp. There is no counter to Salamence because even those that can stand up to his attacks struggle to do so. Thats why even in the face of Scizors, Jirachis, Suicunes, and Swamperts, Salamence is extremely threatening and powerful. The terrifying Special Attacking combination of Draco Meteor and Flamethrower is complimented perfectly by Brick Break, which can 2HKO Blissey, and also hit Heatran super effectively, as he would otherwise be the one Pokemon that resisted all moves in the set. Salamence's excellent offensive stats are supported well by his considerable base 100 speed; to take full advantage of this, I use max Speed and a Naive nature. 16 EVs are placed in Attack to secure the 2HKO on Blissey. The remaining EVs are dumped into Special Attack so that I get as much juice as I can behind the Draco Meteor. Also, Lucario check. And finally: all this comes with instant-recovery Roost.

    Twilit Dragon Argorok (open)
    [​IMG]

    Argorok is the final boss of the game besides the two antagonists, Zant and Ganondorf. He is fought at the end of the long and challenging dungeon called City in the Sky, which is an aptly named city located in the sky and the home of the Oocca race. Argorok apparently has been terrorizing the Oocca people for quite some time now, and it can be seen causing havoc and several points throughout the dungeon. Argorok holds the last shard of the Mirror of Twilight, which is necessary in order to access the Palace of Twilight, where Zant resides.


    Midna the Jirachi, Choice Scarf.

    [​IMG] | [​IMG]

    4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed
    Jolly nature
    -Iron Head
    -Fire Punch
    -Thunderpunch
    -Trick


    This is the cleaner. The idea is to bring this in when there are no longer Swamperts/Heatrans/Skarmory/Etc. around to wall it. This is easy to achieve with the combination of Spikes and Salamence's attacks, as they easily weaken the opponent to Jirachi flinch range. Speaking of which, Iron Head is STAB, and the 60% flinch rate is devastating in combination with Spikes and Jirachi's speed. Besides being the main cleaner for this team, Jirachi is an important utility to check stuff. This includes Gyarados (fuck you Waterfall flinches on Rotom), Tyranitar, Lucario, Salamence (sometimes), etc. Also it can trick Crocune and CM Jirachi, who are assholes.

    Midna (spoilers) (open)
    [​IMG]

    Midna, also known as the Twilight Princess, was the Queen of Twilight prior to the events of the game. However, the throne was usurped from her when Zant attacked her and turned her into an imp. Wanting revenge, she recruits Link to help her because he appeared to her as a wolf and it is twilit legend that a "divine beast" would save the twilight people. This prophecy comes to pass when Link and Midna defeat the oppresive Usurper King Zant at the Palace of Twilight.


    ............


    !consider

    ............


    [​IMG] | [​IMG]
    24 HP / 226 Def / 120 SpA / 138 Spe
    Bold nature
    -Stealth Rock
    -Toxic
    -Flamethrower
    -Softboiled


    This is a slightly modified Blissey that outspeeds and OHKOs standard Choice Band Scizor with Flamethrower. The 24 HP EVs are a Leftovers number; the rest is dumped into Defense. Luring and killing Scizor is a good thing for Salamence but the significantly lower investment in Special Defense worries me somewhat, even though this is a Blissey.

    [​IMG] | [​IMG]
    24 HP / 252 Def / 232 SpD
    Bold nature
    -Stealth Rock
    -Wish
    -Flamethrower
    -Protect


    Passing Wish helps Suicune, Jirachi, and Rotom, which is nice. However, Blissey loses the ability to Toxic stuff, which is important.

    [​IMG] | [​IMG]
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly nature
    -Dragon Dance
    -Outrage
    -Earthquake
    -Roost


    It's more of a sweeper unlike MixMence. It can't kill Skarmory though, and Salamence is my main switch to Skarm if Stealth Rock is not up. It's a very viable alternative, though. One of its most important advantages is that it can stand up to Calm Mind Jirachi better - this team's biggest threat.

    [​IMG] | [​IMG]
    252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
    Bold nature
    -Surf
    -Hidden Power Electric
    -Wish
    -Protect


    It's better against Infernape and has Wish. However, it can't take on Salamence so I'd probably give Jirachi Ice Punch.

    ............
  2. Smith

    Smith is a 90's bitch
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,341
    I couldn't bear to watch this team get no rates, so I had to say something. This team is fantastic and uses Salamence in a way I never even thought of. The only suggestion I could offer is to replace Calm Mind with Sleep Talk, because while Cune is asleep Infernape and Salamence can actually Set up on her and incur severe damage on the rest of your team, especially if jirachi is dead or worse, paralyzed.
  3. Zach

    Zach

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2009
    Messages:
    780
    Thanks for rating

    I do kinda agree with you my only objections are that CM cune sweeps are sometimes important for this team but tbh thats not really a good reason. I'll test Sleep Talk over Calm Mind.
  4. Alex Practice

    Alex Practice

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    686
    I like the team a lot, but I do have a few small suggestions that you might want to try.

