Fixed Damage Metagame

[apt-get]

at last, electivire...

You're finally good!

 

[Albacore]

I would like to note that Combee gets a movepool of a whopping like 3 moves

Most prevos have awful movepools compared to their evos, which is something you've completely not considered in that list.

That's definitely another thing to consider. Obviously, I'll have to remove Combee.
I'm pretty sure most Pokemon who lose a crucial ability can find a niche. But if they don't get any good moves... yeah, you can't use them.

Then again, movepools which are awful in Standard can actually be pretty good here. If all a Pokemon gains by evolving is Focus Blast and it already has Drain Punch (Abra, for instance), then there's really no point in evolving.

at last, electivire...

You're finally good!

You have to remember that pretty much everything gets Electivire-level coverage. Although that defensive typing is pretty great.

 

[chaostothemax]

Remember people, you should always try to get the lowest amount of HP you possibly can on your Pokemon, unless the Pokemon in question is a Wish Passer.
Here's a list of Pokemon who outclass their evolutions in one way or another:

Bulbusaur has lower HP than Venusaur, and therefore benefits more from Leech Seed and Giga Drain. (this goes for most Grass-types)
Charmeleon doesn't take 50% damage from Stealth Rock.
Vulpix uses Pain Split more efficently than Ninetales.
Abra gets more HP back from Drain Punch (the same goes for many Fighting-types).
Magneton is faster than Magnezone.
Shellder has a better defensive typing than Cloyster, but loses Spikes.
Onix is faster than Steelix and has Weak Armor, but has a far worse defensive typing
Chansey has lower HP than Blissey, therefore less susceptible to Drain Punch.
Staryu has a better defensive typing than Starmie, but loses STAB on Psyshock.
Eevee has Adaptability.
Remoraid has Moody (which will be probably allowed, since it only has an effect 3/7 of the time).
Porygon2 has Trace.
Tyrogue has Guts.
Surskit is faster and has a better typing than Masquerain, but loses Air Slash.
Nincada has a better typing than Ninjask and gets Compound Eyes, but loses Speed Boost.
Bagon has Sheer Force and only takes 12.5% damage from Stealth Rock.
Tynamo is faster than Elektross
Frogadier has a better defensive typing than Greninja

Frogadier having a better typing than Greninja really doesn't seem like it's important considering Protean priority.
Tyrogue loses a ton of moves by not evolving. uts doesn't really make enough of a difference.
Other than that, I think the list looks pretty good.

 

[Yayz]

Remoraid has Moody (which will be probably allowed, since it only has an effect 3/7 of the time).

Moody is banned, not because of the stat boosts, but because of the Evasion boosts. So not quite true.

Otherwise, nice point with everything else!

 

[goodknife]

anyone mention scarf ditto yet?

 

[Swamp-Rocket]

You have to remember that pretty much everything gets Electivire-level coverage. Although that defensive typing is pretty great.

Not many Pokemon get Electric/Ground/Fighting/Ice coverage, which has the best super effective coverage in the game. It means you hit over 600 Pokemon for super effective damage.

Out of everything that gets a STAB on at least one of those, excluding Hidden Power (I'm pretty sure its only it, Nidoqueen, Nidoking, Rhyperior, and Regice) Electivire is the fastest.

 

[Halliday]

Actually the best one is fighting/flying/ground/ice (I think, it's yours but with flying replacing something.)

 

[Albacore]

Frogadier having a better typing than Greninja really doesn't seem like it's important considering Protean priority.

Frogadier can switch into Bug and Fighting-type moves much more easily, and proceed to sweep from there.

 

[YHVH]

Does the fixed damage meta also guarantee that multi-hit moves hit a certain number of times?

 

[Anty]

Actually the best one is fighting/flying/ground/ice (I think, it's yours but with flying replacing something.)

I think the best coverage is electric, flying, ground and fighting after searching the pokemon type coverage calculator. This hit for 612 types se, swamps hits for 605.

The fastest one of these with at least 1 STAB, is nape, with thunder punch, aerial ace, brick break/cc, earthquake

 

[Albacore]

Moody is banned, not because of the stat boosts, but because of the Evasion boosts. So not quite true.

Otherwise, nice point with everything else!

I don't think Evasion will be too much of a problem, since perfect accuracy moves will probably be very common.

I think the best coverage is electric, flying, ground and fighting after searching the pokemon type coverage calculator. This hit for 612 types se, swamps hits for 605.

The fastest one of these with at least 1 STAB, is nape, with thunder punch, aerial ace, brick break/cc, earthquake

Nice job. Infernape seems pretty good, then.

