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First RMT: Tormented

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by bamman1108, Apr 27, 2011.

  1. bamman1108

    bamman1108

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Messages:
    23
    Tormented






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    Hey guys! I'm pretty new here, but I have a bit of experience with competitive battling, although not too much. I've made a few other offensively based teams, but I could never seem to get them to win consistently. This is my first time playing a more defensively based team, and it's based around the use of Tormentran, who I just recently discovered and immediately fell in love with. I made the rest of my team based around him, by covering his weaknesses and giving him some much needed support in order to be successful. The end result was much different than any other team I've used, although it definitely is in need of some help. (Coincidentally, it's also the only team I've used to not have any 5th gen pokemon in it.)





    Team building process:
    Show Hide
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    Obviously, you can have a team based around Tormentran without the Tormentran itself, so of course he's my first choice. I decided to start making my other choices by covering his type weaknesses with pokemon that'll be useful later.

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    To cover up his weakness, I went with Gastrodon and Gengar for several reasons. First, Gastrodon absorbs the water attacks that Heatran is weak to and get a boost from them. Gastrodon is also able to use Toxic and Scald to inflict status on anyone who isn't hit by the toxic spikes that I'll incorporate into the team later. Gengar, although it isn't bulky, can still manage to let toxic run its course with a SubDisable set. Next, I needed someone to actually set up the toxic spikes I need.

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    Forretress was quick to come to mind, and for good reason. Not only can it reliably set up toxic spikes, it can also use either spikes or stealth rock alongside it, and rapid spin away opposing hazards. Next, I decided that a phazer could be extremely useful to take advantage of the entry hazards provided by forretress.

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    Garchomp? I guess I went in a different direction with this guy as my choice as a phazer, but truth be told, he can do the job exceptionally well by using RestTalk combined with the new, amazing damaging phazer, Dragon Tail! The team was finally near its end, and my first choice to fill in the last slot was pretty tough, taking me two tries to get decent enough for my tastes.

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    I went with Tyranitar as a lead at first because he could set up stealth rocks and create a sandstorm which helped out quite a few of my teammates. However, after battling, I was never able to get too much out of him once he set up rocks, and it was frustrating to try to take advantage of weather when so many other teams run weather also.

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    After deciding against Tyranitar, I went with Gallade, one of my favorite pokemon. He seems to be a much better fit into the team, as he's able to use bulk up and drain punch to stay alive for quite awhile, and Tyranitar's job of setting up rocks is now being handled by forretress in addition to toxic spikes. Forretress was also put into the lead position as the best candidate for the job.







    Team Preview:

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    Team In-Depth:


    Note: Underlined words signify changes that have already been made to the team.



    [​IMG]

    Forretress @ Macho Brace
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef (0 IV in speed)
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rapid Spin
    - Gyro Ball


    For my lead, I chose to use Forretress for its amazing ability to get entry hazards up and to spin away the opponent's hazards as well. By giving forretress max special defense EVs, he is able to at least get two layers of spikes up against most leads. Of course, there are times when I won't be able to get hazards up immediately due to the opposing lead being a large threat to Forretress. In these cases, I usually switch to something that can resist it. The worst leads to go up against, obviously, are any leads packing fire-type moves. If I suspect that the other lead is hoping to roast Forretress on turn 1, I usually switch into Heatran, take the fire damage boost, and hopefully force a switch. In some cases, I can switch to Garchomp to bluff an offensive set as well.



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    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 16 SAtk / 100 SDef / 140 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Torment
    - Substitute
    - Protect
    - Lava Plume

    Next is Heatran, who is usually the main focal point of the team. Since he's definitely going to wreck up some serious shit when played at the right time, I usually hold off on sending him out, instead waiting until I get the opportunity to get him in and safely set up a Sub. Once he's in, he's ready to show the opponent why he's called Tormentran. Since most pokemon will only have one move that can hit Tormentran hard, the combination of Torment, Sub, and Protect can make it impossible for the opponent to do any major harm while Toxic slowly but surely whittles down their health. Lava Plume is vital to the set for its burn rate, causing the pokemon not affected by the Toxic Spikes to get crippled anyways. When this set works, it can be one of the most frustrating sets in the game, rendering even those with super effective attacks useless against him.