    Blissey is a reliable Stealth Rock user, but it's frustrating for me to effectively play with 3 moves on her for the rest of the game if the opponent doesn't have a Spinner (A majority of teams these days seem to lack one). Also, I think Wish+Protect are far superior to Softboiled; Not only does it allow you to heal your other Pokemon (Who will be taking residual damage and entry hazard damage, even if they do happen to have recovery moves), but it allows you to scout for Trick and Explosion, as well.

    Suicune: I'd highly recommend using Sleep Talk over Ice Beam. And if you really want a second move for coverage, I'd say HP Electric is much better than Ice Beam (lets you deal with Vaporeon, Gyarados, Starmie, and other Suicune without having to have 6 CMs to deal good damage with Surf.)

    Rotom: Looks good, but just out of curiosity, why this forme? Is it just a preference based on looks, or are you able to bluff Hydro Pump?
  5. McNUTTY

    McNUTTY

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    119
    Great Team by the way! personally when i play stall/semi-stall i like to use a perish song user. its a great phazer and it helps a lot against things like last poke-CroCene which some one has already said is a real bitch to your team... I would vote to using a Perish Song Celebi over your CroCene. it gives you more fun Phazing which no set up sweeper likes =P.
    The Set that i have been using to great effect is:
    Celebi@leftovers
    Nature: Calm
    Evs: 252 HP 32 speed 220 Special Defence
    Moveset: Perish Song Recover U-Turn Toxic
    Perish Song is the Crux of the set Phazing and giving you a guaranteed win condition. Recover for self Recovery. U-Turn to escape on the last turn of the Song and to Scout. Toxic was a filler but it helped stall out the turns quicker, making CroCene rest quicker or to leave a mark on something that switched in.

    Good Luck with the team!
  6. scarloc

    scarloc

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2010
    Messages:
    93
    hello
    the team you have is very good. it must be fun to use:) it covers many pokes that are threatening. a few hints
    salamence is probalby better with dragon claw than brick break. this is because dragon claw gets STAB and will 2hko blissey after spikes. i don't know, but i think brick break will ohko. despite this, dragon claw is the superior option and is another option to hit flygon and dragonite with as draco meteors accuracy and drop in special attack makes it less reliable.

    secondly. alot of pressure is put upon jirachi. if there is still heatran on the opponents team when you think there isn't you will be in trouble. i suggest playing carefully and thinking every step through otherwise surprise pokes will make life unbearable.

    lastly. mence could be going up to uber, so start thinking of an alternate pokemon
  7. greenstreet

    greenstreet

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    75
    Errr if Mence is going to uber the closest thing who can wallbreak would be Infernape but he gets raped with all the waters running around now. Hopefully he doesnt get uber since this team will suffer badly and now stall would be harder to dismantle than before.

    On to the team, its really great and I cant find any glaring weakness at all except an insurance against taunt leads and machamp leads. Maybe run a brave bird somewhere on skarmory? Hope I helped, really great spike offense team.
  8. Delko

    Delko "ghost mod"
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
    3,326
    What, Dragonite is a solid wallbreaker as well. Although (to some) inferiour to Salamence it has a wider movepool to help him beat stall. Wallbreaker Dragonite looks like this:

    Dragonite @ life orb/ rash/ inner focus
    112 Atk, 196 SAtk, 200 Spe

    - Draco Meteor
    - Flamethrower
    - Super Power
    - Roost

    To be honest Stealth Rock is just a wast of a moveslot on Blissey. Instead you could have Aromatherapy or the Wish + Protect combo. Therefor I suggest Stealth Rock on Jirachi so you have a free moveslot on Blissey to one of the aformentioned moves. On Jirachi I would place it over Trick. You could even Lead with Jirachi so you can save your team's sole (P)hazer for some time later.

    Not much to say about the rest of the team as it is well constructed and well presented (as always) so good luck with the rest of the team.
  9. Zach

    Zach

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2009
    Messages:
    780
    I agree about the Crocune weakness but sticking HP Electric over Rest isn't going to do much to fix the weakness, even if it's super effective.

    Where do you suggest I put Stealth Rock if not on Blissey? The only other users are Jirachi and Skarmory and neither have room for Stealth Rock.

    And about Rotom, yeah bluffing Hydro Pump is cool I guess and I like the way it looks.

    Well besides the fact that the set you suggested has no attacking move (U-turn doesn't cut it), my team has a hard enough time fighting Infernape and Heatran even with my Suicune. No thanks

    I don't want to use Dragon Claw. It leaves Salamence walled by Heatran, only 2HKOes Blissey if Stealth Rock is down (unlike Brick Break, which can 2HKO without Stealth Rock), and I don't need it to kill Flygon and Dragonite, especially when the former is huge Spikes bait for Skarm, and the latter is never going to switch in or stay in on Salamence anyway.

    I don't understand your second point. How does an opposing Heatran pose a threat to Jirachi, besides simply walling it? I just switch out if a Heatran comes in.

    Brave Bird is def an option to help against Machamp. Will try.

    Stealth Rock isn't a waste on Blissey; she is one of its best users. I think its much more of a waste on Jirachi, choice locked Stealth Rock is bigger set up bait than anything. Besides, I can't afford to replace Trick, I need it to beat random stuff like CroCune and CM Jirachi.

    Thanks everyone for rating.
  10. Zach

    Zach

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2009
    Messages:
    780
    bring up my post

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