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First Competitive OU Team...Critiques are welcome!

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by Aborfini, Jul 13, 2010.

  1. Aborfini

    Aborfini

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2010
    Messages:
    11
    Introduction:

    Well, I've been playing the Pokemon games virtually my whole life, and, likewise for most of you, the Elite Four has just become more boring than watching grass grow. So, I decided to introduce myself to competitive battling by "building" my own competitive team. Be forewarned, though, that I'm an amateur on the competitive stage, so please bear with me. Based on the fact that I am a beginner, I'm looking for help from all you team raters who have much more knowledge about competitive battling than I do. Question, alter, fix, and critique my team all you want. I'll consider all your opinions and see which one would work the best. Thanks in advance. So, shall we begin?

    (A lot of) Changes are in RED.

    Team at a glance:


    [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I truly can't say I had a distinct building process in mind while I was making this team. However, I kept in mind that, for every Pokemon I added to this team, I needed to cover its weaknesses with another Pokemon. I believe I did a pretty good job at this. Now, we'll go to an in-depth look into each Pokemon and each Pokemon's respective role.


    Team in-depth:

    [Slot 1]
    The Lead -

    [​IMG]
    Swampert @ Leftovers
    Nature: Relaxed
    Ability: Torrent



    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Attack / 252 Defense
    • Stealth Rock
    • Earthquake
    • Ice Beam
    • Roar
    Role: The typical Mix Swampert Lead. Its raw bulkiness just attracted me, so I got rid of the Suicide Lead Aerodactyl to fit it into my team. Of course, I have Stealth Rock on him. Earthquake for a good STAB attack (to use later in the game, too). Ice Beam to hit the pesky Dragons. I like Roar because Stealth Rock damage is damage nonetheless.

    _________________________________________________________


    [Slot 2]
    The Stallbreaker + Physical Wall -

    [​IMG]
    Gliscor @ Leftovers
    Nature: Jolly
    Ability: Sand Veil



    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Defense / 252 Speed
    • Earthquake
    • Roost
    • Taunt
    • Toxic
    Role: This is the obvious Stallbreaker Gliscor. Like I've said before, Gliscor is my favorite Pokemon, so I'd love to keep him on the team. Earthquake for a nice STAB hit. Roost to continue to break stalls. Taunt does what it does to stalls. Now, for the final slot, I'm keeping Toxic strictly for breaking stalls.

    _________________________________________________________


    [Slot 3]
    The Special Attacker + Physical Wall -

    [​IMG]
    Magnezone @ Leftovers
    Nature: Timid
    Ability: Magnet Pull



    EVs: 40 Attack / 252 Special Attack / 216 Speed
    • Substitute
    • Thunder Wave
    • Thunderbolt
    • Hidden Power [Fire]
    Role: Yup, this is the Steel Killer Magnezone, except I put in Thunder Wave, which I DON'T want changed. Thunderbolt allows it to take advantage of its phenomenal Special Attack. Hidden Power Fire is there to kill off trapped Steels. Substitute is there for use on predicted switches.

    _________________________________________________________


    [Slot 4]
    The Special Attacker + Revenge Killer -

    [​IMG]
    Starmie @ Choice Scarf
    Nature: Modest
    Ability: Natural Cure



    EVs: 252 Special Attack / 4 Special Defense / 252 Speed
    • Thunderbolt
    • Grass Knot
    • Ice Beam
    • Surf
    Role: Being that it's my only Special Sweeper, I opted for a Modest nature to hit harder with the speed from the Scarf. Surf is for obvious STAB. Ice Beam helps with killing the Dragons. Thunderbolt is a necessity with Starmie. I know Trick is the usual choice for the fourth slot, but I need a move to hit Swamperts, so I choose Grass Knot. I'd gladly switch out more often to have a move that hits Perts.

    _________________________________________________________


    [Slot 5]
    The Physical Sweeper -

    [​IMG]
    Infernape @ Life Orb
    Nature: Naive
    Ability: Blaze



    EVs: 252 Attack / 4 Special Defense / 252 Speed
    • Close Combat
    • Stone Edge
    • Swords Dance
    • Fire Punch
    Role: This Infernape's goal is just to physically dominate, most likely late in the game. Hopefully, I can predict well and get a Swords Dance off on the switch, and then the fun begins. Close Combat for STAB and to offer a Fighting move. Stone Edge allows me more coverage. Fire Punch is for Physical STAB (and is my only Fire move).

