First B/W RMT - MY three musketeers

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Prius, Mar 12, 2011.

  1. Prius

    Prius

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    9
    Team Concept:

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    Yes this is officially my first black and white RMT ever. I have done a few teams before but to be perfectly honest, they really sucked. They were pretty much just "random sweeper on either attack type, random physical wall, blissey and a wildcard." I paid no mind to synergy whatsoever so this team will be a relatively new way to do things for me. I decided to just look through the serebii dex and see what kind of pokemon I could find that would be good and try to make a decent team out of what I could see was good. I am by no means good at this. Case in point, I thought durant would dominate the metagame... yeah... anyway, of course I also got a bit of help from the OU analysis thread which helped me a bit. I more or less wanted to make just a generic balanced team with an actual cohesive core, so here I go!

    Team Building Process:


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    [​IMG]

    I started off by simply pre-ordering the game, which gave me a free liberty pass. Hooray! So I figured, I have a Victini, why not use it? So caught it, and tryed to think of different pokemon that would compliment it well type-wise. My first musketeer​

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    I immediately thought of virizion. It has typing that works awesomely well with victini, and the bulk to swith in on certain threats to Victini. Also, yes I know it's shady making this one of my musketeers but frankly, I don't care, this is my second musketeer.​

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    Even with the cool type synergy Victini and Virizion have, there was still one glaring weakness sticking out, the 4x flying weakness. Yes, I know there isn't much to warrant a fear of flying types, but the weakness was really bothering me. So far, he's been a great contributer to the team and I do believe I made a good choice with him. Better than Dos because of priority taunt, but still has decent bulk to switch in. My third musketeer.​

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    Every good main character has a good supporting cast, and seeing as how my core is primarily offensive, I need some defence there to help it out. The first thing I really wanted to get out of the way was a pressing Chandelure weakness. I tossed a lot of ideas around but eventually just sprung for a bulky water. I origionally had a gastrodon that worked out pretty well, until I realized that stealth rock sucks, so I decided to get a spinner so, why not tentacruel?​

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    SO I had the special side covered, all I wanted now was a good physical check, so I decided to see what all this ruckus people were making about Ferrothorn was about. I tried it and let me tell you, it's AMAZING. I can't believe how much this thing can survive. Needless to say he's not going anywhere.​

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    So I had the flesh of my team done, all I needed was a poke to be the default "first slot" poke. Enter the Flygon that I bred in the dying days of Platinum. I bred him up in about the middle of the metagame, back when B/W where just rumours, EV'd him, and gave him an item. Unfortunately, I then forgot about him till B/W where in my hands. Now, I've given him a chance to shine and I'm rather pleased about how well he's transitioned between gens. He still works, and quite well tbh, though I have thought of switching him with my old Garchomp...​



    In Depth Look:

    [​IMG]
    Flygon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 80 Atk / 176 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Earthquake
    - Draco Meteor
    - U-turn
    - Fire Blast

    This old flygon has had a pretty good run as the first in my lineup. With the concept of leads being completely gone, I find the emphasis on surprise to be quite a big factor and it has worked out quite well with this guy. Many people I find will switch in their skarmories predicting either physical or choice only for them to be fried by fire blast. I think I origionally meant for this thing to have a scarf but to be perfectly honest, I can't remember... but it works as it is so whatever.

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    Tentacruel @ Leftovers
    Trait: Liquid Ooze
    EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 176 SDef / 16 Spd
    Hardy Nature
    - Rapid Spin
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Scald
    - Venoshock

    Origionaly a gastrodon, I decided to switch because entry hazards really suck. As of switching my bulky waters, the problem of hazards has decreased quite a bit. It takes special hits like a beast (which is what I wanted it for in the first place) and even sets up hazards to boot. The problem is it seems to get killed a lot more than gastrodon did. The lack of instant recovery is troubling too, but I really don't want to give up my spin support...

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    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Leech Seed
    - Spikes
    - Power Whip
    - Protect

    The primarily physical side of my wall core (though it can take a few special hits too). My god, the sheer amount of things this thing can KO through attricion in ridiculous. I actually almost outstalled a Forry with it, and I still firmly believe that if it didn't have 120+ rapid spins, I would have won. I also find that even though I have no spin blocker on my team, my hazards usually persist. Usually because this thing can stay in on so much stuff. I like it.

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    Victini @ Life Orb
    Trait: Victory Star
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Focus Blast
    - Searing Shot
    - Psyshock
    - Thunder

    The first part of my offensive core that the team is based around. As the first musketeer, it seems to have more trouble actually getting in and killing things that aren't steel type than the other two.On it's own though, it is pretty nice. it has the best physical bulk out of all of my three core pokes and can switch in on quite a few physical attacks. would just like to note that it has to have a modest nature because of my foolishness, and I just put a life orb on it for the sake of having one other poke without leftovers.