 

[perplexingpool]

It seems to me that you are making the rule set far more complex than it needs to be. It is better to have a simple rule set at first, and just ban things that are found to be broken. Otherwise, the tier becomes very complex and difficult to get into for newer players, filled with exceptions that detract from the creative potential of the meta and devalues the original concept. It seems that you are trying change things (like nerfing priority and rapid spin) just because that's what it's like in standard tiers, but once you start doing that, what's the point? Imo, the reason oms are fun is seeing how a simple mechanic change or the adding/removing of restrictions can change how the game is played. If you're nerfing priority, why not make set up moves actually do something? Maybe make Band and Specs function again? At this point, the decision of what to change and what not to change, and how, becomes arbitrary, and everything just gets messy. Note that all of the most successful oms have a very simple ruleset, and rather than manually nerfing the broken things, have just banned them. Especially seeing as nobody has actually played this meta, how can you possibly know what is or isn't broken without any experience with it?

However, multi-hit moves, particularly along side skill link, seem potentially quite broken to me. Priority, rollout, rapid spin, and all the other moves talked about in this thread seem fine to me. Stall is probably the best play style in this meta, seeing as sweepers don't exist, and even super effective hits can be stalled with recover. Regenerator seems really good too: Amoonguss, Corsola, Tornadus-t, and Audino all have wide movepools and decent typing.

 

[Albacore]

It seems to me that you are making the rule set far more complex than it needs to be. It is better to have a simple rule set at first, and just ban things that are found to be broken. Otherwise, the tier becomes very complex and difficult to get into for newer players, filled with exceptions that detract from the creative potential of the meta and devalues the original concept. It seems that you are trying change things (like nerfing priority and rapid spin) just because that's what it's like in standard tiers, but once you start doing that, what's the point? Imo, the reason oms are fun is seeing how a simple mechanic change or the adding/removing of restrictions can change how the game is played. If you're nerfing priority, why not make set up moves actually do something? Maybe make Band and Specs function again? At this point, the decision of what to change and what not to change, and how, becomes arbitrary, and everything just gets messy. Note that all of the most successful oms have a very simple ruleset, and rather than manually nerfing the broken things, have just banned them. Especially seeing as nobody has actually played this meta, how can you possibly know what is or isn't broken without any experience with it?

The whole "Choice Band doesn't work" thing basically boils down to the fact that everything which boost stats in general have no effect.
But I see what you mean. This confuses a lot of people, and ultimately doesn't seem like a great idea. I might change it if enough people pressure me to.

Otherwise, I haven't really changed anything. The priority/rapid spin nerfs are only suggestions, and haven't "officially" been implemented (the meta doesn't actually exist, so we're just theorymoning everything).

Stall is probably the best play style in this meta, seeing as sweepers don't exist, and even super effective hits can be stalled with recover.

That's really the biggest problem with this meta. Stall is basically the easy way out, and we should try to nerf it if it becomes to dominant (this is all theory, of course)

Regenerator seems really good too: Amoonguss, Corsola, Tornadus-t, and Audino all have wide movepools and decent typing.

Regenerator seems amazing. Adding to the OP.

I'd just like to point out that damage calcs are incredibly easy in this metagame. Knowing exactly how much damage you'll do to everything is a great benefit for more strategical players.

 

[goodknife]

from op, Paralysis cuts speed to 1/4. not in half.

still, nerfed/banned everyting (including priority, multi-hit move or even rapid spin) made this om boring and unpleasant.

 

[Albacore]

from op, Paralysis cuts speed to 1/4. not in half.
still, nerfed/banned everyting (including priority, multi-hit move or even rapid spin) made this om boring and unpleasant.

Nice catch for the paralysis.
Nothing has been banned/nerfed yet besides the obviously broken Smeargle. We're just speculating on what might be broken.

anyone mention scarf ditto yet?

Scarf Ditto would probably be pretty terrible, since sweeping doesn't actually exist.

I think the best coverage is electric, flying, ground and fighting after searching the pokemon type coverage calculator. This hit for 612 types se, swamps hits for 605.
The fastest one of these with at least 1 STAB, is nape, with thunder punch, aerial ace, brick break/cc, earthquake

I just realised that Levitate isn't taken into account in the calculator. Probably doesn't matter, but still should be taken into consideration.

 

[goodknife]

triple kick + technician + stab hitmontop should OHKO everything that isn't ghost or double resistance
1st hit = 25*1.5*1.5 = 56.25%
2nd hit = 50*1.5*1.5 = 112.5%
3rd hit = 75*1.5*1.5 (technician should still boost due to base power of 3rd hit is 30) = 168.75
total 337.5% (also, can OHKO double resistance with life orb)

 

[Albacore]

triple kick + technician + stab hitmontop should OHKO everything that isn't ghost or double resistance
1st hit = 25*1.5*1.5 = 56.25%
2nd hit = 50*1.5*1.5 = 112.5%
3rd hit = 75*1.5*1.5 (technician should still boost due to base power of 3rd hit is 30) = 168.75
total 337.5% (also, can OHKO double resistance with life orb)

According to the official description and base power, that is indeed what happens. I think we've finally found a move more broken than Rock Blast.