    _________________________________________________________


    [Slot 6]
    The Special Wall + Tank -

    [​IMG]
    Dusknoir @ Leftovers
    Nature: Careful
    Ability: Pressure



    EVs: 252 HP / 28 Attack / 228 Special Defense
    • Will-o-wisp
    • Pain Split
    • Shadow Sneak
    • Earthquake
    Role: Dusknoir offers great type coverage for my team in general while also being my only Special Wall. Its moveset is pretty typical, I'd say. Will-o-wisp to break down walls and stalls. Pain Split for obvious HP recovery. I put in Shadow Sneak because I felt I needed a Ghost-type move (and it also rules out Speed, since Dusknoir is slow). Better defenses than Rotom, and not EVERYBODY uses Dusknoir. I like Dusknoir; I don't like Rotom.

    This is an edit on my original team. This is pretty much what my team is going to be. If you want to suggest something still, I'll gladly listen to it.
  2. danmantincan

    danmantincan

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2010
    Messages:
    2,805
    I have only taken a quick glance at your team and one thing that stands out is a massive ground weakness. You have three Pokemon that are weak to ground attacks (one of which is a 4x weakness) and only one immunity/resist, which is on a suicide lead, so it cannot truly be counted as an immunity (IMO). Sub Pain Split Rotom-A instead of Dusknoir can help with this problem, but is certainly not a complete fix.
    You may also want to try Fire Blast/Overheat on Infernape, instead of Flamethrower, since when you aren't running SpAtt EVs, you should try to use moves with higher BP in an attempt to compensate for that.

    I will try to get on tomorrow to give your team a proper rate.
  3. soonerorlater

    soonerorlater

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    69
    I still prefer Taunt over Ice Fang on my Aerodactyl; it's a suicide lead, so don't expect it to take care of late game Dragon sweepers who would dominate easily. (Salamence + Crunch can 2HKO, if not OHKO dusknoir)

    Metagross can have either item, but life orb is preferred unless you know and eliminated all of the threats (ScarfTran, or just fast scarfers with SE fire/ground moves)

    On Magnezone, Iron Defense is not going to work well. You won't have enough time to pull it off, or just get hit by special moves. HP Grass/Ice/Fire would be better for coverage.

    Starmie's STAB on Psychic is nice, but it's a bad offensive type. You can already take care of Infernape/Lucario with Surf. You should but Thunderbolt, or you will lose precious type coverage. Even though your team is generally SR resistant, you should still put Rapid Spin instead of TWave for better support. Magnezone and Dusknoir's status moves are enough most of the time.

    Infernape has almost nil staying power, so always life orb. Then you should opt for Flare Blitz/Fire Punch instead of Flamethrower, since you didn't invest any EVs towards it, it will have little effect.

    Dusknoir is good as it is, but Pain Split recovery is a bit shaky. You should opt for a wall with better recovery. Either Wish Blissey with Ice Beam or Vaporeon are nice. If you go for Blissey, you should try to take someone out (I would recommend Magnezone) and still keep Dusknoir for a nice pair of resistance/immunities.

    The team is good offensively, but it has some common weaknesses, which will make you predict very carefully. Scarf Heatran with max Speed and Life Orb Gengar could really wreak havoc on your team. Especially Scarf Heatran, outrunning everything including Metagross after 1 Agility, and OHKOs with Flamethrower/Earth Power. You definitely do need a revenger killer with Scarf to make sure you don't get swept by Choice Scarfers. Maybe get your Starmie following moveset:

    Starmie @ Choice Scarf
    Thunderbolt
    Surf
    Trick
    Rapid Spin/Recover

    it's your choice.
  4. greg3064

    greg3064

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    348
    I'm not a huge fan of Aero leads. It's a suicide lead. The point is to get Rocks up and hopefully prevent the other team from doing so. And with Taunt, Aero can do both of those against everything but priority users and Trick-Scarfers.

    So I would definitely put Taunt on Aero, as that's what he's supposed to do, over Ice Fang. He's a suicide lead, so I wouldn't ever rely on him (for Ice Fang) later in the match. He won't outspeed things like +1 Mence or Flygon that you'd want to revenge with Ice Fang either.

    If you don't want to Taunt, I would personally use a different lead entirely. Suicide leads start you off at 5-6, which is never really worth it IMO. Even when a suicide lead prevents SR and gets it up... your opponent can set it up later with a bulky enough lead, and possibly spin yours away. There are lot's of alternatives... as for SR-carrying leads... Metagross, Azelf, Swampert are all fine, but there are tons.

    I would go Life Orb on that particular Metagross. It gets walled very easily (besides Explosion, and even then Skarmory doesn't take anything even neutral from it), and in the early game a lot of stuff will still be around. Explosion can be useful to explode on most stuff that wallls it though--Gyarados, Zapdos. Thunderpunch is an option for Gyara and sorta for Skarmory. Zen Headbutt is okay for STAB and hitting Rotom-A who will otherwise wall you. Ice Punch can eliminate Dragons which you will outspeed after Agility, but Meteor Mash handles them too. Eh, the reason I don't like AgiliGross is that it's walled too easily.