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    Gastrodon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Storm Drain
    EVs: 212 HP / 252 Def / 44 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Ice Beam
    - Toxic
    - Scald
    - Recover

    This guy is extremely useful to the team. With Storm drain, water type moves are beyond useless against him. Switch in when one's about to come (and when doesn't a team have water moves) and he'll tank like a beast. Ice beam is crucial to take out any flying types that aren't affected by toxic spikes, and Scald is able to burn anything that can't get poisoned. Toxic is to hit flying types with the status they avoided upon switching in, and recover keeps Gastrodon in to tank more hits. The EVs in the set are physically defensive because, as you could probably tell by the specially defensive Forretress, I hate limiting a defensive pokemon to only one type of attack. And since water types can be both physical and special, it really helps. I considered using a Quagsire in this spot, but it doesn't actually resist water types, and Excadrill, one of my most hated pokemon, 2HKOs it if I'm not mistaken, making gastrodon my preferred choice here.



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    Gengar @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Disable
    - Hex
    - Focus Blast

    Oh, SubDisable Gengar, what could I ever do without you? Ever since I saw the combination used with Disable's new 100% accuracy, I've used a similar set to this in almost all of my teams. I just can't live without it. This thing laughs in the face of pokemon like Machamp and Conkeldurr which rely on either Payback or Stone Edge to hit this thing, and when they're no longer able to use those moves against me, they're forced to switch after wasting several turns to poison while at the same time giving me a free turn to make a sub. Hex was chosen over Shadow Ball because most of the pokemon he goes up against are going to end up with some kind of status, usually poison from the toxic spikes or Gastrodon. Combined with Focus Blast, it's a real force to be reckoned with.



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    Garchomp @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Veil
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Tail
    - Swords Dance
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    My, uh, different Garchomp set to say the least. I found it on the OP of the Creative Movesets Topic (which also has the SubDisable Gengar set, but I saw the set used before then). The main reason for using this set is to use RestTalk + Dragon Tail to get a 0 priority phzing move that also does damage. I've also used Roar in place of Swords Dance on this set, and I like both too much to really choose just one, but for now I'm running Swords Dance. I uses to run a chesto berry on this set, mainly because of the overabundance of leftovers already and because it could sometimes let me swords dance on my opponent, rest off their damage, and swords dance again before resting, however, the berry usually only served to do more harm than good for me, especially since it made it more difficult to switch into sleep moves. Sand Veil makes this set even more annoying when I go up against a team that uses SS for themselves, making this guy even harder to kill.



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    Gallade @ Leftovers
    Trait: Steadfast
    EVs: 240 HP / 40 Atk / 216 SDef / 12 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Bulk Up
    - Drain Punch
    - Ice Punch
    - Shadow Sneak

    This is the Bulk Up Gallade set straight from the analysis topic. Ever since I saw Gallade for the first time, it instantly became one of my favorite pokemon. Fortunately, it's also able to hold its own in battle, so I'm always excited when I'm able to use him. What many people overlook about this fighter is his incredible ability to shrug off special attacks. This, combined with Bulk Up to bring his Physical Defense up as well as his already amazing attack, make gallade a huge threat to those who let him set up even a little. What little damage he takes can be recovered indirectly with drain punch, while Ice punch one again covers the flyers that I hate so much. Shadow sneak gives Gallade some much needed priority, as well as perfect neutral coverage. By opting to use this Bulk Up set over his other options, he's able to last longer, once again letting toxic spikes be used to their full potential.


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    So, that should just about be it for this RMT topic. As much as I'd like to list the team's major threats, identifying them is where my noobiness is at its worst. All I can really say is that SS teams can be extremely frustrating due to all the Steel types laughing as Toxic Spikes. Excadrill in particular is terrible. Excadrill may have been my first and only shiny I've seen and caught myself, but that doesn't stop me from hating him with SS up. Another pokemon that can be problematic is Dragonite. If Forretress doesn't get Stealth Rock up, Dragonite can troll Heatran with a combination of Multiscale and Outrage to laugh at Torment. I know there are bound to be tons of other threats to the team, but I have no clue how to identify them really.

