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Fire Arceus (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Fireburn, Aug 17, 2010.

  1. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
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    http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/arceus [​IMG]

    The coolest Arceus.

    Status: DONE

    _______________________________________________________

    [Overview]

    <p>Do not anger Arceus, lest you dare to invoke the cruel punishment of its burning rage. When in its fiery guise, Arceus will not hesitate to send anything that stands in its way to fry for eternity in the burning lakes of fire for which the underworld is so well known. Its combination of speed, bulk, instant recovery, ability to boost its strength to unimaginable levels, and less of a care for petty magical stones that would make even the most majestic Ho-Oh think twice about coming to battle truly set Fire Arceus a cut above its fellow Fire-types. However, while Arceus is in this enraged state, it cares less about trying to defend itself, which is why the flaming form of Arceus is not as adept defensively as the other types. Nevertheless, if you dare to challenge Arceus in its red-hot form, pray that the sun is not shining, or else the all-consuming flames of his wrath will leave even the mightiest of opposition standing as nothing more than a mere wisp of smoke in the wind.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Judgment / Fire Blast
    move 3: Thunder / Thunderbolt
    move 4: Recover
    item: Flame Plate
    nature: Timid
    evs: 100 HP / 100 Def / 100 SpA / 100 SpD / 100 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Unfortunately, the Fire-type isn't that great defensively, riddling Arceus with weaknesses to Water-, Ground-, and Rock-type attacks, as well as a weakness to Stealth Rock and a vulnerability to Toxic Spikes. However, Fire is quite potent offensively, and Arceus's large number of coverage moves complement STAB Fire-type attacks very well. When combined with Calm Mind and sunlight, Arceus's STAB Judgment will burn enormous chunks of health from even the bulkiest foes, notably the ubiquitous Steel-types in Ubers.</p>

    <p>Although Judgment is preferred as the STAB move of choice for its excellent mix of power and reliability, Fire Blast can also be used if you want significantly more power. Be wary though, as Fire Blast's accuracy is unreliable and it only has half the PP of Judgment, which can hurt Arceus's chances of winning a Calm Mind war. Thunder will easily 2HKO Kyogre, Manaphy, and Ho-Oh after a Calm Mind boost. However, Thunder has pitiful accuracy in the sunlight, so Thunderbolt presents a more reliable alternative to still gash Kyogre and Ho-Oh badly after a Calm Mind; unfortunately, Thunderbolt has significantly less power than Thunder. Recover is great for Arceus as it is very bulky despite its forgettable defensive typing, and Recover helps to mitigate damage taken from Stealth Rock.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Arceus has several other moves that can work over Recover if you would prefer an all-out offensive approach. Arceus can create 101 HP Substitutes, which allows it to set up on Blissey because Seismic Toss will not break its Substitutes in one hit. As a bonus, Arceus also gains status protection from using Substitute. Spacial Rend allows Arceus to do tons of damage to Garchomp, Rayquaza, and Palkia that think they can switch in for a free set-up. Spacial Rend also has a high critical hit rate, which can be beneficial to Arceus should it find itself in a Calm Mind war. Focus Blast will smash Tyranitar and Heatran to bits, while doing a nice bit of damage to Blissey after a few Calm Minds. However, it should be noted that without Recover, Arceus will not be able to take nearly as much punishment, especially if Stealth Rock is up on your side of the field.</p>

    <p>Groudon is an excellent teammate for Fire Arceus. Not only does it set up the sunlight that makes this set so potent, it can also set up Stealth Rock, which will allow Arceus to deal with Ho-Oh much more easily, and stands as a great counter to Blissey, Garchomp, Rock Arceus, and Tyranitar, all of which counter Fire Arceus quite effectively. Rapid Spin support from Forretress is also a massive boon considering that Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes greatly hinder this Arceus. Giratina-O is also recommended as a teammate to help keep entry hazards up on the opponent's side of the field, which is a huge help against Ho-Oh.</p>