    Don't bother with Iron Defense on Zone. Earthquakes will still threaten you. Discharge over Thunderbolt can offer 30% Paralysis, which can free up a Thunder Wave spot, but I think you'd be better off just removing Thunder Wave. Flash Cannon has bad coverage and you already have Metagross with Steel on the offensive.

    The main purposes of Magnezone in OU are, as a Steel, to take Outrages and revenge Dragons, and to revenge Steels with his Magnet Pull ability. So if you want to use him focus on one of those. I'd go straight to the analysis and use one of those. The Steel Killer set with Substitute works well and on stuff like CB Scizor's locked Bullet Punch (4x resisted), you can put up a Sub and finish him, maintaining the sub for whatever they send in after you. The Choice Scarf set is also worth a look. Decide whether Steels or Dragons bother your team more.

    I don't think you need Rapid Spin on Starmie, as nothing on your team suffers much from it. Psychic offers poor coverage besides hitting Rotom switch-ins (and if they realize that you don't have Rapid Spin they may not switch in anyway). Starmie makes a nice revenger with a Scarf and Surf / Thunderbolt / Ice Beam / Trick. Surf for STAB, neutral coverage, and hitting Heatran. Tbolt for Gyara. Ice Beam for Dragons. Trick for walls. This needs a Scarf to be effective as otherwise you won't outspeed many +1 threats. If you don't use that, using more defensive EVs (in the analysis) is worth it to survive Gyarados' Earthquake and revenge with Tbolt. I'd go with Surf / Thunderbolt / Ice Beam / Recover in that case.

    Life Orb on Nape there. Few things on him... when you're going mixed you only need 192 Speed EVs, as Infernape is on a unique Speed Tier (with his base 108). The SD set has nice wallbraking capabilities, but I don't really think you should go mixed if you're SDing. Fire Punch and Stone Edge over Thunderpunch and Flamethrower. Fire Punch will still hit hard on what it needs to after an SD. Thunderpunch does cover Gyarados, but it doesn't cover Mence and Zapdos. Hitting all 3 of these for 2x (with higher base power) is better than hitting 1 of them for 4x.

    Dusknoir doesn't look TOO bad. When using Pain Split, you want to minimize HP EVs and maximize Defenses (maybe with some attack investment) so that Pain Split will heal greater percentages. I don't like Dusknoir much. Never used him, but he's never really threatened me. I always Toxic-stall him out and I often carry Tyranitar, though, so it's no surprise. :P

    Good luck!
  5. Aborfini

    Aborfini

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2010
    Messages:
    11
    Well, first of all, thanks for all of your responses. Trust me, I read each and everyone thoroughly. Danmantincan, I hope you'll come back to help fix my team even more. I'd appreciate it a lot.

    Metagross: I will certainly use a Life Orb on my Metagross. I like the idea of Agiligross, so I think I'm going to stick with that. If he gets walled, I'll just switch out (even though the Agility boosts get wiped out) or I'll just explode.
    Conclusion - I'm keeping my moveset and putting a Life Orb on him. Thanks for the help. This guy is a KEEPER.

    Magnezone: I don't know if I want to run a Substitute on my Magnezone. If I alter my Starmie to have the moveset of Ice Beam / Thunderbolt / Recover / Surf, then I would like to keep my Magnezone with Thunder Wave (I don't want to rely on chance with Charge Beam). But still, what should I replace both Flash Cannon and Iron Defense with on my Mag? I still need help with this guy, please. The Choice Scarf set is quite appealing, yet I wouldn't be able to keep Thunder Wave. So, if there is an alternative Magnezone moveset that KEEPS TWave, I'd like to hear that. But if there isn't, I'm willing to go with the Choice Scarf set (with possibly putting in Charge Beam, hoping for a lucky Para).
    Conclusion - no concrete decision made on this guy. Depends on suggestions based on the other members of the team. This guy is UNCERTAIN.

    Dusknoir: I really like Dusknoir's defensive stats and his ability to breakdown walls, but it erks me everytime I see his terrible HP stat. Is there any alternative Special Wall that I could use in this situation? I'd like to avoid the common, overused SkarmBliss, because, frankly, I hate how everyone uses them. Could we somehow fit in Swampert on my team (because I certainly love his bulk and resistances)? But the main point here is that if I get rid of Dusknoir, I need a decent Special Wall to fill his place. Suggestions would be lovely.
    Conclusion - no concrete decision on this guy, either. If I can find an alternative, I'd be willing to swap him out. This guy is UNCERTAIN.

