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Postgame Final Fantasy V Postgame

Discussion in 'Circus Maximus' started by Acklow, Jul 24, 2011.

  1. Acklow

    Acklow

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    3,598
    HAH I BEAT QUAGSIRES TO POSTING UP OUR RESPECTIVE POSTGAMES

    [​IMG]


    How to start…how to start…

    Well to be quite honest, Final Fantasy V Mafia was intended to be a direct sequel to Final Fantasy III Mafia. The hype from FF3 Mafia, along with my experience from hosting a mafia game made me long for some more action. And so, I began building the next Final Fantasy Mafia. Originally the same roles were to be used, not too mention a new set up in the system that made MP and Exp viable. Factions would be preset like in FF3, but they would be slightly different, to give other roles that were weak (e.g. Dragoon) a buff. It was all great, and I thought I was doing such a fantastic job…until Johann pointed out that using the same role names and such would make it easy for those who were in FF3 to win, as they would know the boundaries and limits of the roles. Thus, we both began brainstorming for ways to recreate a game similar to FF3. I suggested that we started looking at different Final Fantasy games (especially the early ones) for ones that used the job system that FF3 used. We ran across FFV during our search, and I told him that we had hit the jackpot. From there, I thought long and hard about how to apply the roles, abilities, and items into a Mafia game. The first segment of this work took about 3 months (October-December). Finally mid-January, after taking a break from Smogon due to some school stuff I had been overwhelmed with, I restarted my work on FFV. The idea to make the game a sort of free-for-all began to develop in my mind, but I realized that I really didn't like the idea of a free-for-all to begin with. That is how "Open-Alliances" came about. I had experienced a little bit of Von's Card Game Mafia, and liked that I was able to be free as a bird, but I felt like the fact that we were pre-assigned our factions was a little too restricting. Therefore, I brainstormed various ways to best use an Open-Alliance set up. The thought of using letters as a way of forming alliances was quite a bizarre one, but I decided to put it up to a test, making it a staple in the game. Next up was the Level-Up system. Similar to a rogue who gained powers upon death, Leveling-Up was to become one of the biggest parts of this game because it had never been done before. I initially intended to have players be able to level up to Level 5, but Johann disagreed, saying that it would take too long if we were to require players to fulfill their Unique Missions. Thus, Level 4 became the Level Cap to this game. In order to help create a viable setting for Leveling-Up to occur, I decided to abandon the usual Single Win Condition in favor of multiple "mini-Win Conditions" in the form of Missions. Anyways, to make the rest of this long story short, all of these factors eventually helped create the game that you guys have played/watched.


    Here are my reflections upon the experimental concepts of the game:

    Level-Up: I would say that of all the 3 things I experimented in this game, this was probably the most successful. The concept adds a lot of depth to the game and allows players to use their roles in multiple ways. This game took advantage of it too since it used a Stat system, so votes, HP and other things would gain a bonus from leveling up. I would recommend that anyone who wishes to use a level-up system in their future Mafia games, that they utilize a Stat system in their game, since it seems like not using one would only be beneficial for abilities (in which case just make the role a rogue and don't call it leveling up…)

    Missions: This concept was one tough cookie to handle. Especially the ones involving alliances (I'll delve into those in just a moment). Missions were originally intended to be the alternative to a normal Win-condition. Sadly, they degenerated into simple ways to level-up and therefore, they lost all meaning all together. I would say that most of the missions were actually too-easy to fulfill. I also should've made missions a bit tougher to accomplish, but I really had (and still have) no idea how I would reinforce missions any further. Missions were a pain in the ass to keep track of, and when you are trying to keep up with a ton of other things, everything easily became a train-wreck early-game. I would NOT recommend this concept to any host who isn't prepared to be working on an update for more than 6 or more hours. ESPECIALLY if they plan on using the Level-Up system.

    Open-Alliances: This was to be the reinforcing factor to building relationships within the game. Back-stabs were to become a big deal in this game due to these. But as the saying goes, plans that you make never end up working the way you envisioned them. This was probably the concept that faired the worst in the game. Partly because it was a mission, and partly because it was too fucking hard to keep track of who was aligning with who. The reason this probably became a problem was because some players decided to abuse the system that was set up in order to just gain Experience Points. And to be quite honest, the system was set up in a way that this could be easily done. A way I think that it could've been a bit more tougher to abuse would be to give out only 1 expo point for whichever player would "lead" the alliance. Another way it could've been done was to restrict the creation of alliances by preventing players from being in more than 1-2 alliance at a time. The Open-Alliance system would've been more successful this way, and most likely would've been much more easier to work with. This concept I would recommend only in an environment where these changes would be reinforced.