    <p>Fire Arceus has massive problems with Kyogre, Latios, Latias, and the aforementioned Blissey. Defensive Heatran with Toxic can also check Fire Arceus with Taunt and Toxic, although a boosted Thunder will do quite a bit. The aforementioned Giratina-O can easily lure in and KO Heatran with a surprise Earthquake, and its powerful physical attacks make it a great check for Blissey. Latias, thanks to her enormous Special Defense and powerful Thunder, is an excellent counter to Kyogre and Heatran. Scizor can use its powerful STAB U-turn to KO; it can also weaken or KO the trio with Pursuit if they switch out. Metagross can fulfill a similar role, and it has the bonus of resisting the Rock-type attacks that will inevitably be thrown Arceus's way. Tickle Wobbuffet combined with a user of Pursuit is also a near foolproof way of KOing Blissey; Wobbuffet can also trap and KO Latios and Latias with Mirror Coat. Wobbuffet is a big help to Fire Arceus in general thanks to Encore, which can be used to clear a path for Fire Arceus to start setting up with Calm Mind. Arceus also covers Wobbuffet's weakness to Bug-type attacks.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Overheat allows Arceus to do insane damage in one turn, but the Special Attack drop is somewhat counterproductive with Calm Mind. Ice Beam always OHKOes Garchomp switch-ins while providing good coverage alongside Arceus's STAB Judgment + Electric-type move of choice. Grass Knot allows Arceus to hit Kyogre and Tyranitar with one attack, but otherwise its coverage is forgettable and it makes Arceus even more vulnerable to Ho-Oh and Heatran. Earth Power smashes Heatran to pieces while still 2HKOing Tyranitar after a Calm Mind, and it also has the bonus of hitting opposing Fire and Rock Arceus, but Ho-Oh is still an issue. Arceus also has access to Cosmic Power, Roar, Refresh, and Iron Defense for a more defensively minded set up, but pure Fire typing isn't the best defensively, and generally other Arceus types can use these moves much more effectively.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Blissey can easily handle Arceus with Toxic if it does not have Substitute. Tyranitar resists Fire-type attacks, takes little damage from Thunder, and can easily KO Arceus with Stone Edge. Tyranitar, however, needs to be wary of Focus Blast and Earth Power. Kyogre can easily drown Arceus with a STAB rain-boosted Surf while simultaneously canceling out the sunlight thanks to Drizzle. Choice Scarf Kyogre is a particular issue since it is faster than Arceus; however, Kyogre can't switch into repeated Thunders. Garchomp is faster than Arceus, resists Judgment, is immune to Thunder, and will quickly defeat it with Earthquake. Ho-Oh can also tank a Thunder with ease and destroy Arceus with Earthquake. Latios and Latias will also defeat Arceus one-on-one in a Calm Mind war unless Arceus gets a critical hit. Heatran equipped with Taunt and Toxic can defeat this Arceus if it lacks Focus Blast or Earth Power, although Heatran will not enjoy a boosted Thunder. Finally, Rock Arceus can also counter Fire Arceus due to its natural type advantage.</p>
  2. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    Get rid of Spacial Rend and Focus Blast (you can mention them in AC if you like though). Mention Choice Scarf Kyogre as a counter, because it still can switch into 3 of your moves and kill you, and survives Thunder should it mispredict.

    [​IMG]
  3. Great Sage

    Great Sage

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    While Fire Arceus isn't the best of them (Stealth Rock weakness, Kyogre weakness), it's still quite powerful in a dedicated team. I would think that there should be some sort of mixed set, but Arceus's physical options are rather limited and it can't slaughter Blissey anyways, which is pretty disappointing.

    QC APPROVED (3/3)

    Move it yourself, new mod Fireburn.
  4. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
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    Moved with 1 day redirect.