    Infernape: With Infernape, that was actually a mistake. Originally I was going for a Special Ape, but then I changed my mind without realizing I kept Flamethrower. So, Fire Punch is the obvious replacement - dumb mistake on my part, but thanks for pointing it out. I will also equip my Infernape with a Life Orb, thanks again for clearing that up. I will also change his Thunderpunch to Stone Edge (because you made a great point, Greg3064). It might work out, too, to put a Stone Edge on Ape because I could replace Aerodactyl with a better lead. So, that leads to my next question...(*)
    Conclusion - With help from you guys, I've ironed out his problems. So the final Ape: Physical Infernape with Life Orb and the moveset of Fire Punch / Stone Edge / Swords Dance / Close Combat. This guy is a KEEPER.

    Starmie: The Choice Scarf set on this Starmie makes a whole lot of sense to me, now that I've read what you guys have said. However, I really like the speedy Thunder Waver I have in Starmie. And if I make Magnezone a Choice Scarfer, then Starmie will definitely need to have TWave. So, it's either change Magnezone to a Choice Scarfer or change Starmie to a Choice Scarfer. I'd rather change Starmie to a Choice Scarfer, because Magnezone could function better as a wall while also using Thunder Wave.
    Conclusion: Starmie is here to stay regardless of what set I put on it. Starmie can be deadly as a Choice Scarfer, and I think Magnezone is better suited with TWave than Starmie is. This guy is a KEEPER leaning towards (but not 100% certain - you can still offer suggestions) this Scarfed set: Ice Beam / Surf / Thunderbolt / Recover

    Aerodactyl: Despite its speed, I don't like the idea of a suicide Lead. Why waste a whole Pokemon slot just to get SR out? So, this is the major question I already eluded to...(*)What if I go for a Lead Gliscor instead of Aerodactyl? I just love (and will continue to love) Aero for his pure speed, but the point that he's a suicide lead really scared me, while making total sense, mind you. So, what about Gliscor (my favorite pokemon =])? Gliscor definitely has bulk, which I love. He's got some speed to him, aswell. He's got a recovery move in Roost, and he's still got EQ along with Stealth Rock. Gliscor could become my main Physical Wall (replacing Magnezone), which will allow me to remedy Magnezone into the Choice Scarf killer that he can be. Gliscor could also be a more efficient Ground-resistant Poke. So, is Gliscor the better choice?
  6. Azlanslayer

    Azlanslayer

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2010
    Messages:
    259
    First,I Can See Swampert Weakness.On Metagross Use Lum Berry Since THUNDER WAVE really Cripples Metagross.Also On Infernape,U Can Use Fire Punch/Blaze Kick/Flare Blitz Over Flamethower.Also,U Can Use Celebi > Dusknoir Since It Resists Ground And Swamperts.Also,Use Defensive Celebi.Now U Have Thunder wave On Celebi.You Should Use Magnet Rise > Thunder Wave As So Metagrosses/Gyarados CanT Kill It Easily.And Also Iron Defense?Why?U Should Use Substitute On Magnezone.Choice Scarf On Starmie Is Also Good.It Cripples Walls If u Use Trick :D.Anyways,U May Need a Rapid Spinner.Which Is Only Starmie Does The Best.So Use This Set Trick/Rapid Spin/ThunderBolt Or Ice Beam/Surf

    Good Luck With The Team!
  7. Aborfini

    Aborfini

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2010
    Messages:
    11
    I've been looking around at other people's teams, and I've just been messing around with my own. This is what I come up with (along with my previous analysis):

    I could turn my Starmie into a Choice Scarfer and get rid of Thunder Wave on him. I could keep Magnezone, except make him the more Bulky Physical Wall. I would give him Leftovers with this moveset: Substitute / Thunder Wave / Thunderbolt / Hidden Power [Fire] (<< unless there's a better option here for Bulk). I can replace Aerodactyl with Gliscor as the Lead, avoiding the idea of a Suicide Lead while adding another Bulky Physical Wall to my team.

    Now for the apparent weakness to Swampert...how do you suggest I go about fixing that? Any suggestions are, like always, very welcome.
  8. danmantincan

    danmantincan

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2010
    Messages:
    2,805
    I am not really sure about Metagross being on your team. Metagross tends to lure out bulky water Pokemon like Vaporeon, Suicune, Starmie and Swampert. After luring them out, Metagross can then explode, clearing the way for another Pokemon to sweep. However, the rest your team is not stopped by bulky waters (other than Swampert who you can wear down with Dusknoir), which makes Metagross very situational. I would try a SubSeed Celebi, since it can help with your Swampert problem, and can wear down your opponents so they are in easy KO range of Starmie and Infernape. It also removes a Ground weakness and replaces it with a resistance.