    I really am too lazy to comment on the players and their roles. So for now, here are the links to the roles and the spreadsheet.
    Spreadsheet
    Role PMs Doc


    My biggest comments in reflection to this entire game are the following:

    -I should've not been lazy before starting this game and should've just made completed Role PMs with the abilities much more elaborated in order to prevent so much confusion.
    -I should've been more concise and to the point about alliances, though to be quite honest I didn't want to reveal too much pre-game or early-game about those.
    -Don't give Blue_Tornado such a fucking good role set-up ever again. The Bard was actually overpowered early-game. I should've given that Dark Breath to a different role (maybe the Berserker?). He was able to take out smashlloyd20 with little help C0, and that, my friends, would've never happened had the item been in different hands.
    -I should've started this game at least 2-3 weeks later than when I originally started it.
    -Next time, I will find another co-host who is willing to share more work with me and isn't afraid to ask me questions. Johann, I honestly am sorry about everything, but I do admit, good call on getting UncleSam to take over your position. You were able to find a good substitute, so I salute you on that (though you should've just let me know about everything ahead of time so that the transition would've been MUCH smoother.
    -This is probably the first mafia game where there were a total of 4 hosts (1 of which goes inactive in favor of a sub).

    So now for awards:
    Best Troll: kingofkongs
    Best Comeback: Lady Salamence
    Biggest Fail: vonFiedler setting himself up for a win, but biting the dust in the end
    Biggest Gamebreaker: vonFiedler alliance blitzing C0
    Best Luck: Daenym/imperfectluck
    Worst Luck: Wild Eep (claiming Mage when most other roles were "Wizard" wasn't too bright an idea)
    Most-Deserved Win: Flamestrike (because he stayed 'till everyone of his mates was ready to win)/Blue_Tornado (because Flame insisted)
    Least-Deserved Win: Yeti
    Most Open-Alliances: Wild Eep

    Feel free to add more to the list if you notice any I missed.

    When leaving your comments here, please let me know how you felt about the three major experimental concepts in this game and whether or not you would change them (not to mention how you would change them as well).

    Edit: Also, @ Unclesam, I'd say that a lot of this could've worked if my timing was better. I picked a bad time for myself and others to host the game, thus the reason we had such a clusterfuck early-game.
  2. UncleSam

    UncleSam

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,934
    This game should've been significantly simpler. Level-ups should have been automatic upon the completion of each cycle, and I agree with Acklow that he should have prepared what happened on each level up. Alliances were a complete waste of time in my opinion and only made things more difficult, as was the experience setup. I'm glad I was able to help this game finish, but please remember something in the future, hosts (Acklow or otherwise): more complexity does not necessarily make a game better.

    Ultimately this was just a simple "find your two enemies before they find you and kill them" game with HP if you think about it, yet so much effort needed to be put into the experience system that updates took three to four hours the first few cycles (and I was on vacation from Cycle 3 until Cycle 6 or so).

    Many thanks to Quagsires for picking up the extra slack, and props to Acklow for sticking it out and finishing the game. Just don't make your next one such a burden :(
  3. Flamestrike

    Flamestrike

    Joined:
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    I liked the EXP system, though I do agree that it was really complicated and probably needs to be fine-tuned. I'll post more detailed thoughts in a bit, but I'm wondering why I got most deserved win compared to B_T who was the brains in our alliance (as evidenced by how it fell apart when he won lol)
  4. Daenym

    Daenym

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2008
    Messages:
    666
    Best luck? Offensive. Accurate, though.

    And "Kraken" definitely only has 2 Ks in it. *thumbs*

    Levelup: Definitely cool in concept, but obviously a bit on the easy side to hit your max. Something like 7-10 people must've hit level 4 by the start of C3, right?

    Missions: Other than the pc++ missions, I don't have too many complaints. I wasn't a huge fan of my "get X items at once" missions, however, because it meant I couldn't even entertain the idea of "soloing" the game. I got into a great alliance anyway, but yeah.

    Open Alliances: Stupid, sorry. I was in CID with Cape, and would've been in AM with Eep, had he not screwed me. Both of my enemies. Ridiculous.

    100% agreed with Sam's comments about complexity.

    Edit:
    And yeah, BT's item should've been given to a non-MP-using role initially (or done less damage (or damage based on his level)), since him being able to blast Smash on C0 was just unfair.

    Edit More:
    Looking over all of the Unique Missions, it's a good thing that they were voided as a win condition. Mine were easy enough assuming a competent alliance, but some of them were just cruel. Trainer, for instance, would've been incapable of winning until the start of C5 at least, and that's not even the worst.
  5. theangryscientist

    theangryscientist

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2008
    Messages:
    631
    this game was pretty fun, all things considered

    experience - levelling up is a great concept in a game like this that has stats, but the enormous amount of work involved in keeping up with everyone's exp and levels kinda makes the exp system itself unwieldy; UncleSam's suggestion of having automatic level-ups would help this tremendously

    missions - basically just a huge set of alt win conditions that players had to fulfill at least some of; these were too complicated overall imo

    open alliances - interesting concept, but poorly implemented in this game; as is, it's just a way to level up more quickly. limiting the alliances a player can be in and giving them more incentive to work with that alliance would make this work a lot better

    this game was smooth sailing for me; flamestrike and his allies pretty much did all my work for me, and all i had to do was help kill off HD and take out lady_salamence once i'd traded flamestrike my magemash for her identity
  6. HD

    HD

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,408
    [21:30] <HD_AFK> also ipl was the first person i talked to
    [21:30] <HD_AFK> i demand worst luck

    Missions was imo an entirely superfluous feature seeing as you have WCs and they're just there for exp. gain.

