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First OU team

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by ZapdosBlitz, Feb 25, 2010.

  1. ZapdosBlitz

    ZapdosBlitz

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2010
    Messages:
    82
    Intro

    Hi guys and welcome to my first OU team. After getting bored of Cresselia plaguing the UU tier, I finally decided to try my luck at OU. This is my first team. I have had quite a success with this team but there are still spots for improvement. This team is a balanced one built around an Agiligross sweep. So without any further ado I present you the team:

    A First Glance

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG]
    Changes in BOLD*
    (The team now looks really reddish lol)
    In-Depth
    [​IMG]


    Infernape @Focus Sash
    Ability:Blaze
    252 SpA / 64 Atk / 194 Spe
    Nature:Naïve
    -Fire Blast
    -Fake Out
    -Close Combat
    -Stealth Rock

    Infernape is a great lead and that has never let me down once. It has the ability to set-up SR and combat all leads out there, giving me an crucial early advantage in the game. Fire Blast is a strong STAB moves and in when sash has activated (Blaze) it becomes insanely powerful even on resisted hits. Close Combat is second strong STAB move on the physical side. Fake Out break sashes and SR is…SR.
    The EVs are to make Infernape hit as hard as possible and 194 Spe allow it to get the jump on all max speed base 100
    Here is what it can do to other lead out there:
    [​IMG]
    Azelf
    I set-up SR first then switch to Rotom on the predictable boom.
    [​IMG]
    Metagross
    Infernape always beat this lead with Fire Blast but lose to the Occa berry variant
    [​IMG]
    Swampert
    Switch to Rotom to scare it off and easily kill it if it decides to stay in
    [​IMG]
    Jirachi
    Fire Blast is OHKO and Infernape doesn't mind a Choice Scarf too terribly
    [​IMG]
    Aerodactyl
    The only lead not beaten by this guy; I switch to Rotom on this guy.
    [​IMG]
    Infernape
    Switch to Rotom on a predicted Close Combat or scare it off with Suicune
    [​IMG]
    Roserade
    Fake Out first,and as long as Fire Blast doesn't miss, I win. =D
    [​IMG]
    Heatran
    Close Combat for the KO
    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar
    See above
    [​IMG]
    Gliscor
    SR and switch to Rotom since most only carry EQ and U-Turn

    [​IMG]

    Rotom-h @Choice Scarf
    Ability:Levitate
    252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Hp
    Nature:Timid
    -Thunderbolt
    -Overheat
    -Trick
    -Shadow Ball

    Thanks to KnightoftheWind for recommend this form of Rotom,Rotom have work decently in this form.Scarf Rotom is my main checks to many of huge threats in this metagame,namely DD gyara,LO Gengar,SDluke and Scizor.Thunderbolt and Shadow Ball is two great STAB moves and gain great coverage.Overheat is this form signature moves,KOing Scizor and also hitting other steel except Heatran hard.Trick is a valuabe asset on my team,It shut down wall and also RestTalker like Crocune.
    EV give max speed and max power

    [​IMG]
    Latias @Expert Belt
    Ability:Levitate
    252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Hp
    Nature:Timid
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Thunderbolt
    -Surf
    -Hidden Power Fire

    Thanks to Lord Blood for suggesting me this pokes,She have working out well that I even not feel he loss of Wish Support from Vappy.Bait Latias is a great checks to many huge threat,including Heatran,Scizor,and Gyarados.She also provide the famous Double-Dragon combo with Mence which means they are harder to counter.Dragon Pulse is a STAB moves and I prefer it over Draco Meteor because I don't like Latias to switching in so much and provide a more consistent power.Thunderbolt hit Gyarados hard and also all water except Swampert hard.Surf hit fire types such as Infernape and Heatran and provide great coverage with Dragon,Hidden Power Fire hits Scizor and all steel bar Heatran hard (and also for Shedinja...lol)

    [​IMG]
    Scizor @Choice Band
    Ability:Technician
    160 Hp / 180 Atk / 168 SpD
    Nature:Adamant
    -Bullet Punch
    -Superpower
    -U-Turn
    -Pursuit

