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Final Sun Team ✰

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Orb, Nov 25, 2012.

  1. Orb

    Orb

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2012
    Messages:
    22
    Angelo's Offensive OU Sun Team. The flames burn inside me, and must be unleashed on the enemy. Only the strong shall survive, and the weak shall perish. I've waited long for this moment, and it has finally presented itself. Whoever doesn't like the sun shall perish by its intense heat. Don't even try summoning opposing weather inducers, because they too will be crushed under the suns immense heat. Surrender yourself, or feel the wrath of Angelo's OU Sun Team. You have no choice!

    Team building process:


    [​IMG]
    The core of my team.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    My sun sweeper of choice joins in on the action.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I now have a very effective rapid spinner on my team.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Hitmontop is a good spinner, while standing up to Chansey. Espeon provides duel screen support.


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Cresselia provides additional support, while countering Mamoswine. Blissey sets up Stealth Rock, and provides Wish support.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Jirachi provides an offensive presence to my team, while setting up Stealth Rock, and passing along Wishes. Salamence is my late game sweeper, and Revenge Killer.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Heatran stands up to opposing Sun teams and Fire-Types. In addition, it sets up Stealth Rock. Garchomp is my Revenge Killer, and counters: Salamence, Landorus, +1 Volcarona, etc.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG](Team Update: December 9,2012)
    Seeing as how I didn't have much of a counter for bulky Psychic-Types such as: Deoxys-D, opposing Cresselia, Reuniclus, etc. I now have Terrakion as my Revenge Killer, and he knows X-Scissor.


    Ninetales @ Leftovers

    [​IMG]



    Ability: Drought
    EVs: 136 HP / 252 SpA / 120 Spe
    Nature: Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
    Name: Sunny Day
    Move-set: Sunny Day, Solar Beam, Will-O-Wisp, Flamethrower
    Additional Information:
    This set focuses on keeping the sun up as much as possible, while also good against weather wars. Will-O-Wisp also burns incoming physical attackers, thus crippling them.

    Heatran @ Leftovers

    [​IMG]


    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
    Nature: Calm
    Name: Specially Defensive
    Move-set: Stealth Rock, Lava Plume, Toxic, Earth Power
    Additional Information: Heatran is my counter towards opposing Fire-Type Pokemon, as well as certain rain threats such as Tornadus, and sub CM Jirachi. In combination with my Cresselia, powerful physical attacks aimed at my Heatran like Earthquake, and Hi Jump Kick, Cresselia is able to take Ground, Fighting, and Water-Type attacks all day thanks to the sun. I don't fear opposing Sun teams as much anymore. In addition, I don't fear
    Volcarona as I did when I had my Jirachi.
    (Note: I've replaced my Specially Defensive Jirachi for Heatran)

    Forretress @ Leftovers

    [​IMG]



    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD | IVs: 0 Spe
    Nature: Relaxed (+Def, -Spe)
    Name: Physically Defensive
    Move-set: Gyro Ball, Volt Switch, Spikes, Rapid Spin
    Additional information: Forretress is an excellent Pokemon with fantastic walling capabilities, it's good at setting up entry hazards, and has a good typing such as its competitor, Ferrothorn.
    I had Hitmontop on my team, but based on your feedback, I've decided to replace him for Forretress. Don't get me wrong, Hitmontop's a good rapid spinner, but in the OU environment, he's just outclassed by other spinners. Fire attacks aimed at my Forretress, will be absorbed by Heatran.
    (Note: I've replaced my rapid spinning Hitmontop for Forretress)

    Cresselia @ Leftovers

    [​IMG]



    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA

    Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
    Name: Support
    Move-set: Reflect, Psychic, Ice Beam, Moonlight

    Additional Information: Seeing as how Mamoswine was a huge threat to my sun team, based on your feedback, I've decided Cresselia would be a good counter for Mamoswine. Not only that, Moonlight in the sun heals 66% of Cresseli's HP which can also provide a bit of stalling in combination with my Heatran's Toxic. Finally, Ice Beam provides coverage against Dragon-Types and Gliscor, whereas Psychic is good against Fighting-Types.

