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First STAB at OU

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by IbukiX, Mar 27, 2010.

  1. IbukiX

    IbukiX

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    First off i just wanna say it's my first team period and that's i'm still learning. At any rate i'll take no offense if you tell me i'm going about it all wrong (but please point me in the direction where i can learn more :P). So here we go...


    What I was trying to aim for:
    Was going to start off with the match with weavile because it can put a large kink in alot of leads if it works as supposed. From there hopefully the opponents lead is dead or scared off, from which i can bring in Forretress to spin off hazards if weavile failed, set up my own and either explode or save him for later. Or i can choose to bring in swampert to set up stealth rocks and kill/scare away any early game dragons trying to setup.
    After the initial set ups i have my 3 sweepers to clean up with (although flygon is more of a revenge killer like weavile provided it diddn't from it's lead position). The idea is to hopefully kill any gliscors that may have been leading with weavile then have my other sweepers clear the way to set up for a lucario sweep.

    At a glance:
    Weak against certain suicide leads.
    1 weakness to spikes
    2 weak to stealth rock
    Everything else resists or takes neutral from hazards.
    2 dragons means dual 4x weakness to ice while one has the ability to Thunder punch.
    2x weakness to fighting
    3x weakness to fire




    Anti Lead
    Weavile: Focus Sash
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 4hp/252atk/252spd

    Pursuit
    Ice Shards
    Fake Out
    Brick Break

    My Anti-lead lead... fake out to break sashes and put pokes in the damn zone of being 2shot. Pursuit for the Psychic leads (damn azelfs...) and Ice shard for those annoying fossils(aerodactyls)... Brick break is for coverage (T-Tards). I'm pretty sure a suicide ape would be a problem for this lead being tat i have no reliable move against it. As well as not being able to stop a metagross or bronzong (unless fake out - low kick can remove them fast).


    Setting up
    Mix Pert: Left Overs
    Nature: Relaxed
    EVs: 252hp/4atk/252 def

    Stealth Rock
    E Quake
    Ice Beam
    Roar

    Comes after Weaviles lead to set up Rocks. Also a reliable ice beamer for dragons. I chose roar for the last slot to shoo away Gyarados from setting up on him (Which i think is gonna be a problem for this team regardless)


    Forretress: Shed Shell
    Nature: Relaxed
    EVs: 252 hp/112atk/144 def

    Toxic Spikes/spikes
    Rapid spin
    Payback
    Explosion

    Rapid spinner and hazards on one poke :O! Paybacks for blockers and explosions for walls or sweepers that wanna try and set up on him. This is my alternative to swampert in case weavile fails to stop Stealth Rocks. Can come in on ALOT of pokes to rapid spin/ explode or set up my own hazards via spikes or toxic spikes. I was originally going to use toxic spikes to wall removal but atm i'm not entirely sure (also T spikes works on Tentacruel and starmie as they switch in to spin it away.)


    The Sweepers

    Flygon: Choice Scarf
    Nature:Adamant
    Evs: 4hp/252atk/252spe

    Q Quake
    U-turn
    Outrage
    Thunder punch

    Punch is for that Gyarados i'm worried about and outrage is for other dragons. Flygon's scarf set makes him out to be more of a revenge killer then a sweeper. But his immunity to spikes, 1/2 damage from poison and rocks gives him the ability to switch in on hazards without worry.

    Mix Mence: Life orb
    Nature: Rash
    Evs: 80atk/252 s.atk/176 spe

    Draco Meteor
    Fire blast
    Brick Break
    Roost

    Well i needed at least one crazy threat in this failed team... so here he is. Draco meteor is such a great move :D and fire blast if so all those pain in the rear steal types that need to die so badly. Brick break is mainly for any walls that are crazy enough to try and wall Mence. Roost to cover for LO and also softens Ice beam hits. All in all he removes alot of lucarios threats.