    After some testing I decided that Tyranitar must go and Scizor came in.It gives me valuabe priority in the form of Bullet Punch and great scouting move that still do great damage in the form of U-Turn and minimize my weakness to ground.Bullet Punch is a no-brainer,the only reason why Scizor jumped from a mere #33 in usage to unreplacable #1.A priority boosted by Technician and STAB means you have strong base 90 priority at your hand.U-Turn is a great scouting moves and still do great damage coupled with STAB,Pursuit helps against fleeing foe and Superpower hit those pesky steel
    EV are suggested by KnightoftheWind.160 Hp give Scizor nice bulk,180 Atk is to deal damage,and 168 SpD allow Scizor not to be 2HKOed by Specs Surf from Latias
    [​IMG]
    Salamence @Life Orb
    Ability :Intimidate
    80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
    Nature:Rash
    -Fire Blast
    -Roost
    -Brick Break
    -Draco Meteor

    From some suggestions and test,I finally change Mence set into Classic MixMence,even though TTar leaving,It's really important to keep Mence alive especially against stall teams,and Roost help that,Brick Break is mainly for Blissey,but also hit TTar hard,Roost is a great immediate recovery,Fire Blast hit Skarmory and all steel type bar Heatran hard.Draco Meteor is still the strongest move in my arsenal and almost always net me a kill
    80 HP EV allow Mence to take some hits,252 SpA gives max power to Fire Blast and Draco Meteor,176 Spe outpace Adamant Lucario.
    [​IMG]
    Metagross @Life Orb
    Ability: Clear Body
    124 Hp / 252 Atk / 132 Spe
    Nature:Adamant
    -Agility
    -Meteor Mash
    -Earthquake
    -Zen Headbutt

    Last but not least, we have Metagross, the star of the team. Agiligross is almost unstoppable late-game with all the holes Mence creates.Life Orb is chosen over Leftovers because without hit Metagross cannot really hit opponent hard. Agility boosts Metagross low speed stat sky high even after just a single use. Meteor Mash is Metagross main attacking option and the occasional attack boost is always welcome. Earthquake hit Fire and Steel types,namely Heatran.Zen Headbutt is chosen because it's hit everything at least neutral bar Skarmory that is handled by half of the team and also a strong secondary STAB moves. Maximum Attack is for maximum power, Speed is to outrun Scarftar after Agility and the rest goes into HP to provide extra bulk.


    Conclusion

    Well this is the team .This team is far from perfect so all suggestions and critisms will be greatly appreciated. Steal it at your own risk. >=]


    Thank You




    (Credit goes to Aeron Ee1 for grammar check)
  2. ZapdosBlitz

    ZapdosBlitz

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2010
    Messages:
    82
    Team Building

    First I want to utilize Metagross,one of my favourite pokemon and also one of the most dangerous sweeper in the metagame,I choose Agiligross set for this purpose
    [​IMG]
    Next I wanted a pokemon that can work well with Metagross that can open holes for Mence sweep,and also have good synergy with Gross,I see no better pokemon than Salamence for this purpose
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Now I need a pokes that can checks many threat for me,and give some handy resist/immunity for this team,I pick Rotom-c for it's ability to get past Swampert,the pokes that could be troublesome for my sweepers.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Now I need 1 more defensive core,that work well in conjuction with Rotom,Bulky-waters fit's this team pretty well,and I needed wish support to keep my 2 sweepers alive,so Vaporeon was in.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I want a revenge-killer,and a bulky one,I also haven't covered Rotom weakness,so TTar was in for his ability to revenge-kill many potent threats
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I missed a lead,and also SR,I want to keep offensive nature of this team,so I decided to use Infernape that not only set SR up but also combatting many leads out there and the team is finally finished
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I find that Vappy not doing well for me because it's not as bulky as I expected,so I need a bit bulkier bulky-waters,and Suicune came in for it's ability to phaze