    Venusaur @ Life Orb

    [​IMG]



    Ability: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 72 HP / 252 SpA / 180 Spe / 4 Def
    Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    Name: Special Growth
    Move-set: Growth, Giga Drain, HP Fire (70), Sleep Powder
    Additional information: You didn't think I was running an offensive OU sun team without a sweeper did you? Well, feast your eyes on my special growth sun sweeper. After a growth in the sun, Venusaur is basically unstoppable, and has very few counters. With Duel Screen support, my Venusaur's defensive capabilities exceed further. In the end, this dinosaurs wrath combined with its immense bulk, will always trouble opposing teams.

    (Note: I've removed Sludge Bomb for Sleep Powder)

    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf


    [​IMG][​IMG]



    Ability: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
    Name: Choice Scarf
    Move-set: X-Scissor, Close Combat, Stone Edge, Earthquake
    Additional information:
    Not only is Terrakion my Revenge Killer, but he's also a good counter for Chansey, Tyranitar, Latios, etc. Stab Stone Edge, and Close Combat coming off such a threatening Pokemon with 357 Attack, any Pokemon that doesn't resist this deadly combo will surely be taking a lot of damage. I chose Earthquake in the last slot, because of Heatran, and those pesky Electric-Types. Finally, X-Scissor covers bulky Psychic-Types. Something Garchomp did not cover.
    (Note: I've replaced my Revenge Killing Garchomp for Terrakion)

    Well, that's my sun team. I'm thinking of making my Ninetales a bit more specially defensive oriented in order for it to survive a bit longer, but I'd like to hear from you all first. Also, as mentioned above, I've recently replaced my specially defensive Jirachi for a specially defensive Heatran. Was this a good idea? If so, can you please explain? I no longer have wish support, but the question is, did my team really need it? Anyways, thank you for reading.I hope you all enjoy.

    My specially defensive Jirachi I removed:


    [​IMG]
    Ability: Sarene Grace
    Name: Specially Defensive
    Nature: Careful (+SpD, -SpA)
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
    Move-set: Wish, Iron Head, Body Slam, Stealth Rock


    Here is part of my Sun team in action. This is my battle with, Shofu:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnXy6rqdc8Q&feature=plcp
  2. Shiny Charizard

    Shiny Charizard

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2012
    Messages:
    46
    Team Rate

    Hey, nice team, it is well put together compared to some of the other sun teams I have seen. I only have a few suggestions for you.

    On Blissey, I suggest that you change Stealth Rock to Protect and Thunder Wave to Toxic. This way, you can use Protect to heal yourself with your own wish, if necessary, and you can pass by a turn of Toxic, one turn closer to the opponent's fall. Just so you have some entry hazards, I suggest that you change Toxic on Hitmontop, to Stealth Rock. That's all I got, nice job.

    (Sorry, I was watching a tournament battle with no hacks but I saw an SR Hitmontop. I figured it could learn it. My mistake!)

    -Best Wishes,
    Shiny Charizard
  3. tehy

    tehy

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,503
    I... don't believe hitmontop learns stealth rock. And i don't really think blissey needs much changing. I'd prefer softboiled over wish, though, since you're not running protect, which means you can be very easily worn down just by anything hitting you, then forcing you out by switching to, say, terrakion.

    I'm surprised you actually asked me to rate this via PM, because i'm not that good at rating teams, especially one such as this. If i were you, though, i'd replace toxic on hitmontop for foresight-if they're trying to wall you instead of spinblocking, well, mission accomplished, but if they're not, you can just foresight them and spin now, instead of toxic'ing them and stalling them out.

    To be honest, i feel like you should just let cresselia do the walling, and replace blissey with something that hits hard, like darminitan or victini.