    I like the leveling up/experience system due to the fact it adds variety, but there should've either been a better exp gain system or just automatic level up.

    Alliances: Horrible - just a way to get exp as the alliances didn't connect you in anyway other than name (I was in an alliance with ipl weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee). Also I hate free for alls simply on the basis of them being free for all.
  7. Yeti

    Yeti

    Joined:
    May 8, 2009
    Messages:
    1,848
    The combination of never-ending C0 or C1 or whatever the mess it was the first cycle and the fact I prefer playing faction games led to my lost interest in the game.. I honestly can't remember what other factors made me forget the game was even going on but I am not a fan of unicycle games either.. I always forget to lynch and night action.

    C0 I was fairly into it, I figured I had a good combo of letters seeing as I had E, the most common, to get into alliances. Von approached me about some good players only alliance where we'd all be really good and win but then after the first cycle kept dragging on none of them ever contacted me, then I guess ipl betrayed it or something.

    I don't remember how many cycles I actually sent an idle PM or idled simply by never clicking the game thread.. regardless not the best means of winning.

    Part of the problem was I've never played any FF game for more than 5 minutes on an emulator so I had no idea what any of this was.. thus I didn't get I couldn't use my item because I had no MP, nor was I even sure it WAS an item because I wasn't sure wtf the Abilities exactly were.. anyway I didn't really know what was happening so I sat around doing nothing most of the game.

    I was also hesitant to reveal I had a hooking item and pass it around.. I thought I was supposed to receive some items on the first cycle but didn't. So my interest and understanding of wtf was going on declined. I also somehow missed US's post that you had to get to Level 4 to win. I made it to Lv3 somehow during the course of the game but I never got the damage-doing ability so I was highly confused on how I was supposed to do anything.

    Then there were those specific missions like eliminate people I got when I hit Lv2 and that was a clustertruck of mediocrity lol did anyone know wtf was going on with those??

    I'd reply whenever people PMed me on IRC to talk but nobody ever knew who my enemy was.. most people didn't even believe The Caller was in the game and I certainly had no freakin clue what sort of chap he even was. WildEep had PMed me on Smogon about my letters and I was tentative about replying to him, then forgot, and now I wish I had because he could have gotten me into a good alliance and I might not have lost interest working with them like I did.

    Fortunately, my future MUDS cohost (crap I have to write those PMs don't I, sorry man I'm so bad @ slacking but I came home with a gnarly cold so give me a few days) kingofkongs bailed me out.

    I skimmed the updates and when Paperblade died and I noticed the guy who needed me dead was gone I thought oh, convenient, ok. Figured I might have a shot so I tried to pay a little more attention but I was still pretty lost.. anyway Terradoofus got me poison and burned and I was like 8[] u suck then he tried to lynch me but I got my bro kok to help so Terradumb died lol.

    Then as it turns out there was a role PM error, and the guy who ACTUALLY needed me dead was Terrador. And kok wasn't sure who his enemy was but thought it was ginganinja so he threw some mess at him and welp, ginga took the hit.

    I pointed out on IRC I was probably the only schmuck who won not at Lv4 which got the cohosts in a tizzy since apparently you couldn't win not at Lv4.. and they determined I was indeed not at Lv4! Fortunately thanks to my ability I'd survive on to vote to help my buddy kok who threw me a bone by aiming wrong and win regardless. lol.......

    I really should have subbed out but there were no subs (they all became hosts instead LOL) so I had to idle on. I played pretty poorly and my win was really a fluke.. not sure how it happened except kok and his bros are bros, glad kok won too he was a trufax bro he deserved his win. This wasn't my best game but endgames are always my specialty so that's where I came through.. with a gd fair bit of help from the misdirected kok.

    Levels: useless. It seemed like a chore to have to get four levels in order to do damage, for my role, and was part of why I lost interest. After getting to Lv2 it just seemed like too many exp so I stopped caring.

    Missions: some of them were ok but some were just confusing and didn't really help to further the game in any way. The pc++ were obnoxious seeing some crap about idling hosts being good everywhere but some were good ideas in theory to faciliate item movement and lynching, etc. however it seemed like an awful lot of work to keep track of successes and exp, etc. with a lot of room for error. So more trouble than it's worth? Quite possibly.

    Open Alliances: wtf was the point of this?? Like I was really not sure what this was for.. make words but how do you know your enemy isn't in the word with you? (sort of like FE2 where you had someone you could trade items with who wasn't any enemy to you, to confirm you could be safe) idk alliances just served to be confusing and a lot of PMs sent.

    Props to Acklow for finishing the game despite the rough start, and Quags/US for stepping in to help him. This was a good concept but the actual execution and how the experimental elements turned out to function was probably not what you were hoping for at all, plus the stalled beginning didn't help matters. I've found a game that sticks to its update schedule consistently and doesn't have day+ delays is a lot more likely to keep people active and invested, so the four+ hours it took to update with the missions wasn't any great benefit either.

    There's some lessons to be learned from this game definitely, and it's not an utterly horrid concept, but there is definitely retooling required if anyone wants to reuse the elements from this.

    also
    kok the bro
  8. Flamestrike

    Flamestrike

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2009
    Messages:
    849
    Alright, let's see how well I can pick my memory.