    Lucario: Life orb
    Nature: adamant
    Evs: 252atk/4 atk/ 252 def

    Swords Dance
    Extreme Speed
    Close Combat
    Crunch

    I needed a clean up crew at the end game with the ability remove those last pokes. Close combat is for the walls that may try and stop it and crunch is for the ghost pokes that may come out and try to stop Extreme speed and C combat. Main goal is to kill enough pokes so Lucario can setup safer and clean up more efficiently.


    Conclusion
    Also thinking for using some sort of T-Tar over Weavile. Any opinions? :o

    And well that's it my first attempt, so at least reply with some sort of advice even if you think it's not worth wasting (please :P).
  2. Haunter

    Haunter 100% avocado
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    Bumping this thread since descriptions have been fixed.
  3. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
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    well first of all you may want a better anti lead, Dragonite fuctions very well and is was well used by LR in one of his amazing warstories (the set is on the analysis page). Also Forrstress does not really fit on this team as this is an offensive team.
    A Scarf or LO heatran can be used over Forretress as it takes care of steels (you only have one fire move on this team) and can take fire moves directed at Lucario.

    Cya
  4. corncake22

    corncake22

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    Weavile-If you have problems with Ape and Bronzong leads go with Anti-Lead Dragonite. It is very powerful and can take alot of the leads. Quiet with Life Orb. 252Attack/252SpA/4speed. Dracometeor/Fireblast/Earthquake/Extremespeed. Extremespeed is priorty and the other 3 moves is pretty much common sense. If you hate spore leads go with a Lum berry but I don't really recommend it.

    Swampert-Fine.

    Fortress-A defensive wall needs a bit of special defence. So I recommend Careful with leftovers. Spikes/Toxicspikes or EQ if Lucario comes and walls you/Payback/rapidspin. 252hp/44attack/212SpD. This makes you wall CM latias as it will always 2 hit ko the thing.

    Flygon-Nothing wrong. But if you find problems now with 3 dragons then use ScarfRotom-H. This takes out 3 dragons if you take the dragonite suggestion and now you can counter SD Scizors and SDLuke. Shadowball/Thunderbolt/Overheat/Trick.

    Mixmence-Great but having 2 dragons IMO is not a great idea.

    Lucario-Fine.

    Sorry for the quick rate. But anyway good luck :D
  5. IbukiX

    IbukiX

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    I liked the suggestions you both made about the anti-lead dragonite. But i'm gonna hold off on the heatran because i want to see if a few swaps can make a difference.

    I'm going to use the Dragonite idea, pull the flygon out for the Scarfed Rotom-H ( this allows me fire coverage and a spin blocker for my set-ups). Change forretress to...

    Forretress: Left overs
    Nature: calm
    Evs: 252hp/44attack/212SpD
    Toxic spikes
    Spikes/E Quake
    Rapid Spin
    Pay back

    Because I lost Weavile i don't have a pursuit user (although looking back at it, I'm doubting weavile could survive its initial use) I play on using a Choice Banded T-Tar.

    Tyranitar: Choice Band
    Nature: Adamant
    Evs: 160hp/252atk/96spe
    Pursuit
    Crunch
    Stone edge
    Aqua Tail

    Gives me the dark coverage and can make up for losing my mixed mence. From what i heard this guy can cover for alot of Lucario's problems.

    I wasn't very sure of Rotom's and Tyranitar's EV spreads so i looked them up. So i really don't know if those are out of date at all.

    So the team at a glance would change too:

    Dragonite ANTI LEAD

    Forretress @ Left Overs As suggested

    Mixed Swampert @ Left OversRemains the same

    Tyranitar @ Choice Band

    Rotom-H @ Scarf

    Lucario @ Life Orb

    Cut my dragons down by 2 and i believe gives me an over all offensive boost.

    Suggestions?
  6. corncake22

    corncake22

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    Not CB since Luke can outspeed I think so I recommend Scarf. Always go Crunch on Rotom-H because some of them pack WoW. Jolly choice scarf. 4hp/252attack/252speed. Crunch/Superpower/Stone edge/Pursuit.