    Edit: Youngjake, it's not attempting to stall with hitmontop. Toxic messes up any ghost that tries to spinblock. On the other hand, a lot of them can still spinblock you for an uncomfortably long time, and many stall teams also carry heal bell/aromatherapy. It's better to just spin on them, then leave.
  4. youngjake93

    youngjake93

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,548
    I suggested putting foresight>toxic as well, but it was deleted for not having an explanation... I thought it was self explanatory that I meant that spinning against ghosts> attempting to stall with hitmontop.
  5. Trinitrotoluene

    Trinitrotoluene what level does ninjask learn choice scarf?
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus
    Mentor

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    Alright. Received your request. Here I go.

    First off, nice sun team. However, I feel that there are a few modifications that can be made that will ease your time against the general OU metagame. For one, Modest Venusaur is not as effective against the OU metagame, which has an overwhelming focus on speed. Modest Venusaur also doesn't help against Choice Scarf Pokemon with a base speed of 108 or greater. To help against that, I'd recommend using a Timid nature and an EV spread of 72 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 180 Spe on your Venusaur. The Timid nature, in conjunction with the EVs, allows Venusaur to outpace Scarf Latios under the sun. The HP and Defense EVs assure the team that Adamant LO Mamoswine cannot OHKO Venusaur, even after switching into Stealth Rock, taking some pressure off Cresselia and Hitmontop to keep Mamoswine down. Also, I feel that Blissey just adds to a slight Terrakion vulnerability and gives you almost nothing in return. You have Gengar covered fairly well with Garchomp and Venusaur, so you don't exactly need it in there. However, what you do need is a bit of wall-breaking power, and I feel that tehy's suggestion of using Choice Band Victini over Blissey holds quite a bit of merit for your team. Most common stall teammates don't like taking a V-create in the sun, which really helps since none of your members carries enough power to bust stall teams up.

    Now, for some quick nitpicks. On Garchomp, I prefer using Dual Chop rather than Dragon Claw, because SubCM Latias is an otherwise tough threat for your team to deal with. Also, I think that you should take tehy's recommendation of Foresight over Toxic on Hitmontop, since Foresight is the main (if not the only) reason it's even used in OU in the first place. A summarized list of changes can be found below.

    Sets:
    [​IMG]
    Victini @ Choice Band | Victory Star
    Adamant | 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    V-create | Fusion Bolt | Brick Break | U-turn


    Nitpicks:
    • [​IMG] ----> [​IMG]
    • [​IMG]
      • Toxic ----> Foresight
    • [​IMG]
      • Dragon Claw ----> Dual Chop
    • [​IMG]
      • 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Modest ----> 72 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 180 Spe Timid

    Anyways, hope this helps. Good luck!
  6. undisputed

    undisputed
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Frontier Lackeyis a Past WCoP Winner

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    Hey!

    I got your PM, so I figured I'd stop by and drop you a rate. You've got a pretty good team as is. It's interesting to see a slightly more defensive take on Sun. Reminiscent of one of my friend's Sun Semi-Stalls. I don't think you have to change any Pokemon, but some small changes in the way your team functions could make a huge difference.

    First, let's fix up Blissey a little bit. I'm going to recommend that you drop Flamethrower for Seismic Toss and Stealth Rock for Softboiled. I'm not a big fan of Blissey without assured Recovery, and with Softboiled, you'll stay around a lot longer. You can consider Toxic over Thunder Wave too, but that's more of a personal choice. I'm a fan of Toxic, but Thunder Wave can have its uses, namely checking Sun Venusaur. Toxic is also more consistent with the rest of your team. Aside from moves, I think you should use 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Sp Def as your EVs. Blissey shouldn't worry about Special Attacks, so having the most Defense is always the best option. As an bonus, 252 HP increases the effect of your wishes.

    After that, change Ninetales' EV Spread to 248 HP / 56 Def / 68 SpD / 136 Spe with a Calm Nature. That's my custom spread I made from a while ago. Basically, 56 Def allows you to take Genesect U-turns with ease. Ninetales is already very specially defensive, so the Defense EVs are pretty valuable for making sure Tyranitar and Genesect are as little a pain as possible.