    C0: I was on when the game first started, getting me into the alliance blitz. von got me into quite a few word alliances and I managed to get into a few on my own as well, setting me up well EXP-wise. However, I wasn't content with that, and realized that if I truly wanted to win I needed some true allies. I wasn't very confident in following von; though most of that post about him being the puppetmaster was BS to try for the pc++ missions, I still didn't like the idea of being under his thumb. So I contacted B_T, and we traded enemy info and knew that we didn't need each other dead. He talked to IPL and they let me into their alliance. As the cycle dragged on we gathered more info and added more people. B_T found out that von needed me dead, which was a real facepalm moment for me seeing as he was arguably the best-situated player at that time not in our alliance, and we found out most people's role names and targets. We added Daenym because he was a thief which we figured would be useful, Hydrattler because he was Black Wizard and could take advantage of B_T's MP transfer, and aska because he was another thief (thief monopoly woo). B_T had found out that smash needed him dead, so we lynched him and used the Dark Breath on him, a mistake seeing as the breath alone would have killed, but it didn't matter too much. I sold Lady Salamence out to tas in exchange for the Magemash, which I knew would be useful for taking down the White Wizard, and IPL convinced Lady Salamence to send the Double Lance to me.

    C1: At this point we added LifeAdmiral to the alliance, since we learned that he needed WildEep dead like Daenym (I think we may have also known by this point that KE was the White Wizard, who needed Life dead, so that worked out well). We nailed three targets this cycle with the lynch: Eep, HD (who was stabbed by IPL the previous cycle and thus needed to die ASAP) and pok101, who we learned was B_T's enemy and was also an easy rand target.

    C2: ginganinja became the final member of our alliance after subbing in for Tsuk, since he already had his enemy dead he was a good fit though it did mean that we had to find a way to kill Yeti. This is where B_T made his only real mistake by finishing off cape (who had been hit C0) with the Dark Breath to finish him off while we lynched pok, Eep, and HD. Except we ended up hitting pok for almost no damage, leaving him alive while Eep and HD died, giving IPL and (arguably worse) Daenym wins. While losing IPL only meant losing his voting power (which admittedly was quite high) losing Daenym reduced our ability to control items and his Mug which would have been 3 free damage a cycle. Oh well.

    C3: At this point B_T was annoyed that we had not killed pok the cycle before like we were meant to, and so we set out to right that wrong. We also set out sights on von; we knew we couldn't leave him alive for long else he'd find me out and go after me, so we decided to throw everything we had at him. Terrador helped us out bigtime here by persuading Yeti to vote von as well as continuing his own crusade against him, and with a 6 damage lynch, Hydra's Asper, aska's Mug, and the poison damage von had already accrued, we managed to take him down (though he did hit me for 2 damage before going down, but that was no big deal with 17 HP). marky also died leaving aska with just one enemy, and pok died allowing B_T to win, maybe not the best thing seeing as things started going to hell as soon as he did so. Now up till this point IPL and I had passed the Double Lance back and forth, with him passing it to me before he won. So I passed it to our next strongest attacker, aska.

    C4: This is where mistakes started happening and where those of us in the alliance that lost most likely lost the game. First of all, aska decided that he could easily win at this point and went all-out on Ditto, using both votes and his Mug on him, ditching us and sealing his fate as Ditto survived and got KoK (aka the scourge of our alliance) to kill him in two cycles. Meanwhile, we lead our lynch on Paperblade, not having the attack power to lynch two people without aska's help. We SHOULD have gone after KoK at this point, who was a much larger threat, but I figured that if GoldenKnight won we'd know what to expect from Yeti, making it easier to kill her. Cycle ends, tas and GK have won, and I'm expecting my Double Lance back...

    C5: ...except aska doesn't send it back to me for whatever ridiculous reason. This hurts our voting power yet again, as it rots away on the unable-to-vote aska. We throw everything we have at Yeti, hoping that we can kill her even though she wasn't halved. Unfortunately ginga gets killed by KoK, and we don't even manage to kill Yeti. aska is also finished off, leaving the final 5.

    C6: I realize instantly that the easiest way for Life and me to win is to simply take down KE. However, I had asked Life to half KoK, so I figured it'd be easy enough to take him down first, then concentrate on KE. Unfortunately, due to an idle when he should have restored MP, Life wasn't able to half KoK, so we would have had to deal with him at full health. I decided that I didn't want to risk my win, and so I went after KE. After the game I realized that assuming Life's half had higher priority than Asper, we could have killed KoK if Life cooperated, but KE probably would have interfered, which would have screwed us over. So Hydra fell as well, leaving our alliance 5/8 for winners.

    I'm really curious as to what happened with Life's MP. He was supposed to get the Goldpin from B_T before B_T won, which would have halved the MP cost of his spells, and according to B_T he should have been able to half right away as opposed to recharging first, which could have made a difference.

