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First RMT! [OU RMT]

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by Ronathin, Sep 10, 2010.

  1. Ronathin

    Ronathin

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    6
    Hello, I'm here to have you guys check out this team that me and my friend made while we were bored, we've never really made a team before, so we're open to changes and criticism. I personally am relatively new to pokemon, started in May. So without further adieu.....

    CHANGES ARE IN RED

    [​IMG]
    We started with wanting to build around a DD Nite, that can sweep late game.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    We decided on a Lead Empoleon to compliment the DD nite

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Shaymin to cover most of empoleon's weaknesses

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Jolteon for electric type coverage, and to keep away pesky common Gyarados'

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Starmie to check most of Dragonite's counters as well as a spinner


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Infernape for typing coverage + Bliss Check

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Jolteon was the first poke to leave, as it wasn't serving its purposes as well as a Rotom could, and gave us a very major weakness to ground

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    props to Psychotic on the Uxie suggestion, he has functioned fantastically over Empoleon

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG] Uxie @ Choice Scarf
    Impish Nature
    EVs: 252 HP/104 Def/152 Spe
    Move Set
    [​IMG] Trick
    [​IMG] Thunder Wave
    [​IMG] Stealth Rock
    [​IMG] U-Turn

    What I Do Against Common Leads:

    [​IMG]Azelf - Lead: Trick It Scarf, T-Wave on Switch if not Taunted, U-Turn or Stealth Rocks depending on the switch in
    Colbur Berry - See Above
    Dual Screens - See Above

    [​IMG]Aerodactyl - Trick It Scarf, T-Wave on Switch if not Taunted, U-Turn or Stealth Rocks depending on Switch in

    [​IMG]Dragonite - ? dont know what to do against AntiLead Dragonite
    [​IMG] Heatran - T-Wave it, Set Up Rocks, U-Turn Out


    [​IMG] Infernape - After Fake Out, trick it Scarf, T-Wave Switch, Rocks/U-Turn depending on Switch in


    [​IMG] Machamp - Dont know which to do to be honest, they're all somewhat decent options, but im not sure, suggestions?

    [​IMG] Mamoswine - Trick It Scarf, T-Wave on switch, U-Turn/Stealth Rock depending on Switch In

    [​IMG]Ninjask - Bluff the trick on a protect, go for T-Wave or Stealth Rock assuming a baton pass

    [​IMG]Roserade - Trick It Scarf, if slept i'll switch out to Infernape, otherwise, T-Wave the Switch, Stealth Rocks or U-Turn depending on switch in

    [​IMG] Swampert - Trick the Scarf, T-Wave the switch, Stealth Rock or U-Turn depending on switch

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG] Shaymin @ Leftovers
    Modest Nature
    EVs: 252 HP/70 SpA/188 Spe
    Move Set
    [​IMG] Seed Flare
    [​IMG] Protect
    [​IMG] Leech Seed
    [​IMG] Hidden Power Fire

    Shaymin is our main counter to stalls, Rest + Toxic walls most Blisseys + STAB Seed Flare. Aroma Therapy is there to take all status' off of Dragonite if I end up taking a T-Wave / Burn, ruining my sweep. Shaymin is the perfect typing coverage to weaknesses such as Pert and other Bulky Waters. It also does a fair job at taking ground attacks, as most do a little under 25% with Life Orb. Example: Mamoswine. Skarmory presents a problem to this set however, taking suggestions as to deal with Skarm.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]/[​IMG] Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
    Timid Nature
    EVs: 200 HP/56 SpA/252 Spe
    Move Set
    [​IMG] Thunderbolt
    [​IMG] Hydro Pump
    [​IMG] Trick
    [​IMG] Hidden Power Ice (Considering [​IMG] Shadow Ball for Gengar / Dusknoir)

    Props to The LegendKiller for the suggestion! Jolteon was just another pokemon we had that was perfect setup fodder for (Gyarados, etc)to come in and sweep if we were choiced into the wrong move. We also had a very apparent ground weakness, and with Rotom, that has been lessened considerably. This pokemon so far has worked superbly for our revenge killing purposes, however i have been considering shadow ball over HP Ice, simply because of a Gengar issue i've been having.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]/[​IMG] Starmie @ Life Orb
    Timid Nature
    EVs: 252 SpA/4 HP/252 Spe
    Move Set
    [​IMG] Hydro Pump
    [​IMG] Ice Beam
    [​IMG] Thunderbolt
    [​IMG] Recover