    Next, drop Sucker Punch on Hitmontop for Foresight. Sucker Punch from defensive Hitmontop is pretty much useless. I can't think of a situation off the top of my head where you'd wish you had it. Foresight on the other hand is great. Does your opponent have Stealth Rock up and a Ghost waiting in the wings? No one cares! Just use Foresight for some guaranteed Rapid Spins. Together with Blissey's Wish support, it's highly unlikely Stealth Rock will stay on the field. Since Hazards are pretty much Sun's biggest weakness, Foresight + Spin Hitmontop is huge.

    On Cresselia, use Calm Mind instead of Reflect. Reflect is kind of a waste in my opinion. It will only last for 5 turns, but Calm Mind will give you an end game option. Keep Psychic and Ice Beam because they're solid moves. Mid game you should use Ice Beam to fend of stuff like Landorus and Tornadus.

    Now, for my big suggestion. I think Sub Seed Venusaur could and would be really cool for your team. The moves are Substitute / Leech Seed / Sleep Powder / Hidden Power Fire. The on site EVs are bad in my opinion. My spread is: 248 HP / 136 Def / 4 Sp Def / 120 Spe with a Timid Nature. The Speed allows you to outpace Scarf Salamence and by extension Scarf Genesect. Essentially, with the Sun out, nothing is going to touch Venusaur for a long time. You Leech Seed stall anything that cannot OHKO Venusuar. Use Sleep Powder only when something that can OHKO you or poses a huge threat to the rest of your team.

    Finally, use Stealth Rock over Outrage or Dragon Claw. Your choice. Stealth Rock is necessity for your team, and since you have two dragon moves, you can afford to get rid of one. I'd probably drop Outrage because you shouldn't be recklessly Outraging with your Choice Scarf user. However, Outrage's extra power might come in handy. If you find yourself wanting more power, drop Dragon Claw, but if Outrage is trapping you too often, drop Outrage.

    Really good team you've got here. I'm probably going to steal it and try it out, haha.

    Good luck!
  7. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

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    Oct 22, 2006
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    1,801
    Hey this is a solid start to a sun team but I see some things you can fix to make it that much more efficient.

    First of all, you really need to have Timid Nature on venusaur if you're going to use it. The extra power from Modest isn't going to help you out that much when stuff like Scarf horses and Scarf latios outspeed you. It's also helpful if you are ever in a situation against something like a Jolly Breloom outside of sun.

    Your team definitely struggles to maintain momentum. Opponents can really take advantage of Garchomp locked into the wrong move, or Blissey/Hitmontop being sitting ducks in general.

    I definitely agree with the suggestion of giving hitmontop Foresight over Sucker Punch. With no attack investment, Sucker punch is not going to be doing enough damage to warrant a moveslot. However Foresight guarantees that you get off a rapid spin (unless they have multiple ghosts which in that case lol) if they bring in their ghost type on the Foresight.

    I would also replace Blissey for a Stealth Rocking Heatran. It adds an offensive presence to your team, while still being a decent check to some rain threats like Tornadus and sub CM jirachi. It does leave you more vulnerable to Dugtrio, but so did Blissey (even though it was to a lesser extent).
    spdef heatran (open)
    Heatran (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 244 HP / 252 SDef / 12 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Lava Plume
    - Stealth Rock
    - Roar
    - Toxic / Earth Power


    If you do not feel comfortable with that you could always put Stealth rock on Garchomp with an offensive Heatran with an air balloon. It's less vulnerable to rain teams and could definitely pull its weight with Sunny Day.
    offensive heatran (open)
    Heatran (F) @ Air Balloon Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 56 HP / 252 SAtk / 200 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Magma Storm
    - Sunny Day
    - SolarBeam
    - Hidden Power [Ice] / Taunt

    taunt could be used over hp ice if you want something to handle chansey better. You can usually beat it 1 on 1 if you are healthy enough and if you don't get para'd every turn if they carry Twave.
  8. Orb