    Props to B_T and IPL for letting me into the alliance and gathering lots of info, and the rest of the alliance for being cool dudes in general (ginga I will get that Nuzlocke update done sometime, promise!), and to KoK and Ditto for arguably being the only other winners that had to do their work for themselves (both of GK's enemies were enemies of someone in the alliance and were taken out mostly by us, and tas admitted that we also did most of the work for him lol). Slops to aska for being impatient and costing himself the win and to KoK for annihilating our alliance. Apologies to Lady Salamence for stealing her item and selling her out, and to ginga and Hydrattler for not getting you guys a win when really there was no reason for us to not all get it before everything fell apart.

    Still waiting for justification for me being most deserved win Acklow!
  9. little gk

    little gk <Birkal> I will quit everything I do on smogon
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    yeah i didn't do shit in this game, i remember telling aska a couple of times that i was the least deserving winner in the game!

    i started out doing well enough in the alliance dash and got some offer to join von/ipl/aska/yeti in some alliance but that obviously failed and i lost interest in the game as the hosts kinda sucked early and my only role the entire game was one that negated damage taken (the one i got at level 4 can't possibly count since i never used it!)

    i spent the next cycle or so not giving a crap and eep let me in his alliance right before it died, but that got me some free xp and gave me brownie points with aska when i told him ditto didn't know who his enemies were or something

    i was talking to aska most of the time i was playing and it turned out that his alliance was doing all the work for me, so i guess it worked!

    at least i won ff3 and ff5!!!

    oh and sorry acklow :x
  10. Ditto

    Ditto /me huggles
    is a Tournament Directoris a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

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    First off, let it be known that I subbed into the role of Mimic. It was not given to me or anything.

    T0: I sub in for the interwebs who has idiotically given ipl my complete role PM and down almost no work to get alliances together. Luckily Eep has promised me beforehand that we would try our best to work together in this game if I got the chance to sub in. Learning both his enemies T0, he let me into his little alliance without any hesitation. I trade Eep the sought after Mini Grenade that interwebs promised to about 3 or 4 different people. ipl told me that pok101 needed me dead.

    T1: I leveled up T0 and got my only ability of the game, Mimic. "Mimic - Copies Target USER's last Activated Ability. If Target USER doesn't have an Activated Ability, this ability fails. The copied ability may be used once (regardless of whether there is a MP cost or not)." An extremely useful ability if I had the correct targets. After hearing that LifeAdmiral had the ability to inspect people I decided that I would use him for my first Mimic target. All the while I vote for pok101 in order to slowly kill him.

    T2: I had an okay amount of info from people at this point and LifeAdmiral said that he thought marky might have been my enemy. So I decide to use my scan ability to check him. I figured that I would still need more info, especially since I might be able to help the people in my alliance with it if marky was indeed my enemy, so I Mimic LifeAdmiral once again. Again voting for pok101.

    T3: At this point I had narrowed down my enemies to Flamestrike, Lady Salamence, or askaninjask. I decided to Scan Flamestrike because he had seemed to think we were enemies based off a convo we had. I figured I had enough info at this point that I no longer needed LifeAdmiral's Scan ability, so I instead targeted vonFiedler who I knew was the Samurai. I had assumed that he had some damaging ability, so I wanted to copy it so that I may kill my remaining enemy after pok101 died that turn.

    T4: It turns out that Flamestrike is not my enemy. I assumed that if aska was my enemy, he would have done more to kill me by now, so I assume that Lady Salamence is my enemy. However, aska decides to vote for me this turn and confirmed that he was my enemy instead. I had gotten vonFiedler's Sword Slap, which allowed me to negate one action the target used. aska seemed confident that he had this won, so I decided to double target him with Sword Slap and Mimic. I figured I would get a damaging ability and negate him from using one. Because kok had not figured out his enemies yet, he decided to help me and hit aska for 9 damage.

    T5: Unfortunately aska survived, but I had not taken any damage which was good. I had gained aska's Capture ability and was able to do 3 damage to him. I figured that this would bring him close to death after kok's assault. I had most of the enemy list figured out at that point and narrowed down kok's enemies to either ginganinja or Hydrattler. kok decided to attack ginganinja to see. I decided to Mimic ginganinja just in case aska didn't die to hopefully gain a stronger damaging action. With 15 minutes to deadline, there were only 2 lynch targets. I decided that I would then lynch aska because no one else was choosing someone and kok decided to join in. In the end I hoped I killed aska with his own technique, but am still unsure. Either way I won. ^_^

    Overall: While I had an amazing ability in Mimic, I had only 1 attack and 7 HP the entire game, and in fact gained nothing upon reaching level 4. I was fairly vulnerable I felt, especially after seeing that Flamestrike had 4 attack and could have killed me in 2 lynches by himself. I guess I got lucky in that I didn't have too many enemies it seems because even the slightest team against me could have killed me. Mimic was an awesome ability and I feel I used it really well too. I also just like how I happened to sub into the role that was perfect for me.
  11. Blue_Tornado

    Blue_Tornado

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
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    long (open)
    [​IMG]

    -- a watermelon's review --

    Let's see.. how did I begin? "Don't do anything you did in FE2", pretty much. As a result, I was planning on being there when the game starts and immediately talk to anyone and everyone, getting as much info as possible and quickly forming an absulute-trust alliance. Of course, that never happened since Racklow decided to start early without any notice, and I found myself waking up 4 hours after the game started.