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    After some suggestion from Smogon raters I made some major changes with the team,TTar leave and Scizor in,Suicune leave and Vappy finally rejoining the team
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Smogon raters again put up so many great rates that make me do some update to the team.Vaporeon again not meet my expectations and it have to leave,and Latias in.Rotom feels boring in it's old form so it decided to bake some pokes with it's new form
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
  3. Aircraft Cemetery

    Aircraft Cemetery

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    169
    Okay, nice team, I like the offensive Playstyle and the aim to set up agility meta for a sweep.
    Your team seems quite solid to me but although i figured out some things you could improve.
    First, I think your Salamence will not really get the chance to break walls. Your own Sand Storm in conjunction with Life Orb and Stealth Rock (your lead doesn't pack taunt and you have no spinner) will let it die incredibly fast. As I see the necessity to run a stallbreaker in your team you should maybe at least change your Mence set to the Classic Mix Mence, which will be able to Roost away a bit of damage.
    Salamence@Life Orb
    Rash-252SpAtk,80HP,176Spe
    -Draco Meteor
    -Brick Break
    -Fire Blast/Flamethrower
    -Roost
    This MixMence also runs more bulk than yours and has the ability to get rid of screens.

    Second, I woul change back your Suicune to Vaporeon. Vaporeon has access to Wish which will greatly help your other team members (Mence, TTar, Rotom) to stay alive a bit longer. The downgrade is that you lose a bit of bulk as well as CM (which I think isn't really necessary on defensive Cune without rest). You will also have to drop either Roar or HP electric. But the great advantage of having a reliable recovery for itself and its teammates as well as being able to scout with protect is just too good to forego:
    Vaporeon@Leftovers
    Bold-252Def, 68Spe, 188HP
    -Surf
    -Wish
    -Protect
    -HP electric/Roar/Toxic
    In the last slot I would use Roar as you can really need a Phazer. HP and Toxic would be mainly for Gyara and other waters but rorom should already take care of them and you can still roar away Gyara's DDs.
    On your Tyranitar you could consider changing EQ to Superpower. This will hit Blissey and other Ttar harder but you won't hit Metagross and Jirachi for se damage. EQ is absolutely viable though as you could get problems with CM Rachi if Nape is down.
    If you really want to keep Cune over Vaporeon I would give Rotom any type of recovery. You could run a resttalk set (where you'd lose Leafstorm) or try Pain split over any of the present moves.
    On your Metagross I would definitely use Life Orb because the extra power is just too good: you will ohko Mence, Dragonite and 2hko most Gliscor, which allows you to drop Ice Punch. Thunderpunch and ZenHeadbutt are better alternatives. Thunderpunch will ohko Gyarados who will wall you completely with Ice Punch and will damage Vaporeon, Cune. However Zen Headbutt is also a good option, as it is the only way to severely damage Rotom. It also damages Zapdos and swampert harder.

    Hope this post helped you. Good Luck.
  4. Lightsabre

    Lightsabre

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Messages:
    1,958
    Adding to the above, make sure you FO on every lead to start out with, so random sashes don't ruin you(I'm looking at Roserade in particular). I loled at your mention of Linoone. really, nobody uses it. Now, on to a more serious rate



    hope this helps :)
  5. Abutorn

    Abutorn

    Joined:
    May 16, 2009
    Messages:
    267
    Hey decent team you have here you might want to change some stuff:

    Infernape: Looks decent over here you might want to replace fake out with Grass knot to destroy Swampert. You say Rotom is easy to destroy it correct? But Rotom is pursuit weak and means Scarftar or Scizor or any kind of thing that learns pursuit can screw it over pretty bad, so it's your choice and it isn't predictable.

    Rotom: One of my favorite pokes but not one of my favorite sets, You don't really explain why this set would be different from other rotom sets because some of them have WoW to cripple physical sweepers might want to try SubRotom because it might be able to take a Meteor mash from Gross and still be able to wall it for days. This set also takes Lucario well which could do a chunk to your team and also outstalls Blissey. Rotom @ Leftovers Nature:Timid , EVS: 252 HP, 70 Def, 188 Speed Then the moveset is: Thunderbolt, WoW, Pain Split, Subsitute.