    This is the spinner. Dragonite hates Stealth Rocks, and Starmie can do a great job at not only spinning away rocks, but covering common Dragonite counters, such as those that pack ice attacks. As well as being a fairly bulky pokemon in itself. Thunderbolt is there to deal with pesky Gyarados' as well as Suicune. Recover to heal off any damage taken from walling Dragonite Counters, and surf for the obvious STAB move. Problems can come about if a T-Tar comes in on Starmie, Shaymin can usually take care of T-Tar.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]/[​IMG] Infernape @ Life Orb
    Naive Nature
    EVs: 252 Atk/64 SpA/192 Spe
    Move Set
    [​IMG] Overheat
    [​IMG] Close Combat
    [​IMG] Mach Punch
    [​IMG] U-Turn

    Infernape was chosen as our main revenger killer as well as fire typing coverage. It also serves as a decent scout with U-Turn. It's also our Blissey and Skarmory check. Overheat is in our opinion the best choice for a STAB fire move, because we are scarf'd we dont plan on sticking around for very long, so we dont mind the SpA drops. Close Combat is for Bliss as well as T-Tar and Mamoswine. HP Ice for Dragonite and Flygon, and U-Turn for scouting purposes. Infernape is also a great type coverage and synergizes well with Starmie + Shaymin.

    And for the star....

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]/[​IMG] Dragonite @ Life Orb
    Adamant Nature
    EVs: 252 HP/52 Atk/204 Spe
    Move Set
    [​IMG] Dragon Dance
    [​IMG] Outrage
    [​IMG] Earthquake
    [​IMG] Roost

    Here's the main dude. Dragonite is supposed to come in late game when most of the scouted Dragonite sweepers have been killed off or scared away. The EV Spread allows for as much bulk as possible without sacrificing too much Speed/Attack. Outrage for the STAB Dragon Attack, we are considering replacing it with Dragon Claw, as getting locked into Outrage + Confusion can be very frustrating. Earthquake for better ground coverage, as we dont have many pokemon in this team that can use a ground move. Roost for recovering off the Life Orb recoil and avoiding ice attacks.

    A Final Look

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    CURRENTLY TESTING
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]/[​IMG] Metagross @ ? (Leftovers/Shuca Berry/Occa Berry?)
    Adamant Nature
    Move Set
    [​IMG] Stealth Rock
    [​IMG] Meteor Mash
    [​IMG] Bullet Punch
    [​IMG] Explosion
    (considering Zen Headbutt)
    props to smith and ginganinja for the Metagross lead suggestion, my very evident ground weakness + lead machamp gap have me testing a metagross lead, i dont know whether i should be using Zen Headbutt over some of these moves for machamp, but this is what im testing for now, maybe earthquake as well.

    Switching Shaymin Moveset/EV Spread to:
    The LegendKiller/Ginganinja's suggestions

    Switching Spinner Starmie To Life Orb Starmie(props to LegendKiller)


    Switching ScarfApe To Either Gyarados, Or Physical MixApe

    Testing a Scarf'd Rotom-W in place of Jolteon


    PREVIOUS MEMBERS
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Jolteon @ Choice Specs
    Timid Nature
    EVs: 4 SpD/252 SpA/252 Spe
    Move Set
    Signal Beam
    Thunderbolt
    Shadow Ball
    Hidden Power Grass

    Jolteon is our main counters to Gyarados and Gengar, as well as Celebi. This set can punch tons of holes through teams expecting Life Orb. This is also our main Electric absorber, as most of the pokemon on our team dont appreciate electric attacks. Jolteon synergizes well with Starmie + Infernape as he carries the HP Ice, while Jolteon has the HP Grass. Shadow Ball guarantee's a 0hko on Gengar, and it hits anything not normal fairly well. T-Bolt is for the obvious stab move, Signal Beam is for lack of a Psychic check. HP Grass for the Swamperts / Hippowdon's.




    [​IMG]

    Empoleon @ Chople Berry
    Modest Nature
    EVS: 168HP/82 Def/170SpA/86Spe
    Move Set
    Ice Beam
    Hydro Pump
    Stealth Rock
    Aqua Jet

    This Empoleon set has quickly become one of my favorite leads, besides crits, it isnt 0hko'd by anything, and only 2hko'd by Metagross and Mamoswine. It can 2hko/0hko any lead outside of Dual Screen Azelfs. Ice Beam is to cover any Anti-Lead Dragonite's, we chose Ice Beam over Grass Knot mainly because we already have sufficient grass coverage, and needed a more reliable ice attack than HP Ice. The obvious Hydro Pump is the STAB Attack that gets my most of my 2hko's, combined with Aqua Jet it can 2hko Azelf. Dragonite appreciates the Stealth Rock for its 0hko's