    Regardless, I do know that this team needs some definite improvement. I really don't want to get rid of the Heatran, and I'm particularly fond of Gallade in general, though I could part with him if it's really necessary. I'll be the first to say that I have no idea how to make an EV spread, and if you see an EV spread that isn't 252/252/4 of some sort, it was pretty much copy-pasted onto my pokemon. So, now that I've gotten all my noobiness out into the open, what suggestions do you guys have to improve this team?
  2. bamman1108

    bamman1108

    Joined:
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    Well, I really hate to bump this thread without having anything significant to add, so I'm going to put as much as I can into this post to help out this thread. First of all, no more chesto berry for Garchomp. It can be useful sometimes, but usually it only hinders him, sadly.

    As for threats, oftentimes setup sweepers can be devasting. I'd like to mention DD Gyara in particular for being able to hit everyone on the team for neutral damage. I also feel extremely embarrassed for forgetting to mention other Heatran as a major threat to the team, as it completely laughs in the face of my Tormentran, and once the opponent is onto my plan, it's not hard to send it in. Of course, this means that I never bring out my 'tran until the other one is taken care of, which also proves to be difficult. Status is another major issue to the team, which garchomp being the only thing that can successfully deal with it. Ghosts can sometimes be a problem, but oftentimes they switch into Gallade while he bulk ups, and with Gengar in particular, it will beaten by Gallade with Shadow Sneak. Another poekmon that was able to put a dent in my team was Scarf Garchomp, who can do significant damage with outrage, which also makes heatran useless against it, my only steel type to resist its attacks. I guess I'm getting a bit better at identifying these kinds of things now, but I still need help checking them, so any help would be greatly appreciated!

    EDIT: I also now realized that Sigilyph would make an excellent addition to the team with its ability to burn anything that is immune to TSpikes, and with Cosmic Power + Stored Power and his amazing ability, he can be a huge threat, even to dark types. However, I can't find anywhere to put him, so it seems like a lost cause as of now.
  3. Lugia Dragonite Guy

    Lugia Dragonite Guy

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2009
    Messages:
    61
    Perhaps you can switch Forretress to a Rapid Spin Starmie? She can:

    Absorb statuses easily.
    Switch in for water attacks if Gastrodon goes down.
    Handle most Heatran sets.


    Of course, if you did this you would need to pick someone else to be your lead. Perhaps let Gengar lead by using substitute first? You would then have the freedom to change Garchomp to another Pokemon. Perhaps a bulky phazer instead? Sorry if I'm not much help, I'm still trying to learn all the threats this gen. Also, Stealth Rocks are great, but you don't necessarily need them.
  4. bamman1108

    bamman1108

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    The main reason forretress can't be easily replaced is that he plays a vital role in the team in his amazing potency in setting up Toxic Spikes for the rest of the team to abuse, particularly Heatran, who absolutely needs the support for the Torment set to work. Without them, his only means of dealing damage would be from lava plume, burn as a result of lava plume, and (lol) struggles from tormenting choice locked pokemon.
  5. Minacciosa

    Minacciosa

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2011
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    This team seems very well thought out and has all its members playing a useful role. However, some things seem to be redundant, or could be done better by another poke.
    Although it doesn’t do the same things as Garchomp, it Dragonite can Roost away damage and is bulkier with Multiscale and has great synergy with Heatran. Additionally, Bulkup or DD Scrafty could perform a very similar role to Gallade ,except that it use Shed Skin to cure status - which really hurt Gallade. Conkeldurr enjoys status and has better priority than Shadow Sneak, but can’t take special hits as well as Gallade or Scrafty.
    I think the lack of direct offense can be threatening, as once Gengar is gone nothing in your team has over 80 base speed (essentially because Garchomp has to be asleep to ever be attacking first), and Shadow Sneak probably isn’t going to cut it.
    Itemwise : Life Orb is probably best on Gengar so maximize damage output before inevitably going down. Foretress wants Leftovers or Shed Shell, no other item is viable on it.
  6. Kemmi

    Kemmi

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2011
    Messages:
    20
    Salamence would also be a good replacement for Garchomp as a phazer as he has roost, plus Intimidate and decent bulk. Personally, this is the set I run:

    Salamence (M) @ Lum Berry (Leftovers is an alternate option)
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 216 SDef / 24 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Roost
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Tail
    - Dragon Dance

