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First VGC Team - Really Standard Goodstuff

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by COCKBLOCK, Jan 1, 2013.

  1. COCKBLOCK

    COCKBLOCK

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2007
    Messages:
    397
    I've been inactive for Pokemon for over a year (like anyone cares) but I decided to try out the VGC metagame. I'm entering that at Apex 2013 since, why not? I basically just took most of my favorite Pokemon and attempted to form some solid synergy around them. I played Gen 4 for a long time, so it's basically Pokemon from that Gen adapted into VGC 2013. Don't really have the patience for long descriptions so I apologize beforehand. I did do so some digging around looking at good RMT's for some EV spreads, so I copied a lot of stuff.

    Preview:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    ight so in detail we got V




    [​IMG]
    Garchomp (M) @ Haban Berry
    Trait: Sand Veil
    EVs: 36 HP / 116 Atk / 4 Def / 196 SDef / 156 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake
    - Protect
    - Substitute

    Copied this set from Ray Rizzo. It basically lets me live Dragon Gem boosted Draco Meteor from Latios, plus OHKO Latios right back with Dragon Claw. It's a really good set to me, however it might seem redundant alongside Tyranitar and Scizor who both handle Latios well. Though same thing might not be said for Salamence/Hydreigon so I'll keep this set for now (it helped the guy win nationals and stuff lololol). Garchomp provides a threat to Fire types who give Scizor trouble. He's also great in Sandstorm thanks to his ability Sand Veil... which is just the most hilarious ability at times. All in all, Garchomp is my top 2 favorite Pokemon and I always loved using him. Good thing he's not banned here!

    [​IMG]
    Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 228 HP / 84 Def / 28 SAtk / 168 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Ice Beam
    - Psyshock
    - Helping Hand
    - Thunder Wave


    Cresselia, how I missed you! You're completely dead in singles now but here you're a monster. I honestly don't care for setting up Trick Room, but I have it here as maybe a last resort alongside Tyranitar and/or Scizor. Plus it helps against other Trick Room teams at times (dem early game predictions). With Levitate I can spam Earthquake with Garchomp, which is obviously cool. Psyshock over Psychic simply because I have Tyranitar on my team where Psyshock bypasses the SpDef boost given to my opponent Terrakion. Helping Hand is pretty filler but it helps boost Garchomp's Earthquake by 50% (as a spread move its move is decreased from 100 to 75 BP iirc correct me if I'm wrong).

    Changed this spread almost completely. I really did not like Trick Room for this team. It did me more harm than good. With that I changed its spread to a Calm nature spread and added Thunder Wave.

    [​IMG]
    Scizor (M) @ Flying Gem
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite
    - Acrobatics
    - Protect


    Scizor is my absolute favorite Pokemon of all time... and every lesbian's favorite Pokemon. I literally ripped this set from Smogon. Wasn't sure if I needed the Bug Gem boost for Cresselia (considering the lack of Protect on Cress and the abundance of Protect on... everyone else, I'll double team him if I have to) or Flying Gem boosted Acrobatics considering I have Zapdos. Might need help here. For now, I have Occa Berry to take random Hidden Power Fire's and weaker, unstabbed Heat Wave's. Having a steel type is absolutely needed with all of the Draco Meteor's flying around.

    I made this change a while ago. Occa Berry and Superpower are both bad on Scizor. Decided to go with Acrobatics as I could not find much use of Swords Dance.

    [​IMG]
    Gastrodon-East (Gastrodon) (F) @ Ground Gem
    Trait: Storm Drain
    EVs: 156 HP / 68 Def / 236 SAtk / 44 SDef
    Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
    - Protect
    - Recover
    - Ice Beam
    - Earth Power

    Gastrodon is actually good now. Who would have thought? Storm Drain really sold me between Swampert (originally on my Gen 4 team) and Gastrodon. Because of this Water immunity, I can now take on Rain Dance teams more effectively. Ludicolo is still REALLY HARD to fight, though. But I'm lucky to have Tyranitar on my side to take away weather when I need to. Speaking of TTar, Gastrodon does a good job in taking him out as well as Metagross, Heatran, and most Dragons. The main weakness this guy has is his overall mediocre build, both offensively and defensively. But the gem helps boost Earth Power and Recover helps gain extra survivability. With that, he's also good under Trick Room when I need it. I love this guy!