  2. Ronathin

    Ronathin

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    Jun 28, 2010
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    6
    reserved for threat list
  3. Ian15

    Ian15

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    183
    It is just a small thing, but the only reason to use signal beam is to hit TTar on the switch in so Baton Pass is more useful to pass to ape to kill Blissey or TTar on the switch in.
  4. Smith

    Smith is a 90's bitch
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Hey I got your message, this team is pretty cool actually. The main problem I see is that you have 3 ground weaknesses, and two resists. While that may sound fine, those two resists are Shaymin and Dragonite, which basically means you are pretty weak to things like Mamoswine or Flygon. This is worse if they aren't choiced (which sometimes is the case), but it basically means that most of your Pokemon could get hit really hard/KOed with just a little prediction and a switch in opportunity (Specs Jolteon springs to mind). Also Sd Lucario gets pretty hairy, as he can usually extremespeed his way through Infernape with a little prior support.

    With this all in mind, Gyarados strikes me as the perfect Pokemon to patch up these weaknesses. I think that he could go in over your Infernape, who is honestly a bit lackluster at this point. With taunt, he breaks skarmbliss better than Infernape because he isn't choiced, and once you get rid of Rotom-a he breaks stall pretty well. The only problem with that is that gives us three electric weaknesses, which isn't much better, but that leads me to the next idea. Your only steel type is Empoleon, which is not good in my opinion. He'll die pretty quickly in the early game and leave you very open to dragons when you need it most- spikes + outrage Flygon can sweep this team late game. For this reason I think a Lead Metagross would serve you well, as Machamp is also pretty annoying for the team, I've noticed. This lead matches up remarkably well with most of todays lead and ha exceptional synergy in my opinion.

    That's all I got, sorry for being all over the place but it's late where I am. Hope this helped.
  5. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
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    Well the first issue I can see is you having trouble breaking through stall. Sure you have Infernape but its scarfed thus making it more predictiable. Also most stall teams have something like a Gyarados to check your Infernape. Dragonite is walled by Skarmory and pretty much everyone else cannot get past blissey.

    First off I agree with the suggestion above with Metagross over Empoleon and Gyarados over Infernape. The team should work so much better.

    I will also suggest a much better Shaymin set. This one will actualy let you damage blissey and still does fairly well at taking hits.

    Shaymin @ Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP/176 Spd/80 SAtk
    Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect
    - Seed Flare
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Leech Seed heals a huge amount of health if it hits Blissey and you can stall a bit with Protect. HP Fire hits Skarmory which troubles you a bit.

    hope I helped

    Have a Nice Day!
  6. afterburn

    afterburn Villain of some untold story
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Hey, got your PM, good first RMT, though I have a few suggestions to patch up some weaknesses,

    Threats
    Dragon Dance Gyarados (and other assorted Dragon Dancers)
    Offensive Suicune
    Opposing Jolteon
    Common Stall core (Blissey+Skarmory+Rotom-A)
    Weak to Rotom-A

    First off, Dragon Dancers in general will give you a very hard time, especially Offensive Gyarados. By coming in on Jolteon's signal beam, or Infernape's Close Combat, it can set up and sweep unhindered, as even Starmie is OHKOed after Stealth Rock by +1 Stone Edge. Other Dragon Dancers get similar set up opportunities, but you have Infernape to revenge them. Obviously, Infernape can't switch in safely into any of them, so one or two team members are guaranteed to die before Infernape comes into revenge. Suicune and Jolteon will also be problematic thanks to boosted Hydro Pumps/Ice Beam/HP Electric (after Calm Mind) and Specs/LO boosted Thunderbolt/HP Grass/Shadow Ball. Rotom-A itself can also be troublesome, especially the W Forme. It can fire off Hydro Pumps to keep Jolteon at bay, and Thunderbolt to hurt Infernape, Starmie and Dragonite.

    Right off the bat, I think Jolteon is the most replaceable member on this team. You said in the team building section that you added it to repel Gyarados. I don't see how you're accomplishing this by locking yourself into Signal Beam. Instead, I think a Scarf Rotom-W would work better in its place. Its valuable ability to take damage from Gyarados, and KO it back, as well as doing plenty to Dragonite with HP Ice, and crippling Chesto Rest Kingdra with Trick, as well as other stat uppers, like Calm Mind Jirachi. Opposing Jolteon will also be hesitant to switch into Rotom because of Hydro Pump. Try a simple set of: 200 HP/56 Satk/252 Spe Timid Nature, Thunderbolt|Hydro Pump|Trick|HP Icel.