    [​IMG]
    Virizion @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Leaf Blade
    - Sacred Sword
    - Swords Dance
    - Stone Edge

    I put in Virizion to compliment Victini's type combo and it does so very well. It can even snag a neat attack boost from any stray dark attacks that may be aimed at Victini. As a sweeper, it's great. With an SD up, It KOs stuff like it's going out of style, and even without an SD it's very effective at cleaning up after the opposing team has been softened up by the other members of my team, not to mention the hazards set up.

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    Thundurus @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 32 Atk / 220 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Taunt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Hammer Arm

    The final member of my intrepid trio is probably the one that has seen the most use. His priority taunt is incredible, and lets me shut down a lot of stuff that wants to set up or pass around status and/or phaze. Surprisingly (at least to me) being a wallbreaker hasn't affected his lethality on the special side very much at all. Though the physical end of the spectrum leaves a little to be desired, often just barely needing a OHKO to end stuff. I realize that this is essentially what it's supposed to do, but running around at -2 speed is somewhat annoying.

    So that's my team, Sudgestions/Critical analysis would be helpful. I want to see how solid it actually is before using it as my sole Wi-Fi team...
  2. Sneaky

    Sneaky

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2011
    Messages:
    15
    Ok first off I want to say that you may want to extend your descriptions a little bit more or your thread may be locked.

    To start this rate off I see a big Ice weakness to your team and there are a few things that I would like to suggest to your team. Seeing as how you have a lead Flygon seems quite odd to me it's not as effective as it use to be in 4th Generation. If you want to lead off with an effective anti lead, I would suggest a Multiscale Dragonite. With it's Multiscale ability when it's at full health the damage is weakened that is dealt to Dragonite. With this said that makes Dragonite a bigger threat than it was in the past. The set I would suggest for Dragonite is:

    Dragonite (M) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Multi-Scale
    EVs: 56 Atk / 252 SAtk / 200 Spd
    Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Earthquake
    - ExtremeSpeed

    Nattorei seems like a good second choice because it takes care of Dragonites weaknesses making him able to more than likely be able to set up a layer of spikes on the switch. The thing that could be dangerous for Nattorei is that he is easy Shandera bait. I would suggest putting a Shed Shell on Nattorei because he does have access to Leech seed and once shandera is cleared you will be able to slowly regain health if needed.

    Third I want to say that Tentacruel is a good compliment to Nattorei as it can take Fire and Fighting type attacks with ease and setting up a layer of Toxic Spikes on the Switch. I'm not a big fan of the set that you have on Tentacruel though I would suggest using this:

    Tentacruel (M) @ Black Sludge Trait: Liquid Ooze
    EVs: 252 HP / 52 Def / 200 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Scald
    - Rapid Spin
    - Sludge Wave

    In my opinion I think this will have more effectiveness on your team than with the set you are running now. Also, it plays a good roll helping out Nattorei in the long run. The EV's exchanged between Tentacruel and Nattorei compliment each other well, but I'd suggest making Nattorei a little bit more on the bulkier side.

    Fourth thing I want to point out is that I think Victini isn't fit well for this team. Victini is a very powerful and effective Pokemon, but in the current meta game there are a lot of Pokemon that can check it very easily. I would suggest using a Shadow Tag Shandera as it can be a spin blocker and can also be a very effective special attacker for your team. This is the set I suggest:

    Shandera (M) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Overheat
    - Energy Ball
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    This will compliment your team nicely and will be more effective over Victini with its decent move pool and with it's Shadow Tag ability making it a very broken Pokemon in today's meta game.

    The Fifth thing I want to suggest is over Virizion maybe using a Technician Breloom it's a great physical attacker and can be a great late game sweeper. With Breloom able to Spore and Swords dance on most switches and it's great power with Life Orb it is able to rip right through teams Mid to late game. also being a great compliment to shandera as they can handle each others weaknesses with some ease. I would recommend using this set:

    Breloom (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Technician
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Spore
    - Swords Dance
    - Mach Punch
    - Bullet Seed

    Last but not least my last suggestion is over Voltolos (Thundurus) I would use a Rotom-W (Wash Form) As it has the levitate ability which is able to dodge Earthquakes coming towards Tentacruel and Shandera. You would have 2 Pokemon that Resist ground moves but in the chance that breloom is gone you could potentially have a problem with sand teams so I think that Rotom-W can take care of that weakness, he also is a another great compliment for nattorei and breloom as they are weak to fire attacks. I think that he could be a great addition if Nattorei is targeted by shandera Nattorei is able to switch into Rotom-W and scare it off with a Hydro Pump or you can also use trick on the switch. The set I would suggest is:

