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First Team: Dual-Type Takedown!

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by BreederMarcus, Apr 30, 2012.

  1. BreederMarcus

    BreederMarcus

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1
    Hi everyone. I'm new to competitive Pokemon Battling and I'm getting started with a few friends of mine. I found this place and I'm hoping to learn a lot.

    For now even though I know this is all about competitiveness, I'm still dead set on making my first team follow a few guidelines... for now.

    • No legendaries
    • All Pokemon used must be two types
    • No types can repeat

    Yes I know trying to limit myself like this in a competitive atmosphere might be illogical but I really really really want to, and more importantly I want to see if a team built on these rules can stand up to others. For now most of this post will be focused on finding the best combination of team members and once that's settled, I'll focus more on movesets. (Also, I'd like this team to have a good transition into 5th Gen after I'm done battling my friends so please keep that in mind when offering advice and tips as well.)

    Note: No moveset, EV spread, or even team position (lead, etc.) is set in stone so don't think that a Pokemon has to be changed just because of those things, better ideas on how to use certain Pokemon are much appreciated.

    Current team idea:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    In Depth:

    My team seems to by very offensive right now and is weak to status since 4 of my Pokemon rely on attack and basically all rely on speed, so I gave Togekiss Heal Bell to try and help with this problem. Besides that, I generally like having my Pokemon have as much coverage as possible to keep constant switching to a minimum. Obvious flaws that even I see is that I basically have no defense (though I'm hoping that in the world of competitive Pokemon battling, a good offense turns out to be a good defense), and I have no way of removing entry hazards (Togekiss will be suffering the most from Stealth Rock).

    [​IMG]
    Infernape @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 64 Atk / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
    Hasty Nature (+Spe, -Def)
    - Fake Out
    - Stealth Rock
    - Fire Blast
    - Close Combat

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Rock Slide
    - Crunch
    - Earthquake

    [​IMG]
    Metagross @ Life Orb
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 60 HP / 252 Atk / 196 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    - Agility
    - Meteor Mash
    - Earthquake
    - ThunderPunch

    [​IMG]
    Mamoswine @ Choice Band
    Trait: Snow Cloak
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Adament Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Shard
    - Stone Edge
    - Superpower

    [​IMG]
    Gengar @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Pain Split
    - Shadow Ball
    - ThunderBolt

    [​IMG]
    Togekiss @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
    Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
    - Air Slash
    - Thunder Wave
    - Heal Bell
    - Roost

    Possible replacements list:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    For Infernape:

    [​IMG]
    Gallade
    I like how Gallade has few weaknesses and I plan to use a Bulk Up/Drain Punch style set if he is used. (Metagross will have to be replaces with Scizor though.)

    [​IMG]
    Breloom
    Poison Heal/Toxic Orb keeps Breloom from being affected from status and I'd use him the same as Gallade (Bulk Up/Drain Punch), but It's still rather frail and has a couple of weaknesses. (Can Replace Infernape without effecting the rest of the team.)

    For Metagross:

    [​IMG]
    Bronzong
    Replacing Metagross with Brongzong would add some much needed defense to my team with a Light Screen/Reflect style set, but Metagross' power would surely be missed. (Can Replace Metagross without effecting the rest of the team.)

    [​IMG]
    Scizor
    I like Scizor, everyone agrees that he looks awesome and he'll maintain Metagross' power while adding powerful priority with Technician/Bullet Punch. I'll also be able to use him much like Metagross with Agility to turn him into a sweeper. The problem I don't like about him though, is that he is extremely over used even in OU, but since I'm already giving myself handicaps with no legendaries or type repeats I guess I shouldn't feel bad about it. (Can replace Metagross without effecting the rest of the team and would allow Starmie to join.)

    For Togekiss:

    [​IMG]
    Kingdra
    Kingdra can be used to abuse opposing rain teams, but that seems to be more common in 5th Gen with Politoad and not so much in DPP which is what my friends and I are using right now. With only one weakness and the ability to learn water, dragon, and ice moves, Kingdra would be able to cover a few of my team's weaknesses and be a useful dragon slayer. I plan to use him with a Rain Dance set during the second half of battles and after Tyranitar, Metagross, and Mamoswine, the rest of my team would constantly be hit with the sandstorm, so changing the weather after awhile might be beneficial.

    [​IMG]
    Starmie
    Finally there's Starmie, it's fast, powerful, and could provide my team with the Rapid Spin support it needs. The BoltBeam combo I hear so much about also sounds promising. (Metagross would have to be replaced with Scizor though, but to be honest while writing this post, adding Starmie with Scizor even with the loss of Metagross sounds a bit better...but I'm still unsure.)

    Note: Feel free to suggest other replacement Pokemon that could fit the team, everything is on the table as long as it follows the guidelines I want for my team.

    I look forward to hearing the help and advice the Smogon community has to offer. :)
  2. broodjekebab

    broodjekebab

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    103
    Having both DDTtar and agiliGross may work in tandem to defeat Swampert, but it will still fail against Skarmory. A mixed Ttar (bait/lure) with Fire Blast may help in that respect.