    I really don't think you need T-Wave on your Magnezone since the rest of your team are fairly fast on their own (though it could provide a free switch-in/set-up if they are FPed).If you are deciding to keep Magnezone on your team, I would recommend using the Steel Trapper set with Substitute/Thunderbolt/HP Grass and either Magnet Rise/Flash Cannon. HP Grass will greatly help against Swampert, since it is a common switch-in to Magnezone, and will deal 83-98% (with 252 EVs and a neutral SpAttack nature) to the stander MixPert Lead. Substitute is to prevent Magnezone from being easily revenged killed by Scarf Flygon/Tyranitar. Magnet Rise is a nice move you can freely use if you trapped a choice locked steel Pokemon like Scizor or Jirachi, while Flash Cannon is your best attack against Tyranitar, which will be a guaranteed 2HKO on most T-Tars after SR damage.

    Rotom-A can run a Pain Split set better then Dusknoir because of its Electric typing and Levitate, which gives it resistances/immunties against Flying/Steel/Ground, that latter is greatly appreciated by the rest of your team.

    I would keep Infernape as you have it here.

    If you are going to run a Choice Scarf set with Starmie, you should be using Trick instead of Recover, since it seems useless to be switched in and then just spam Recover until it runs out of PP. If you are worried about lack of a recovery move on Starmie, you could use Expert Belt as your item to bluff a Scarf.

    I would try a MixPert Lead since it can reliably set up Stealth Rocks in the beggining, can come back in on Electric attacks aimed at your sweepers, can add residual damage as well as phaze set-up sweepers with Roar, and can also do some respectable damage with STAB Earthquake, and hit Dragonite/Salamence/Flygon hard with Ice Beam (this is particularly important if you chose to run Expert Belt on Starmie since you won't outspeed any of them at +1).
  9. Bogmire

    Bogmire

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,085
    if you decide to keep Dusknoir perhaps you could run EQ>ice punch because a lot of special sweepers are weak to EQ (heatran, jolteon, infernape, magnezone, to name a few) and not a lot are weak to ice punch. and move the 28 atk EVs into special defense because you only need 28 atk evs if you're using EQ w/o shadow sneak to OHKO heatran after SR. other than that they're useless.
  10. Lucien Lachance

    Lucien Lachance

    Joined:
    May 16, 2010
    Messages:
    669
    First off, you don't need 2 physical walls if you use a donphan. OU Rapid Spinner for EVs and the moveset should be this:
    Assurance
    Ice Shard (to 2HKO DD Mence, now you can put taunt on Aerodactyl)
    Rapid Spin (Rapid Spin is practically necessary as almost every team has a SR lead)
    Earthquake
    You can replace this with Magnezone. The steels it's suppose to trap actually end up killing it. From my experience it sucks. Then use the standard AgiGross set so then use Leftovers for bulk.

    Get rid of Psychic on Starmie and put on either T-bolt or Ice beam. Personally, I would use both and get rid of Psychic AND t-wave. It's so fast you don't need the support.

    For infernape, get rid of Flamethrower and use Flare Blitz. It may hurt you, but it will OHKO or 2HKO practically every pokemon with a SD boost.

    I agree with using Gliscor instead of Aerodactyl. Same type, more bulk, and it doubles as a physical wall, but that's not a priority. Gliscor is also the number 1 counter to Lucario. you NEED 216 Spe EVs, jolly nature, and 40 atk EVs to OHKO it with EQ.

    That's about a full rate there.
    Good luck and I hope I helped.
  11. Aborfini

    Aborfini

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2010
    Messages:
    11
    Well, thanks for the continued comments, and I continue to mess around with my team. The MixPert Lead, although it's used quite a lot, sounds good because I love the idea of having a Bulky Pokemon that can still hit hard. So, let's put it in the books - Swampert has now become my Lead with Leftovers and Stealth Rock / Earthquake / Ice Beam / Roar.

    Even with the addition of Swampert, I still believe it's necessary to keep my Starmie. I like it as my Revenge Killer who has solid STAB Surf (no water moves on my Swampert, obviously). However, to remedy my weakness to Swampert, I'm going to put this moveset on my Starmie: Ice Beam / Surf / Thunderbolt / GRASS KNOT.

    Infernape is also here to stay as my Physical Sweeper. Nothing has changed with him; I like his moveset (Fire Punch / Stone Edge / Close Combat / Swords Dance) and his speed.

    I want to keep Magnezone because of his stellar defense, and I'm determined to keep Thunder Wave on him. So, as a Physical Wall who can still use his great Special Attack, his moveset is this: Thunderbolt / Thunder Wave / HP Grass / Substitute

    Now, it comes down to the other two spots. Three pokemon, I believe, are fighting for this spot. This is where you come in, though. I'll offer these three as options, and I hope you can help me figure out which of them will be best. And even maybe, you can suggest a better pokemon to fill these two remaining spots. (Keep in mind that I don't want to use things like Blissey, Skarmory, Rotom, Heatran, Salamence, Celebi, Jirachi, etc.)