    Will get this done ASAP.
  5. calze6

    calze6

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    Actually, doesn't arceus's type only change after it switches in giving it an 12.5% damage anyway?
  6. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    Only on Pokemon Online.

    Edit - yes, but smogon's analyses assume correct pokemon mechanics. Shoddy 2 should hopefully have Farceus implemented properly when it comes out as well.
  7. calze6

    calze6

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    Although that is the only place where it is currently played at.
  8. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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  9. alex 67

    alex 67

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    Why not use flamethrower over Judgement? It's power is basically the same, more PP, the burn chance and I don't think you get any notable Kos using Judgement.
  10. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    inb4greatsagerages (Great Rage??).

    Anyways, Judgment has a an important things going for it. In the sun, Judgment has a high chance of 2HKOing opposing Arceus (obviously assuming they don't resist), whereas Flamethrower requires a high damage roll. Judgment also has a higher chance of knocking out support Groudon after a Calm Mind, and very often 2HKOes Garchomp after Stealth Rock + Spikes damage. Unlike the burn chance, the extra boost of power will always be there, and sometimes you don't want to accidentally burn Pokemon such as Latias (you'd much rather try to paralyze that). Of course, these are extremely small things, bu it's not like there's a whole lot of difference between FT/Judge in the first place.
  11. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
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    Rough draft is up and ready for grammar/prose checks!
  12. firecape

    firecape This is the end...
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    Gods do not get smote. Also, it was decided that Fire Arceus > Fire-type Arceus on IRC, so I fixed those for you.
  13. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
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    Made those fixes.

    I'll see what I can do with the overview.
  14. Fizz

    Fizz

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    GP Check 1/2

    Additions bold, deletions in red, comments in green.

    And, with these changes:

    [​IMG]
  15. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
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    Just put another dime in the jukebox baby
    Come and take some time and dance with me

    add
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    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>Do not anger Arceus, lest you dare to invoke the cruel punishment of its burning rage. When in its fiery guise, Arceus will not hesitate to send anything that stands in its way to fry for eternity in the burning lakes of fire for which the underworld is so well known. (space) Its combination of speed, bulk, instant recovery, ability to boost its strength to unimaginable levels, and less of a care for petty magical stones that would make even the most majestic Ho-Oh think twice about coming to battle truly set Fire Arceus a cut above its fellow Fire-types. However, while Arceus is in this enraged state, it cares less about trying to defend itself, which is why the flaming form of Arceus is not as adept defensively as the other types. Nevertheless, if you dare to challenge Arceus in its red-hot form, pray that the sun is not shining, or else the all-consuming flames of Arceus' His wrath will leave even the mightiest of opposition standing as nothing more than a mere wisp of smoke in the wind.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Judgment / Fire Blast
    move 3: Thunder / Thunderbolt
    move 4: Recover
    item: Flame Plate
    nature: Timid
    evs: 100 HP / 100 Def / 100 SpA / 100 SpD / 100 Spe

    (correct order)

    [Set Comments]

    <p>Unfortunately, the Fire-type (add hyphen) isn't that great defensively, riddling Arceus with weaknesses to Water-, Ground-, and Rock-type attacks, as well as a weakness to Stealth Rock and a vulnerability to Toxic Spikes. However, Fire is quite potent offensively, and Arceus's large number of coverage moves complement STAB Fire-type attacks very well. When combined with Calm Mind and sunlight, Arceus' STAB Judgment will burn enormous chunks of (space) health from even the bulkiest foes, notably the ubiquitous Steel-types in Ubers.</p>