    So now we need a check to DD Tyranitar, and Stall. Firstly I think Shaymin should be changed to the Offensive Leech Seed variant, With max Satk/Speed Seed Flare/HP Fire/Earth power/Leech Seed Timid, and Leftovers. This will give you something to push around stall with, and a great counter to Suicune, and other Bulky Waters, as well as Rotom-A, which prove to be annoying for the team. It can also work as a last resort vs Jolteon, and KO with Earth Power. Since we already have a Choice scarfer, make Infernape a Physically Mixed Ape with the following set: 252 Atk/64 Satk/192 Spe Naive nature, and Close Combat/Overheat/Mach Punch/U-turn. This will give you a great priority move vs Lucario and Tyranitar. Finally, change Starmie to the offensive Life Orb variant with max Satk/max spe, timid nature, same moveset as your current one, but Ice Beam over recover, and Hydro Pump over Surf with a Life orb. Between Starmie+Infernape, you can break down stall easily.

    So summary:
    Scarf Rotom>Jolteon
    Leech Seed shaymin>over current
    LO Starmie>Leftovers Starmie
    Mixape>Scarf Ape

    GL
  7. Azlanslayer

    Azlanslayer

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2010
    Messages:
    259
    Hey, i got you VM =].

    I don't have much to rate, since most of them are pretty much covered by the other raters. Like legend said, remove Jolteon for Scarf Rotom, which counter's Gengar, Scizor,Gyarados can much more. Having said that, SkarmBliss walls this team if they find out Ape is scarfed, i also don't see why Infernape needs scarf. Mixape handles F/W/G cores pretty well, as well as SkarmBliss. I recommend you switching out for Mixape. Starmie is covered by Rotom and Shaymin. Also, take legend's suggestion.

    Good Luck
  8. Faladran

    Faladran
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    Notable Threats

    • Stall
    While your team deals quite well with other offensive teams, any decent Stall player could give you some trouble. A simple SkarmBliss core can wall the majority of your team, and with additional entry hazards support, stall generally has a significant advantage over you. Infernape does have the potential to break these kinds of teams, but its use of a Choice Scarf here limits its effectiveness.

    Suggestions

    • Use Offensive Leech Seed Shaymin
    Other raters have suggested this, and I agree with the changing Shaymin's set. A Leech Seed set will make sure that you aren't walled by Blissey, while providing additional team support. However, I prefer twash's Timid set:

    Shaymin @ Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 68 SpA / 188 Spe
    Timid nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect
    - Seed Flare
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    The EVs ensure that you remain quite bulky, while being fast enough to outpace Jolly Lucario and other threats that have about the same amount of speed. Hidden Power Fire OHKO's Scizor after a bit of residual damage, and Protect can be used to scout attacks and rack up more Leech Seed damage.

    • Try Physically-based Infernape
    Choice Scarf Infernape isn't bad, but using a different set would help you a lot against stall teams. I'd recommend using Physically-based Infernape, as it keeps the scouting ability of U-turn:

    Infernape @ Life Orb
    Ability: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Atk / 64 SpA / 192 Spe
    Naive Nature (+Spe, -SpD)
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn
    - Overheat

    This gives you the freedom to switch attacks, while still remaining a threat against offensive teams. Infernape's STAB attacks will be used for the majority of your sweeping, while Stone Edge hits a switch-ins such as Dragonite and Gyarados.


    Good luck with your team!
  9. Ronathin

    Ronathin

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    6
    thanks so far for the suggestions, i have found much more success from switching Starmie to the LO Set, as well as replacing Jolteon with Scarf Rotom-W, i am still currently testing out the Metagross lead, and havent ruled out a Gyaraods instead of an ape as well
  10. Psychotic..

    Psychotic..

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Messages:
    45
    Hey! This team has mostly been covered by others but ill give it a go anyways.

    First of all this team is completely wrecked by stall. The main weakness is Skarm/(Special wall) which would wreck you if they find out Infernape is scarf. In order to fix this i recommend replacing your current Infernape with a mixape. I personally like Sp based MixApe but physical mix can also work.

    Infernape@Life orb
    Naive~Blaze
    64 Atk / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
    Fire Blast
    Grass Knot
    HP Ice
    Close Combat


    ....

    Replacing Infernape makes you lose your scarf/revenge killer. Replace Jolteon with either a ScarfRotom-H or a Scarf Magnezone. Rotom-H is obviously the preferred option but Magnezone can also trap Scizor and Jirachi who can be annoying should they get past Infernape. This also gives you a steel type which is important for my next recommendation.