    Orb

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2012
    Messages:
    22
    I'd like to thank everyone for their feedback. I did make some changes to my sun team, and I would like to share it with all of you. Trinitro, I did follow your advice in terms of changing the EVs on my Venusaur, as well as his nature. I also took out Toxic on my Hitmontop in exchange for Foresight. I decided to keep Sucker Punch, it's still a good counter for frail Ghost, and Psychic types such as Gengar, and Alakazam. I didn't need Toxic much at all, and the reason I had it in the first place was for Rotom-W. Blissey is no longer on my team, and I've switched her for Jirachi. Jirachi is doing an almost similar role as Blissey, except it's also able to provide a bit of offensive presence as well. My Jirachi is specially defensive. ♫ ♪

    The changes I've made are as follow:

    [​IMG]

    • 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Modest ----> 72 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 180 Spe Timid
    [​IMG]

    • Toxic ----> Foresight
    [​IMG]


    Ability: Sarene Grace
    Name: Specially Defensive
    Nature: Careful (+SpD, -SpA)
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
    Move-set: Wish, Iron Head, Body Slam, Stealth Rock
  9. Orb

    Orb

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2012
    Messages:
    22
    As of today, December 2nd, I've made some drastic changes to my sun team. I've updated this thread, so I'll go ahead and bump it. I can't wait for some feedback. :)
  10. cosmicfinch

    cosmicfinch

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Messages:
    50
    cool sun team.
    The one biggest issue I see is how frail Ninetales is. Especially to opposing weather inducers. In a normal battle nine is going to be slower than everything but Poli or T-tar, so I don't see the point in stacking its power.
    I cant help but notice your Venusaur would be better suited as Lilligant. Since you are running a growth set with sleep powder and 2 attacks. She is actually stronger and faster than Venusaur, all in all making her more suited to sweeping, and she brings less weaknesses to the table. I think with a growth Venusaur set you could utilize it better by adding an EQ over sleep powder perhaps if you really want to run it. Plus you can add quiver dance over growth making her useful outside of the sun.
  11. blazeVA

    blazeVA

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2011
    Messages:
    43
    I disagree with cosmicfinch about Venusaur. Venusaur adds some amazing points to the team that Lilligant doesn't. Countering Toxic Chansey and Blissey and absorbing Toxic Spikes are huge, especially given the more stall nature of this team.

    You Ninetales set it nice, and I've used Sunny Day Ninetales to keep Sun up, but it is not reliable in defeating weather inducers. I would recommend changing it to a Nasty Plot Ninetales, a surprise set in this meta and can allow you to get rid of Politoed and Tyranitar.

    Show Hide

    Ninetales (M) @Life Orb
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 4 Def/ 252 Sp.Atk/ 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    -Nasty Plot
    -Fire Blast
    -Energy Ball
    -Hidden Power [Fighting]


    This also keeps Ninetales from being useless against weatherless teams. I have more suggestions, but I have to get to school and will edit them in later.
  12. cosmicfinch

    cosmicfinch

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Messages:
    50
    I do agree that venusaur can be a lot more useful than lilligant depending on its role. That's why I suggested a mixed set as he is going with a growth Venusaur. After an hp fire or giga drain it's rare anyone expects a physical move after that. If he just wants a fast sweeper that can work great even outside of the sun I think lilli works a bit better here.

    I agree if he is going to run an offensive ninetales, sunny day seems silly and should definitely be replaced. If he wants a sunny day the whole purpose is to tank a slower politoed water attack after bringing sun in, so the ev spread seems weird based on the move set.

    I foresee some big issues against Gliscor and ground teams in general especially with adding jirachi. Have you thought about adding Bronzong over Jirachi?
    Bronzong @ (No Item) Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 48 Atk / 80 Def / 36 SAtk / 92 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Gyro Ball
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Earthquake
    Your team really could use another ground immunity and another counter to terrakion and Gliscor.
  13. Orb

    Orb

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2012
    Messages:
    22
    @ Blaze, I'll keep that in mind. Looking forward for some of your other suggestions. :)

    @ Cosmic, I'd prefer Venusaur over Lilligant
    any day. Then again, that's just me. Bronzong does sound like an interesting choice. However, I'm still leaning more towards my Cresselia. I'm just not digging that Fire weakness Bronzong has. Plus, powered by the Sun? That will deal some serious damage on Bronzong. I already have a good counter for both opposing Gliscor, Terrakion, and Dragon-Type Pokémon. In my opinion, having two counters is just not needed on my team. Arigato.
  14. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,380
    Hey Orb!