    Metagross - I keep him as an AgiliGross with the set I have always been preaching about. If I pick him, this is how he'll look: @ Life Orb and Meteor Mash / Earthquake / Agility / Explosion

    Gliscor - Being my favorite pokemon, I'd love to fit him in, but I'm sure he can. With my lead being Swampert, I would turn Gliscor into a Physical Sweeper but way bulkier than Infernape. I love Gliscor's bulk, his decent Attack and Speed, and his ability to Roost. So, I might use this strategy: @ Life Orb and Roost / Swords Dance / Earthquake / Stone Edge. I was also considering a Baton Pass set to pass on a Swords Dance to Infernape. Only a possibility.

    Dusknoir - I'm pretty set on Dusknoir, if I decide to use him. Although he's not the greatest, I'd use him (not Rotom-A) as my Special Wall (he fits in well) who can also breakdown other walls with Will-o-wisp. There's no reason to have him learn Ice Punch, since Starmie and Swampert both have solid Ice moves, so I'll replace that with Earthquake to fend off Heatran. So, his final moveset would be this: Shadow Sneak / Pain Split / Earthquake / Will-o-wisp.

    Conclusion:
    Four spots on my team are pretty much set; it's the final two that I'm having trouble on. I like a Bulky Lead in Swampert. Starmie can be a sweet Revenge Killer/Special Sweeper. Infernape offers a great Physical Sweeper. I just straight up like Magnezone and his ability to take hits. Those four are set, but the final two spots need filling. It seems like Dusknoir is necessary because I need a Special Wall. But, once again, I need your help.
  12. Aborfini

    Aborfini

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2010
    Messages:
    11
    Bump...looking for some help on my latest post.
  13. jynx KB

    jynx KB

    Joined:
    May 25, 2010
    Messages:
    228
    Alrighty, I'll see what I can do. My rates are more about planting ideas then making actual suggestions, so take from this what you will.

    Ugg, I hate Aerodactyl leads, I really do. Even with Taunt, usually they get Rocks up and die, there are so many other things they can be used for.

    If you want to do some damage, and start off at an easy 6-5 lead, I'd recommend a Choice Band Hippowdon. This thing lasts, and you have 3 Immunities and at least one resistance to Sandstorm, which puts pressure on Opposing teams. Earthquake, Crunch, and Ice Fang is wonderful Lead coverage.

    A fourth move isn't really needed (though it would be nice if Hippowdon learned Trick), but another Fang, Stone Edge, Superpower, Iron Head, Protect (for another turn of Sandstorm or Scouting), or for unusual choices, Attract, or Sleep Talk to deal with Sleep leads. are all possible choices.

    Metagros looks OK, though I'm not familiar with Agiligross, and How the heck does Earthquake hit Aerodactyl?

    Leftovers would probably be the best item here, or a Scucca Berry to deal with Earthquake, the move of choice against opposing Metagross.

    Which brings me to my next point, you have trouble against Ground types. Many of your Pokemon are weak to Ground attacks, and the Starmie and Aerodactyl are otherwise frail, leaving only Dusclops.

    Magnezone could really use Hidden Power Fire to help take advantage of his Steel Trapping ability. It can be used over Iron Defense. Magnet Rise could also be useful, but with no way for Magnezone to attack Grounds that switch in, you're probably better off not using it. Substitute could be used as well, over Flash Cannon possibly, but it may give you trouble with coverage.

    Life Orb Starmie is overrated in my opinion. True it has Recover, but Starmie is so frail, it can usually be taken down by a single attack anyway. I much prefer a Trick variation, either Scarf or Specs, but that's my preference. There is no reason to run Psychic, as it's not a common attacking type. It may help against opposing Fighters, Machamp in particular, but Ice coverage would help you far better. Trick, Ice Beam, Surf, and Thunderbolt should do well, and help against Walls.

    Infernape is a case that could benefit greatly from putting all of your resources into a Physical Pokemon. Life Orb is useful on this Pokemon, but I'm not sold on Swords Dance. If not performed on a switch, it gives an opponent another turn to attack, depleting Health for Life Orb further. Fake Out is an option, as is Stone Edge to catch Gyarados switching in. Change Flamethrower to a Physical Fire attack as well.

    Dusknoir is a nice choice here, but I'm going to suggest Rotom, (the F variant if you want to keep Ice coverage) It can run pretty much the same stat with better resistances and potentially better stats. Plus, with Starmie getting Ice Beam, you could use a SubSplit set, and even get a better Ghost move. Thunderbolt isn't even necessary anymore due to Starmie and Magnezone having the types covered.

    I hope that I have been of some help.