 

[Mulan15262]

According to the official description and base power, that is indeed what happens. I think we've finally found a move more broken than Rock Blast.

You could simply not make the power increase.

 

[Albacore]

You could simply not make the power increase.

Even then, it would be pretty broken. I think that Multi-hit moves should be the first to be nerfed. We can worry about Technician later.

 

[Mulan15262]

No, it was agreed earlier that multi-hit moves would deal 1/12 damage per hit instead of 1/4, and then still affected by type effectiveness.

 

[goodknife]

i think multi-hit move should dealt 7.125% of max hp per hit (which is less than 1/12 and less than 25% if 2 or 3 hits).

also, i'm totally disagree to nerfed all priority, weak (i.e. rapid spin), condition, snowball and trapped move because thats all this game are.

otherwise, just render all increasing power (i.e. all condition and snowball move including increase power-ability) to just 25%.

 

[Mulan15262]

Multi-hit moves should deal 8.3333...% damage per hit, so that they average 25% damage when neutral.

In that case, though, Cincinno is a powerful offensive threat. Skill Link means that Icicle Clash, Rock Blast, and Tail Slap deal about 42% damage when they hit neutrally. Because nothing that resists those moves has recovery, nothing counters it. It can also nail all of those (except Mawile, Metagross, Jirachi, Bronzong, Aegislash, and Klefki) with a super-effective Wake-up Slap.
Shroomish/Breloom could try a Spore/Wake-Up Slap set, putting the foe to sleep, and then OHKOing any super-effective hit on a sleeping target. It could also try a technician set with Bullet Seed to, on average, 3HKO a neutral hit.
If Triple Kick hits all 3 times (72.9% chance), a technician Hitmontop could 2HKO a neutral hit.

 

[Albacore]

Multi-hit moves should deal 8.3333...% damage per hit, so that they average 25% damage when neutral.

If Triple Kick hits all 3 times (72.9% chance), a technician Hitmontop could 2HKO a neutral hit.

Mathematically, that seems pretty much perfect. Should we make this official?
Should I make a poll? How can I make a poll?

Triple Kick doesn't seem like too much of a problem, since it's only availible for 1 Pokemon. Besides, technician will probably be banned.

 

[teamdreamers412]

In that case, though, Cincinno is a powerful offensive threat. Skill Link means that Icicle Clash, Rock Blast, and Tail Slap deal about 42% damage when they hit neutrally.

Cincinno gains Bullet Speed not Icicle Crash, so it actual has four fewer Pokes who resist it. Your point still stands though and is actually better now...

I've already stated I'm all for the 1/12 damage (8.3%) for multi-hit moves. However, a poll would probably be the fairest way. (Though I have no idea on how to create a poll either).

As for Hitmontop let's not forget it needs all three of those attacks to hit to get that KO. It could miss all three or only hit with two so its not necessary overpowered just yet (especially if accuracy lowering tactics are as popular as suggested early on).

A few new topics.
Toxic Boost: Its not listed in your OP about abilities which do nothing so would Zangoose still gain the 50% boost to his damage? I wouldn't think so as the page say it boosts Attack by 50%, but I wanted to clarify.
Facade: Namely for the same reason above. Toxic Boost Zangoose spamming Facade would deal (25% x 1.5 x 1.5 x 2=)112.5% damage with a single neutral hit. Can't OHKO resisted hits, but still powerful. I'm assuming Toxic Boost doesn't work, but Facade will.
Tinted Lens: Basically always dealing neutral damage with attacks would take the prediction out of the game. Its kind of a no-risk approach.

Also for NFEs better than their FE counterparts here's a quick list of things I've found.
Trapinch: Gets Arena Trap (or Sheer Force) and doesn't get a x4 weakness to Ice. (Loses out on STAB Dragon-type, a lot of speed, and wider coverage).
Vigoroth: No Truant.
Murkrow: Gets Prankster and is already faster than Honchkrow.
Dragonair: Shed Skin allows it to absorb statuses (it loses out on 10 Base Spe and Multiscale, but the option is there).
Patrat/Elegym: Analytic users in general. They have lower health and lower speeds meaning they are more likely to nab that Analytic boost. (Patrat can also use Life Orb/Analytic boosted Revenge to hit hard).

 

[Albacore]

I'm assuming Toxic Boost doesn't work, but Facade will.

You are correct in assuming that. This may be crucial, particularly since status will probably be very important.
Adding Facade, as well as Tinted Lens and the NFEs, to the OP.