    I got your PM, and I must say that this is a very solid and original sun team you have made! I like how your team shows off very underrated but amazing Pokemon such as Cresselia and even Hitmontop who is a great bulky spinner that applies pressure even offensively. Looking through the main premise of your team, I found it very hard to find anything wrong with your team because of all the previous rates and your team already being very well built. One thing I may see having better potential is your Cresselia. You already have Hitmontop as a decent defensive wall for your team, so having two Pokemon on your team both with maxed out physical defense is a little redundant, and you might run into some problems later on in the battle because of how weak Cresselia is without any proper special attack investment. Also, other then Reflect, she supplies very little to the team in general other then tanking hits. One change I think that could make your Cresselia more versatile and useful, is to change her set from a Physical wall to a Defensive Calm Mind set. I recently saw someone use this exact Cresselia on Showdown the other day, and after she sets up a few Calm Minds she is almost impossible to take down unless they're carrying a phazer. Here's the set:

    Cresselia (open)
    [​IMG]
    Cresselia @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP/ 136 Def/ 120 SpA
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    -Calm Mind
    -Moonlight
    -Psychic
    -Hidden Power [Fighting]/Ice Beam


    This thing is pure annoyance when trying to take it down, and actually has the possibility to sweep late game if need be. However, this is not really her goal. Her main goal is to use Calm Mind mostly to patch up her pathetic SpA so she can fight back, while raising her special bulk on top of that, making her an all around defensive tank. She still has defensive bulk, and CM makes her extremely bulky physically and specially. I've included HP Fighting in the set so she can not only wall Mamoswine, but actually deal some nice damage to him as well. It's also so she can hit Hydreigon if worst comes to worst, and Ferrothorn. However, if you would still like to stick with Ice Beam to hit Mence, Chomp, and Landorus then go right ahead. This set is amazing, and I hope you give it a shot in testing it because I almost guarantee you'll love this set.

    Thanks for the PM, I love rating teams. The fact that this team was so well built and original made me want to rate it all the more. Hope you enjoy the new Cresselia set, and good luck with your team!
  15. asterat

    asterat

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    972
    Hi got your request, funny to see how people that upload to YT get creamed by every well learned smogonite! (Yet they only upload wins)

    haha

    Okay this team is neat I really like the use of cresselia, it is so stupid-it just sits there and never ever dies. Hitmontop definitely sticks out on this team and should be replaced. You have lots of options for a rapid spinner but I would stick with a water type as venusaur is your only water resist and with a life orb he might die someday. The water type you choose could be cloyster, starmie, or tentacruel. My personal choice would be cloyster, it also gets hazards and base 180 special defense making it very tough to take down. The fighting types it can't handle have a nice team with cresselia. Another change I would make is changing your garchomp into a focus sash dugtrio and making heatran a weather trapper set. This way sunshine would be easy to keep up allowing for late game sweep with venusaur, which is not hard when dugtrio removes heatran and tyranitar and heatran and dugtrio work together to remove politoed. Hippowdon is a pain in the butt but heatran can take him on with an air balloon. The heatran set I am suggesting is pretty weird and I have not explained it yet but let me try. The set consists of sunny day, magma storm, solarbeam, and earth power or hidden ice. First you use magma storm on the politoed switch in. If it is max HP it will take 12-14% from magma storm (specially defensive will take even less) If politoed is choice scarfed it will take 15-17%. These are not always true so if it is borderline scarf or scarfed definitely switch out into ninetales (which you should definitely make specially defensive). If politoed is not scarfed use sunny day the next turn to weaken scald/specs attacks. Then politoed is stuck in due to magma storm, spam solarbeam and you win the weather war. Then venusuar can sweep easily.