    Edit: ok, you've changed the team further down it seems. *sigh* Ok, I'll update and rate again soon.
  14. Aborfini

    Aborfini

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    Jynx KB, I was reading your wonderful post, and all the while I was hitting myself in the head. I forgot to tell you that I've made some revisions! I feel so bad for seeing you take the time to give such a nice rate all the while it seems to be of no use. And, seeing that you realized this at the end of your rate makes me feel that much worse. Sorry about that. I hope you can rate again soon, because I really want to start making this team come to life. Thanks again.
  15. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
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    First can you update the team for us, it seems kinda confusing on what is curently on the team.

    O.K from what I can gather (and its what I will be rating) you have a
    Swampert
    Infernape
    Starmie
    Magnezone
    and 2 from the folowing list; Metagross, Dusknoir and Gliscor.

    I can see that you run Thunderwave on your team, however their is no logical reason (at least to me) that you need it. You have not slow sweepers (except for Metagross and Thunderwave is not needed as much.

    So I thinkk that first a Magnezone set should be Substitute, Explosion, Thunderbolt, HP Ice/Grass/Fire.

    This allows you to potentially kill to birds with one stone by first trapping and Killing scizor and then Exploding behind your Sub.

    Next I suggest that you run a Gyarados and a Gliscor in the last 2 slots. There is a reason for this. Glisocr runing Taunt, Roost, Earthquake, Toxic is an excellent stall breaker and can really stay around for a while. Gliscor walls Lucario pretty well which is always a plus since it can terrorise your team late game (provided it finds the time to SD up). Glisocr with Toxic alows you to weaken bulky waters which may stand in the way of Infernape sweeping.
    Gyarados gives your team a nice Earthquake immunity and a fire and water resistance which your team needs. It also partners very well with Infernape as they both weaken each others checks.

    And sorry but why don't you want to use pokemon such as these "Blissey, Skarmory, Rotom, Heatran, Salamence, Celebi, Jirachi, etc?"
    Also can you provide the full list of pokemon that you don't want to use since I want to know how limited I am in recomending/rating your team.

    And what is Magnezones purpose on the team?
    (Special Sweeper is not a corect answer and Gliscor is a better wall than it imo)

    Have a Nice Day!
  16. jynx KB

    jynx KB

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    OK, take 2! Swampert is actually a good choice for a team, but Roar is a little better suited for a team abusing a few more entry hazards. Seriously, I have NEVER had a problem with a Choice Band Hipowdon lead, and it provides even better coverage by adding Crunch for the ever common Azelf.

    Hippowdon (F?)
    Item: Choice Band
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 188 HP/ 252 Atk/ 68 Spe
    Earthquake
    Crunch
    Ice fang
    (filler, see previous post)


    Now, you're losing Stealth Rock, but I have never had this thing be taken out be a lead, and it always gets at least one kill. It also luls the opponent into a false sense of security expecting a Stall team, and Sandstorm really doesn't hurt this particular team that much.

    While I still see benefits in my suggestion of a Trick Scarf Starmie to help you get around walls, (so you may want to test it) Grass Knot is an inspired addition, and may indeed be the better option. Suicune could give you a little bit of trouble, not just Swampert. I also forsee some Breloom troubles.

    I have never had much luck with Metagross, as he's not the type of Pokemon that succeeds in my playstyle. That being said, He doesn't seem to need any more then the advice I already gave.

    As a possible option though, and one that allows you to free up Starmie, consider Empoleon. A Steel resistance, a similar Agility stratagy, and access to Grass Knot. Still, Meteor Mash and Explosion are both tempting here, and it opens up a major weakness to Grass.

    Infernape has been changed to pretty much what I suggested, but I still don't see Swords Dance working with Life Orb. If that item is used, consider Fake Out and U-Turn.

    Magnezone, also, follows most of the advice I gave, though I do think Hidden Power Fire would be more effective then Grass.

    I'd like to to consider bending and adding a Celebi, as the Grass resistance, as well as STAB, Bulk, and support abilities could help, though Sandstorm with the Hippowdon lead cripples the idea.

    Gliscor works wonders if you choose it, specifically this one, who has 6-0d teams before. Between Roost and Sand Veil, you will find it very dependable.

    Item: Yache Berry
    Ability: Sand Veil
    EVs: 252 HP/ 40 Atk/ 216 Spe
    Nature: Jolly (+ Spe/ - SpA)

    Dusknoir looks fine for what you use it for, though once again, consider bending on Rotom, solely for based on resistances and stats. I don't have experience with it however, so I can't give you as much advice as I'd like.

    Seeing the team updated at the top of the page could let me know what you're having trouble with, and therefore give me more to go on. In terms of synergy, I'd be able to locate typing weaknesses easier. It's just an easier format to immediately spot troubles, so updating the pictures and format will help me at least.