    Rotom-W @ Choice Specs Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunderbolt
    - Shadow Ball
    - Trick


    Another effective set you could try is:


    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunderbolt
    - Pain Split
    - Will-O-Wisp


    This one is probably more effective for those Sandstorm teams.
    Well this concludes my RMT if you have any other questions or anything you disagree with let me know. I hope I could help out and happy team building!
  3. Lamppost

    Lamppost I put the milk in first
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,092
    Hi Prius,

    At first glance i noticed that your team is weak to landlos and sand teams in general. Rock Polish landlos in the sand can pretty much ohko your whole team if it has hp ice barring nattorei and birijion (it can 2hko them). Swords dance can sweep you after borutorusu is gone since he seems to be your only counter to it, and any good player will be sure to take it out before they set-up. Your team is also weak to swords dance garchomp. Most garchomp usually run substitute with swords dance, so again, your only counter to that is borutorusu, but he's not going to be able to do anything if chomp is behind a sub.

    To fix those problems i would suggest swapping out flygon with a choice scarf garchomp. This solved your garchomp weakness because it effectively outspeeds swords dance garchomp and can KO him with a STAB dragon claw. Try this set:

    Garchomp@choice scarf / Sand Veil
    Jolly 4HP / 252Atk / 252 Spe
    -Dragon Claw
    -Earthquake
    -Outrage/Fire Blast
    -Stone edge/Fire Blast

    To fix your landlos problem i would suggest using a mamoswine. Mamoswine has a monster attack stat along with a STAB priority ice shard which will KO Landlos every time. Try this set out for it:

    Mamoswine@Life Orb / Snow Cloak
    Adamant / 4HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    -Ice Shard
    -Earthquake
    -Superpower
    -Stone Edge

    I hope i helped, good luck!
  4. Mr_br_kill

    Mr_br_kill

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2010
    Messages:
    228
    If ur going to use victini, change searing shot to fire blast; more power and it loses only 5% of acrcey.
    I second the use of berloom over virzian if u use a physical set.
  5. Prius

    Prius

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    9
    I like all the sudgestions, but I kind of felt like keeping the core intact rather than changing everything. However, I am fine with switching my lead, I mostly just put flygon there because I was too lazy to think of a different poke to place there...
  6. afterburn

    afterburn
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2009
    Messages:
    628
    Threats
    1. [​IMG] Nasty Plot Thunderus
    2. [​IMG] Swords Dance Virizion
    3. [​IMG] Bulk Up Conkeldurr
    4. [​IMG] Calm Mind Reuniclus

    Hey Prius, I really like the offensive pressure this team brings, giving no room for things like Excadrill or Terrakion to set-up. However, there a few problematic threats that I'll try to patch up.

    First off is Nasty Plot Thunderus. Even without any boosts, it seems that it can hit 5/6 of your members Super Effectively and deal quite a lot of damage to them. After a boost it's even more threatening, coming on a -2 SAtk Flygon after Draco Meteor's recoil, setting up a quick Nasty Plot and outspeeding and OHKOing everything on your team with +2 Thunderbolt / Focus Blast / Hidden Power Ice. Your own Thunderus is your best way to dealing with it, as you can win the Speed Tie and hit it with Hidden Power Ice. However, I'm unsure if it will OHKO it or not, without Stealth Rock on your team. If the opposing Thunderus wins the Speed Tie, it's gg.

    Next up is Swords Virizion. Swords Dance Virizion can set-up on Ferrothorn with relative ease, taking little from Power Whip, and being immune to Leech Seed. With a Swords Dance under its belt it will also threaten to run through your team with +2 Close Combat / Stone Edge / Leaf Blade. The only roadblock in its way would be Thunderus, who is faster, and can smack Virizion with Hidden Power Ice. However, Thunderus will only be doing significant damage to Virizion with Hidden Power Ice after Defense drops from Close Combat. This means that something will definitely go down to Close Combat (Virizion, Ferrothorn) before Thunderus can come in and hit it with Hidden Power Ice. I also wouldn't consider Hidden Power Ice the best method to revenge Virizion, as it does about 68%-75% most of the time, meaning Virizion can survive with its mammoth Special Defense and KO back with Stone Edge.