    Good luck :D
  7. IbukiX

    IbukiX

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    Thx bro :3
  8. Alan

    Alan

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    If you plan on keeping weavile give it Counter >> Brick Break. This way you can actually hurt stuff like Metagross and other Physical Attackers. Keep Ice Shard for a last breath attacking move. Lead Ape shouldn't be a problem for two reasons: you outspeed it, and Inner Focus (which I'm assuming it has) prevents flinching, so you just use Counter the first turn. If you want to use Lead Infernape (beats more leads than Weavile)

    Infernape @ Focus Sash
    Naive Nature
    Trait: Blaze
    64 Attack/192 Speed/252 Special Attack
    -Close Combat
    -Overheat
    -Fake Out
    -Stealth Rock

    If you replace Weavile with the above set then use a RestTalk Pert (imo), or replace it with a RestTalk Rotom-a, because your team is sever status weak and if you are going to set up Spikes/Toxic Spikes, you don't want them getting spun away, Rotom-a also grants you a Fighting and Ground type immunity. Also, you can use Rotom-a to lure in a pursuiter locked into Pursuit to set up Swords Dance on Lucario.

    Sorry for a short rate, but I'm pretty tired. I might come back tomorrow and elaborate on it.

    Not a bad team for a first try, better than my first team.

    Good luck.
  9. IbukiX

    IbukiX

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    I appreciate the feed back :).

    Ya i tried to build a team around Pokemon i like (Dragonite, Lucario, flareon and Umbreon). Flareon is complete crap... and umbreon is only really good in UU. Dragonite i was happy to find that it had a place in OU but i couldn't figure out a way to use it because Salamence was so much better. So co-incidence or not the DNite anti-lead people suggested was a sure hit home for me. Lucario it great from what i heard in OU so that was auto-inclusion.

    One thing i learned is that playing with favorites is a sure fire way to lose, unless they're actually good in the meta game :P.

    From suggestions i took from previous people and some swap outs for my own i'm looking at a team like this...

    Anti-Lead:

    Dragonite @ life orb
    Nature: Quiet
    EVs: 252atk/252 sp.atk/4 spe
    Draco Meteor
    Fire Blast
    E Quake
    Extreme Speed

    Oddly enough was suggested by two people. Good lead from looking at it, good type coverage and a strong priority attack that forces other leads to pick carefully other wise it's a quick KO in my favor. This anti-lead was changed from the previous weavile set.


    Set Up:

    Swampert @ left overs
    Nature: Relaxed
    EVs: 252hp/4atk/252def
    Stealth Rock
    E Quake
    Ice Beam
    Roar

    Swampert remains untouched from previous set. Comes after Dragonites lead to set up Rocks. Also a reliable ice beamer for dragons. I chose roar for the last slot to shoo away Gyarados from setting up on him.




    Sweepers:

    Rotom-H @ Choice Scarf
    Nature: Modest
    EVs: 4hp/252sp.atk/252spe
    Shadow Ball
    Thunder Bolt
    Over Heat
    Trick

    Spin blocker, Gyarados and Vaporeon blaster and removes steels all in one. Trick is to make stallers life hell, i really liked the suggestion. Not really sure about it's EV spread.

    Edit: Not sure if i should remove him after the inclusion of a scarfed latias/flygon

    Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 4hp/252atk/252spd
    Crunch
    Super Power
    Stone Edge
    Pursuit

    Changed from the previous Choice banded set that i was going to use instead of Weavile. Gets rid of a good amount of threats to lucario, and is a monstrous threat of his own. I'm hoping Sand Stream doesn't cause problems for me because i'm running two Life Orbed pokes in this team.

    Lucario @ Life Orb
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252atk/4def/252spe
    Swords Dance
    Close Combat
    Extreme Speed
    Crunch/ Ice Punch/ Stone Edge/ Bullet Punch

    Untouched from last set except bullet punch is under biggest consideration.
    I needed a clean up crew at the end game with the ability remove those last pokes. Close combat is for the walls that may try and stop it. Bullet punch is under consideration in order to bring a halt to Tyranitars. Main goal is to kill enough pokes so Lucario can setup safer and clean up more efficiently.