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar (M) @ Passho Berry
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 44 HP / 248 Atk / 216 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Rock Slide
    - Superpower
    - Crunch
    - Protect


    EVs always let me survive unboosted Meteor Mash from Metagross and the Attack EVs are filler to give him more power. This is my number one answer to TR Chandelure especially. I always just throw him in the lead spot when I see Chandelure in team preview. Crunch for STAB against Cresselia + mentioned Chandelure. I have Fire Punch instead of Low Kick to do more damage to both Scizor and Ferrothorn, plus I feel I have plenty of answers for opposing Tyranitars anyway. This guy is especially helpful vs Thundurus, as there isn't a move Tyranitar cares for when fighting him other than obscure Focus Blast and Grass Knot.

    Chople Berry proved to be ineffective. Passho Berry in conjunction with Zapdos's Volt Switch has been doing well for me, especially if I make a misprediction and get Water Gem Hydro Pump'd. Also changed the EV spread to actually outspeed most Rotom-W.

    [​IMG]
    Zapdos @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 204 HP / 164 SAtk / 140 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Volt Switch
    - Heat Wave
    - Hidden Power [Flying]

    Zapdos is the final member. I chose the Choice Specs moveset because I did not yet have a member with immediate offensive pressure. Volt Switch in particular is very interesting when leading. It's a neat tool to push momentum and get a desirable matchup early game. Specs Thunderbolt 2HKO's most standard Tyranitars as well. I decided against gem because I wanted to have high power with multiple moves at the course of the whole match. The Speed EV's put me ahead of Modest 252 Spe Kingdra outside of Rain. Finally, he completes the Cress/Zapdos/Gastrodon/Scizor core I like oh so much.
    ---
    This is my first VGC team, I think I did well in making this but I'm still learning so I could use some help. Thank you in advance.

    Edits in bold
  2. M. Rock

    M. Rock

    Joined:
    May 21, 2010
    Messages:
    456
    Pretty solid team for a first attempt. Just a few nitpicks:

    - There was a typo on Cresselia, are you using Ice Beam or Icy Wind? Ice Beam is good for a little extra muscle, and with a minimum of 28 SpA EVs, it can 2HKO Thundurus and Tornadus. Icy Wind allows you to have a good degree of speed control: you could try to slow down the opponent's whole team, or if their entire team already outspeeds the majority of yours, then use Trick Room. So TR would help out your mostly slow team, but you'd use Icy Wind instead if they have slowmons that can also abuse TR. This basically gives you the versatility to give yourself an advantage by whatever means you can. Thunder Wave can achieve the same as Icy Wind, but it's more potent and will miss out on Garchomp. Just some food for thought, the choice is ultimately yours.

    - Superpower is a bad move on Scizor. It used to be the old standard, but enough people were upset at -1 Atk/-1 Def leaving him as total deadweight. So I have two alternate suggestions:
    a. Acrobatics + Flying Gem. It gets the Technician AND Gem boost on the first hit, so you have a disgustingly powerful attack that with either OHKO or severly damage most Fighting-Types and fellow bug types. Occa Berry isn't terribly useful, sorry to say. Even at full health, Fire attacks nearly kill him, so you have a kind of useful berry that means he can't have a power item. After using him in doubles enough you'll learn that Occa Berry isn't fantastic and that it's just better to leave him away from Fire types altogether.
    b. Swords Dance + Steel Gem. I get the feeling that you will have plenty of opportunities to set up Trick Room. The first turn after it goes up, your opponent is almost guaranteed to double-protect. That's how most players try to stall it out. You can punish them for that by getting in a free Swords Dance! So now even after TR shuts off Scizor is still a terrifying monster to behold with Bullet Punch!

    - Okay I see you took a liking to Ray's Fire Punch Tyranitar. The only reason he gave his Ttar Fire Punch was because his team specifically had trouble with Scizor. With Zapdos, Gastrodon, and your own Scizor, I think you are more than prepared for the metal bug, so try out Low Kick. It's generally more reliable, at least for me.

    - Just out of curiosity, what does Zapdos's EVs allow it to outspeed?

    Hope I helped, happy battling! :toast:
  3. COCKBLOCK

    COCKBLOCK

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2007
    Messages:
    397
    Yeah that's supposed to be Ice Beam.

    I'll try both Scizor sets and see which is better. I just played a couple rounds today and hated Superpower. Which means that Low Kick becomes that much more useful on Tyranitar, so I'll change that too.

    The Speed EV's for Zapdos put me ahead of Modest 252 Spe Kingdra outside of Rain. Plus Ludicolo.

    edit: Yeah when I saw Occa Berry at first, I wanted to know why. Like, what notable Fire moves can I survive. Needless to say I couldn't find much uses.
  4. COCKBLOCK

    COCKBLOCK

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    Dec 29, 2007
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    Bumping this because I made a couple of edits.