    My other changes are small and are really just preferences.
    Please try these changes out, I honestly think I will myself lol.
    [​IMG]
    Cloyster (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Skill Link
    EVs: 248 HP / 84 Atk / 176 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Rapid Spin
    - Icicle Spear
    - Ice Shard/Hidden Power Fire
    - Toxic Spikes / Spikes

    [​IMG]
    Heatran (F) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Sunny Day
    - Magma Storm
    - SolarBeam
    - Earth Power

    [​IMG]
    Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe | 21 HP
    Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Substitute / Stone Edge
    - Reversal


    [​IMG]
    Ninetales @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 248 HP / 212 SDef / 48 Spd
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 30 Def / 30 SDef / 30 Spd / 3 Atk
    - Protect
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Flamethrower
    - Roar

    feel free to run whatever moves or tweak EVs here
    [​IMG]
    Thunder Wave >>> Reflect
    Reflect does not last and slowing down things from keldeo to stoutland is very nice
  16. Reymedy

    Reymedy The Black Sun.
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
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    Hi,

    I don't see which changes this team could run... I mean, everything has been said. But as I accepted to give a "rate"... here I go !

    So, if you want to make your team shift, I'd say that your Hitmontop/Cresselia core is weak. I have nothing against the use of these pokemons, but some can do better, and these two pokemons leave too many "holes".
    Basically I mean that they are set-up bait.

    For a Sun Team you lack an offensive presence. For instance you got nothing to threaten a Deoxys-D. Let's say he has Rocky Helmet, he can come and set hazards as you spin them, there is nobody in your team that really annoys him.

    So, you lose too much power trying to control the game by spinning and walling with Cresselia and Hitmontop, Sun is a fast paced game most of the time, here you slow down the tempo for nothing.
    I mean, why even bother spinning? You got a spin machine, but your only pokemon weak to SR is Ninetales, does it worth having a pokemon who can almost ONLY spin ? I don't think so.

    Moreover you got no Water resist bar Venusaur.
    Here are my changes :

    Show Hide
    [​IMG] @ [​IMG]
    Nature Cure
    120 HP / 172 SpA / 216 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Psychock
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam / ThunderBolt
    - Rapid Spin

    This Starmie is supposed to be your spinner. Moreover you don't need anymore all the Foresight etc stuff, since you kill Gengar straight off. Jellicent can be an issue but well, Jellicent is an easy set-up for Venusaur, and could beat your Hitmontop easily before aswell.
    He can eat the Scalds your team don't like.
    These EVs are here to give you a good Life Orb Number, to kill non Defensive version of CB Ttar, to kill the classic version (with some Hp and SpD) after SR, and anyway with these HP, you can live a Pursuit most of the time even if he's full Atk.
    Ice Beam is here to deal with Lati@s since you 2HKO Latias and kill Latios after SR damages.
    Obviously you also 0HKO Keldeo with Psychock, no matter how many CM he could have gathered.

    * If you finally feel like you don't need so much the Spin, you can go for Rotom-W who is a perfect candidate for the bulky water spot.



    Show Hide
    And now that Starmie is here, Mamoswine seems to be a nice added value to the team, adding another Electric resistance to play around. Mamoswine is almost always a good pokemon in any Sun Team anyway, giving them a lot of coverage :

    [​IMG] @ [​IMG]
    Thick Fat
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Shard
    - Icycle Spear
    - Superpower / Stealth Rock


    A combinaison of Thundurus-T who volt-switch around and a Duggy in a Rain Team is really threatening right now, Mamoswine deals with them both (if Duggy's Sash is broken).
    Mamoswine can lay up SR aswell if you want to change your Heatran for a more offensive version now that's why I slash this choice.


    A more offensive Heatran could be like the TrapTran someone talked about above. Even if it gets raped by a Choice Specs Politoed who does Focus Blast when you go Sunny Day for instance. To be honest I'd say : try this team and you'll know if you need to change your Heatran.