    UNDER CONISDERATION TO REPLACE FORRETRESS:

    Latias @ Choice Scarf
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Moveset:
    Draco Meteor
    Surf
    Dragon Pulse/Thunder Bolt
    Trick

    A revenge killer designed to smash Salamences, can either be switched in on the DD or perferably on the revenge kill in order to rid the field of the menace. Surf is a good move if a Tyranitar is predicted, but is extremely risky at best see'n as how that monster can easily take 2 Surfs + SR damage in order to KO it. If surf doesnt hit on the switch in... Latias is as good as Pursuit bait, but at least i can bring lucario in on a pursuit locked T-Tar. Dragon pulse is a more reliable move then Draco Meteor if i don't feel that switching out is necessary and most can be used over thunderbolt provided that Rotom stays with the party. Trick of course is for the walls and gains latias the ability to switch moves for cost of it's sash (Usually nets a Left overs from walls :D).

    Latias does not add a second 4x weakness to ice. ( only 2... and a pursuit weakness).


    Flygon @ choice scarf
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Moveset:
    Earth Quake
    Outrage
    U-Turn
    Stone edge/ Fire Blast

    Flygon is a great revenge killer with the ability to rid my team of Dragon problems. What makes him sweeter is his amazing scouting abilities and his resistances to entry hazards (since i lost my rapid spinner for him). He allows me to scout out potential problems and bring in the correct answers when any other attack just doesn't seem practical or usefull. This can allow me to set my sweepers like Lucario or to lure out a bolt beamer etc and respond with Rotom or Latias. I can even lure out one of Flygons counters and U-Turn for Swampert to tank a hit and set up stealth rocks.
    Fire blast may be the choice for flygon if i choose to remove Rotom in the future and stone edge would be the option to keep other wise. Stone edge is like latias' dragon pulse (a attack that can kill Mence without being locked or forced to switch Ex: outrage and Draco Meteor). Also very little things resists both Stone edge AND earth quake.

    Flygon doesn't have the pursuit weakness, is less effected by entry hazards but brings a 2nd 4x weakness to Ice.


    Afterword: I'm hoping 3 Choice scarfs isn't over kill. That with latias and Rotom that TRICK can remedy this. And with Flygon U-turn would play a large part in cutting down the scarf switching. This is all mainly because loss of rapid spinner + 3 choice items means a lot of switching into hazards.

    Also Flygon benefits from having rotom around to block rapid spin attempts, as entry hazards contribute largely to flygons scouting and KO potential. I've also heard that Flygon + Lucario + Heatran make a tough trio to beat. That would require some further team editing, but if it's worth it then why not?

    If anyone cares to comment on the Heartan + Lucario + Flygon trio, please go right on ahead. Also i'm wondering if that would make my team too attack heavy. HEATRAN would also solve my weakness to BURN problem!
  10. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
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    You could swap Forretress for something else as spikes is nice but not helping this teams offensive style.

    Something like a bulky Gyarados can still be bulky but also help break down pokemon for Lucario.
  11. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    Originally, you had a team that dealt with Salamence fairly well (easier said than done) but I feel that the suggestions given have created a large weakness, though they are making great improvements elsewhere. Originally both Weavile and Flygon would have been helping, and now the best you can hope for is a combination of extremespeeds from Lucario and Dragonite. This means that both must be alive, and that one must be allowed to faint, which is far from ideal.

    Therefore I suggest that you either include Scarf Flygon or scarf Latias again, to outrun and OHKO Salamence after a DD. Alternatively, though much less effective, you could put either Gyro ball and minimum speed, or Explosion on your Forretress rather than Toxic spikes (keeping normal spikes) such that you can KO a Salamence locked into Outrage.

    As for Lucario's last move, I think they are all of approximately equal merit bar Ice Punch, which is useless. All Gliscor and Salamence will outrun you and OHKO you before you can use it.