    Also, what do you think of adding Suicune over Gastrodon?
  5. tlyee61

    tlyee61

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
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    377
    on cress, go 252 HP / 52 Def / 28 SpAtk / 176 SpDef
    survives volcarona bug gem bug buzz+top fake out, ttar crunch, 2hkos genies with ice beam, terrakion/top/virizion with psyshock.

    scizor 4 speed < 4 spdef to never be ohkoed by max spatk modest cress' hp fire

    honestly I would go scarf on ttar to get the jump on genies and latios and go EQ < protect

    terrakion might go good over gastro or garchomp because it also has great synergy with zappy/cress/scizor and gets a spdef boost in sand!!
  6. Enraikou

    Enraikou

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    Messages:
    77
    I have some doubts, first you said that the 116 EV on SpDef on garchomp will take a Dragon gem Draco meteor from latios, but I did some calculations with this <http://honko.byethost8.com/manly_calc.html> and;
    248 SpA Dragon Gem Latios Draco Meteor vs. 36 HP / 116 SpD Haban Berry Garchomp: 178-211 (94.68 - 112.23%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO So it can survive against dragon gem boosted, a small chance btw. But it can survive if the Latios is holding LO:
    248 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 36 HP / 116 SpD Haban Berry Garchomp: 153-183 (81.38 - 97.34%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Other thing, I don't get the EV spread on Gastrondon, I think this can be better, since your runnig a Sp.Atker one:
    Gastrondon @Earth Gem
    -Earth Power
    -Ice Beam
    -Recover
    -Protect
    252HP, 100Sp.Atk, 20 Def, 136 SpDef

    The Sp.atk can OHKO Metagross, 2OHKO Latios, Tyranitar, Hydreigon, Garchomp(without yache berry) and Heatran
    100+ SpA Gastrodon Ice Beam vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 188-224 (100 - 119.14%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    100+ SpA Ground Gem Gastrodon Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 188-224 (100.53 - 119.78%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    100+ SpA Ground Gem Gastrodon Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar: 174-206 (84.05 - 99.51%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    100+ SpA Ground Gem Gastrodon Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Shuca Berry Heatran: 168-198 (100.59 - 118.56%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    And the 252 HP, 20 Def and 136SpD is for bulky, surviving to SpAtk Latios:
    248 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 136 SpD Gastrodon: 156-185 (71.55 - 84.86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  7. TheMantyke

    TheMantyke slow
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    Alright, I guess I'll try my hand at a rate.

    Overall, you have a very solid team in terms of what Pokemon you're using. I don't see any glaring synergetic flaws; you have solid offensive and defensive synergy going for you and you don't seem to be especially vulnerable to any team archetype. As such, pretty much all of my suggestions are somewhat minor move set and EV changes.

    On Gastrodon, are you getting much use out of Recover? Recover on Gastrodon is useful, but you've got a pretty offensive Gastrodon build at the moment to the point where recover doesn't seem to helpful. If you're sticking with your more offensive spread, I would run Muddy Water > Recover. Muddy Water gives you a fantastic secondary STAB and works well alongside Cresselia's Helping Hand. Even if you do stick with Recover, at least replace Ice Beam with Muddy Water as its such a nice STAB to be passing up.

    I think that your choice of item and EV spread on Tyranitar are pretty strange. There's not much reason to want to outspeed Rotom-W or take one of its Hydro Pumps when you have Gastrodon on your team to shut it down (especially when you can pull off some cool moves like Volt Switching into Gastrodon). You could refine it to make it a bit more useful. You can try:

    A) Dumping your Speed EVs into HP and making Tyranitar a Special Tank, especially useful versus Rain. I would also recommend switching your item to a Dark Gem since your natural bulk allows you to pick a more offensive item

    B) Investing solely in Attack and Speed, switching to a Jolly nature, and giving Tyranitar a Choice Scarf. Your team lacks immediate speed outside of Scizor's Bullet Punch and could use a Pokemon over the Base 111 hump when you don't have a Fake Out user to help Cresselia with its speed control duties.

    Hope this quick advice helps.
  8. COCKBLOCK

    COCKBLOCK

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    Thanks for the suggestions.

    I appreciate the EV spread suggestions especially because I only started playing recently and have never really made spreads anyway.

    I tried out Choice Scarf Tyranitar and it helped out a lot, and I said the same thing about not having any immediate fast Pokemon.

    Recover helped out a ton in practice, but not so much recently. I'll replace it with Muddy Water.

    Again I can't really explain why I chose EV spreads since I copied most of them. But Garchomp has been surviving against Draco Meteor from Latios all of the time, but I suppose I just got lucky then since I never bothered to check via damage calculator.

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