    <p>Although Judgment is preferred as the STAB move of choice for its excellent mix of power and reliability, Fire Blast can also be used if you want significantly more power. However, Be wary though, as Fire Blast's accuracy is unreliable and it only has half the PP of Judgment, which can hurt Arceus'(backspace)s chances of winning a Calm Mind war. Thunder will easily 2HKO Kyogre, Manaphy, and Ho-Oh after a Calm Mind boost. However, Thunder has pitiful accuracy in the sunlight, so Thunderbolt presents a more reliable alternative to still gash Kyogre and Ho-Oh badly after a Calm Mind. However,; unfortunately, Thunderbolt has significantly less power than Thunder. Recover is great for Arceus as Arceus it is very bulky despite its forgettable defensive typing, and rRecover helps to mitigate damage taken from Stealth Rock.</p>

    [Additional Comments]

    <p>Arceus has several other moves that can work over Recover if you would prefer an all(backspace)-out offensive approach. Arceus can create 101 HP Substitutes, which allows it to set up on Blissey as because Seismic Toss will not break its Substitutes in one hit. As a bonus, Arceus also gains status protection from using Substitute. Spacial Rend allows Arceus to do tons of damage to Garchomp, Rayquaza, and Palkia that think they can switch in for a free set-up. Spacial Rend also has a high critical hit rate, which can be beneficial to Arceus should it find itself in a Calm Mind war. Focus Blast will smash Tyranitar and Heatran to bits, while doing a nice bit of damage to Blissey after a few Calm Minds. However, it should be noted that without Recover, Arceus will not be able to take nearly as much punishment, especially if Stealth Rock is up on your side of the field.</p>

    <p>Groudon is an excellent teammate for Fire Arceus. Not only does it set up the sunlight that makes this set so potent, it can also set up Stealth Rock, which will allow Arceus to deal with Ho-Oh much more easily, and provide stands as a great counter to Blissey, Garchomp, Rock-type Arceus, and Tyranitar, all of which counter Fire Arceus quite effectively. Rapid Spin support from Forretress is also a massive boon considering that Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes greatly hinder this Arceus. Giratina-O is also recommended as a teammate to help keep entry hazards up on the opponent's side of the field, which is a huge help against Ho-Oh.</p>

    <p>Fire Arceus has massive problems with Kyogre, Latios, Latias, and the aforementioned Blissey. Defensive Heatran with Toxic can also check Fire Arceus with Taunt and Toxic, although a boosted Thunder will do quite a bit. The aforementioned Giratina-O can easily lure in and KO Heatran with a surprise Earthquake, and its powerful physical attacks make it a great check for Blissey. Latias, thanks to her enormous Special Defense and powerful Thunder, is an excellent counter to Kyogre and Heatran. Scizor can use its powerful STAB U-turn to KO (space) Latios and Latias with ease, and Superpower to demolish Blissey,; it can also weaken or KO the trio with Pursuit if they switch out. Metagross can fulfill a similar role, and it has the bonus of resisting the Rock-type attacks that will inevitably be thrown Arceus's way. Tickle Wobbuffet combined with a user of Pursuit is also a near foolproof way of KOing Blissey,; Wobbuffet can also trap and KO Latios and Latias with Mirror Coat. Wobbuffet is a big help to Fire Arceus in general thanks to Encore, which can be used to clear a path for Fire Arceus to start setting up with Calm Mind. Arceus also covers Wobbuffet's weakness to Bug-type attacks.</p>

    [Team Options]

    <p>Arceus needs sunlight to function properly, so Groudon is pretty much required as a teammate. Not only does sunlight power up Arceus'(backspace)s STAB Fire-type attacks, it also removes Arceus's weakness to Water-type attacks. Groudon is also a great counter to Garchomp, Blissey, Rock-type Arceus, and Tyranitar, all of which trouble Arceus. Arceus also appreciates entry hazard support in the form of Stealth Rock and Spikes to help soften up his counters. Fortunately, Groudon can set up Stealth Rock with ease. Forretress is also a great teammate for Arceus; not only can it set up multiple layers of Spikes with ease, it can also use Rapid Spin to remove the opponent's Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes from play, both of which are great hindrances to Arceus. Forretress also draws Fire-type attacks that Arceus can set up on. Giratina-O can block Rapid Spin from opposing Forretress and defeat them with Hidden Power Fire. It also resists Ground- and Water-type attacks while Arceus covers Giratina-O's weakness to Ice-type moves, making them a fine pair. Giratina-O can also lure in Heatran and Tyranitar and destroy them with Earthquake; the ghostly dragon is also a fine Ho-Oh and Blissey check.</p>