    These are the sets:

    Rotom-H/W@Choice Scarf
    Timid~Levitate
    252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    ~Thunderbolt
    ~Overheat/Hydro Pump
    ~Shadow Ball
    ~Trick


    or

    Magnezone@Choice Scarf
    Timid~Magnate pull
    ~Thunderbolt
    ~Hidden Power Fire/ Hidden Power Ice
    ~Flash Cannon
    ~Explosion


    ....

    While Empoleon and Metagross are both good leads i think you would benift from TrickScarf Uxie. It not only acts as a scout with U-turn but provides paralysis support which can extremely help a late game Dragonite sweep. The Idea is to trick your scarf T-wave , set up rocks and come back in later to T-wave something else. This also helps with Agility Lucario/Metagross(with Ice punch) who can wreak havoc if they set up. This is the set:

    Uxie@Choice Scarf
    Impish~Levitate
    252 HP / 104 Def / 152 Spe
    ~Trick
    ~U-Turn
    ~Thunderwave
    ~Stealth rocks



    ....

    Nice team, and good luck.
  11. Ronathin

    Ronathin

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    6
    so far i really love the Uxie set idea, im definatly gonna go with that, thank you for the suggestion! However this leaves my team weak to Bug, Ghost, and Dark attacks, so i was thinking swapping out Starmie with a Offensive Suicune, would that work?
  12. KidX

    KidX

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    495
    I got your PM

    Alright on to the team, well with the adjustments made now, it seems solid. Switching to an offensive suicune will patch up some weaknesses, but you lose the power that starmie has, anyways if you are trying suicune out try this set:

    Suicune @ Leftovers
    EV's: 40 Hp 25 Def 252 Sp. Atk 192 Spe
    Nature: Timid
    Ability: Pressure
    Moves:

    Calm Mind
    Surf
    Hidden Power [Electric]
    Rest / Ice Beam

    This set has been fairly reliable for me in the past the evs here allow you to outspeed offensive gyara and almost guarantees a OHKO with an unboosted hp electric with SR.


    Also for Infernape try replacing one of the moves for taunt, it helps against stall teams.

    Good Luck!
  13. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    Just a Nitpick but I feel that Shaymin should run Modest over Bold like in the Analysis as it really enjoys the extra power.
  14. SunnyDay

    SunnyDay

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
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    8
    I tried this team a little bit and I have to say I'm not too big of a fan of this team I wouldn't call it too much of a stall team but a semi-bulky team it doesn't have too much offensive support. I don't want to bad mouth this team or anything this team is just isn't to much in my favor. I'm not to good at reviewing sets but I do like to test teams so I can't really say much on what to change, but I would suggest making it a tad more offensive.
  15. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
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    Rating by request.

    Hi Ronathin, sorry for my late rate here, I was on vacation when you sent me your request. Anyways, onto the rate! I honestly think you have a very solid team on your hands here. You use a lot of Pokemon which I like to use myself, and your combinations look very effective. I honestly can't think of too many weaknesses for your team aside from maybe not having much against stall (though two Trick users is probably beneficial). One thing that I'm confused about for your team, though, is the moveset choice for Dragonite. I never understood the concept of a bulky LO DD Dragonite. IMO, you should either go full offensive, or full bulky. On a team like this, it can really go either way. I would suggest you change to one of those two, though, because I think your current set is holding you back. If you go full bulky, then I would suggest putting Rapid Spin on your Starmie over Recover or Ice Beam. This will allow Dragonite to switch in and out freely and dish out some nice damage. Bulky DD Dragonite works very well with Leech Seed Shaymin, too, so that's a huge plus. The exact set I'm talking about is:

    Dragonite @ Leftovers
    Careful, 252 HP / 216 SpD / 40 Spe
    Inner Focus
    -Dragon Dance
    -Dragon Claw
    -Roost
    -Heal Bell / Earthquake / Fire Punch

    This guy can do an amazing job at sweeping late game, especially against bulky stall teams. With spin support, it can also come in multiple times and chip away while Roosting when necessary. If bulky isn't your thing, though, I would like to suggest going full offensive with this moveset:

    Dragonite @ Life Orb
    Adamant, 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
    -Dragon Dance
    -Extremespeed
    -Outrage
    -Fire Punch / Earthquake

    This guy would provide you with a secondary priority, the ability to not be complete fodder against Scarf Flygon, and the ability to blast holes through stall teams. Other than that, I really don't have much else to say for your team. You have done a great job with it, and I would rate this 5 stars if i could. Instead, I'll "Like" it :)

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