    Bulk Up Conkedlurr can do a number to this team. Coming in on -2 Flygon after Draco Meteor, or using Tentacruel as a perfect set-up opportunity to set up some Bulk Ups. Conkeldurr will be hitting this team extra hard because after you take in account the Bulk Up boost and the Toxic Spikes (or Tentacruel's Boiling Water) activating Guts, Conkeldurr will take down any member you send its way. With a Bulk Up and Guts activated, it will OHKO everything with Drain Punch / Stone Edge / Mach Punch.

    Finally, we have Calm Mind Reuniclus. Reuniclus can set-up on Tentacruel, Ferrothorn, -2 Flygon with relative ease (who manages to do 34-38% most of the time with Earthquake) to get in Calm Mind boosts. What makes it even worse is that it doesn't take any Toxic Spikes damage, making it harder to wear down. After a Calm Mind or two it can OHKO pretty much every member between Psychic / Psycho Shock and Focus Blast.

    Solutions:

    • Solution A: Skarmory over Nattorei
    Skarmory and Nattorei have similar roles, and as you said you were using Nattorei as a Physical tank of sorts, Skarmory will be able to do this better with a greater Defense stat and reliable recovery. In addition to this, it's able to take on two of the four troublesome threats to this team, Swords Dance Virizion and Bulk Up Conkeldurr. Swords Dance Virizion after a Swords Dance won't be OHKOing you, whereas you'll be able to KO it with x4 Super Effective Brave Bird. Conkeldurr can set-up all it wants but in the end it will get walled by Skarmory and get its stat boosts removed thanks to Whirlwind. As long as Skarmory is alive, none of these Physical threats will be sweeping you. Outside of checking these two, Skarmory is also able to take on things like Swords Dance Excadrill and Rock Polish Landorus pretty well. It also synergizes well with Tentacruel who has a nasty weakness to Ground- type moves and Physical attacks in general, and it appreciates Skarmory being able to come in and take on things like Garchomp trying to Earthquake Tentacruel. Skarmory can also fall back on Tentacruel if it faces a Special Attacker too strong, for example a Heatran. Tentacruel can take the incoming Fire- type attack and respond with Boiling Water. Definitely worth a shot.
    • Solution B: Chople Berry Tyranitar over Flygon
    Flygon has limited uses this generation, not being able to hit hard enough, is a major let down. Tyranitar however is more useful this generation, especially for your team. Firstly, it provides Stealth Rock, which is something your team is lacking, and you need it to weaken out things like Nasty Plot Thunderus. Secondly, with a Chople Berry equipped Tyranitar will be able to take on Calm Mind Reuniclus and Nasty Plot Thunderus and KO them back with the Super Effective move of choice. Calm Mind Reuniclus will be eager to OHKO Tyranitar with Focus Blast as Tyranitar uses Crunch on Reuniclus and Reuniclus survives with 50%. However to its surprise, Tyranitar would've survived the assault thanks to Chople Berry and land the 2HKO with Crunch. Thunderus is handled in a similar way, with Chople Berry weakening the Focus Blast, and Tyranitar KOing with Stone Edge. Tyranitar is also a great starter against the majority of the Pokemon used in the starting position virtue of its bulk and power. However, I advise you to play carefully with Tyranitar if the team preview shows your opponent does gave Reuniclus or Thunderus, as it is your only check against them, and do what you can to preserve the Chople Berry. Synergy-wise, Tyranitar pairs excellently with Skarmory, luring in things like Hippowdon / Garchomp's Earthquake, Scizor's Bullet Punch, and other Super Effective Physical Attacks aimed at Tyranitar, which Skarmory can use to set-up hazards if the attacks do little damage. In addition to this, Tyranitar is able to get rid off things like Lati@s which trouble Victini and Virizion in sweeping.

    Movesets:

    Defensive Skarmory (open)
    [​IMG]
    Skarmory (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SDef
    Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Spikes
    - Roost
    - Whirlwind
    - Brave Bird
    ---


    Chople Berry SR Tyranitar (open)
    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar (F) @ Chople Berry
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 188 Atk / 68 SAtk
    Brave nature (+Atk, -Spe)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Crunch
    - Stone Edge
    - Fire Blast / Pursuit / Ice Beam
    ---


    So to summarize:
    • Skarmory > Nattorei
    • Chople Tyranitar > Flygon
  7. Prius

    Prius

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    9
    I like the idea of replacing my lead, I'm just not sure if a permanent sandstorm would be the best for my team. Then again I have a huge amount of leftovers everywhere. I'll definitely give a few of these sudgestions a shot.

    EDIT: actually, mayhap I could make use of it's dream world ability... The drop in Special Def. is sort of troubling though...

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