    To make a long story short: I talked to IPL about an alliance, talked to Life to arrange a little vow of silence between the two of us, got myself into plenty of word alliances and arranged others, went on an info frenzy thanks to IPL's and Daenym's (?) Melee/Magic concept thing, then settled down when our sheet was pretty much loaded and IPL got motivated to go on his own info frenzy. That was pretty much the first 12 hours in a nutshell, there really is much much to talk about and I don't plan on making this an impossibly huge post.

    Day 2 (of playing, not D2) I talked to Flame, which IPL noted along with Daenym as good choices for the alliance (he wanted to do one with the two of them originally), and got him into our alliance. IPL then talked to Daenym (thief), Hydrattler (Black Wizard) and finally aska (daenym clone aka thief #2). I was a bit angry about the Hydrattler decision since Life was a perfect fit between Daenym and Flame, and Hydra took the 'magic user #2' spot, instead of him, at that time. Of course, I wanted Life into our alliance to avoid future crossfire, and we eventually got him in, and out of a possible alliance with Terrador, Paperblade and tas, I think. I think tas was more individual but one of his contacts nonetheless.

    Oh and Life and eventually ginga joined too.

    So our sheet was pretty much full (during C0's original deadline, which is telling a lot) minus info of inactives and the mix up between the Red and Blue Knights the hosts revealed at, like, C1. We ended up controlling all the lynches and deaths up to my leave, and we would have controlled most if not all items were C0 a little shorter (it gave people time to change their minds.. I would have gotten interwebs' and paperblade's items otherwise). Seeing that, I may as well talk about people in order of death/win.

    Smashlloyd20: I was in a frenzy of getting as much info from as many players as humanly possible, and Smash was above average for hiding his info, so I eventually got him to reveal that his enemy was a mixed-class role that starts with B.. needless to say, I had found my enemy, and IPL or Life (or both, idr) had confirmed it for me afterwards. Just to make sure the 6dmg was enough, I got a few people lynching him, which resulted in 10dmg overall. Pretty good for C0 I'd say.

    HD: IPL found him all alone (by swapping PMs, no less!), and two consecutive lynches made quick work of him. IPL did such a good job he even got BOTH his items. That's mighty impressive.

    Wild Eep: He was moderately hesitant with giving away info until I told him he likely won't get anywhere if he doesn't establish full-blown alliances (for the sake of getting info out of him, as that is after all mandatory for getting closer to people). Of course, that didn't get me anywhere stunning and made him make his alliance, which turned out to be the other alliance worth calling a threat. Of course Daenym didn't want him to live long and, along with his head-of-an-alliance thing, he became a priority to get rid of. And, along with HD, he was dead after two lynches.

    capefeather: I got to talk to him rather early, and found out for IPL that he was the one after the Monk. That pressed IPL and Daenym to get a lynch on him C0. I let him think that the two of us along with aska would make a good triplet around C0, just to get his spell item, which he didn't end up giving to aska because of the stupidly long extensions... Herein also lies my (arguably) only mistake itg:

    [00:03] <&Flamestrike> except it wasn't your fault at all that ipl and daenym left
    01[00:03] <~Blue_Tornado> uh
    01[00:03] <~Blue_Tornado> yes it was
    [00:03] <&Flamestrike> remember?
    01[00:03] <~Blue_Tornado> i killed cape
    01[00:03] <~Blue_Tornado> with the spell
    [00:03] <&Flamestrike> well yeah, but had we not mucked up the lynch at least daenym would have stuck around
    01[00:03] <~Blue_Tornado> the idea was 'we win together as a trio to look cool'
    [00:04] <&Flamestrike> lol
    01[00:04] <~Blue_Tornado> and for whatever retarded reason i went with it
    01[00:04] <~Blue_Tornado> well the lynches were logical, really
    01[00:04] <~Blue_Tornado> eep was a threat
    01[00:04] <~Blue_Tornado> hd was a threat because he knew he was stabbed
    01[00:05] <~Blue_Tornado> they could have probably stayed until the very end had we set a principle
    01[00:05] <~Blue_Tornado> that we all eject at around even times
    [00:05] <&Flamestrike> that would have helped

    Daenym: Very active, got work done, he thought he had eep deceived for a while until eep told me himself that he's only pretending to have a good relationship with him. That's when we decided to take eep out as early as we did. Not much else to say- he was helpful and active. Good teammate.

    imperfectluck: He wasn't exactly full of motivation at the very beginning, mostly because of the stupid little 'quests', but he eventually got into it and got hold of a handful of role PMs. Really, I did get plenty of info myself, but a lot of info was lacking and he really patched up any and all 'grey spots' that happened to be on the sheets, which were plenty. He also found out pok for me, who never got on so it would have been hard for me to find him otherwise. He was very efficient and was actually the one to convince me to kill cape that early. I don't see why he isn't getting the praise he deserves.

    markyguila: He was inactive and aska's enemy (albeit he was found out rather late), he was never a priority until von and some others started a lynch on him and we decided to take advantage of it. I don't know what damage he took beforehand to die like that, probably von's work or something.

    pok101: "Ask Johann". Honestly, really inactive and a very easy target. His death was delayed by some of the most stupid shit I'd ever seen (I think its name was terrador).

    vonFiedler: He always 'seemed' to be well-set and threatening, and needless to say, if that were true we'd need to get rid of him early. C3 I decided it was about time to get rid of the 'threats to the alliance', following the death of eep. Ditto was supposed to be the next target but I'll have more on that later... Back to story, 6 lynch damage and 6 indirect damage was all that was needed, and it made Flame (and GK) a very happy man.