    Salamence would be better because (as you probably already know) every time you switch in, physical attacks are less damaging. This adds to his bulk, while his support moves are obvious, as are his attacking moves. I also think this set isn't as widely used as MixMence, etc so people aren't expecting it (might also help for a safer switch-in of another team member)
  7. bamman1108

    bamman1108

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    OK, so I'm using Salamence over Garchomp for a bit, and it seems like an OK replacement actually. I'm strongly considering Scrafty, although Gengar needs a recovery item due to using subs.
  8. Minacciosa

    Minacciosa

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    Apr 26, 2011
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    I believe Gallade gets Wish, but it is not allowed with Shadow Sneak, which you could replace which could benefit your team.
  9. bamman1108

    bamman1108

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    The problem with wish would be that I couldn't incorporate it into the set without losing out on priority and ice coverage. I could run a physically defensive set made to take better advantage of wish, so I'll try it and see how it goes.
  10. Temporal

    Temporal

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    Mar 1, 2011
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    83
    Gengar sub+painspilt set!!!! that will help you recover a bit faster and drain your opponents hp without actually attacking=D! Also disable will usually cause switches to give you a chance to sub again or pain-spilt (hopefully to a wall!) Hope this helps for the Gengar problem which I saw to be bothering me!
  11. bamman1108

    bamman1108

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    Will running only Hex/Shadow ball work though? It'd seem like Gengar wouldn't be able to do much once the opponent sends in something that resists it.
  12. Minacciosa

    Minacciosa

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    Gengar needs Ghost+Fighting coverage. One of the biggest benefits of Sub/PainSplit Gengar is the ability to beat common special walls with high HP (Blissey and Snorlax mainly). With only Hex/SB, you’re forced out - and makes you even more Pursuit-bait.
  13. Umbrellacorp495

    Umbrellacorp495

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    Messages:
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    Hey dude nice team, and for one I want to say that this team has alot of pokes that I love to use as well so really cool of you to use these. Now onto the critiquing.

    1) I would honestly replace Gastrodon with Unaware Quagsire. It easily beats any and all setup sweepers with the unaware ability and comeback to hit hard with multiple Curse boosts. Heres the set:

    Quagsire @ Leftovers
    Trait: Unaware
    EV's 252/HP 252/SpDef
    Nature: Careful (+SpDef -SpAtk)
    -Curse
    -Recover
    -Waterfall
    -Earthquake

    I know you said that Quagsire wasn't preferable but later on in the rate using him will make sense when paired with something like Jellicent

    2) For Gengar (and although I love the set) I think should be replaced with Jellicent. It would help you alot in the water resistance department, and in the bulkiness department as well. I think using the taunt set would work well too since you seem to have an opening to being setup on with your lack of fast pokes. But this is just an idea.

    3) I like Minacciosa's idea of a Scrafty in place of your Gallade. But I think I have a far more horribly disgustingly devious idea, and it's name be Riolu. I know how you would instantly look at the name and say "Gimmick" but no. with prankster, and oneof the few pokes in the game that learn Roar and Copycat, makes it a force to be pissed with. The idea is after you get all of your entry hazards up you wait for Forry or whatever set up to die, then send in Riolu. Basically with a focus sash it uses roar the first turn, then it lives to next turn use priority copycat, and continue to force things out with priority Roar. And with SR and Toxic Spikes it hurts bad. Though I would say maybe replace Garchomp with Skarmory or Ferrothorn to get moar spikes to ensure that those pokes would die when you attempt the copycat sweep.

    Well thats all I can offer have fun trying suggestions and please try the Riolu set, not many people realize how good it is. Good Luck battling.
  14. bamman1108

    bamman1108

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    Hm... I don't think I considered using Curse on Quagsire, which would make it better then I guess. I'll try that set, and Jellicent is also a great idea since it can run WoW and spinblock. I've actually seen the Riolu set before, and I had definitely underestimated it, but luckily I had a pokemon with priority, although with SS running rampant in the metagame right now I do have some fear that a sash will be too unreliable.

    Definite thanks for the team rate btw, I'm trying all the changes now.
  15. bamman1108

    bamman1108

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    Well, it turns out that PO's copycat is glitched and can't be used more than once in a row because it tries to copy copycat instead of roar, even though in-game it would work properly. I'm updating the thread with the other changes, but Riolu can't be used until PO fixes Copycat to recopy roar instead of just Copycat.

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