    Again, use what you think will help, and I hope I've given you enough ideas to start building the team you're looking for.
  17. Aborfini

    Aborfini

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    Yes, Ginganinja, your rate was on the correct Pokemon. I will edit my team soon; I'm new to Smogon so cut me some slack. I like Gliscor as a Stall-breaker. I'll strongly consider using him as that. But, if I use Gyrados, I won't have a decent Special Wall, which I desperately need. Dusknoir can be that Special Wall for me while also being a Stall-breaker. Do I need two Stall-breakers then?

    When it comes to the Pokemon I don't want to use, heres the list: Blissey, Skarmory, Salamence, any Legendaries, and that's basically it. Why, you ask? Well, I want to actually build this team, so getting Legendaries with the right IVs will be tough, and plus I don't want to use Legendaries because I think that's a little cheap. Blissey, Skarmory, and Salamence make me sick, because I see them EVERYWHERE.

    Magnezone has good synergy with my team. It has great resistances, and it can function as a Physical Wall while also having the strongest Thunderbolt in the game.

    That edit will be up soon.
  18. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
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    The issue with Dusknor is that its not a stall breaker at all. Taunt (from Gliscor) totaly screws with any wall while the best Dusknoir can do is burn something. I hear what you are saying in regards to having a special wall but its my view that you don't really need one. Gyarados may not be as great at taking special attacks as Dusknoir, however with Gyarados's 95 base HP and 100 base spD I feel that it can take those Fire and Ground attacks very well.

    Also what special attackers are such an issue to you that you need a special Wall?

    Anyway
    Have a Nice Day!
  19. Aborfini

    Aborfini

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    Ginganinja, you sound wise, and I like that, haha. I did my edit for you. Making Gliscor a Stall-breaker sounds great. Dusknoir really isn't a Stall-breaker?! Thanks for enlightening me. Gyarados sounds appealling, as it offers me another Ground immunity. I always thought it was a good rule of thumb to have a Special Wall on your team. Am I wrong with that statement? And, can Gyarados really be Bulky enough for my team?

    Your help has been great so far, and I hope you can help me further. Thanks, again.
  20. Aborfini

    Aborfini

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    Bump

    My main concerns come from my latest post (my team is updated too). Should I replace Gyarados with Dusknoir? Do I need a Special Wall on my team? Is Bulky Gyarados a good fit?
  21. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
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    Well firstly you really don't want to bump that much since its annoying and against the rules but anyway.

    and btw im not that wise I just have a bit of experience posting around here.

    For the record (just so you know in the future) a stall breker is something that breaks up stall. It can use taunt (such as Glisocr which has roost as well so stall cannot wear it down effectivally) or hit from both sides of the spectrum (eg use both physical and special attacks) such as Infernape or Dragonite.

    Special walls are not needed on every team. I am an offensive player and run no special walls a t all. If you think that your team needs a special wall then by all means thats great. However if you are just throwing it on for no real reason then there is little point.

    In regards to Gyarados I believe it is usefull for your team.

    here is the set

    Gyarados @ Leftovers
    Adamant
    156 HP / 72 Atk / 96 Def / 184 Spe
    -Dragon Dance
    -Water Fall
    -Taunt
    -Stone Edge/Bounce

    It survives 2 Fire Blasts from a LO Heatran after Stealth Rock and avoids a 2KO from CB scizor's quick attack. Its main benfit to the team is that to takes random fire attaacks without you having to resort to bring out Starmie. Gyarados also gives you an immunity to ground which is always nice, especially to your team. (In conclusion Gyarados has enough bulk for your team. The question is whether you have a large issue with special attackers that Gyarados does not check (eg Jolteon) in which case you may need a special wall.

    Also I am just going to rag on to why you have thubnderwave on magnezone. I just don't see the need for it on your team at all. Give me a decent reason why you have it and I will shut up about it lol.

    Have a Nice Day!
  22. Aborfini

    Aborfini

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    I have a pretty good idea. Let me see what you think.

    This could be my Special Wall:

    Togekiss @ Leftovers
    Nature: Timid or Calm (?)
    Ability: Serene Grace
    - Wish
    - Encore
    - Air Slash
    - Thunder Wave

    It gives me another ground immunity (like Gyarados). It gives me a Flying move to hit Brelooms, so that I can for certain put Toxic on my Gliscor. It gives me a Thunder Wave, so I can put Flash Cannon (for a Steel move) on my Magnezone. It sounds like a good idea to me.
  23. Man On The Moon

    Man On The Moon

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    On Starmie you should run Hydro Pump instead of surf since it easily 2hkos swampert
    and then trick/psychic over grass not. Trick to battle stall or psychic if you want another attack but trick is better.
  24. Aborfini

    Aborfini

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    On Starmie, I'd rather have Surf than Hydro Pump; it's more reliable. Grass Knot is there to take out Swamperts, without having to rely on Hydro Pump. I don't want to put on Trick or Psychic because then I won't have anything to hit Swamperts.

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