    Lady Salamence: Hmm? Nothing really comes to mind. We used his/her/its vote a couple times, and got that all-important vote doubler item too. A complete blank otherwise. Only reason I don't know anything is because I wasn't the cause of his death, but tas attacking him twice @_@

    Paperblade: We decided to get rid of paper at that time (or rather, that's what I told them before I left a cycle earlier) because Hydra still had both his enemies alive, and he seemed like a threat. Nothing else, really. Life was a good way to manipulate him for a short while.

    GoldenKnight: He was a perfect fit for the alliance, but he wasn't in it. As a result, he won by doing absolutely nothing. Meep.

    theangryscientist: We killed HD. We told him about LS. Another meep. Also might be worth a mention that we told him to target KoK as part of an agreement that he.. agreed on. I admitted that it seemed strange for him because it was easy enough to use it on LS and win (which he ended up doing), but honestly, if you weren't going to do that all along, all you had to do was say 'no'.

    Terrador14: What a waste of space. He no less than completely redirected the C2 lynch to himself, and for absolutely no reason. That's right- neither he or his 'allies', if they existed at all, had a reason to kill von, mainly because it was Flame and GK (which we were pretty sure was not related to him in any way at all) who needed him dead. Instead, he gets me angry for no reason by stopping the pok lynch. Way to go idiot.

    ginganinja: A late recruit to the alliance. As a result of N4, Ditto-KoK-co. suddenly became threats and rather easily took both him and aska out. It seemed like ginga was targeted for the wrong reasons, add to that. :(

    askaninjask: A second thief gave us a monopoly on items no less, and he had good offense as well. He was active enough and.. helpful I guess. Then he decided it was a good idea to act up and go for the win, which apparently included giving yourself away to the other strongest party itg. Why I'm mad about this? With you, ginga's spell and Hydra's ability we had 9 indirect damage overall, excluding Life's HP/MP halve. Ditto started with 5 HP. Simple math. -_-

    Ditto: And interwebs was so easy to manipulate.. sigh. His item was supposed to be mine if not for the subbing. Played well I guess, especially from the position of subbing in. Deserved win, although had aska not been a complete idiot you would have lost easily.

    King Emerald: Flame and Life wanted to get him for a long, long while, and they eventually succeeded in that. Life became greedy and targeted him non-stop, that's my assumption at least. Not much else.

    Hydrattler: Never did anything wrong. He had some useful utilities and got a useful damage/heal ability in the end. When things fell apart in the end, he got the short straw. Nothing else, really.

    kingofkongs: He was supposed to die C4. Things fell apart and he ended up.. not dying. Sigh, I really wish I had stayed to keep the alliance together, things should have been so easy. I have to say, the fact we hadn't anticipated your broken role at all also played a big part, which is sad.

    LifeAdmiral: Was key to manipulating some other players, rather active and was.. actually pretty useless until his MP/HP halve, which ended up not working very well for whatever reasons. Had things worked like a clock he should have been able to use it every night, and we'd have lynched the one he targeted for an almost assured KO.

    Flamestrike: You really, really shouldn't be blaming yourself for ginga/hydra's fall. Really, it wasn't your fault, it was actually pretty expected that the alliance would fall apart like that, sort of like what happened in fe2 around n4-d5. I'm actually willing to take all the blame due to getting myself and IPL out of the game that early. Played well and got his win in the end.

    Yeti: Almost forgot about her! Nothing big comes to mind, I'm pretty sure we used her vote here and there and I tried keeping somewhat in touch so we could do even more. Ended up winning because someone accidentally got her enemy @_@


    I'm not going to go overboard here, well I might have already went overboard but I had so much MORE to talk about, it's not even funny. Overall I'm really sorry for the rest of the alliance (bar aska) for leaving like that and making daenym/ipl leave like that, I think we all played well otherwise.

    a sheet
  12. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
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    lol I think I could be in the running for worst luck.

    Regardless I never really got into this game. I knew Yeti was my enemy after subbing into B_Ts alliance but could not really damage her. Basically I sat back and helped others till people were in a better stage to help me. The Ironic thing was

    [14:01] <&Flamestrike> hmm
    [14:01] <&Flamestrike> would you mind terribly if you ended up sticking around one more cycle?
    [14:02] <&Flamestrike> i'd like to get everyone down to one enemy
    [14:02] <&Flamestrike> and we don't have the lynch power to run two lynched
    [14:02] <&Flamestrike> *lynches
    [14:02] <&Flamestrike> since someone has decided to be impatient :(
    [14:04] <&ginganinja> ugh o.k

    Then I died during the next cycle :/

    I liked the unique aspects to this game I guess but I think lacking any way to deal damage (without items or the help of someone else) made me not be as interested in the game as I could have been.
  13. vonFiedler

    vonFiedler GAMG GRGAK
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    BT, how did you find out that I was Samurai?
  14. Blue_Tornado

    Blue_Tornado

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    IPL did. Rather early on, in fact.
  15. Lady Salamence

    Lady Salamence
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    Which begs the question. IPL, how did you find terrador was my enemy, like n0?
  16. Johann

    Johann

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    I'm still the best.
  17. LifeAdmiral

    LifeAdmiral

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    I want to comment on some stuff pretty quickly.