    Suicune: Calm Mind suffle is a decent set but the weakness about it is that it has no recovery which could be crucial for your team. So you might just want to try The sleep talk set. Since you desire roar on Suicune so much then Try this set with Sleep talk pretty much what you have to change is take out some moves which are Hidden Power Electric and Calm mind for Rest and Sleep talk, and your set will probably be way more useful.

    Tyranitar: Looks decent every Ttar is scarfed now, but it's too predictable and also you have 3 pokemon weak to ground so you have to change one because things with Earthquake or whatever will notice what your weakness is if you continue to switch out to rotom but when it's done, what I recommend you on doing is to switch it to something with more power something like CB Scizor, so you might just want to change the nature to adamant, 252 Attack / 248 HP / 8 Speed, then the moveset to Uturn / Superpower / Bullet punch / Pursuit. Does decent amount of damage to other ghost types and it just is great at finishing things off, Uturning does a lot of damage even if things to resist it.

    Salamence: Your team doesn't have something with a scarf and I don't think Salamence has a lot of synergy with your team so you might want to change it to ScarfLatias which can stop the Salamence Sweep that probably could sweep your whole team if it tried to or Gyarados, any DDancer would do a pact amount of damage to your team, so try this Latias set, 252 Speed / 252 Sp.attack / 6 HP. Then the moveset is Draco Meteor / Trick / Thunderbolt / Surf, Sets great for most DDers.

    Metagross: Not going to tell you much you should change about this but just change the item to Life Orb because Leftovers can't really help you since Grosses attack by itself wouldn't do much, also switch Ice punch into Thunderpunch to deal with Gyarados which could screw you up a bit.

    Good luck and I hope my analysis for your team helped.
  6. mrguy888

    mrguy888

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2009
    Messages:
    54
    Gaining the KO on swampert loses the ko on all the other sash leads. Also scizor can't win if you WoW.
  7. Abutorn

    Abutorn

    Joined:
    May 16, 2009
    Messages:
    267
    Well, 4/10 of the top leads are sash, not that big of a deal, but don't forget he has Bullet punch on Scizor and im pretty sure they're not going to use a fire attack on infernape, so they just probably go out to scizor and bullet punch so no big problem on scizor also, scizor can definitly win Rotom, just depends if WoW hits or not, and I don't know if he's will to take that risk, Just an idea of mine if he'd like to put Grass knot on infernape.
  8. ZapdosBlitz

    ZapdosBlitz

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2010
    Messages:
    82
    Thanks guys for all of your rate :)

    LFC Rulez:Yeah I must admit sometimes mence cannot do much damage thanks to sandstorm,so I will test it and see how it goes with the Classic MixMence set
    I decided not to use Vaporeon.I think I will replace Leftovers with Life Orb again and Thunderpunch>Ice Punch because yeah...I find sometimes if I already reveal Ice Punch,Gyarados usually come and get free set-up

    Lightsabre:I think I'll test Discharge>Thunderbolt because the para chance will help my team that is relatively slow team.(P.S:On Roserade I forgot to add Fake Out there xD)

    Abutorn:Thanks,CBscizor seems appealing for me so it will reduce my weakness and have priority that this team will definitely need.If I use SubRotom than I lacking the way to kill Swampert.Yeah I currently testing Grass Knot but I see that I cannot lose to other lead just to bead one lead,so I think fake out stay.Thanks for your rate


    Keep the rates coming!
    EDIT:I made some changes for the team
  9. ZapdosBlitz

    ZapdosBlitz

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2010
    Messages:
    82
    BUMP!No more rate?
  10. KnightoftheWind