    Good luck.
  12. IbukiX

    IbukiX

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    So as both JC and Ginganinja suggested i should just remove forrestress for something else? Would losing a Rapid spinner be detrimental with all the choice items and Life orbs? And would sticking in another dragon again in his spot just make me too weak to ice. Or would it not matter since Dragonite is the lead to begin with.
  13. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
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    Losing Rapid Spin is not 2 bad on this team and Forry slows down this teams momentum. Try Flygon and Latias however I think that Latias may work better as then you could not run scarf on rotom (or drop it for something else). Scarf latias still counters Gyarados and Vaporeon and the Pursuit weakness it not 2 bad because Lucario can set up on a poke locked into Pursuit anyway.
  14. IbukiX

    IbukiX

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    Ahh crap that's true... but if i drop rotom i lose the ability to stop gyarados. It also gave me a solid fire attack + spin blocker. There's nothing else out there with the ability to blow up salamences that can replace forretress? Can i stick a choice banded weavile in to Ice shard it to death? Or am i going to need to drop forretress for another dragon and then drop Rotom for something else to counter gyarados?

    There's also the other suggestion of putting explosion on forretress and use it to blow salamence (provided i don't get fire blasted from a mix mence) into the abyss.
  15. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
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    Um, you can still have Rotom as I was suggersting Latias over Forry as it also counters Gyarados and is a nice check to salamence. You can still use Rotom however I was mindfull that if you use Latias then you have three scarfers and authough thats ok I was wondering if Rotom still needed a scarf if Latias replaced Forry as Latias seems to check much of the same stuff your rotom is.

    Well the only other exploding steels are Metagross and Heatran. Both could work but they are if counters for dragons at best. Scarf Flygon and Latias are your best bets.

    Also run with Bullet Punch on Lucario as your team can stop Rotom and Celebi pretty well anyway, and the last thing you need is a scarf T-tar switching in to kill you.
  16. IbukiX

    IbukiX

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    I thought the point of a Scarfed rotom was to blow up Gyarados. Wouldn't removing the scarf mean he would lose the speed it needs to win in the race? So i replace Forretress with a Scarfed Latias or Flygon, and keep the rotom. Do i change the rotom to a different type of rotom?
  17. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
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    You can keep rotom or drop it if you want for something that helps your team better if you wish. Latias becomes your Gyarados counter instead of Rotom
    Also can you update the team with the changes you made as im kinda a visual kind of guy and im not sure what the current team looks like with all the suggestians being made
  18. IbukiX

    IbukiX

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    I edited post #9 to give everyone a visual, i placed latias and flygon in their own section and listed each their benefits (from what i see) to my team and what they bring to the table.


    Just wanna thank the people who've responded thus far, even if the Just wanna thank the people who've responded thus far, even if the team aint great. Having to think of fixes and changes helps me understand the META game a little better.

    EDIT
    I brought post #9 to the bottom for easy reading.

    Anti-Lead:

    Dragonite @ life orb
    Nature: Quiet
    EVs: 252atk/252 sp.atk/4 spe
    Draco Meteor
    Fire Blast
    E Quake
    Extreme Speed

    Oddly enough was suggested by two people. Good lead from looking at it, good type coverage and a strong priority attack that forces other leads to pick carefully other wise it's a quick KO in my favor. This anti-lead was changed from the previous weavile set.


    Set Up:

    Swampert @ left overs
    Nature: Relaxed
    EVs: 252hp/4atk/252def
    Stealth Rock
    E Quake
    Ice Beam
    Roar

    Swampert remains untouched from previous set. Comes after Dragonites lead to set up Rocks. Also a reliable ice beamer for dragons. I chose roar for the last slot to shoo away Gyarados from setting up on him.




    Sweepers:

    Rotom-H @ Choice Scarf
    Nature: Modest
    EVs: 4hp/252sp.atk/252spe
    Shadow Ball
    Thunder Bolt
    Over Heat
    Trick

    Spin blocker, Gyarados and Vaporeon blaster and removes steels all in one. Trick is to make stallers life hell, i really liked the suggestion. Not really sure about it's EV spread.