    I never got the Gold Hairpin. I can check my PMs but I'm very sure of this fact. Therefore, I had to wait until I was back at 7 MP to use my HP/MP halve skill. But both of them that I used were aimed at KE. Lemme check my orders...

    C2 - Arctic Wind on Terra (sorry mate, 4 MP used, now at 8/12)
    C3 - Halve KE (7 MP, 1/12 MP)
    C4 - Idle (I hadn't been on IRC for a while and was waiting for Acklow to send back results dating from C1 because I wasn't getting full role PMs for my Check skill. Acklow ended up sending these after deadline so no action was in. Gained 3 MP from BT along with a level up for 5/14)
    C5 - Restore 4 MP (9/14 MP total)
    C6 - Halve KE again (2/14 MP)


    With regards to Ditto (or really, anyone who wasn't in the ipl/BT alliance), I spread out a lot of false info. A lot. I think that's why KoK was so misguided with his shurikens.


    And yeah, I'll comment more when I'm not hungry.


    EDIT: Changed my MP figures after looking at the result PMs. No Gold Hairpin received.
  18. Ditto

    Ditto /me huggles
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    I don't see how I was easily manipulated really. The only thing I did that you had remotely any influence over was changing my vote on T4.

    Again, I don't see where there was a lot of false info. In regards to me, the info you gave me was enough to narrow it down to askaninjask and Lady Salamence C4. And KoK only missed his intended target once, with ginganinja. He knew full well that aska wasn't his enemy and decided to help me. And then it was simply being narrowed down to ginganinja and Hydrattler and him guessing the wrong one.
  19. Blue_Tornado

    Blue_Tornado

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    I thought it was pretty clear that I was referring to interwebs, not you. (I was pointing at the huge difference between you two, mainly..)

    Also Life, I remember you told me C3(?) that you had 8 MP, 1 MP after a use of the Hammer Missile or w/e. I had passed my 3 MP so you'd have 4 MP, which was enough for one use with the Gold Pin accounted for. And Hydra(?) said he sent the PM to pass it over, so I see nothing but a host error. I don't see why you guys didn't check, though...
  20. Ditto

    Ditto /me huggles
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    Oh okay. The "And" made me curious. Yeah interwebs was gullible as fuck apparently. Luckily if I subbed in for him it was T0 when he wasn't able to get me in even greater shit.
  21. LifeAdmiral

    LifeAdmiral

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    I'm using my max MP count (14 but with math mistakes due to changing the amount of max MP I had at certain points) at the end of the game. I also completely forgot that you gave me MP but I still had to recharge.

    As I said above, never received the Gold Hairpin. Maybe Acklow/Quag/Sam can expand on this?
  22. kingofmars

    kingofmars
    is a Past SPL Winneris a VGC2 Winner

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    And I finally get back from camp....

    Anyways, let me touch on a couple of points. Early on, Eep and I realized that we could team up, and the first person we talked to was of course Daenym, who we shortly learned later was one of eep's enemies. We found this out by Eep's other enemy asking me to sell him out, to which I gave him misinformation. And then it turns out that he's an inspector, fantastic. Anyways, after that, we got eep to get some scouting for our alliance since he knew both of his enemies. By the end of C0, our full alliance consisted of me, eep, ditto, cape, and goldenknight. I remember thinking about how strong of a position I thought I was in since I had a 5 man alliance. We also tried to recruit B_T into it at one point. In order to try to persuade him more, I got Eep to warn him about IPL's alliance, which we didn't know at that point actually existed. ... Derp

    For a long period of time after eep and cape died, all I was focussed on was gaining exp and helping Ditto (since GoldenKnight was in a fairly decent position). After GK won, we knew we needed another man. After deliberating between flamestrike and yeti, we decided on yeti, who gave us some helpful information. I also told aska that I was "giving" him Excalibur in exchage for info about my remaining enemy. Then it turns out that Flavor decided to screw me up and told aska that it was thrown at him.

    When we got to top 5 (or 6 if you count yeti) I still wasn't damaged once, and I even had two protective shields. Flame pm'd me with a message saying "You stay out of our way, we stay out of yours" which I promply agreed to. Also, KEmerald still didn't realize who his enemies were, so I told him because he couldn't do shit anyways. Hydra then tried to make a last ditch effort to get me to lose, which I laughed at. He also thought that healing himself by 3 hp would somehow allow him to beat me.

    Also, for anyone wondering about the hermaphrodite thing, that was just my attempt at minor trolling, designed to just give people a good laugh and then dismiss it. Then Acklow told me that people were asking about the item, which gave me a good laugh. My awesome trolling also earned me a "K", which was pretty cool and stuff. Also,

    WUV YOU YETI

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