    <p>Arceus will have a lot of problems getting past Kyogre, Blissey, Latios, and Latias, as previously stated. Kyogre and Water-type Arceus are both easily handled by Latias and its powerful Thunder. Latias also appreciates Fire Arceus's ability to wreck Steel-types, making them a good offensive pair. Latias is also a great check to Garchomp thanks to her superior Speed and Earthquake immunity. Scizor and Metagross can defeat Latios and Latias with Pursuit even if they try to switch out. They are also great Tyranitar checks and Blissey counters, and they even bait Fire-type attacks that Arceus can set up on. Speaking of Blissey, a Wobbuffet armed with Tickle combined with one of the aforementioned Pursuit users makes for a cunning combination that is all but guaranteed to remove Blissey from the match, allowing Arceus to wreck the enemy team. Wobbuffet can also use Encore to help open up an opportunity for Arceus to set up, and it can trap and KO Pokemon that are otherwise problematic to Arceus, such as Latias and some Garchomp variants.</p>

    [Optional Changes]

    <p>Overheat allows Arceus to do insane damage in one turn, but the Special Attack drop is somewhat counterproductive with Calm Mind. Ice Beam always OHKOes Garchomp switch-ins (add hyphen) while providing good coverage alongside Arceus'(backspace)s STAB Judgment + Electric-type move of choice. Grass Knot allows Arceus to hit Kyogre and Tyranitar with one attack, but otherwise its coverage is forgettable and it makes Arceus (space) even more vulnerable to Ho-Oh and Heatran. Earth Power smashes Heatran to pieces while still 2HKOing Tyranitar after a Calm Mind, and it also has the bonus of hitting opposing Fire and Rock Arceus, but Ho-Oh is still an issue. Arceus also has access to Cosmic Power, Roar, Refresh, and Iron Defense for a more defensively minded set up, but pure Fire typing isn't the best defensively, and generally other Arceus types can use these moves much more effectively.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>Blissey can easily handle Arceus with Toxic if it does not have Substitute. Tyranitar resists Fire-type attacks, takes little damage from Thunder, and can easily KO Arceus with Stone Edge. Tyranitar, however, needs to be wary of Focus Blast and Earth Power. Kyogre can easily drown Arceus with a STAB rain boosted Surf while simultaneously canceling out the sunlight thanks to Drizzle. Choice Scarf Kyogre is a particular issue since it is faster than Arceus.; however, Kyogre can't switch into repeated Thunders, however. Garchomp is faster than Arceus, resists Judgment, is immune to Thunder, and will quickly defeat it with Earthquake. Ho-Oh can also handle tank a Thunder with ease and destroy Arceus with Earthquake. Latios and Latias will also defeat Arceus one(backspace)-on-one in a Calm Mind war unless Arceus gets a critical hit. Heatran equipped with Taunt and Toxic can defeat this Arceus if it lacks Focus Blast or Earth Power, although Heatran will not enjoy a boosted Thunder. Finally, Rock Arceus can also counter Fire Arceus due to its natural type advantage.</p>


    Some spacing errors from when you applied Fizz's check, but outside of that, there wasn't much to change. Just take some extra time to make sure there aren't any spacing issues after applying my changes.

    GP 2/2

    [​IMG]
  16. TorchicBlaziken

    TorchicBlaziken

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    Arceus can create 101 HP Substitutes, which allows it to set up on Blissey as becauseAs a bonus, Arceus also gains status protection from using Substitute

    Something's wrong here.

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