    Edit: Not sure if i should remove him after the inclusion of a scarfed latias/flygon

    Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 4hp/252atk/252spd
    Crunch
    Super Power
    Stone Edge
    Pursuit

    Changed from the previous Choice banded set that i was going to use instead of Weavile. Gets rid of a good amount of threats to lucario, and is a monstrous threat of his own. I'm hoping Sand Stream doesn't cause problems for me because i'm running two Life Orbed pokes in this team.

    Lucario @ Life Orb
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252atk/4def/252spe
    Swords Dance
    Close Combat
    Extreme Speed
    Crunch/ Ice Punch/ Stone Edge/ Bullet Punch

    Untouched from last set except bullet punch is under biggest consideration.
    I needed a clean up crew at the end game with the ability remove those last pokes. Close combat is for the walls that may try and stop it. Bullet punch is under consideration in order to bring a halt to Tyranitars. Main goal is to kill enough pokes so Lucario can setup safer and clean up more efficiently.

    UNDER CONISDERATION TO REPLACE FORRETRESS:

    Latias @ Choice Scarf
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Moveset:
    Draco Meteor
    Surf
    Dragon Pulse/Thunder Bolt
    Trick

    A revenge killer designed to smash Salamences, can either be switched in on the DD or perferably on the revenge kill in order to rid the field of the menace. Surf is a good move if a Tyranitar is predicted, but is extremely risky at best see'n as how that monster can easily take 2 Surfs + SR damage in order to KO it. If surf doesnt hit on the switch in... Latias is as good as Pursuit bait, but at least i can bring lucario in on a pursuit locked T-Tar. Dragon pulse is a more reliable move then Draco Meteor if i don't feel that switching out is necessary and most can be used over thunderbolt provided that Rotom stays with the party. Trick of course is for the walls and gains latias the ability to switch moves for cost of it's sash (Usually nets a Left overs from walls :D).

    Latias does not add a second 4x weakness to ice. ( only 2... and a pursuit weakness).


    Flygon @ choice scarf
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Moveset:
    Earth Quake
    Outrage
    U-Turn
    Stone edge/ Fire Blast

    Flygon is a great revenge killer with the ability to rid my team of Dragon problems. What makes him sweeter is his amazing scouting abilities and his resistances to entry hazards (since i lost my rapid spinner for him). He allows me to scout out potential problems and bring in the correct answers when any other attack just doesn't seem practical or usefull. This can allow me to set my sweepers like Lucario or to lure out a bolt beamer etc and respond with Rotom or Latias. I can even lure out one of Flygons counters and U-Turn for Swampert to tank a hit and set up stealth rocks.
    Fire blast may be the choice for flygon if i choose to remove Rotom in the future and stone edge would be the option to keep other wise. Stone edge is like latias' dragon pulse (a attack that can kill Mence without being locked or forced to switch Ex: outrage and Draco Meteor). Also very little things resists both Stone edge AND earth quake.

    Flygon doesn't have the pursuit weakness, is less effected by entry hazards but brings a 2nd 4x weakness to Ice.


    Afterword: I'm hoping 3 Choice scarfs isn't over kill. That with latias and Rotom that TRICK can remedy this. And with Flygon U-turn would play a large part in cutting down the scarf switching. This is all mainly because loss of rapid spinner + 3 choice items means a lot of switching into hazards.

    Also Flygon benefits from having rotom around to block rapid spin attempts, as entry hazards contribute largely to flygons scouting and KO potential. I've also heard that Flygon + Lucario + Heatran make a tough trio to beat. That would require some further team editing, but if it's worth it then why not?

    If anyone cares to comment on the Heartan + Lucario + Flygon trio, please go right on ahead. Also i'm wondering if that would make my team too attack heavy. HEATRAN would also solve my weakness to BURN problem!

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