    Mamoswine is awesome for beating Dnite and hitting hard in general, but a Choice Band means you will need to switch out a lot (since his moves are very specific and easily walled). That is not really an option, since you lack defense. You could give Mamoswine a different item (life orb? expert belt?), or swap some team members. Overall your team seems unable to effectively deal with water-types. Gengar and Metagross hit them hard but they're hit back pretty hard too. Maybe a Celebi would help, which also provides a more consistent answer to fighting-types than the ever so frail Gengar.

    Overall, I like the idea of restrictions, but your team needs either more of an offensive goal or more solid defensive pokemon.
  3. 2sly4u

    2sly4u

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2010
    Messages:
    535
    You need specific descriptions for every one of your pokemon. Tell us why you picked your EVs and moves, and also the pokemon's role on your team. It makes rating a team much easier.

    From what I can see though, your weak link is Togekiss. It's supposed to serve as a support pokemon (I'm guessing, since there are no descriptions), but her teammates are generally too frail to need a Cleric. The pokemon this team REALLY needs is a Support Gliscor, which would let Infernape grab a Choice Scarf and become a revenge killer and give you a fighting pkm check while still giving you a SR user. Unfortunately, that would break your rules. I suppose Celebi could be used in its place to handle Fighting Types. However, that still leaves you open to Lucario, who can pretty much 6-0 you once Metagross is weakened a bit.

    In reality, while the restrictions you've placed on yourself can be fun, it's pretty much impossible to make a top-tier team with them in effect. I'd build a normal team first, become more experienced, then try again. Sorry for being a debbie downer :/
  4. Mulligan

    Mulligan

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    574
    It's tough to rate a team when there are no descriptions under each Pokémon to let us know what their role/job is on the team, but I will give it a shot.

    The previous raters definitely notated some good stuff. You have enough firepower to muscle through Swampert with your offensive synergy, but I am more concerned about these threats:
    • Life Orb Starmie
    • Offensive Suicune[to a lesser extent]
    • Dragon Dance Tyranitar
    • Scizor[any variant]

    It seems the focus of the team is on Tyranitar and Metagross. The way the team is now, you have to play very aggressively to not allow Life Orb Starmie to come in before Tyranitar or Metagross can boost, which can be difficult since your opponent can just bring it in on the free switch on any member of your team after you KO one of their team members. If Tyranitar or Metagross aren't boosted, your best switch-in is Togekiss...who promptly gets 2HKO'd by Ice Beam(or even Hydro Pump + Ice Beam). I agree that Togekiss is the weak link on this team, overall. I don't know how specific the rules you are going to play by are when it comes to legendaries, but I think a Choice Scarf Zapdos would fit better in that slot, since Zapdos can still cause trouble for teams and not leave you weaker to things like Rotom-A. The set is:

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    Zapdos @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    -U-Turn
    -Heat Wave
    -Thunderbolt
    -Roost


    Roost seems a bit awkward. It can be a decent scouting tool if U-Turn is not feasible though, and it also alleviates the Stealth Rock weakness to a small degree. Feel free to play with that slot, though. You are able to check all non-Scarfed Starmie this way as well as put the hurt on unboosted Suicune. Zapdos also offers an OK switch into Scizor to threaten with Heat Wave, although I will address Scizor later on. Speaking of Heat Wave, it gives you a Fire move and also a way to threaten hazard setters like Forretress and Skarmory(with Thunderbolt) early in the match. U-Turn is for offensive momentum and to control tempo.

    The rest is nitpicks. Dragon Dance Tyranitar can sweep you if they figure out your Gengar doesn't have Focus Blast. I would recommend dropping Thunderbolt for Focus Blast. The accuracy is shaky, but you get perfect type coverage and Thunderbolt is no longer needed since Zapdos has that covered. To further address Scizor, who absolutely murders the current team if Infernape is gone(which will probably be early on), I would actually switch Life Orb for Babiri Berry on Tyranitar and give it Fire Punch over Earthquake. This allows it to lure in Scizor to KO it if it tries to Bullet Punch, but I would save that trick for mid to late game as Scizor will tend to U-Turn early game. You are left slightly weaker to Infernape, but Scarf Zapdos and Gengar can check it. Stone Edge is also an option over Rock Slide, unless you hate it's accuracy as much as I do ;( . The last thing I would recommend is to try a Life Orb with a Jolly nature on Mamoswine. This allows you to outrun all Adamant Lucario and anything slower that it(Heatran, Breloom, etc.). It also manhandles a lot of common Fire/Water/Grass cores as well, with the ability to switch moves.

    tl;dr
    • Choice Scarf Zapdos > Togekiss
    • Tyranitar: Babiri Berry + Fire Punch > Life Orb + Earthquake
    • Gengar: Focus Blast > Thunderbolt
    • Mamoswine: Life Orb + Jolly nature > Choice Band + Adamant nature


    (If Zapdos doesn't work out, you could try something like a Choice Scarf Magneton instead. It traps Scizor, Forretress, and Skarmory and KOs with Hidden Power Fire/Thunderbolt, outspeeds Starmie and threatens Thunderbolt and can Explode on things like Suicune. It will compound your Fighting weakness, though)

    I hope this helps you out. Take care and good luck :)

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