    KnightoftheWind
    is a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,331
    Your team has great difficulty in dealing with Swords Dance Lucario once it sets up. This is mostly due to the fact that you lack anything that both outspeeds Lucario and resists Extremespeed at the time. This means that Lucario can easily switch-in on Scizor locked into Pursuit, double its Attack and do some severe damage to your team. Your entire team falls to Adamant Lucario, after a Swords Dance, Infernape takes 100% - 117.7% from Extremespeed, a clean OHKO, Rotom takes 107.2% - 126.3% from Crunch, a OHKO, Vaporeon takes 109.2% - 128.6% from Close Combat, OHKO, Scizor takes 144.6% - 170.3%, OHKO, Salamence takes 57% - 67.2% from Extremespeed after an Intimidate, a chance of a OHKO after Stealth Rock and Life Orb recoil (Jolly Stone Edge does 128.8% - 152.1%, a OHKO) and Metagross takes 118.8% - 140.4% from Close Combat, OHKO. So this means your entire is OHKOed by Lucario except for Salamence, who is OHKOed by Stone Edge if Lucario is Jolly. I hope you now are aware of the threat Lucario poses.

    To alleviate this problem, I recommend changing your Rotom-C for a Choice Scarf Rotom-H

    Rotom-H @ Choice Scarf | Timid
    252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spd
    Thunderbolt / Shadow Ball / Overheat / Trick

    As a Choice Scarfer, Rotom-H can still effectively check quite a variety of sweepers. Besides being an excellent counter to Lucario, Rotom-H does have some other nice qualities. Trick is quite the blessing for your team, easily crippling Blissey, Snorlax and Swampert. This can allow you to have a better time with Salamence's powerful Draco Meteor, as well as stopping a common Metagross, thus making it easier for Metagross to sweep. Max HP and no major investment in Special Attack may seem weird, but you'll retain the bulk that your previous set had, and you still OHKO Lucario with Overheat and Gyarados with Thunderbolt.

    To further help with Lucario, I'd like to make a change to Salamence's EVs. Try an EV spread of 16 HP / 240 SpA / 252 Spd. Running max speed is very important when using Salamence, so you don't get outsped by neutral base 100s that run max Speed such as Jirachi and other Salamence, and positive base 90s, such as Jolly Lucario, who as I mentioned earlier, poses a threat. You don't lose much power, so there isn't much reason not to run this set.

    I want you to consider Zen Headbutt over ThunderPunch and Life Orb over Leftovers on your Metagross. I know you're a bit Gyarados paranoid, but since you pack Rotom and Vaporeon, you should be fine against Gyarados, as well as Suicune. Zen Headbutt prevents Metagross from being walled by Rotom, having a high chance of 2HKOing Rotom after Stealth Rock, if it has Life Orb, which is why I recommend Life Orb. Plus, you hit every Pokemon except Skarmory, Bronzong and Shedinja for neutral damage.

    Finally, I suggest you use an EV spread of 160 HP / 180 Atk / 168 SpD on your Scizor. The reason for this is that Choice Specs Latias can easily 2HKO your current Scizor with Surf. With this set, this won't happen, so Scizor can switch-in more easily on Latias, as well as other special attackers.

    Good luck with your team.
  11. ZapdosBlitz

    ZapdosBlitz

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2010
    Messages:
    82
    Thanks for the rate KnightoftheWind
    Sorry I forgot to change the Leftovers to LO! xD I change it immediately
    I have not yet have trouble with SDluke because I can played it around but you pointing it out clearly that it can run through my team,I also consider myself about ScarfRotom in my teams and I will definitely try it out because It also solve my trouble to Crocune (Vappy is outstalled it happens once) while also keeping offensive theme in this team.I think I'll keep Rotom Cut because I change it to H then my entire team is walled by Swampert.
    All your EV spread seems nice,and I will test it out especially Mence because I find that max speed is very important.

    Btw...thanks GOLDUCK for complement my team :)
  12. Lord Blood

    Lord Blood

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    651
    I agree with most of the rates up above. There is one thing that you consider. With Scizor being your only priority user, Infernape's going to die too early, Salamence and the like have a tendency to be a pain in the ass for your team. Therefore I suggest a Latias that can threaten to be a huge problem for your opponent, but one that also carries a little surprise. I'm thinking Bait Latias.