    I hope it helped, good luck.
  17. Harsha

    Harsha
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    This is a pretty solid sun team that's going in the right direction, but I think there are a few things you can change up to make it more efficient. For one, Garchomp is one of the worst Choice Scarf users in my opinion, as it does not have enough power behind its attacks to pack a punch. Additionally, Hitmontop is pretty much outclassed as a spinner. I would recommend Starmie in its place, but I think that would make your team too weak to Tyranitar to warrant use, so I'll stray away from that. You should consider Forretress over Hitmontop though for its ability to lay Spikes and help facilitate an end-game sweep with hazards. While you've stated the few pros to using Hitmontop, none of the Pokemon it covers are threats to your team, and you already have Heatran to take Fire-type attacks. I'd recommend a set with Leftovers, a Bold nature, and a spread of 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 SpA alongside a moveset of Rapid Spin / Volt Switch / Hidden Power Ice / Spikes.

    With Forretress, you now have two Steel-types, one of which can use Hidden Power Ice to nab KOs on Dragons after they lock themselves into Outrage. I'd go about addressing the relative inutility of Garchomp here. I really believe that its best use is as a Choice Band attacker, as it can't do much else effectively. Because you want a revenge killer in that spot, I recommend that you try out Choice Scarf Terrakion. It provides much more power by merit of its high Base Power attacks, and it has coverage against a majority of the metagame. It also beats all +1 Dragons, so you won't have any troubles covering them. I'd recommend a set with a Jolly nature, a spread of 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe, and a moveset of Close Combat / Stone Edge / X-Scissor / Earthquake. Earthquake covers Toxicroak who can potentially cause some trouble.

    You might consider trying Hidden Power Fire over Psychic on Cresselia because even though Psychic is STAB, it doesn't hit anything notable, while Hidden Power Fire can nab surprise KOs on Scizor that attempt to switch in (remember, they can't OHKO Cresselia). I also believe that Asterat's suggestion of Thunder Wave over Reflect on Cresselia might be useful, but you can try that out and be the judge. Those are all the changes I have, there isn't much to be said because teams don't have as much of an effect on the game as momentum does in this metagame. Good luck, I hope I helped.
  18. Orb

    Orb

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2012
    Messages:
    22
    I'd like to thank everyone for their wonderful feedback. I've tweaked my team a bit, and I'll list the changes below. Harsha, I've taken your advice in terms of replacing Garchomp for Terrakion, and Hitmontop for Forretress. I'm quite pleased with the results. I'm still looking for ways to advance my team further, so if any of you have any ideas, please let me know. Thank you for reading, and I'm looking forward for some additional feedback. I now have a counter for bulky Psychic-Types. [​IMG]

    Changes I've made:

    Garchomp for Terrakion
    [​IMG]
    Ability: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Attack/ 252 Speed
    Nature: Jolly (+Spe, - SpA)
    Item: Choice Scarf
    Moves: X-Scissor, Earthquake, Close Combat, Stone Edge

    Hitmontop for Forretress
    [​IMG]
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP/ 176 Defense/ 80 Special Defense
    Nature: Relaxed (+Def, - Speed)
    Item: Leftovers
    Moves: Gyro Ball, Volt Switch, Spikes, Rapid Spin
  19. tehy

    tehy

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    1,503
    Well, now with all the changes, i have a few more suggestions. Firstly, Sleep powder on venusaur needs to go. He's basically the pokemon your team is built around, and without 3 moves, he's walled by way too much to sweep-putting a heatran/dragonite to sleep doesn't matter if you can't do anything back. (And of course, nite often runs lum berry).

    If you really want a revenge-killer that can deal with psychics, why not just run CB weavile? (I mean, i know why. But consider it anyhow.)
    Alternately, consider sableye-it spinblocks, and together with venusaur and cresselia, it can check just about everything that needs checking, stallbreak well, and helps deal with last-pokemon SubCM latias.

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