    [​IMG] Latias | Expert Belt | Levitate
    Timid | 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse | Hidden Power [Fire] | Surf | Thunderbolt

    Latias' is a great dragon. With base 110 Spe and SpA combined with a base 120 STAB, it's a threat not to taken lightly. To take advantage of Latias' ability to lure in Scizor with the blink of an eye, Bait Latias was introduced. The concept is to confuse your opponent into thinking you're using a Choice Item, generally speaking Specs unless you outspeed Azelf or something which is highly unlikely. With them thinking that you're locked into a move, you punish them by roasting their Scizor to a char. Surf on the other hand provides great coverage when combined with the other moves but it generally also provides decent coverage. You should use Surf to hit oncoming Tyranitar and deal a generous amount. Thunderbolt is your main selling point. Gyarados think that you're locked into HP Fire or Surf? Zap 'em hard! The excellent coverage provided by this moveset will allow you to give Metagross an excellent sweep.

    Good Luck.

    ~ LB ~​
  13. ZapdosBlitz

    ZapdosBlitz

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2010
    Messages:
    82
    Thanks for your rate Lord Blood
    I have tested Latias in Vaporeon spots and it worked out very well,I even not feeling the lose of wish support from Vappy and Bait Latias just fit my offensive based team so again thanks!
    I will made some update for this team
  14. Yehom

    Yehom

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    481
    Just wow, this looks almost exactly like one of my teams. The only difference is that I used a Roserade lead and used New Mixmence. Just wow.

    Anyway, since I'm quite familiar with this team, I know the weaknesses. First of all, Sleep Talking Rotom stops this team completely. It will double status your team to hell. This is why I recommend you replace Salamence(I don't know how he works in your team, but in my team I found that he was quite useless at times) for DD Tryranitar. DD Tryranitar can easily destroy Rotom. I have experienced that this team creates enough set up opportunities, but it hasn’t got the right set-up Pokemon. This is why DD Tryranitar works better then Salamence.

    Tryranitar @ Leftovers/Babiri Berry
    Ability: Sand Stream
    6 Hp/252 Atk/252 Spe
    Jolly nature(+Spe, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Crunch
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge/Fire Punch

    Although Tryranitar works very well in this team, there is a huge choice you have to make. If you want to use Tryranitar mid-game, then you should use Babiri Tryranitar with Fire Punch, because Scizor is always a threat mid-game. If you want to use Tryranitar late-game, then Leftovers is the preferred item to use. Stone Edge is the better choice as a fourth move, but Fire Punch is also considerable.

    Another chance that I would make is replacing Rotom-H for Rotom-C. Swampert is able to wall almost the entire team if it’s not weakened. Rotom-C can kill Swampert or at least scare it away so that it can be killed later on
  15. ZapdosBlitz

    ZapdosBlitz

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2010
    Messages:
    82
    Thanks for your rate Yehom and sorry for similiar team with you
    I will test out your suggestion to Tyranitar but Mence have working very great for my team,and he is the only reason I have yet lose to stall,I have yet to face RestTalk Rotom but isn't it shutted down by my Rotom trick and a combination of Fire Blast and Draco Meteor will end it before it can rest because Mence outspeed them and they really like to burn Mence (that is not really make an impact).
    Yeah theoretically Swampert wall my team all day,But if I use Rotom-c I will become wide-open to much bigger threat,SDluke,and in fact Swampert can't take repeated hit from my team member but If it does a trouble,I will consider Grass Knot over Thunderbolt on Latias
  16. Lord Blood

    Lord Blood

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    651
    I feel a little queezy about you testing Tyranitar over Salamence as that would leave you majorly weak to Swampert. The only thing you could do after Infernape dies, to kill Swampert would be Dragon Pulses from Latias and Trick from Rotom. But that's pretty much it since you'll have 3 EQ weaknesses and after Swampert removes your Tyranitar, Metagross and Infernape, opposing T-tar will have a field day with Latias and Rotom and Scizor would be your only hope.
  17. ZapdosBlitz

    ZapdosBlitz

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2010
    Messages:
    82
    yeah that also what I'm thinking and due to that I think TTar will not fit my team (pointed out before on other post above)simply due to the 3 glaring ground weakness that could be dangerous sometimes

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